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Clark: How to hit it low

dennis clark knock down low shot

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#1 zakkozuchowski

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:16 PM


Posted Image


By Dennis Clark


GolfWRX Contributor


It's almost PGA Tour time again, and as the guys head to Hawaii next week many of them will be working hard to get their games ready for competition. Despite the tropical paradise that the Hawaaian Islands are, their golf courses are always a stiff test of golf thanks to the strong and persistent winds that blow through that beautiful part of the world. If you were to go to the practice range there, I'm sure you'd see the guys working on their "knock down" shots.


In places like Hawaii, Texas and Florida, low shots are a must. With that in mind, it might be a good time to look at the dynamics of hitting the ball low. A lot of amateurs can't hit the low shot, but it's one they should practice. If they do, they'll likely see an improvement in the overall quality of their ball striking.


To understand the concept of hitting it low, let's talk about the things that cause trajectory in the first place. Here are the variables that figure into the equation:
  • Loft
  • Point of contact (on the face)
  • Spin
  • Speed

These are the actual impact factors that create flight. Things like ball position, width of stance, attack angle, etc. are how you affect the impact, but are not causes in and of themselves. Very often, I work with players who want to know what caused a certain flight, and they are always quick to jump right into what the body did. You have to remember the player is influencing the club directly and therefore the ball indirectly. So in creating low shots, what ballistics do we need? Well, it would stand to reason that we need less dynamic loft, less spin, less speed and contact slightly lower on the face of the club than we would on a regular or higher trajectory shot. Make sense? Good. So, how do we do it? Try these tips.

The setup
  • Use one more club. If the shot requires a full 6 iron, use a 5 iron. Then choke down an inch and take your regular grip.
  • Move the ball back and the hands forward (slightly).
  • Aim slightly left to offset the back ball position.
  • Narrow your stance. A wide stance can get the swing center too far behind the ball.
  • Keep the right side higher at set up (very little axis tilt with upper body)
The swing
  • Make a low takeaway with less wrist action than normal. You've gone back far enough when your left arm gets to parallel.
  • Keep your pivot centered over the ball.
  • No flipping on the downswing. Keep the hands ahead of the clubhead at impact.
  • Keep the finish low, no higher than perhaps belt- or rib-cage high coming through.
  • For a driver, tee it lower (to insure lower face contact).
  • Swing slower than normal. Too much speed creates too much spin.
The principals

Here's a simple phrase that helps a lot:  LOW SHOT, LOW SWING.


The more you get the wrists involved, the more likely you are to add loft and get "flippy" into impact. The is a shot that must be driven with a low, boring trajectory.  The only way to do that is to keep the hands in front of the clubhead, which de-lofts the club at impact.


The second the clubhead gets ahead of the hands, or the upper body reverses (backs up), the more you will add loft at impact. Look at it this way -- address the ball as you normally would with a 7 iron. Then move the handle forward until you have the loft of a 6-iron. You can move it even more forward to give you the loft of a 5-iron, and so on.


Caution: Moving the handle forward is not the same as closing the club. You can move the handle as far forward as you like and still keep the club square (leading edge perpedicular to target line). Remember, the golf ball has to be driven low and can't rise too much. It's critical that the club arrives on a lower plane and the hands lead the clubhead.

Here's a drill to help you get a feel for the shot:


Find a bench at the range, maybe 2 feet tall. Put it two yards in front of you, grab a 7 iron and see how it feels to hit the ball UNDER that bench. You will get the idea quickly.

Several times in this article I mentioned the word slightly. Normally I would not advise that. My regular readers and students know that believe in exaggeration. In the case of correcting a slice or hook, you almost can't overdo the prescription. But changing trajectory is a different story.


Ball position is a great example. If you get it too far back, you can get really steep with a high vertical swing plane.  I have seen people put the ball SO far back and de-loft the club so much that they can't even get it a shot off the ground. To fix it, they start hanging back and increase upper body tilt, which completely defeats the purpose!

So a little back, a little lower swing, a little less speed, slightly more club and well, you get the picture.


Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a good one for each and all of you with lots of birdies, fewer bogeys, no "others." Most importantly, let's hope for a lot of smiles :)


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#2 tnord

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    Good job on the anchor, now dial back the ball!

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 07:01 PM

hmmm.....i'm not sure how i feel about this one.  playing in Kansas there's plenty of wind around, so i'm familiar with the condition.

1) the most important thing i've found to playing well in the wind, including hitting low penetrating shots is to strike the ball pure in the middle of the sweet spot. i don't really agree with trying to hit it lower on the clubface.
2) a finish below the belt line is a pitch, you're going to need to club up about 4 times if that's where you want the finish to be. beneath the shoulder line?  yeah i can get on board with that.
3) you really want people to put a bench in front of them and hit shots under the bench?  that seems pretty dangerous....and i used to be a race car driver!
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#3 Dennis Clark

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

View Posttnord, on 31 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

hmmm.....i'm not sure how i feel about this one.  playing in Kansas there's plenty of wind around, so i'm familiar with the condition.

1) the most important thing i've found to playing well in the wind, including hitting low penetrating shots is to strike the ball pure in the middle of the sweet spot. i don't really agree with trying to hit it lower on the clubface.
2) a finish below the belt line is a pitch, you're going to need to club up about 4 times if that's where you want the finish to be. beneath the shoulder line?  yeah i can get on board with that.
3) you really want people to put a bench in front of them and hit shots under the bench?  that seems pretty dangerous....and i used to be a race car driver!

Hitting it lower on face is driver result from a lower tee it gives less loft and less spin.
The picture is the finish of a pro I teach who is quite adept at this shot. About rib cage.

#4 iteachgolf

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

Lower face contact creates more not less spin

#5 practicetee

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:42 PM

Great article Dennis, good stuff as always!

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#6 tnord

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    Good job on the anchor, now dial back the ball!

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

lowering the tee height wouldn't have anything to do with the loft of the club.....angle of attack could though.

i agree with a lot of the techniques in the article....club up, no flipping, play the ball maybe 1/2 to a full ball back of normal, hips/shoulders more level (back hip higher).  but some of it i don't agree with (which i know doesn't necessarily make it right, someone is just going to need to explain it to me).  i would say that shallowing out the swing - more around the body rather than a steep aoa - and keeping the hands farther in front of the clubhead than normal - with contact in the sweet spot - is what creates a good wind shot.

the flatter swing with shallower aoa and shaft lean is what will RESULT in a low finishing position.  i'd be surprised to see anyone be able to take a full swing with a 4 or 5i (frequently used wind shot clubs in my part of the country) and be able to finish at the beltline.
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#7 Dennis Clark

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:32 AM

With face roll the driver is 1 to 1.5 lower lofted on the bottom part of the club.  So the dynamic loft delivery is essentially lower. But as was accurately noted above the bottom of the club does have an increase in spin due to vertical gear effect and my line in the article is misleading in that regard.  However spin loft =  dynamic loft minus AA, so it depends on the individual swing as to how the spin lift is affected. Attack Angle (AA) can also determine point of contact on the face as we know (steep high, shallow low).  So the dynamics of AA and point of contact can vary greatly from swing to swing, and often have an offsetting effect.  A very steep chop for example can hit high which reduces spin but adds dynamic loft.  A flat shallow attack can contact low which increases spin but lowers dynamic.  In either case the suggestions of lower, slower are still effective.  As for the finish on an iron swing, the pro pictured above swings his 6 iron in the 104 MPH region, and finishes about where you see him there.  So above belt yes, rib cage more accurate.  Thx for replies. DC

#8 Dennis Clark

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:34 AM

View Postpracticetee, on 31 December 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Great article Dennis, good stuff as always!

Thx. I hope it helps.

#9 goobers80

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:07 AM

I plays it back and keep weight on left side whole swings. I makes the same as all my other swings and full finish and it comes out low and with spin. Takes one bounce and stops.
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#10 tnord

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    Good job on the anchor, now dial back the ball!

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:49 AM

i didn't know about the change in loft across the face of a driver...thanks.

maybe it works, but intentionally hitting it a groove or two low on the face of your irons seems risky to me.

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#11 JPGolf FL

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:18 AM

I always feel like I am hitting iit on the same groove only with a lot more shaft lean and a shorter lower follow thru to deloft the club. Might be feel vs real though.

#12 Dennis Clark

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

View Postgoobers80, on 01 January 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

I plays it back and keep weight on left side whole swings. I makes the same as all my other swings and full finish and it comes out low and with spin. Takes one bounce and stops.

Great, keep it up...

#13 Dennis Clark

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

View Postthesponge, on 01 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I always feel like I am hitting iit on the same groove only with a lot more shaft lean and a shorter lower follow thru to deloft the club. Might be feel vs real though.

Yes trying to miss the club face is never a good idea.  I was referring to the driver specifically when you tee it lower.

#14 Dennis Clark

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

A few people asked me about the bench idea.  Yes you have to be careful OR a safer (but a little more sophisticated) way would be this:  Get two aim stcks and a few foam noodle tubes.  Put the aim sticks in the ground and connect them with the noodle-the sticks will go right through the foam.  Put it in the ground a few yards in front of you and a few feet high.  Hit away until you feel what it's like to hit it under the uprights!

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

View Postzakkozuchowski, on 30 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Here's a drill to help you get a feel for the shot:

Find a bench at the range, maybe 2 feet tall. Put it two yards in front of you, grab a 7 iron and see how it feels to hit the ball UNDER that bench. You will get the idea quickly.
Several times in this article I mentioned the word slightly. Normally I would not advise that. My regular readers and students know that believe in exaggeration. In the case of correcting a slice or hook, you almost can't overdo the prescription. But changing trajectory is a different story.


I would suggest having a first-aid kit nearby when attempting this drill, and have 9-1-1 loaded on your speed dial.

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#16 juliette91

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

View Postzakkozuchowski, on 30 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:


Posted Image

By Dennis Clark

GolfWRX Contributor

It's almost PGA Tour time again, and as the guys head to Hawaii next week many of them will be working hard to get their games ready for competition. Despite the tropical paradise that the Hawaaian Islands are, their golf courses are always a stiff test of golf thanks to the strong and persistent winds that blow through that beautiful part of the world. If you were to go to the practice range there, I'm sure you'd see the guys working on their "knock down" shots.

In places like Hawaii, Texas and Florida, low shots are a must. With that in mind, it might be a good time to look at the dynamics of hitting the ball low. A lot of amateurs can't hit the low shot, but it's one they should practice. If they do, they'll likely see an improvement in the overall quality of their ball striking.

To understand the concept of hitting it low, let's talk about the things that cause trajectory in the first place. Here are the variables that figure into the equation:
  • Loft
  • Point of contact (on the face)
  • Spin
  • Speed
These are the actual impact factors that create flight. Things like ball position, width of stance, attack angle, etc. are how you affect the impact, but are not causes in and of themselves. Very often, I work with players who want to know what caused a certain flight, and they are always quick to jump right into what the body did. You have to remember the player is influencing the club directly and therefore the ball indirectly. So in creating low shots, what ballistics do we need? Well, it would stand to reason that we need less dynamic loft, less spin, less speed and contact slightly lower on the face of the club than we would on a regular or higher trajectory shot. Make sense? Good. So, how do we do it? Try these tips.
The setup
  • Use one more club. If the shot requires a full 6 iron, use a 5 iron. Then choke down an inch and take your regular grip.
  • Move the ball back and the hands forward (slightly).
  • Aim slightly left to offset the back ball position.
  • Narrow your stance. A wide stance can get the swing center too far behind the ball.
  • Keep the right side higher at set up (very little axis tilt with upper body)
The swing
  • Make a low takeaway with less wrist action than normal. You've gone back far enough when your left arm gets to parallel.
  • Keep your pivot centered over the ball.
  • No flipping on the downswing. Keep the hands ahead of the clubhead at impact.
  • Keep the finish low, no higher than perhaps belt- or rib-cage high coming through.
  • For a driver, tee it lower (to insure lower face contact).
  • Swing slower than normal. Too much speed creates too much spin.
The principals

Here's a simple phrase that helps a lot:  LOW SHOT, LOW SWING.

The more you get the wrists involved, the more likely you are to add loft and get "flippy" into impact. The is a shot that must be driven with a low, boring trajectory.  The only way to do that is to keep the hands in front of the clubhead, which de-lofts the club at impact.

The second the clubhead gets ahead of the hands, or the upper body reverses (backs up), the more you will add loft at impact. Look at it this way -- address the ball as you normally would with a 7 iron. Then move the handle forward until you have the loft of a 6-iron. You can move it even more forward to give you the loft of a 5-iron, and so on.

Caution: Moving the handle forward is not the same as closing the club. You can move the handle as far forward as you like and still keep the club square (leading edge perpedicular to target line). Remember, the golf ball has to be driven low and can't rise too much. It's critical that the club arrives on a lower plane and the hands lead the clubhead.
Here's a drill to help you get a feel for the shot:

Find a bench at the range, maybe 2 feet tall. Put it two yards in front of you, grab a 7 iron and see how it feels to hit the ball UNDER that bench. You will get the idea quickly.
Several times in this article I mentioned the word slightly. Normally I would not advise that. My regular readers and students know that believe in exaggeration. In the case of correcting a slice or hook, you almost can't overdo the prescription. But changing trajectory is a different story.

Ball position is a great example. If you get it too far back, you can get really steep with a high vertical swing plane.  I have seen people put the ball SO far back and de-loft the club so much that they can't even get it a shot off the ground. To fix it, they start hanging back and increase upper body tilt, which completely defeats the purpose!
So a little back, a little lower swing, a little less speed, slightly more club and well, you get the picture.

Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a good one for each and all of you with lots of birdies, fewer bogeys, no "others." Most importantly, let's hope for a lot of smiles :)


Dennis,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I question the idea of moving the ball back a bit, putting hands forward a bit------not because they don't promote a lower ball flight, they do---but
because in your analysis you don't compensate for this address position that causes the ball to hook.  Instead you say to aim a bit more to the left to compensate for this.  How does
aming to the left a bit more accomplish this?  I think you could offer this advice which I've come to after much trial and error: slightly weaken your grip to compensate for the hook tendencies
that follow moving the ball back in your stance and pushing your hands toward the target a bit.

Tks.  I also agree that just taking one more club if you're only taking the hands back to parallel might not be enough to offset the distance lost relative to a full swing.

#17 Dennis Clark

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

View Postjuliette91, on 02 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Postzakkozuchowski, on 30 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Posted Image

By Dennis Clark

GolfWRX Contributor

It's almost PGA Tour time again, and as the guys head to Hawaii next week many of them will be working hard to get their games ready for competition. Despite the tropical paradise that the Hawaaian Islands are, their golf courses are always a stiff test of golf thanks to the strong and persistent winds that blow through that beautiful part of the world. If you were to go to the practice range there, I'm sure you'd see the guys working on their "knock down" shots.

In places like Hawaii, Texas and Florida, low shots are a must. With that in mind, it might be a good time to look at the dynamics of hitting the ball low. A lot of amateurs can't hit the low shot, but it's one they should practice. If they do, they'll likely see an improvement in the overall quality of their ball striking.

To understand the concept of hitting it low, let's talk about the things that cause trajectory in the first place. Here are the variables that figure into the equation:
  • Loft
  • Point of contact (on the face)
  • Spin
  • Speed
These are the actual impact factors that create flight. Things like ball position, width of stance, attack angle, etc. are how you affect the impact, but are not causes in and of themselves. Very often, I work with players who want to know what caused a certain flight, and they are always quick to jump right into what the body did. You have to remember the player is influencing the club directly and therefore the ball indirectly. So in creating low shots, what ballistics do we need? Well, it would stand to reason that we need less dynamic loft, less spin, less speed and contact slightly lower on the face of the club than we would on a regular or higher trajectory shot. Make sense? Good. So, how do we do it? Try these tips.
The setup
  • Use one more club. If the shot requires a full 6 iron, use a 5 iron. Then choke down an inch and take your regular grip.
  • Move the ball back and the hands forward (slightly).
  • Aim slightly left to offset the back ball position.
  • Narrow your stance. A wide stance can get the swing center too far behind the ball.
  • Keep the right side higher at set up (very little axis tilt with upper body)
The swing
  • Make a low takeaway with less wrist action than normal. You've gone back far enough when your left arm gets to parallel.
  • Keep your pivot centered over the ball.
  • No flipping on the downswing. Keep the hands ahead of the clubhead at impact.
  • Keep the finish low, no higher than perhaps belt- or rib-cage high coming through.
  • For a driver, tee it lower (to insure lower face contact).
  • Swing slower than normal. Too much speed creates too much spin.
The principals

Here's a simple phrase that helps a lot:  LOW SHOT, LOW SWING.

The more you get the wrists involved, the more likely you are to add loft and get "flippy" into impact. The is a shot that must be driven with a low, boring trajectory.  The only way to do that is to keep the hands in front of the clubhead, which de-lofts the club at impact.

The second the clubhead gets ahead of the hands, or the upper body reverses (backs up), the more you will add loft at impact. Look at it this way -- address the ball as you normally would with a 7 iron. Then move the handle forward until you have the loft of a 6-iron. You can move it even more forward to give you the loft of a 5-iron, and so on.

Caution: Moving the handle forward is not the same as closing the club. You can move the handle as far forward as you like and still keep the club square (leading edge perpedicular to target line). Remember, the golf ball has to be driven low and can't rise too much. It's critical that the club arrives on a lower plane and the hands lead the clubhead.
Here's a drill to help you get a feel for the shot:

Find a bench at the range, maybe 2 feet tall. Put it two yards in front of you, grab a 7 iron and see how it feels to hit the ball UNDER that bench. You will get the idea quickly.
Several times in this article I mentioned the word slightly. Normally I would not advise that. My regular readers and students know that believe in exaggeration. In the case of correcting a slice or hook, you almost can't overdo the prescription. But changing trajectory is a different story.

Ball position is a great example. If you get it too far back, you can get really steep with a high vertical swing plane.  I have seen people put the ball SO far back and de-loft the club so much that they can't even get it a shot off the ground. To fix it, they start hanging back and increase upper body tilt, which completely defeats the purpose!
So a little back, a little lower swing, a little less speed, slightly more club and well, you get the picture.

Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a good one for each and all of you with lots of birdies, fewer bogeys, no "others." Most importantly, let's hope for a lot of smiles :)


Dennis,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I question the idea of moving the ball back a bit, putting hands forward a bit------not because they don't promote a lower ball flight, they do---but
because in your analysis you don't compensate for this address position that causes the ball to hook.  Instead you say to aim a bit more to the left to compensate for this.  How does
aming to the left a bit more accomplish this?  I think you could offer this advice which I've come to after much trial and error: slightly weaken your grip to compensate for the hook tendencies
that follow moving the ball back in your stance and pushing your hands toward the target a bit.

Tks.  I also agree that just taking one more club if you're only taking the hands back to parallel might not be enough to offset the distance lost relative to a full swing.

Well if weakening your grip works, I would continue to do it.  However...Technically when the ball is back in your stance it has a tendency to hook.  Why?  Because the path relative to the face is more inside out-because you meet it earlier in your arc.  Now if I simply weaken my grip, all I should get from that is a low push...the only way to get the golf ball to not hook is by changing the path relative to the face. And the only way to do that is by aiming and swinging more left to match the face.  In other words, I have to swing on a path that will offset the closed face.  That is D Plane 101...where it gets tricky is: it would be easy if we could move the ball up, I mean that's what we do to fade it anyway.  But thats defeats our purpose in hitting it low!  Thx for the comment, DC

Edited by Woodlands2, 02 January 2013 - 08:14 PM.


#18 juliette91

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

View PostWoodlands2, on 02 January 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

View Postjuliette91, on 02 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

View Postzakkozuchowski, on 30 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

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By Dennis Clark

GolfWRX Contributor

It's almost PGA Tour time again, and as the guys head to Hawaii next week many of them will be working hard to get their games ready for competition. Despite the tropical paradise that the Hawaaian Islands are, their golf courses are always a stiff test of golf thanks to the strong and persistent winds that blow through that beautiful part of the world. If you were to go to the practice range there, I'm sure you'd see the guys working on their "knock down" shots.

In places like Hawaii, Texas and Florida, low shots are a must. With that in mind, it might be a good time to look at the dynamics of hitting the ball low. A lot of amateurs can't hit the low shot, but it's one they should practice. If they do, they'll likely see an improvement in the overall quality of their ball striking.

To understand the concept of hitting it low, let's talk about the things that cause trajectory in the first place. Here are the variables that figure into the equation:
  • Loft
  • Point of contact (on the face)
  • Spin
  • Speed
These are the actual impact factors that create flight. Things like ball position, width of stance, attack angle, etc. are how you affect the impact, but are not causes in and of themselves. Very often, I work with players who want to know what caused a certain flight, and they are always quick to jump right into what the body did. You have to remember the player is influencing the club directly and therefore the ball indirectly. So in creating low shots, what ballistics do we need? Well, it would stand to reason that we need less dynamic loft, less spin, less speed and contact slightly lower on the face of the club than we would on a regular or higher trajectory shot. Make sense? Good. So, how do we do it? Try these tips.
The setup
  • Use one more club. If the shot requires a full 6 iron, use a 5 iron. Then choke down an inch and take your regular grip.
  • Move the ball back and the hands forward (slightly).
  • Aim slightly left to offset the back ball position.
  • Narrow your stance. A wide stance can get the swing center too far behind the ball.
  • Keep the right side higher at set up (very little axis tilt with upper body)
The swing
  • Make a low takeaway with less wrist action than normal. You've gone back far enough when your left arm gets to parallel.
  • Keep your pivot centered over the ball.
  • No flipping on the downswing. Keep the hands ahead of the clubhead at impact.
  • Keep the finish low, no higher than perhaps belt- or rib-cage high coming through.
  • For a driver, tee it lower (to insure lower face contact).
  • Swing slower than normal. Too much speed creates too much spin.
The principals

Here's a simple phrase that helps a lot:  LOW SHOT, LOW SWING.

The more you get the wrists involved, the more likely you are to add loft and get "flippy" into impact. The is a shot that must be driven with a low, boring trajectory.  The only way to do that is to keep the hands in front of the clubhead, which de-lofts the club at impact.

The second the clubhead gets ahead of the hands, or the upper body reverses (backs up), the more you will add loft at impact. Look at it this way -- address the ball as you normally would with a 7 iron. Then move the handle forward until you have the loft of a 6-iron. You can move it even more forward to give you the loft of a 5-iron, and so on.

Caution: Moving the handle forward is not the same as closing the club. You can move the handle as far forward as you like and still keep the club square (leading edge perpedicular to target line). Remember, the golf ball has to be driven low and can't rise too much. It's critical that the club arrives on a lower plane and the hands lead the clubhead.
Here's a drill to help you get a feel for the shot:

Find a bench at the range, maybe 2 feet tall. Put it two yards in front of you, grab a 7 iron and see how it feels to hit the ball UNDER that bench. You will get the idea quickly.
Several times in this article I mentioned the word slightly. Normally I would not advise that. My regular readers and students know that believe in exaggeration. In the case of correcting a slice or hook, you almost can't overdo the prescription. But changing trajectory is a different story.

Ball position is a great example. If you get it too far back, you can get really steep with a high vertical swing plane.  I have seen people put the ball SO far back and de-loft the club so much that they can't even get it a shot off the ground. To fix it, they start hanging back and increase upper body tilt, which completely defeats the purpose!
So a little back, a little lower swing, a little less speed, slightly more club and well, you get the picture.

Happy New Year everyone! I hope it's a good one for each and all of you with lots of birdies, fewer bogeys, no "others." Most importantly, let's hope for a lot of smiles :)


Dennis,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I question the idea of moving the ball back a bit, putting hands forward a bit------not because they don't promote a lower ball flight, they do---but
because in your analysis you don't compensate for this address position that causes the ball to hook.  Instead you say to aim a bit more to the left to compensate for this.  How does
aming to the left a bit more accomplish this?  I think you could offer this advice which I've come to after much trial and error: slightly weaken your grip to compensate for the hook tendencies
that follow moving the ball back in your stance and pushing your hands toward the target a bit.

Tks.  I also agree that just taking one more club if you're only taking the hands back to parallel might not be enough to offset the distance lost relative to a full swing.

Well if weakening your grip works, I would continue to do it.  However...Technically when the ball is back in your stance it has a tendency to hook.  Why?  Because the path relative to the face is more inside out-because you meet it earlier in your arc.  Now if I simply weaken my grip, all I should get from that is a low push...the only way to get the golf ball to not hook is by changing the path relative to the face. And the only way to do that is by aiming and swinging more left to match the face.  In other words, I have to swing on a path that will offset the closed face.  That is D Plane 101...where it gets tricky is: it would be easy if we could move the ball up, I mean that's what we do to fade it anyway.  But thats defeats our purpose in hitting it low!  Thx for the comment, DC

Of course, you're so right.  Thanks for that explanation Dennis.  So I have two more questions along those lines.  It's one thing to say change your path to offset the hook tendencies and quite another to figure out just
how to set up to swing along this new path.  For example--using the clock face as our directional guide--let's say the target is at 12 and the golfer is at 6 o'clock.  A straight shot would go directly "north" from 6 to 12.
I know how to swing on a decent enough path that I can most of the time hit it straight toward 12:00, but if I have to hit it low and move my ball back in my stance and swing a bit left how do I do this:

A.  I could just feel the outside to in swing path.  For me that often produces a pronounced outside in swing when here I just want a wee bit.
B.  I could line up my shoulders and hips along the new "left" line and swing as though it were now a straight shot (I'd usually line my shoulders and hips toward my target path for a normal trajectory shot).
C.  Fill in the blank here Dennis, how do we make this kind of move more repeatable?

2.  I totally agree about the swing path and playing it back makes the ball draw/hook while placing it forward of normal makes it fade/slice.  What I don't get is this: when the ball is forward of normal---
except for a driver where the ball is teed up---one cannot make solid contact as the club is past normal and now strikes the ball on the rise.  If the swing bottom is just forward of the ball for most irons
and some hybrids, moving the ball forward and closer to the swing bottom (or past it, usually) causes a thin hit.  At least for me.

What am I doing wrong in trying to hit a repeatable fade?

Tks!




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