48 replies to this topic

[driverwedge3putt]

I know why i hook - my grip is good but Im attacking the ball 15 deg from the inside.  Im also hitting UP on the ball with irons 2 - 3 deg causing very little spin - my divots are all pointing to the right a bit too.  

Can anybody suggest some drills to swing down the line?  I want to hit it straight, no cut, no draw, just straight.  down the line with a square club face.  Any suggestions?

[MonteScheinblum]

driverwedge3putt, on 02 December 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I know why i hook - my grip is good but Im attacking the ball 15 deg from the inside.  Im also hitting UP on the ball with irons 2 - 3 deg causing very little spin - my divots are all pointing to the right a bit too.  

Can anybody suggest some drills to swing down the line?  I want to hit it straight, no cut, no draw, just straight.  down the line with a square club face.  Any suggestions?

Need to know why the path is so in to out.  Any video?

[iteachgolf]

I'd question the accuracy of machine.  You can't hit up on an iron 2-3*, and get it in the air.  Certainly can't hit up and take a divot with an iron, unless you hit it a foot behind the ball.

[driverwedge3putt]

I teach I had a trackman 3 fitting yesterday.  I take a very small divot if any and my miss is thin.  My big miss *usually a long iron off a tee* is hitting behind the ball.

No video but I can take one next weekend.

[iteachgolf]

Still think all those numbers are skewed/inaccurate.  Trackman could be misaligned.  Were balls hit off mat?  Trackman still has to be setup correctly to be sccurate and I have never seen anyone hit 2-3* up on an iron.  What were numbers on a solid iron shot.

[driverwedge3putt]

Ill open the PDF and get them to you.  I dont care about the numbers to be honest I just need help to swing a bit more down the line.   The fitter send me a bunch of info but I dont think the numbers were included just the club info, ...

I KNOW Im not hitting down on the ball.  I dont take a divot and generate very little spin.  And my very minor divots all go to the right.  Funny when I started I wanted to hit a draw now I wish I could hit a cut.

[iteachgolf]

Without video I'm purely speculating, but guessing left arm is too far across your chest coming down and shoulders are staying too closed coming down.  Simple answer is go try to hit a pull cut.  You have to spectrum yourself.  You're on one end of spectrum and to fix it you have to go PAST where your destination is in the other direction. If you can do both ends of the spectrum you can find some sort of middle ground

[driverwedge3putt]

I can kinda hit it straight when I REALLY clear my hips.   My ball always starts right - always.  Sometimes If I clear my hips I can hit it straight if I really clear.

I can open my face on the takeaway and clear hard to hit a cut but I think my path is still messed up.

[driverwedge3putt]

if i helps my misses with long irons are ugly low hooks.  My short irons draw but dont hook but I still miss greens left.  I usually hit the driver pretty good - play a draw but hit the driver long.  I hit low hooks with fairway woods and especailly hybrids.

[driverwedge3putt]

CLUB SPEED BALL SPEED SMASH FAC. CARRY TOTAL ATTACK ANG. CLUB PATH FACE ANG. SWING DIR. FACE TO PATH SWING PL. LAUNCH ANG. LAUNCH DIR. SPIN RATE SPIN AXIS SIDE LAND. ANG.



6i JPX 825 2 87.6 124.0 1.42 187.9 210.5 1.5 11.2 6.9 12.7 ‐4.5 59.2 14.2 7.7 3277 ‐10.8 37.5R 33.6


6i AP1 105T 87.8 127.0 1.45 192.4 211.6 2.4 12.4 5.4 13.9 ‐7.0 58.9 14.5 6.9 3769 ‐15.9 4.4R 36.4


6i JPX 825 Pro 90.5 128.3 1.42 198.3 216.0 2.2 12.8 8.4 14.2 ‐4.4 58.0 15.9 9.2 3633 ‐11.6 46.6R 39.3

[iteachgolf]

I'd check accuracy of setup. Shows you hit up on iron shots while launching them at a normal to high trajectory with a smash factor that is too high for any shot not hit really thin.  No way you are launching a 6 iron at 16* while only spinning it 3633 rpms and a 1.42 smash factor.  That smash factor and spin would make sense on a really thin shot but it wouldn't launch 16*.   Those numbers look like someone hitting a 13* driver not an iron. It's showing 190+ carry and 20 yards of roll on a 6 iron.  So with slower than tour average speed you are carrying 10 yards further than tour average while thining it?  At that clubhead speed i expect you to carry 6 iron 170-175.   Something is funny here with the setup or calibration of machine

As far as what to work on I already said.  Hit some pull cuts.  Get ball to start left and fade. Then you can find middle ground.

Edited by iteachgolf, 02 December 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[Jon Robert]

You need to be gifted.  Moe Norman was maybe the best straight ball hitter ever. They called him pipeline Moe because he hit straight down a pipe. Some considered he had autism - like the kid that never played a piano sits down and plays like a pro.  Anyway the great Ben Hogan was never impressed by others but was impressed by Moe. Hogan considered straight shots to be accidents.  After watching Moe hit every single shot dead straight on the range he said before he left, "keep hitting those accidents kid" (as I remember - not exact)

The point is that golf is a game of misses. Try very hard to learn how to hit straight shots but better to learn how to deliberately hit curving shots. They are actually probably easier because your miss is only off to one side of square rather than either side. Either straight or curved we still have to learn to play within the parameters of our miss range.  For example from 150yds and more it is wise to aim for the middle of the green allowing for misses.  100-150yds aim between the middle and the pin.  From 100yds or less aim for the pin.  Unless you are Moe Norman that is.  He once wanted to bet a guy that he would hit the 250yd sign with his driver before the other fellow sunk an 8 foot putt.  The other guy declined as the odds were in Moe’s favor.

I was incorporating what I just said in my putting today. I was deliberately finishing/ follow through my putts by deliberately fanning the blade after the ball contact.  The thinking being that I am only dealing with missing square blade off to one side(uphill side)  rather than the possibility of missing square off to either side.

But to answer your question:

" In Summary,  To hit the ball straight with no slicing or hooking, the clubhead path should be slightly open at First Contact (about a third of a degree, typically) and approximately the same amount closed at Separation.
The clubface should also be slightly open at First Contact (about one- to two-thirds of a degree, typically, depending on the Hinging) and approximately the same amount closed at Separation. Any deviations will cause the ball to start and/or drift somewhat off-line."
By Dr Aaron Zick (Physicist)  

Dr. Aaron Zick, a Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering from Stanford University, Physicist and President of Zick Technologies, and a golf swing physics expert who really understands the science behind how things work in the golf swing.
http://www.golfswing.com.au/159

Edited by Jon Robert, 03 December 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[russc]

Practice the Ben Hogan 5 lessons drill.9-3 or shorter only

[driverwedge3putt]

Like I said I don't care about the numbers.  on the course I carry my 6 iron 185.  I get maybe 3-4 yards of roll at the most.   I just want to go down the line lol.

[MountainKing]

I worked with a teacher years back who did some work with a few lesser known PGA guys and what was then the Nike tour guys.  He told me a lot of them do have the tendency to come to far inside (kind of the opposite problem of most amateurs) causing hard draws and hooks.  He said if you watch a lot of these guys on tour when they take practice swings they'll actually make exaggerated moves over the top to get that more down the line feel of the swing. There's a guy currently out there who I see doing this regularly, he'll swing to the top, not make a full swing down but make the over the top motion for the first quarter Perhaps some exaggerated swings like this in slow motion might help get that feel, but you also need to be careful because if you're not practicing regularly this could quickly turn into an over the top problem.

[iteachgolf]

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Like I said I don't care about the numbers.  on the course I carry my 6 iron 185.  I get maybe 3-4 yards of roll at the most.   I just want to go down the line lol.

Like I said practice hitting pull cuts.  Key here is pull cuts. For a straight shot your divot will have to point left of your target.  Can't make it any simplest and said it three times in this thread already.

[JPeacockGolf]

When I get wayyyy inside out I go to the range and try to hit about 50 banana balls (pull slices). You will probably hit a nice straight draw on your 1st or second try. This will show you how off your feel is. Wayyyy inside out feels normal right now. Go to the opposite extreme and then pull it back to playable.

[driverwedge3putt]

iteachgolf, on 03 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Like I said I don't care about the numbers.  on the course I carry my 6 iron 185.  I get maybe 3-4 yards of roll at the most.   I just want to go down the line lol.

Like I said practice hitting pull cuts.  Key here is pull cuts. For a straight shot your divot will have to point left of your target.  Can't make it any simplest and said it three times in this thread already.

wow Im sure you have a huge client base with that attitude! Thanks!  I also read it twice but you asked for numbers which I gave you.  You said the numbers were still not correct so I said (and not just to you) that I didn't care I just wanted to hit it striaght.  It was a simple question.

[isaacbm]

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

iteachgolf, on 03 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Like I said I don't care about the numbers.  on the course I carry my 6 iron 185.  I get maybe 3-4 yards of roll at the most.   I just want to go down the line lol.

Like I said practice hitting pull cuts.  Key here is pull cuts. For a straight shot your divot will have to point left of your target.  Can't make it any simplest and said it three times in this thread already.

wow Im sure you have a huge client base with that attitude! Thanks!  I also read it twice but you asked for numbers which I gave you.  You said the numbers were still not correct so I said (and not just to you) that I didn't care I just wanted to hit it striaght.  It was a simple question.

Wow was this ever rude.  You've got a respected member answering your questions multiple times and you keep responding like you didn't see it.  then when he points this out to you, you call him out and say he has a bad attitude.

Maybe it was a simple miscommunication....

Anyway,  another way is to simply swing in a mirror in slow motion and make your body trace the path that you're looking for.  Remember the shoulders lead the arms.  If your left shoulder is moving up and to the right of the target, you'll come at it hard from the inside.  Practice making slow motion swing where the left shoulder moves down and to the left of target.

[driverwedge3putt]

isaacbm, on 03 December 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

iteachgolf, on 03 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

driverwedge3putt, on 03 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Like I said I don't care about the numbers.  on the course I carry my 6 iron 185.  I get maybe 3-4 yards of roll at the most.   I just want to go down the line lol.

Like I said practice hitting pull cuts.  Key here is pull cuts. For a straight shot your divot will have to point left of your target.  Can't make it any simplest and said it three times in this thread already.

wow Im sure you have a huge client base with that attitude! Thanks!  I also read it twice but you asked for numbers which I gave you.  You said the numbers were still not correct so I said (and not just to you) that I didn't care I just wanted to hit it striaght.  It was a simple question.

Wow was this ever rude.  You've got a respected member answering your questions multiple times and you keep responding like you didn't see it.  then when he points this out to you, you call him out and say he has a bad attitude.

Maybe it was a simple miscommunication....

Anyway,  another way is to simply swing in a mirror in slow motion and make your body trace the path that you're looking for.  Remember the shoulders lead the arms.  If your left shoulder is moving up and to the right of the target, you'll come at it hard from the inside.  Practice making slow motion swing where the left shoulder moves down and to the left of target.

thanks for the drill Isaac. I need some tips like this.  I don't think my post was rude I just thought his was.  Whatever I don't care.  

I don't even know how to hit a pull cut - I can't get that "over the top" feeling.  Like I said I have to open my face way open on takeaway (rolling the wrists) then swing normally.

[isaacbm]

Its very hard for a lot of people to get their body to do something different when trying to swing in full speed while  hitting a ball.  The best thing for me has been to use mirrors and partial speed swings.  remember the swing is a sequence.  Too often we see only what the club head is doing but that is an effect no a cause.

The cause of the routing of the swing path is in the weight shift and the direction that the shoulders are moving.

Edited by isaacbm, 03 December 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[iteachgolf]

Wasn't trying to be rude. You kept responding as if nobody had given you anything, when I ended up continuing to repeat myself. I said its likely that your left arm is too deep across your chest and your shoulders are staying too closed too long on the downswing.  You can't hit a pull cut because the divot would have to be considerably left of the target to do so.  Learn how to take a divot that points left of the target to hit it straight.

Btw I do fairly well for myself teaching wise.  You obviously don't know who I am and that's fine.  Keep in mind that people here are offering advice to you for free.  Showing a little gratitude can go a long way.

[chiva]

iteachgolf, on 03 December 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Wasn't trying to be rude. You kept responding as if nobody had given you anything, when I ended up continuing to repeat myself. I said its likely that your left arm is too deep across your chest and your shoulders are staying too closed too long on the downswing.  You can't hit a pull cut because the divot would have to be considerably left of the target to do so.  Learn how to take a divot that points left of the target to hit it straight.

Btw I do fairly well for myself teaching wise.  You obviously don't know who I am and that's fine.  Keep in mind that people here are offering advice to you for free.  Showing a little gratitude can go a long way.

+1

Free advice from iteach is no joke. Listen to the man b/c he has done this a few times before. Isaacbm gave some good advice as well. The way to hit that pull cut will be to get that left should more down (slightly less vertical shoulder rotation) and open like isaacbm stated. When the left shoulder gets to high and pointing to the right this really drops your plan too far inside. I've experienced this before. I know what it feels like and had the same symptoms as you. Listen to iteach and isaacbm and you'll get this corrected in 15 minutes on the range. The trick is to keep it corrected:) What a great site!

[driverwedge3putt]

I agree the site is great and I do appreciate the advice.  Ive been told by an instructor that my takeaway was slightly disconnected and I used a bit too much right hand.
Im Seasons over here so Im looking for some things to help over the winter - I dont think I want to see a teacher because I have gone to a few last year and each said something different - from my local pro to a former PGA tour player using V1 and all that stuff.  I think I need to figure this out myself.

[tony.tonso]

iteachgolf, on 02 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

  Hit some pull cuts.  Get ball to start left and fade. Then you can find middle ground.

I was having the same inside-to-out problem. Went to the range and tried your "pull cut" solution....All I can say is thank you! Feels wierd but the ball is starting online, staying there and the ball compression is as good as its ever been. Again...good tip and its appreciated

[driverwedge3putt]

tony.tonso, on 04 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

iteachgolf, on 02 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

  Hit some pull cuts.  Get ball to start left and fade. Then you can find middle ground.

I was having the same inside-to-out problem. Went to the range and tried your "pull cut" solution....All I can say is thank you! Feels wierd but the ball is starting online, staying there and the ball compression is as good as its ever been. Again...good tip and its appreciated

did you focus on swinging out to in with the face open?

[russc]

It is damn hard getting a 6 iron off of the ground while hitting up on it .Even touring pros average hitting down on their drivers and that is from  a tee.
You basically want to swing more of from an  INSIDE -SQUARE-INSIDE PATH and not an INSIDE-OUT path.To do this you really want to feel that your LOWER BODY is rotating hard left going down.Try this drill shown in this video by Martin Chuck.Only 9-3 until you have you consistently are are compressing the ball.Focus on just your lower body rotation(pivot) through to your finish

[iteachgolf]

driverwedge3putt, on 04 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

tony.tonso, on 04 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

iteachgolf, on 02 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

  Hit some pull cuts.  Get ball to start left and fade. Then you can find middle ground.

I was having the same inside-to-out problem. Went to the range and tried your "pull cut" solution....All I can say is thank you! Feels wierd but the ball is starting online, staying there and the ball compression is as good as its ever been. Again...good tip and its appreciated

did you focus on swinging out to in with the face open?

To hit a pull cut the face would still have to be left of the target at impact. Path just has to be even more left.

[tony.tonso]

driverwedge3putt, on 04 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

tony.tonso, on 04 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

iteachgolf, on 02 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

  Hit some pull cuts.  Get ball to start left and fade. Then you can find middle ground.

I was having the same inside-to-out problem. Went to the range and tried your "pull cut" solution....All I can say is thank you! Feels wierd but the ball is starting online, staying there and the ball compression is as good as its ever been. Again...good tip and its appreciated

did you focus on swinging out to in with the face open?

Basically, thats what it felt like. I was pulling the butt of the club hard to the left (im right handed). Some were pulls, pull cuts, and then i was able to dial it in for some straight shots and some nice power fades (which I have never been able to do)

[driverwedge3putt]

haha I just did that ben hogan drill in my basement for 20 min im tired lol.  Did it into a mirror - looked good!  you can really trace your swing.  

What "thoughts" are you thinking when trying to hit a cut?  Pull the handle hard to the left?  Over the top?  hit the outside off the ball?