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Why did they ban Sam Snead's croquet putting style?

USGA Putting Ban

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#1 iBanesto

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:50 PM



Just wondering as I watch De Vicenzo vs. Snead.


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#2 highergr0und

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

SI article from 1967 on it

http://sportsillustr...906/1/index.htm

#3 esketores

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

If what was written in the book The American Triumvirate carries even an iota of factual truth... Mr. Snead had gotten on the bad side of the head of the USGA. It was personal.
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#4 H.A. Kerr

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

The fact that everyone uses the name of an entire other sport to describe the style probably didn't help.

#5 Chief Illiniwek

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:44 AM

Those petitioning the USGA should also be asking for a lift on the ban of Snead's style and the "pool cue" method. Both show no statistical advantage and were available to use for most of golf's history.


#6 spitfisher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

why the ban? simple it was unorthodox style, somthing that the USGA didn'tcare for to see win..........Much like the anchoring of todays belly and broomstick putters

#7 spitfisher

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:41 AM

View Posthighergr0und, on 30 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

SI article from 1967 on it

http://sportsillustr...906/1/index.htm

Whats very interesting in that article was the R & A and USGA ruled against the use of the croquette style of putting and "unusual" putters in June of 1967 and it went into effect Jan 1968. This was a rule change much like anchoring today yet today the ban goes into effect in 2016

#8 Dire Wolf

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostH.A. Kerr, on 01 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

The fact that everyone uses the name of an entire other sport to describe the style probably didn't help.


Yet the "baseball grip" is ok.  ;)

Snead wrote that he thought Bobby Jones had something to do with it, and Jones told him to knock it off because it doesn't look like golf.

#9 bunter101

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:58 PM

^^^ Yep attributed to a fall out with Jones.

If the top guys don't like something, they carry the power to have it banned....

On the PGA they even got a player banned!

#10 Bob57

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

Jones was probably just a bitter crippled old man who was jealous of Snead's ability to play excellent golf at an age where Jones was in a wheelchair.


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#11 bossdog

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 03:02 AM

View PostBob57, on 01 December 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Jones was probably just a bitter crippled old man who was jealous of Snead's ability to play excellent golf at an age where Jones was in a wheelchair.
wow... Who are you again?

#12 Dire Wolf

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:58 AM

View PostBob57, on 01 December 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Jones was probably just a bitter crippled old man who was jealous of Snead's ability to play excellent golf at an age where Jones was in a wheelchair.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess "no" to that.

#13 smoky25

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

View Postspitfisher, on 01 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

View Posthighergr0und, on 30 November 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

SI article from 1967 on it

http://sportsillustr...906/1/index.htm

Whats very interesting in that article was the R & A and USGA ruled against the use of the croquette style of putting and "unusual" putters in June of 1967 and it went into effect Jan 1968. This was a rule change much like anchoring today yet today the ban goes into effect in 2016

More importantly, Snead started using the method in late 1966, the issue was addressed less than a year later, and a new rule written that was effective Jan. 1968. Back then the USGA/R&A acted within a reasonable time frame to affect a rule change, in contrast to our present decades long anchoring debacle. By the way, at the time  Nicklaus opposed the banning of the croquet method.

#14 Jim Clark

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

Jones quit playing competitive golf at a fairly young age. It was reported, and shown in the movie "Stoke of Genius", that Jones would become physically ill and mentally drained at nearly every tournament he played.

Back on topic, the USGA banned the croquet style for similar reasons they want to ban anchoring, they felt it did not resemble a golf "stroke". Snead just moved the ball from between his legs to the right side but still faced the hole and used the extreme split grip with his right hand way below the left. He was pretty successful with that method.

I agree that the USGA and R&A should just make the new rule effective immediately after the 90 day comment period, waiting until 2016 seems silly.

Edited by Jim Clark, 06 December 2012 - 08:12 AM.


#15 smoky25

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 04:56 PM

View PostJim Clark, on 02 December 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Jones quit playing competitive golf at a fairly young age. It was reported, and shown in the movie "Stoke of Genius", that Jones would become physically ill and mentally drained at nearly every tournament he played.

Back on topic, the USGA banned the croquet style for similar reasons they want to ban anchoring, they felt it did not resemble a golf "stroke". Snead just moved the ball from between his legs to the right side but still faced the hole and used the extreme split grip with his right hand way below the left. He was pretty successful with that method.

I agree that the USGA and R&A should just make the new rule effective immediately after the 90 day comment period, waiting until 2016 seems silly.

Why? They apparently feel that waiting decades to finally rule on anchoring is "reasonable." What's the rush? I'd say 2050 seems about right.


#16 PaddyK

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:57 AM

it also makes putting very easy. try it.

#17 pingman1

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

I guarantee someone will come out using the long puter with a side saddle stance.  Probably on the Champions Tour first.  Side saddle certainly doesn't look like a golf stroke.  What will the USGA.R&A do then?

#18 highergr0und

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:21 AM

View Postsmoky25, on 02 December 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:


More importantly, Snead started using the method in late 1966, the issue was addressed less than a year later, and a new rule written that was effective Jan. 1968. Back then the USGA/R&A acted within a reasonable time frame to affect a rule change, in contrast to our present decades long anchoring debacle. By the way, at the time  Nicklaus opposed the banning of the croquet method.

Remember that Nicklaus still doesn't care.....  The most interesting is that Gary Player was not for the ban back then while he is now.

#19 bunter101

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 08:28 AM

View Postpingman1, on 03 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

I guarantee someone will come out using the long puter with a side saddle stance.  Probably on the Champions Tour first.  Side saddle certainly doesn't look like a golf stroke.  What will the USGA.R&A do then?

KJ Choi has already had a go of it a year or two back.

Posted Image

#20 firstbatch

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 11:41 AM

Exactly....the side saddle putting was a significant part of the story-line in the book and movie Seven Days in Utopia.

And KJ was in the movie...loved the screen name they gave him.........T.K Oh.............
They even made a website dedicated to sell it.  But alas it only works well if you Anchor the butt end  to the shoulder

http://www.linksofut...olutionary.html

Edited by firstbatch, 03 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.


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#21 tembolo1284

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

View Postbunter101, on 03 December 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postpingman1, on 03 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

I guarantee someone will come out using the long puter with a side saddle stance.  Probably on the Champions Tour first.  Side saddle certainly doesn't look like a golf stroke.  What will the USGA.R&A do then?

KJ Choi has already had a go of it a year or two back.

Posted Image

I think i have a slightly diff way to do this. Run the grip up your arm which is legal. Then rest your tricep on your body. Bang! You have basically one long arm hitting putts. Feels almost like rolling the ball. You just gotta get a super upright putter. Maybe worth a try...
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#22 Prut

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

They banned it because it was successful.

View PostPaddyK, on 03 December 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

it also makes putting very easy. try it.


#23 iBanesto

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:12 PM



#24 Awsi Dooger

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

I watched Snead putt side saddle at Country Club of Miami, circa 1970. I think it was called the American Airlines Open. He bent over quite a bit more than the guy in that video. My memory is he gripped the club not many inches above the blade.

#25 iBanesto

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:36 AM

View PostAwsi Dooger, on 05 December 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I watched Snead putt side saddle at Country Club of Miami, circa 1970. I think it was called the American Airlines Open. He bent over quite a bit more than the guy in that video. My memory is he gripped the club not many inches above the blade.

Posted Image


#26 rustyputterguy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:17 AM

Just looking at that makes my back hurt... And he was doing it that way at what age?
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#27 Awsi Dooger

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:11 PM

View PostiBanesto, on 05 December 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

View PostAwsi Dooger, on 05 December 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I watched Snead putt side saddle at Country Club of Miami, circa 1970. I think it was called the American Airlines Open. He bent over quite a bit more than the guy in that video. My memory is he gripped the club not many inches above the blade.

Posted Image

Hey, thanks for refreshing and verifying my memory from childhood. That's indeed the hand position I remember, but everything else was somewhat different, using side saddle and not croquet. Snead's feet were much closer together using side saddle. The putter was obviously on the right side of his body, not the left. I seem to remember a bit more knee flex but not as bent from the torso. I'm sure there are pictures somewhere.

It was early morning when my dad and I approached. Plenty of dew. Snead was already on the course. We found his hole and watched him drain a lengthy putt, perhaps 30 feet, up a slope and breaking left. The gallery roared and it brought a wry smile from J.C. Snead, his nephew and a playing partner that day. There was quite a bit of local publicity because the two Sneads were paired together.

#28 tembolo1284

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Here we go.

samSneadSideLeft.jpg

SneadSideSaddlingBack.jpg

SamSneadSideSaddle.jpg
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#29 Awsi Dooger

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:27 PM

View Posttembolo1284, on 05 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:


Terrific. Thanks a bunch. I guess feet closer together was an understatement. I didn't remember they were virtually touching.

#30 Jim Clark

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:27 AM

McCord did an advice bit during a tournament telecast. He said the side saddle method would be better for most golfers. I don't know if he uses it. I can see how it could work well. You're facing your target line throughout the stroke. The left hand is just an anchor (not against the body) so it is taken out of the equation. Then the stroke is completed using only the right arm.

I think I'll give it a try ... just for giggles (mostly by my opponents). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it actually worked.


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