103 replies to this topic

[kevcarter]

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

[Sawgrass]

deadsolid...shank, on 22 December 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

[I still maintain the bottom line is, if there is a hole open in front of you, and people are waiting.....just let them go. But this seems to actually piss people off to let someone through.

I don't think that it "pisses" people off to let others play through . . . I think many slow players don't let faster players play through simply BECAUSE SLOW PLAYERS DON'T WANT TO WAIT, EITHER!

Some people feel they have a "right" to play at a slower pace, some feel they have a right to play faster.  While it's obvious that slow people should let fast people play through, it's also obvious that this passing effort takes extra time, and therefore isn't a perfect solution.

It seems to me that courses which go out of their way to define themselves as being serious about brisk pace should attract like-minded golfers.  I'm reminded of this:



That sign was up even back in the day, when the Black was not a particularly popular course.  I think it did a pretty good job of weeding out hackers, and even when it didn't it make hackers play faster because they knew they really shouldn't be there and shouldn't slow things down after disobeying the sign to begin with.

I wonder if a simple sign on the first tee declaring a course for "fast players only" would help.

[profsmitty]

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

[scotchblade]

Today, three days before Xmas, I went shopping at Trader Joes. Got there around 8:15am. No parking issues, no hysteria, no lines.  It was great.  Drove by the same location at 1pm and it was a zoo.  There were more cars than parking places.  Shoppers trying to get in and out created a traffic jam and it will only get worse as the day goes on.

So what does this have to with anything?

Golf and slow play are an age old problem.  You may as well try to "cure" traffic on the roadways.  You can't.

What you can do is avoid peak times and play (or drive or shop) when the sheeple are not out clogging things up.  Or play courses that take pace of play seriously and employ rangers that enforce it.  That's about all you can control.

[kevcarter]

profsmitty, on 22 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

I give up.

[Sawgrass]

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

profsmitty, on 22 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

I give up.

I'm pretty sure that giving up is golf genius.  

[MileHighClub]

I hate slow play with a passion, but it will never stop me from playing.

I think the two main causes of slow play are:

Some golfers don't know golf etiquette

Some golfers are selfish SOB's who don't give a crap about anyone else

Other than good attentive course rangers with the stones to do something about it, there probably is no solution.

Edited by MileHighClub, 22 December 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[HitEmTrue]

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

profsmitty, on 22 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

I give up.

I don't believe I've ever seen two people who seem to agree with each other get so frustrated by that agreement.  

And hope ya'll have great holidays!

[ABgolfer2]

profsmitty, on 22 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

I'm not sure every person here really cares if everybody else is having fun or playing a pace that's comfortable to them. If someone's enjoyable comfy pace is a six hour round they should have to pay for 36 holes.

[profsmitty]

HitEmTrue, on 23 December 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

profsmitty, on 22 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 22 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think we all want the same thing. We just want everybody to have fun and play at a pace that's comfortable for them. When not possible, you just have to go with the flow and have a little understanding of the hand you are dealt...

That is the point, Kev. We want everyone to have a good time however, if ruining everyone's day in the process of having their great day, that's silly. The course operator's expectation for pace of play should be the standard and the operator should have the courage to enforce it. That is the answer to pace of play issues.

I give up.

I don't believe I've ever seen two people who seem to agree with each other get so frustrated by that agreement.  

And hope ya'll have great holidays!

I was trying to agree with Kev. I know that he is on the front line of this issue - a lot more than the rest of us. The truth is that people who think that every round should be played in 3 hours is as much of a pain as people who want to play every round in 6 hours. What I was trying to say is that there is no magic bullet. There is a certain amount of leisure embedded in the game by the rules and traditions of the sport. There is also an attitude of entitlement in the way some people approach all aspects of their life. They want what they want when they want it and the rest of the world be damned.

There is room for both the speedsters and the turtles if both are willing to be flexible about where and when they play. The problem is that there is very little flexibility on this issue. Sans that - the only referee has got to be the course operator. They are like the mods on this site. They (like we) have to be considerate of everyones opinion, add a little humor to tense situations, and be firm when necessary to keep things on track.

I apologized to my friend Kev if he felt I was blaming the course operators for the problem. Far from it. We need to support them when they have to do a tough job. It's our support that lets them be firm and fair.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, indeed.

[Socrates]

[kevcarter]

profsmitty, on 23 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, indeed.

We are definitely on the same page Smitty. The problem with typing over several hours, I was frustrated going in, and mis-read your post. No apology was needed from you, but perhaps from my mis-interpretation, I owe you the apology.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Kevin

[Imp]

Sawgrass, on 22 December 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

deadsolid...shank, on 22 December 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

[I still maintain the bottom line is, if there is a hole open in front of you, and people are waiting.....just let them go. But this seems to actually piss people off to let someone through.

I don't think that it "pisses" people off to let others play through . . . I think many slow players don't let faster players play through simply BECAUSE SLOW PLAYERS DON'T WANT TO WAIT, EITHER!

Some people feel they have a "right" to play at a slower pace, some feel they have a right to play faster.  While it's obvious that slow people should let fast people play through, it's also obvious that this passing effort takes extra time, and therefore isn't a perfect solution.

Yep.

And then there's being the 1st group out after a league or tournament. Odds are mostly in the favor of "you aren't playing through".

I've gotten to the point that whenever I make a tee time for mid morning, early afternoon, I have to ask "Is there a league or tourney?" it's gotten so bad up here. If it's a tourney, I have to follow that up with "was it shotgun start". If it were a shotgun, then I have zero problem being 1st out, as it's going to go fast. If not... it'll be a lesson in futility.

--kC

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

In my neck of the woods "Shotgun Start" is the kiss of death, pace-wise. The real tournaments (i.e. people playing their own ball, real golf) tend not to use shotgun starts. The shotgun things are hit-n-giggle social/drinking/nonsense events like scrambles and so forth. Those basically shut down the course for most of the day. A small-field tournament, say something like 30, 40, 50 players will usually start teeing off early and have everyone on the course by 10:30 or 11:00am. Give them an hour to get ahead and it usually smooth sailing.