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How can Tiger use a 15 deg 3 wood?


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#1 Yellow Jacket

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 01:17 PM

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

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#2 Gallery_hiettspop_*

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 01:32 PM

I may be way off base here, I imagine his shaft keeps his ball down where he likes it. Something tells me the one you got off e-bay is nowhere near the spec/flex/etc. of his club...I had a 4 wood 16.5* that tended to balloon the ball and I put a stiff, low torque, cut-down driver pull shaft in it and now "That dog will hunt"...Longer, lower, easy to control...

#3 Siteseer2

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:11 PM

just recognize that for us mortals, the extra distance in a 13 degree is worth the loss of trajectory... for someone like Tiger who carries his 3 wood 280 or so, he'd rather hit moon balls  to the rock hard greens than pick up an extra 15... the 93 Diamana even in x is not that stout in a 3-wood... I have a 83 x in a T-60 and it plays firm but not like a tele pole

#4 cecil510

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:36 PM

I don't know that Tiger does this because he can work the ball both ways with ease. ...But since any wood over 12.5 degrees is not governed by COR limit, some club makers will make very hot 3 woods that start at a 15 but are toe'd in to set up for a draw. The effective loft of a 15 degree may be 13.  

The player now has 2 drivers one he hits with a high fade that lands soft and does not tumble, and a 3 wood that draws and tumbles almost as far.

A couple of years ago the "tumble effect" was a big deal in the tour vans, you don't hear it to much any more.

#5 tickyboy

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 04:21 PM

I imagine Tiger's 15* is pretty much spot on... he hits the ball so high but still carries it a long way, plus the shaft is a lower spin shaft and it is graphite, which will add yardage...

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#6 tanj

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 05:05 PM

Siteseer2, on Sep 30 2005, 05:11 AM, said:

just recognize that for us mortals, the extra distance in a 13 degree is worth the loss of trajectory... for someone like Tiger who carries his 3 wood 280 or so, he'd rather hit moon balls  to the rock hard greens than pick up an extra 15... the 93 Diamana even in x is not that stout in a 3-wood... I have a 83 x in a T-60 and it plays firm but not like a tele pole

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Please take no offence. This is not directed at the U.S. but I've played on a couple of good courses down there and when I hit the green, they stop dead. Comparethat to down here in Melbourne when you hit the green, the ball takes me at least three hops before it stops. The green in the U.S. are generally not rock hard caompared to other places. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

#7 golfhawaii

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 06:07 PM

tanj, on Sep 29 2005, 06:05 PM, said:

Siteseer2, on Sep 30 2005, 05:11 AM, said:

just recognize that for us mortals, the extra distance in a 13 degree is worth the loss of trajectory... for someone like Tiger who carries his 3 wood 280 or so, he'd rather hit moon balls to the rock hard greens than pick up an extra 15... the 93 Diamana even in x is not that stout in a 3-wood... I have a 83 x in a T-60 and it plays firm but not like a tele pole

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Please take no offence. This is not directed at the U.S. but I've played on a couple of good courses down there and when I hit the green, they stop dead. Comparethat to down here in Melbourne when you hit the green, the ball takes me at least three hops before it stops. The green in the U.S. are generally not rock hard caompared to other places. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Where in Australia are you?  From what I know there are parts of your country that the weather can get hotter than heck, more so than parts of the US.  During the summer, places like Texas and Florida get rock hard where it's tougher to stop the ball on the green with wedges, let alone 3w's.  With the firm greens here in Orlando this summer, the wedges skid and take a bounce then check.  As far as saying the greens in Australia are harder than the one's here in the US's that is kind of off base.  Look at the US Open and you can see some pretty firm green.

#8 trudat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 06:12 PM

Interesting. I didnt know there were no COR limits for 3 woods...

What are the normal COR rates or numbers for typical OEM three woods? If you know....

#9 TheLastDon

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 08:24 PM

iqonoqlast, on Sep 29 2005, 02:17 PM, said:

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

View Post


Tiger plays traditional lofts in all his clubs, including his 3 wood. A 13* 3 wood is actually the old loft of a 2 wood........they've simply labeled it a 3 wood because no one would buy a 2 wood.

Tiger's 3 wood sits dead square I imagine, god knows it doesn't sit closed with him fighting hooks for the past couple years. The main reason he plays a "high lofted" 3 wood is because he doesn't want roll. He uses it for postition off the tee, and doesnt' want it to be running away into the rough.  

While I understand the previous poster who said it was to hold greens, it's not an issue for him. When was the last time (with exception of the 680yd. 17th at the PGA) did you see Tiger hit a 3 wood into a green.

#10 dlefty

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:21 PM

iqonoqlast, on Sep 29 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

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Not criticizing you in the least, please don't take it in that manner, but 99.9% of the people I know who think they hit it just right, or too high, don't come close to hitting it high enough.
Just a thought.............

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#11 Yellow Jacket

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 09:38 PM

dlefty, on Sep 29 2005, 10:21 PM, said:

iqonoqlast, on Sep 29 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

View Post


Not criticizing you in the least, please don't take it in that manner, but 99.9% of the people I know who think they hit it just right, or too high, don't come close to hitting it high enough.
Just a thought.............

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Well, I got it for $100 shipped off ebay which isn't a bad deal at all.  I'm playing 18 holes tomorrow and an 18 hole tournament Saturday so I guess I can try it out on the course vs the driving range.

I don't think changing the shaft will lower the trajectory since it has a Dynamic Gold.  However, it's only an S300 and I'm thinking of throwing in an X100 since my swing speed with a 3 wood is about 103mph.   My only concern is that there are no X-flex fairway graphite shafts...unless I should just cut down a driver graphite shaft...
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#12 Gallery_Rocky1_*

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:13 PM

A lot of good thoughts here.... I totally agree with dlefty.  Most people don't hit their clubs high enough.

And it is true that after a certain degree, the USGA does not regulate COR limits.  One of the guys at Nakashima told me that.  Their 15* driver is a 442cc club that does NOT have to conform to the USGA standards.

#13 tpariff

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:14 PM

cecil510, on Sep 29 2005, 02:36 PM, said:

I don't know that Tiger does this because he can work the ball both ways with ease. ...But since any wood over 12.5 degrees is not governed by COR limit, some club makers will make very hot 3 woods that start at a 15 but are toe'd in to set up for a draw. The effective loft of a 15 degree may be 13. 

The player now has 2 drivers one he hits with a high fade that lands soft and does not tumble, and a 3 wood that draws and tumbles almost as far.

A couple of years ago the "tumble effect" was a big deal in the tour vans, you don't hear it to much any more.

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I'm not sure "toeing" a wood will result in decreased loft.  In fact, I believe it is just the opposite.  For example, Vijay plays a 9.5 degree driver that is a few degrees open, thus reducing the effective loft.

I'm pretty sure most tour players would play square to open faced woods.  That's why many of us on this board want to buy tour issue woods...because they set up more square than a retail model.

My 2 cents.

#14 Gallery_TM82_*

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:19 AM

The other thing too is you rarely see Tiger pull out the 3 wood to hit off the deck.  This past year I think I've seen him do it 2 times, once (did it two days) at the PGA trying to reach the 17th in 2 and once at the International when he hooked his drive over to the adjacent fairway.  I'm sure he's used it more then that, but even on long shots I see him hit more a 2 iron stinger or just a 3 or 4 iron then a 3 wood off the deck.

Whereas we mortals hit 3 woods when we're 200+ yards out, Tiger can simply hit a longer iron.  Most holes seem to be driver/3 wood then wedge for him anyway.

#15 ignitewvu

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:04 AM

Question to the Poster???

Have you ever Hit a T-60 15 Deg.

They are incredibly Long and they DO NOT tend to hit the ball that high, even off the tee.  Ive only been golfing for a year and I can take MY t-60 Upwards of 240 Yards of Carry off the Tee, Not to mention I have carried on upwards of 220 off the turf.  

The club is insane long.  So why would you sacrafice pinpoint accuracy for another "Mabye" 10 yards???

The t-60 is the Real Deal, I cant believe they would make a SQ wood, Nike will be selling T-60's for years they are THAT DAMN GOOD.

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#16 Croonie15

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:12 AM

Tiger is a traditionalist.  His lofts are weak to present standards, and a three wood was always 15 degrees.  When you can rope drivers 370 and a fly a three wood 300 of the deck you don't need a 13 degree three wood.  For the record Tiger's got the 103x in his three wood.  
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#17 Yellow Jacket

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:30 AM

ignitewvu, on Sep 30 2005, 11:04 AM, said:

Question to the Poster???

Have you ever Hit a T-60 15 Deg.

They are incredibly Long and they DO NOT tend to hit the ball that high, even off the tee.  Ive only been golfing for a year and I can take MY t-60 Upwards of 240 Yards of Carry off the Tee, Not to mention I have carried on upwards of 220 off the turf. 

The club is insane long.  So why would you sacrafice pinpoint accuracy for another "Mabye" 10 yards???

The t-60 is the Real Deal, I cant believe they would make a SQ wood, Nike will be selling T-60's for years they are THAT DAMN GOOD.

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I have not hit a T-60.  Of the newer generation fairway woods, I've only hit the Launcher and 904F on the range.  The only one I've hit on the course will be the 904F this afternoon.

I was considering the T-60 when looking at 3 woods over the last 2 weeks but I don't like how they look at address (I'm used to the Titleist PT).

I don't imagine the 904F would go much higher than the T-60, especially given the lack of too much weight redistribution compared to that tungsten plug.  I might just be seeing a higher trajectory becauase the shaft in my 904F is too weak.

Croonie15, on Sep 30 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Tiger is a traditionalist.  His lofts are weak to present standards, and a three wood was always 15 degrees.  When you can rope drivers 370 and a fly a three wood 300 of the deck you don't need a 13 degree three wood.  For the record Tiger's got the 103x in his three wood. 
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I always thought his PT/970 was a 13*
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#18 BridgestoneKevin

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 11:15 AM

i use that 15* and i like the fact that i get it up high, because if i hit a green it sticks for terying long par 5s.  I can punch it to on those windy days or if i need a knock down shot.

#19 Croonie15

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 11:50 AM

iqonoqlast, on Sep 30 2005, 11:00 AM, said:

Croonie15, on Sep 30 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Tiger is a traditionalist.  His lofts are weak to present standards, and a three wood was always 15 degrees.  When you can rope drivers 370 and a fly a three wood 300 of the deck you don't need a 13 degree three wood.  For the record Tiger's got the 103x in his three wood. 

Croonie

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I always thought his PT/970 was a 13*

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Nope, it was a 15
t.com/equipment/mybag/index.ssf?/equipment/mybag/gd200301tigerbag.html

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sorry, mis copied the address

http://golfdigest.co...01tigerbag.html

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#20 goodvibes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 09:12 AM

If it were a closed 15 it would actually play higher lofted when struck with a square face so it certainly won't be that. Loft should be measured after the face angle is set. It could be open a couple of degrees and play stronger than spec. You'll see this in lots of pros clubs. You wonder why they're hitting these high lofted woods but they play stronger when squared up because of the open faces.


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#21 nearfall152

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 10:20 AM

I have a 13* three wood which is about the best three wood from the tee that I've ever hit.  It's not that great from the fairway though - I carry a 4 wood to help with that.  

That said, if I had to make the choice again, I'd just get a 15*.  It's much more versitile.

#22 Gallery_FSUBomber_*

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 05:09 PM

How can tiger play a 15* and still, in his words, "not hit it high enough" ?  All you have to look at is his wrist at impact.  It is bowed something serious which in turn decreases the loft, it is a by-product of having a inside-in swing and needed to square the clubface.  That's why he can hit his tradionally lofted irons so far at will.

#23 stickman

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:02 PM

iqonoqlast, on Sep 29 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

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The lofts on the 904's play a little higher than they say.  That could be one of the reasons your hitting it too high.

#24 prozac

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 09:16 AM

"I was considering the T-60 when looking at 3 woods over the last 2 weeks but I don't like how they look at address (I'm used to the Titleist PT)."


this should look good to you then... its a 13* ignite t-60. what you think??

#25 prozac

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 09:18 AM

ignite_001.jpg ignite_002.jpg "I was considering the T-60 when looking at 3 woods over the last 2 weeks but I don't like how they look at address (I'm used to the Titleist PT)."


this should look good to you then... its a 13* ignite t-60. what you think??


#26 Gooze

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 07:29 PM

tpariff, on Sep 30 2005, 04:14 AM, said:

cecil510, on Sep 29 2005, 02:36 PM, said:

I don't know that Tiger does this because he can work the ball both ways with ease. ...But since any wood over 12.5 degrees is not governed by COR limit, some club makers will make very hot 3 woods that start at a 15 but are toe'd in to set up for a draw. The effective loft of a 15 degree may be 13. 

The player now has 2 drivers one he hits with a high fade that lands soft and does not tumble, and a 3 wood that draws and tumbles almost as far.

A couple of years ago the "tumble effect" was a big deal in the tour vans, you don't hear it to much any more.

View Post


I'm not sure "toeing" a wood will result in decreased loft.  In fact, I believe it is just the opposite.  For example, Vijay plays a 9.5 degree driver that is a few degrees open, thus reducing the effective loft.

I'm pretty sure most tour players would play square to open faced woods.  That's why many of us on this board want to buy tour issue woods...because they set up more square than a retail model.

My 2 cents.

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Well all the tech talk here can be confusing ( no offense!!). The slice is the shortest shot in golf and that is because it is the one shot with the highest RPM Rate ( Backspin) This Backspin produces a physical effect, tiny turbulences in the dimples, that can be compared to the effect of a parachute.  to slice the ball the clubface has to be OPEN. Open clubfaces increase the effective loft.

The reason why some retail Clubs on the market are toed in is that the Average Joe Golfer fights a slice ergo an open clubface - toed in clubface / same swing -> clubface not so open any more.

Pros play square or open clubs because they can work it either way or even want to promote that Fade or Powerfade for more control ( again more spin more control )

If you still believe that a toed in golfclub has more effective loft, go to the next range take your seven iron open the face slightly and try to hit a really really low slice then close the clubface or toe it in and hit a very very high hook......................... :idhitit:

#27 Gooze

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 07:33 PM

iqonoqlast, on Sep 29 2005, 07:17 PM, said:

I understand the move to higher-lofted, lower spin drivers, but I was surprised to see him carry a 15* T-60.  I play an original 13* PT so my perspective is a bit dated.

The other day, I picked up a 15* 904F off ebay and frankly, I regret it.  The 15* goes very high, too high.  Now I have to sell it back on ebay and try to get a 13* without taking too much of a loss.

So, how the heck does Tiger use a 15*?

View Post



Tiger uses the weakest loft on tour as far as I know. His irons are 2 weaker than standard and he still hits it past anyone else.

This man doesn't really need 13
Pity the AmEx was handed to him, I would have preferred to see him win actively!

#28 golfer_junior

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 08:35 PM

Does it really matter?  He could be playing a 20 as his only fairway club and still beat anyone.  He hits a 15 better than a 13 might be mental might be technical, all we can say is that he prefers a 15.

#29 Yellow Jacket

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 10:07 PM

golfer_junior, on Oct 13 2005, 09:35 PM, said:

He hits a 15 better than a 13 might be mental might be technical, all we can say is that he prefers a 15.

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Then it's a shame I grew up thinking 13* was a more natural loft.  I suppose the shaft can produce an effective 14* loft, but a 15* clubhead just looks TOO lofted...though that does make it feel quite comfortable to get in the air.
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#30 Gallery_CBWrxer_*

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 09:54 AM

I think Tiger has said himself that a 15-degree works better for him, because he is starting to use the 3 wood differently on the course.

3-wood used to be his extra driver.  He'd hit it mostly off the tee, on shorter holes and wherever he really needed to keep it straight.

Now, he says, he wants more height, wants to be able to land 3-wood shots more softly, uses 3-wood off the tee less (I guess that part is all about just recklessly bombing dirver 340 yards wherever he goes) and wants a better "off the deck" fairway wood.

I agree that a 15 degree 3 wood is not desirable for somebody like Tiger off the tee, but I think that he is just playing in a different way now, using 3 wood in a different way.  Again, I am not making this up; I recall him saying pretty much all of this in that Nike-sponsored interview with Kelly Tilghmann...


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