251 replies to this topic

[station2station]

6'3"
+1/2"
About 1* upright from Mizuno standard after length adjustment...or Titleist standard lie.
1 extra wrap.
Lighten the heads to play D3-D4 at over length. (as opposed to the naturally occurring D5)

I've never seen a set of irons that were 1+ inch over where they didn't play weird and wrong.  I have a buddy that got his 1.25" over length and the headweight killed the shaft flex at that length.  Nothing good ever happens to golf clubs that exceed +1" in a world of golf components designed for roughly standard length.  Shafts get sloppy - heads get heavy and Dynamic Gold S300/X100 start playing like super high-launch - and they weigh a TON.

Besides - hitting a 5 iron that is 1" + over is not an easy task.  It's a 3 iron length.  That's why I stay at .5" over MAX.

Edited by station2station, 05 January 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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[Vegaman]

I'm 6'3 and was fitted to 39 inches 5 iron and 3 degrees up. Short arms. Also play Nippon SP blues in X so the SW got very high and the 3 iron, which I usually hit pretty well, became very long and more difficult to hit. I bought a set of VEga blades and before I had them bent I went out with the shafts at 38.5 for the 5-iron and I'm hitting it really good. So good in fact that I didn't bother bending them, kept them at standard lie.
One thing I find odd is that almost every poster reporting having really long arms and still use and was fitted to use upright clubs..Does everybody that is tall and have long arms have an incredibly upright swing or what? With some wrist to floor numbers I have seen in this post I would half expect a standard lie or even flatter than standard.

[Vegaman]

station2station, on 05 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

6'3"
+1/2"
About 1* upright from Mizuno standard after length adjustment...or Titleist standard lie.
1 extra wrap.
Lighten the heads to play D3-D4 at over length. (as opposed to the naturally occurring D5)

I've never seen a set of irons that were 1+ inch over where they didn't play weird and wrong.  I have a buddy that got his 1.25" over length and the headweight killed the shaft flex at that length.  Nothing good ever happens to golf clubs that exceed +1" in a world of golf components designed for roughly standard length.  Shafts get sloppy - heads get heavy and Dynamic Gold S300/X100 start playing like super high-launch - and they weigh a TON.

Besides - hitting a 5 iron that is 1" + over is not an easy task.  It's a 3 iron length.  That's why I stay at .5" over MAX.

Agree, this is my experience too. I've come to the exact same conclusion. I only go 0.5 over now, even though I was fitted to Nippon SP blues at X and a 39" 5-iron..

[station2station]

Vegaman, on 05 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

One thing I find odd is that almost every poster reporting having really long arms and still use and was fitted to use upright clubs..Does everybody that is tall and have long arms have an incredibly upright swing or what? With some wrist to floor numbers I have seen in this post I would half expect a standard lie or even flatter than standard.

Tall golfers tend to have a steep swing plane regardless if they have longer arms (offsetting any need for lie adjustment).  But you'd think a few would retain standard values.  Good observation.

Edited by station2station, 05 January 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[AmazinBlue]

I'm 6'3" with a 6'5.5" wingspan and 36.5" wrist-to-floor and I was fitted by Titleist for 1" over and 4* up about 10 years ago.  About 5 years ago MIzuno fitting said +.5" and 3* up.  I have had a mitchell irons machine for 12 years and I find that depending on the shaft 3-4* upright works for me, usually 4*.  Apparently I have a tremendous amount of toe drop when I swing so when the club is in a static position it looks way too upright, but hitting a ball they are about perfect at 4* up.

I'm playing aset of Adams CMBs at +.5" and 4* up with DG TI S400.  Thinking of going to +1" with KBS Tour Stiff.  The current SW is about D6.

Edited by AmazinBlue, 15 July 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[lynxster]

Vegaman, on 05 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

station2station, on 05 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

6'3"
+1/2"
About 1* upright from Mizuno standard after length adjustment...or Titleist standard lie.
1 extra wrap.
Lighten the heads to play D3-D4 at over length. (as opposed to the naturally occurring D5)

I've never seen a set of irons that were 1+ inch over where they didn't play weird and wrong.  I have a buddy that got his 1.25" over length and the headweight killed the shaft flex at that length.  Nothing good ever happens to golf clubs that exceed +1" in a world of golf components designed for roughly standard length.  Shafts get sloppy - heads get heavy and Dynamic Gold S300/X100 start playing like super high-launch - and they weigh a TON.

Besides - hitting a 5 iron that is 1" + over is not an easy task.  It's a 3 iron length.  That's why I stay at .5" over MAX.

Agree, this is my experience too. I've come to the exact same conclusion. I only go 0.5 over now, even though I was fitted to Nippon SP blues at X and a 39" 5-iron..

So I'm 6'5" and have done hundreds of fittings for pros, ams and in between, at retail, on tours and at demo days...my specs are plus 1 inch 4.5* upright. You are both right clubs with extra length swing much heavier (swing weight). There are some schools of thought that shafts actually get stiffer with length, I have never understood that, but it has to do with physics and fulcrums etc.

My point is that either ways swing weight is the key!! With todays technology there are materials that will play true even with extra length. Nippons are not speced for longer lengths, but most manufacturers have heads that are lighter to accomodate...if they don't then I suggest several other shaft options that are lighter and will lower both static weight and swing weight, but will retain flex. Shafts such as PXi's, KBS Tour 90's, DGS Superlight even Rifles if you can find them...the best perfoming shaft at EXTRA length is the Aerotech Steelfiber.

[lynxster]

One other thought for taller golfers concerned with swing weight...Bocceri golf has grips with a weight for counter balancing you clubs, Haven't tried these, but in playing a set of Adams CMB irons plus inch with a starting swing weight of D-8, I was considering it.

[station2station]

lynxster, on 05 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

One other thought for taller golfers concerned with swing weight...Bocceri golf has grips with a weight for counter balancing you clubs, Haven't tried these, but in playing a set of Adams CMB irons plus inch with a starting swing weight of D-8, I was considering it.

That doesn't truly change swing weight in the important way.  While your scale will show a a new swing weight with counter balance grips, the heavy heads still impact shaft performance when using overlength irons.  You also are increasing GROSS weight and things get hefty.

Counter balancing really impacts a shafts flex properties.  When you have 2 heavy masses at the ends of a shaft - that shaft flexes more.
----------------

To address Lynxsters comments above, depends on the mfg of the shaft -  Px get stiffer, most DG get softer.  (to a point when everything gets softer when excessively long).  The reason is that DG have a softer butt section and stiffer tip.  PX has a stiffer butt section closer to the grip.

the problem is that no manufacturer makes light enough heads to offset the added shaft length when exceeding .5".  Mizuno has heads called BU which have some weight shaved off for overlength.  But remember it takes a lot of weight removal to offset 1".  Mizuno gives up after an inch of over length.  They are one of the few that make a lightweight head.  TItleist can control a bit of weight on their AP2's but not the MB or CB.  If you order MB/CB's at +.5" get get D5...period.  They don't have different head weights for consumers..

Edited by station2station, 05 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[lynxster]

station2station, on 05 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

lynxster, on 05 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

One other thought for taller golfers concerned with swing weight...Bocceri golf has grips with a weight for counter balancing you clubs, Haven't tried these, but in playing a set of Adams CMB irons plus inch with a starting swing weight of D-8, I was considering it.

That doesn't truly change swing weight in the important way.  While your scale will show a a new swing weight with counter balance grips, the heavy heads still impact shaft performance when using overlength irons.  You also are increasing GROSS weight and things get hefty.

Counter balancing really impacts a shafts flex properties.  When you have 2 heavy masses at the ends of a shaft - that shaft flexes more.
----------------

To address Lynxsters comments above, depends on the mfg of the shaft -  Px get stiffer, most DG get softer.  (to a point when everything gets softer when excessively long).  The reason is that DG have a softer butt section and stiffer tip.  PX has a stiffer butt section closer to the grip.

the problem is that no manufacturer makes light enough heads to offset the added shaft length when exceeding .5".  Mizuno has heads called BU which have some weight shaved off for overlength.  But remember it takes a lot of weight removal to offset 1".  Mizuno gives up after an inch of over length.  They are one of the few that make a lightweight head.  TItleist can control a bit of weight on their AP2's but not the MB or CB.  If you order MB/CB's at +.5" get get D5...period.  They don't have different head weights for consumers..

You are right most OEMS don't offer lighter weight heads unless your name is on your bag, but Ping WRX will get a taller or conversely a shorter golfer MUCH closer to desired swing weight. Most of their irons have a,b, & c version heads, in addition they have control over the backweights and when all else fails they can do some magic with grinds. I have seen and swung I20's plus 1.5 inches, standard grips and zz light shafts at D3. They frequencied out at, I believe 268.

I agree with the backweights, not even sure it helps in my putter. Just throwing it out as a less expensive experiment.

Edited by lynxster, 05 January 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[hoosiervolunteer]

6'4" here and I spec out OTR these days.  10+ years ago, I was +1/2" and 1* up.  Current OTR specs are basically longer and more upright than they used to be, so if anything I have to run a touch flat to match my swing.

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[J LO]

6'4", 38" wrist to floor.  Been at 3/4"-1" over length for some time with std lie-2 degrees upright.   Find that my tempo and control is inconsistent.   Going back to 1/2" over and 1 degree upright from Mizuno std which feels more comfortable.

[station2station]

J LO, on 06 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

6'4", 38" wrist to floor.  Been at 3/4"-1" over length for some time with std lie-2 degrees upright.   Find that my tempo and control is inconsistent.   Going back to 1/2" over and 1 degree upright from Mizuno std which feels more comfortable.

Good call.  Same here.  Stewart Cink is 6'4" and plays standard.  Unsure of his "wrist to ground" numbers.

[Colej]

Seems like Keegan Bradley would be in something close to standard length. He really is bent over the ball.

[mwmgolfx]

station2station, on 05 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

lynxster, on 05 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

One other thought for taller golfers concerned with swing weight...Bocceri golf has grips with a weight for counter balancing you clubs, Haven't tried these, but in playing a set of Adams CMB irons plus inch with a starting swing weight of D-8, I was considering it.

That doesn't truly change swing weight in the important way.  While your scale will show a a new swing weight with counter balance grips, the heavy heads still impact shaft performance when using overlength irons.  You also are increasing GROSS weight and things get hefty.

Counter balancing really impacts a shafts flex properties.  When you have 2 heavy masses at the ends of a shaft - that shaft flexes more.
----------------

To address Lynxsters comments above, depends on the mfg of the shaft -  Px get stiffer, most DG get softer.  (to a point when everything gets softer when excessively long).  The reason is that DG have a softer butt section and stiffer tip.  PX has a stiffer butt section closer to the grip.

the problem is that no manufacturer makes light enough heads to offset the added shaft length when exceeding .5".  Mizuno has heads called BU which have some weight shaved off for overlength.  But remember it takes a lot of weight removal to offset 1".  Mizuno gives up after an inch of over length.  They are one of the few that make a lightweight head.  TItleist can control a bit of weight on their AP2's but not the MB or CB.  If you order MB/CB's at +.5" get get D5...period.  They don't have different head weights for consumers..

I guess I'm the exception here.  I'm 6'2+ with extremely short legs and arms.  Fitted with 2" over - 3.5 degrees flat.  Tested everything from -1 to + 3 on length during fitting and on 2" my hits were all centered.   My swing weight is d6 or d7 (i don't remember which),  I do know everyone comments that I have heavy head feel to my clubs.  85 gram graphite soft-stepped stiff.

And the driver is 48".   I've been using 48 for over 10 years now.  helped with distance and reduce major hooking tendency.  Right now, I'm on a regular shaft with some of my drivers and stiff on others.

[cbrown177]

6'3 .5 longer 2 degrees up

[Vegaman]

Colej, on 06 January 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Seems like Keegan Bradley would be in something close to standard length. He really is bent over the ball.

Actually this is something I have noticed many times watching pro players, they seem to really have a lot of flex in their knees and stand bent over the ball, with the grip really close and way down..Especially with irons. Just thought about it again watching some golf on TV today. Anybody else noticed this? Seems most amateurs are standing very upright in comparison.

[forefrazier]

6'-4" 38.75" WTF +1"' 2*up. Recently fitted by Titleist fitter for AP2's  at +1/2", 2*up but ended up ordering the +1" since they felt too short, especially in the higher lofted clubs. Currently working on fixing an upright swing so might cut them down 1/2" as I progress.

[iFISHforLAUGHS]

6'3"   38" wtf  +.75 2.5*up. Swing weights are definitely higher than standard clubs. Was fitted at .5" longer but then I needed clubs bent around 8* up.. needless to say that wasn't warranted by any manufacturer, very upright swing with sharp angle of attack. Played around with combinations for 3 hours at a fitting to find these results.

[sncgolf03]

6'2" +.5" 2* up

[frichissin]

I'm 6.4 wrist to floor 38 and I have Ping G20s 5-7 iron silver dot one inch over and 8-PW white dot same one inch over.

My 5 iron is 38.75

Most OEM's fit me at an inch over while Mizuno's tells me 1/2 over?

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[wrmiller]

station2station, on 05 January 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Vegaman, on 05 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

One thing I find odd is that almost every poster reporting having really long arms and still use and was fitted to use upright clubs..Does everybody that is tall and have long arms have an incredibly upright swing or what? With some wrist to floor numbers I have seen in this post I would half expect a standard lie or even flatter than standard.

Tall golfers tend to have a steep swing plane regardless if they have longer arms (offsetting any need for lie adjustment).  But you'd think a few would retain standard values.  Good observation.

I personally have a very upright swing. Hence the upright irons.  

[rybo]

6' 4", 38.5" wtf, finger tip to finger tip is 6' 5"

Current 5 iron is  38 3/4" & 61* (there are no standards so impossible to say +1" and 1* upright)


Couple of things to consider:

1. Shoulder width.  If you have wide shoulders you may need slightly longer length clubs.  The reason being is the triangle formed between your shoulders and when your hands come together to grip the club will have shorter sides.  

2. Muscle size.  if you have thicker, larger muscles you may need slightly longer clubs.   (Personally I wear a 48L dress coat)  

3. Upright lie angles and the effect on ball position.  There is one thing upright lie angles do wonderfully well and that is bring the ball position closer to the golfer.  This is simple geometry that can not disputed.  Now this closer ball position starts a chain reaction effect for the tall individual but for this discussion lets focus on the swing plane plane will steepen, therefore the angle of attack gets steeper and almost always results in some type of over the top move.  None of these are what a tall person needs.

4. A general rule I have been using is if a golfer requires a more then 1.5* upright lie angle then the club is too short.  They may even require a longer and flatter club!  Now I have seen plenty of golfers who had clubs that were too short, seen very few who were too long!  Everybody can hit the 5 or 6 iron well.  It's the PW and SW that a length problem will show itself. This always becomes very apparent in the short irons and wedges.

5. Putter Length!  This is where the industry just blows it.  There is no good reason why 35" has become the longest standard putter length.  If you are over 6' 1" and have normal length arms your posture will suffer using a 'standard' length putter.  And having a proper posture is everything to developing a good putting stroke.  There is a reason why the majority of belly putter users on the professional tours are all over 6' 1".  THe belly putter lets them place their hands on the putter with a normal arm hang and bend in the elbow.   It's not the fact that its stuck in the belly for it's wide spread use, its the fact for the first time the putter actually fits them instead of them trying to adapt to the putter!  It's very hard to excessively extend your arms with a belly putter, your hands naturally go to the point of least resistance which is usually 2-4" higher up.  Odyssey this year just started offering all of their putters up to 39".  This is a huge advancement in the putter world!


Keegan Bradley was mentioned earlier, he does bend excessively at the waist.  I have to think this is from years of adaption to mis-sized equipment since no instructor would teach this posture.  Even with that said, his putter is 46 1/2" and his elbows are touching his sides with no excessive arm hang, what do you think the measurement would be for the length from the center of a grounded putter head to the butt end of his top hand?  It has to be close to 38 or 39".

Here are some others:
Ernie Els
Vijay Singh
Webb Simpson
Jamie Lovemark
Angel Cabrera

Edited by rybo, 26 January 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[jbrunone]

6'2" half inch under...yup long arms

[forefrazier]

These are all great and helpful responses. Never thought of actually having my upright clubs cause poor swing habits. Started playing golf with Pings since they seemed to be more taller player fit friendly. Finally getting my OTT move to a better plane but have been told I am a bit too close to the ball with an upright swing. Might just try shorter, flatter clubs while watching my posture to get a bit flatter overall.

[FBDom]

6'4" and I play my irons +1" and wedges +1" and 2* upright

[drbonesvt]

rybo, on 26 January 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

6' 4", 38.5" wtf, finger tip to finger tip is 6' 5"

Current 5 iron is  38 3/4" & 61* (there are no standards so impossible to say +1" and 1* upright)


Couple of things to consider:

1. Shoulder width.  If you have wide shoulders you may need slightly longer length clubs.  The reason being is the triangle formed between your shoulders and when your hands come together to grip the club will have shorter sides.  

2. Muscle size.  if you have thicker, larger muscles you may need slightly longer clubs.   (Personally I wear a 48L dress coat)  

3. Upright lie angles and the effect on ball position.  There is one thing upright lie angles do wonderfully well and that is bring the ball position closer to the golfer.  This is simple geometry that can not disputed.  Now this closer ball position starts a chain reaction effect for the tall individual but for this discussion lets focus on the swing plane plane will steepen, therefore the angle of attack gets steeper and almost always results in some type of over the top move.  None of these are what a tall person needs.

4. A general rule I have been using is if a golfer requires a more then 1.5* upright lie angle then the club is too short.  They may even require a longer and flatter club!  Now I have seen plenty of golfers who had clubs that were too short, seen very few who were too long!  Everybody can hit the 5 or 6 iron well.  It's the PW and SW that a length problem will show itself. This always becomes very apparent in the short irons and wedges.

5. Putter Length!  This is where the industry just blows it.  There is no good reason why 35" has become the longest standard putter length.  If you are over 6' 1" and have normal length arms your posture will suffer using a 'standard' length putter.  And having a proper posture is everything to developing a good putting stroke.  There is a reason why the majority of belly putter users on the professional tours are all over 6' 1".  THe belly putter lets them place their hands on the putter with a normal arm hang and bend in the elbow.   It's not the fact that its stuck in the belly for it's wide spread use, its the fact for the first time the putter actually fits them instead of them trying to adapt to the putter!  It's very hard to excessively extend your arms with a belly putter, your hands naturally go to the point of least resistance which is usually 2-4" higher up.  Odyssey this year just started offering all of their putters up to 39".  This is a huge advancement in the putter world!


Keegan Bradley was mentioned earlier, he does bend excessively at the waist.  I have to think this is from years of adaption to mis-sized equipment since no instructor would teach this posture.  Even with that said, his putter is 46 1/2" and his elbows are touching his sides with no excessive arm hang, what do you think the measurement would be for the length from the center of a grounded putter head to the butt end of his top hand?  It has to be close to 38 or 39".

Here are some others:
Ernie Els
Vijay Singh
Webb Simpson
Jamie Lovemark
Angel Cabrera

Your points 1-4 are spot on, Im a 48 L also, and not built like the 1993 wiry tiger woods.  Interesting to think, since tiger bulked up, though he said his specs haven't changed, if they have really.

Edited by drbonesvt, 26 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[drbonesvt]

forefrazier, on 26 January 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

These are all great and helpful responses. Never thought of actually having my upright clubs cause poor swing habits. Started playing golf with Pings since they seemed to be more taller player fit friendly. Finally getting my OTT move to a better plane but have been told I am a bit too close to the ball with an upright swing. Might just try shorter, flatter clubs while watching my posture to get a bit flatter overall.

Welcome to WRX sir,  I got into the same trap more and more up right add in the extra length, it forced me into more OTT move(WRX helped me learn more about my game and equipment, but damn it cost me money changing equipment), .  Including the woods, new RBZ Stage 2, 59* lie???? Callayway offers 55* on a 3w FYI.

Looking at new clubs - Im a 1/2 degree under new titleist lie angle specs with 1/4" over their lengths.  Titleist is longer standard length than the other OEMS and more upright.  I see a lot of folks on here with Titleist +.5" and 3-4* upright ontop of Titleist longer lengths and higher lie angles.  Nothing wrong with that if it works for the golfer, but seems like a lot.

Check out two sets of specs, MP 14, famously used by Mr Eldrick Woods & Titleist current specs CB712 pretty much the same as the MB's also - CB has slightly more offset.

[drbonesvt]

6'-2" 37" to the floor.

Specs through the bag.  One of the changes I made was the incremental change to .5* change doesn't start till further in the short irons.  Should have corrected, wedges are 65* lie angle

Edited by drbonesvt, 26 January 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[station2station]

jbrunone, on 26 January 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

6'2" half inch under...yup long arms

Monkey Boy!!

j/k

[station2station]

keegan's hands are down by his knees. (dude drives me nuts)

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