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Can Hogan's Swing be Duplicated?

Ben Hogan MySwingEvolution

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#1 christogarcia

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

In 2010 I was a 14 handicap and couldn't break 80.  I've been working on imitating Hogan's swing and took a lot of heat in my earlier stages.  I still do now, but I feel I'm getting close.  Question:  Can you duplicate another person's swing?



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#2 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 05:56 PM

View Postchristogarcia, on 24 December 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

In 2010 I was a 14 handicap and couldn't break 80.  I've been working on imitating Hogan's swing and took a lot of heat in my earlier stages.  I still do now, but I feel I'm getting close.  Question:  Can you duplicate another person's swing?



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#3 jtotto83

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

You have a pretty good looking motion. I'm not here to critique your action, but keep in mind that when Hogan was most effective he was battling severe circulation issues in his leg that he admitted effected his motion. Some say it actually help him. Point is, unless you're battling circulatory issues in your legs amongst other issues, your efforts might be futile at best. Some good info in 5 lesson though, especially if you battle a hook...

#4 HappyGolf

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

Do you know for sure that the swing you're copying there wasn't a 40yrd hook off the bottom groove and just after the camera cut away he chucked the club into the trees? :pimp:

Edited by HappyGolf, 24 December 2012 - 08:53 PM.


#5 MadGolfer76

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

Hogan's swing was an outgrowth of his personality and sum total of his involvement in golf to that point.

Many musicians can be overheard saying: "Emulation, Assimilation, Innovation." The last one is the one you should aim for, though so many fall short. There is nothing wrong with trying to copy others...for a time. The thing is that you have to move beyond simply being a fan and offer something substantive that blends your influences but doesn't supplant your own golfing personality.

Edited by MadGolfer76, 24 December 2012 - 08:57 PM.

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#6 russc

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

View Postjtotto83, on 24 December 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

You have a pretty good looking motion. I'm not here to critique your action, but keep in mind that when Hogan was most effective he was battling severe circulation issues in his leg that he admitted effected his motion. Some say it actually help him. Point is, unless you're battling circulatory issues in your legs amongst other issues, your efforts might be futile at best. Some good info in 5 lesson though, especially if you battle a hook...
After the accident Hogan  referred to himself as a cripple.He said that his swing was the best prior to the accident

#7 chiva

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:34 AM

Your swing looks very similar to Hogan's. I've seen your you tube channel. Nice action. You look as much like Hogan as anyone I've seen. What kind of scores does it produce?
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#8 dairic

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:38 AM

What's your ball flight like?

#9 Donny G

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:30 AM

Wow that is very well duplicated , i agree the best i have seen .

The flow and athletic kinetic sequence is obviously not in the same class but in terms of positions it is spot on .

It just shows how trying to copy the best athletes of all time is almost impossible , you can can get the same motion and positions but it will still miss the X factor that made them who they were .

#10 shanksalot

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:08 AM

Hope you guys enjoy this footage from Slicefixer

http://m.youtube.com...p&v=Oc2OqE3oLsE


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#11 Texsport

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 06:18 AM

You have a slightly different weight transfer to the left side, but it's virtually impossible, and frankley not adviseable, to copy anyone else exactly. We are all structurally, and therefore biomechanically,slightly different.

Hogan  much more cross-lateral from his right heel into his left fore foot. You roll over the left foot a lot more.

Knutson remarked that Hogan's stable left foot thru impact was a key difference in Hogan vs other swings.

Venturi and Burke both say Hogan controlled his downswing and strike with his right hand and hip. You may be more left sided thru the ball.

Burke says Hogan practiced for hours starting with his right heel off the ground at address, He wanted to feel the weight shift to the right heel, and then stressed "getting off the right heel" on the downswing. It's the same "explode off the right" move made by most great players except Hogan's top of the backswing position would have gotten him too far ahead of it without the dramatic cross lateral move to the ball of the left foot, never rolling it over.

This cross lateral move ties in with his hip action. It's interesting, and not to surprising, that Hogan's right hip seems to fire just like Rory McIlroy's---15* to the right of target----on the path of the club on the downswing to the ball. They both square their hips to the target long after the ball is gone.That's the most efficient power vector---better than down the line or at the ball, which would bleed off speed.

Nice action however!

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 25 December 2012 - 06:34 AM.


#12 jurr80

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:58 AM

Totally emulating one's swing is tough.
We all have different flexibilities in our bodies.

Some can separate the upper and lower halves of our bodies better than others.

That photo of Sam Snead kicking the ceiling at 70 opened my eyes.

Guys like Tiger and Rory can twist like their spines are not held down with muscle.
They can get past 90 degrees shoulder turn from a seated position.

I truly believe that we all have a specific optimal swing for our body types.
We can enhance this through exercise, stretching, and work on mechanics, but there is a range that we fall in based on genetics.

That said, I like your swing. A LOT.

#13 BogeyDope

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:18 AM

Don't know about the swing, but you sure dress like him.  Dress well; play well.

#14 russc

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

View PostTexsport, on 25 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

You have a slightly different weight transfer to the left side, but it's virtually impossible, and frankley not adviseable, to copy anyone else exactly. We are all structurally, and therefore biomechanically,slightly different.

Hogan  much more cross-lateral from his right heel into his left fore foot. You roll over the left foot a lot more.

Knutson remarked that Hogan's stable left foot thru impact was a key difference in Hogan vs other swings.

Venturi and Burke both say Hogan controlled his downswing and strike with his right hand and hip. You may be more left sided thru the ball.

Burke says Hogan practiced for hours starting with his right heel off the ground at address, He wanted to feel the weight shift to the right heel, and then stressed "getting off the right heel" on the downswing. It's the same "explode off the right" move made by most great players except Hogan's top of the backswing position would have gotten him too far ahead of it without the dramatic cross lateral move to the ball of the left foot, never rolling it over.

This cross lateral move ties in with his hip action. It's interesting, and not to surprising, that Hogan's right hip seems to fire just like Rory McIlroy's---15* to the right of target----on the path of the club on the downswing to the ball. They both square their hips to the target long after the ball is gone.That's the most efficient power vector---better than down the line or at the ball, which would bleed off speed.

Nice action however!

Texsport
I am curious about your point about moving into the left forefoot.During at least part of his career ,Mr Hogan lifted his left heel slightly of of the ground going back.During transition the heel was on the ground.Would this not indicate that Mr Hogan weighted/place pressure on his left heel and not his left forefoot

#15 christogarcia

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

View Postdairic, on 25 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

What's your ball flight like?

I am hitting the ball very well.  My Hogan swing produces a straight ball to slight fade with a boring trajectory up to 300.  I have hit my 3 iron 222 in normal conditions.


#16 christogarcia

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

View Postchiva, on 25 December 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

Your swing looks very similar to Hogan's. I've seen your you tube channel. Nice action. You look as much like Hogan as anyone I've seen. What kind of scores does it produce?

I'm shooting in the mid-70's.  I have never broken par, but it was suggested to me to play from the whites until I can break par.

#17 KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

A million+ Elvis impersonators say:  NO

#18 sheldonjhacker

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:19 PM

JESUS WHAT A GREAT LOOKING SWING !!!

#19 Texsport

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

View Postrussc, on 25 December 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 25 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

You have a slightly different weight transfer to the left side, but it's virtually impossible, and frankley not adviseable, to copy anyone else exactly. We are all structurally, and therefore biomechanically,slightly different.

Hogan  much more cross-lateral from his right heel into his left fore foot. You roll over the left foot a lot more.

Knutson remarked that Hogan's stable left foot thru impact was a key difference in Hogan vs other swings.

Venturi and Burke both say Hogan controlled his downswing and strike with his right hand and hip. You may be more left sided thru the ball.

Burke says Hogan practiced for hours starting with his right heel off the ground at address, He wanted to feel the weight shift to the right heel, and then stressed "getting off the right heel" on the downswing. It's the same "explode off the right" move made by most great players except Hogan's top of the backswing position would have gotten him too far ahead of it without the dramatic cross lateral move to the ball of the left foot, never rolling it over.

This cross lateral move ties in with his hip action. It's interesting, and not to surprising, that Hogan's right hip seems to fire just like Rory McIlroy's---15* to the right of target----on the path of the club on the downswing to the ball. They both square their hips to the target long after the ball is gone.That's the most efficient power vector---better than down the line or at the ball, which would bleed off speed.

Nice action however!

Texsport
I am curious about your point about moving into the left forefoot.During at least part of his career ,Mr Hogan lifted his left heel slightly of of the ground going back.During transition the heel was on the ground.Would this not indicate that Mr Hogan weighted/place pressure on his left heel and not his left forefoot

Lifting the left heel on the backswing is completely a means of getting a deeper top of the backswing position. He did it because his flexibility was decreasing with age.

Hogan once said that hitting the inside of the ball consistently was the key to great golf.

He always accentuated weight onto the forefoot, and never, ever rolled his left foot over after impact.....he was right on top of the left at the finish. This is part of driving his momentum/right hip on the same path as the club was delivered....that is, from inside to slightly right of the target line. Hogan stopped his weight right on top of the left foot, which, at that point, caused his club to turn sharply to the left, up the plane, and into his high finish. Actually the reason for his high finish was this posting of his weight on top of his left foot.

Think about it...he delivered the club from the inside with very connected arms. When the turn was stopped by the left foot, the only place his arms and the club could finish was up.

Hogan figured out what Trackman confirmed 50-60 years later. That was, and is, the way to hit it straight consistently.

Hogan used very heavy clubs with flat lies...7* flat irons.
Body aimed left.
Club face aimed left, between foot line and target.
Club face delivered very flat,from the inside, with both arms connected to the body...particularly the right arm.
All this combined to give him a straight to slightly faded shot.

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 26 December 2012 - 06:21 AM.


#20 dairic

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

View Postchristogarcia, on 25 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

View Postdairic, on 25 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

What's your ball flight like?

I am hitting the ball very well.  My Hogan swing produces a straight ball to slight fade with a boring trajectory up to 300.  I have hit my 3 iron 222 in normal conditions.

That's awesome. Even though there are differences in how you swing the club when compared to hogan, I think you have demonstrated that you can develop a very good swing as a result of studying and emulating someone else. And besides, it's tones of fun to chase after Hogan.

Edited by dairic, 25 December 2012 - 05:46 PM.


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#21 OspreyCI

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

What a great looking swing. Nice job!
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#22 bscinstnct

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

Biggest difference I see is Hogans hips open a fair amount more than yours at impact and he's holding more lag as a result

You juuuust slightly start to lift and rise a bit into impact as opposed to Hogan

He just keeps driving through

But it looks very good!

Edited by bscinstnct, 25 December 2012 - 11:45 PM.


#23 tembolo1284

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

heyyyyyyy..nice to see you join the forum!
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#24 MizunoJoe

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

You don't even have to play the video to say no.  The opening still has too many differences.

#25 kellygreen

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

No, you can't completely replicate another person's golf swing...unless you have their body, personality and nervous system as well.

But then duplicating every nuance and quirk in their swing is niether necessary, nor desirable.  

What IS desirable is to UNDERSTAND Hogan's swing....what are the fundamentals that made it such an consistent, repeatable motion...and THEN apply those things to YOUR OWN swinging motion, if they are appropriate.

There are many contemporary players who ahve done that, and adapted the lessons to their own swings....and a few teachers out there that (imo) have done the same.

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#26 tylerdurden

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

Nice swing. I don't think you've duplicated Hogan though, not Hogan's dynamics, IMO. I see your swing as most similar on a cosmetic level, let's say 90% there, and lets say 50% on dynamics. Where as I'd say Gary Woodland has about 50% cosmetics of Hogan, and about 90% dynamics.

I think if someone actually "duplicated" hogan's swing from dynamics perspective 100%, you would see them playing on TV because they would be the best ball striker in the world, IMO.

Spider, Slicefixers student, also had similar dynamics to Hogan, IMO, and he ended up looking very similar from a cosmetic standpoint too. And played at a very high level before his tragic accident. RIP.

#27 Jericho

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

Christo...big fan of the youtube videos!

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#28 Ben Hogan Swing Project

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

View Posttylerdurden, on 27 December 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Nice swing. I don't think you've duplicated Hogan though, not Hogan's dynamics, IMO. I see your swing as most similar on a cosmetic level, let's say 90% there, and lets say 50% on dynamics. Where as I'd say Gary Woodland has about 50% cosmetics of Hogan, and about 90% dynamics.

I think if someone actually "duplicated" hogan's swing from dynamics perspective 100%, you would see them playing on TV because they would be the best ball striker in the world, IMO.

Spider, Slicefixers student, also had similar dynamics to Hogan, IMO, and he ended up looking very similar from a cosmetic standpoint too. And played at a very high level before his tragic accident. RIP.

Good points Tyler. I'm going for the "as close as I can get" to the cosmetics. Everybody knows I have no care of the dynamics and ball flight (Sorry tembolo lol).

If I "duplicate" hogan's swing from cosmetics perspective >95%, you would not see me playing on TV, but I would be the best ball striker in my house, IMO.

#29 Ben Hogan Swing Project

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

Chris, what exactly are you trying to duplicate? Aesthetics, cosmetics, ball flight, distance, scoring, etc??

#30 Ben Hogan Swing Project

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

I have a list of Hogan "absolutes" that everyones already aware of(of course from a cosmetic/aesthetic perspective). One of the parts of Chris' swing that I like is his right leg action during tkwy/bckswing. I call it the "75 degree kickstand."

Edited by Ben Hogan Swing Project, 27 December 2012 - 05:26 PM.


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Also tagged with Ben Hogan, MySwingEvolution

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