41 replies to this topic

[Jobu]

it takes the club off plane, narrows the swing arc, must be released (causing 99% of swing faults), drains power, etc. It's a physical truth that a variance in arc stalls a motion (ex. playground swing as the chain goes slack).  Why are golfers so dumbfounded by their lack of a pivot?  Do you think you can sling a tether ball around a pole with a slack rope?  what would happen if the rope suddenly doubled in length, unhinging?  centrifugal force stalls the motion.  Every right angle released in the downswing is a power leak.

[davekzg]

because if u didnt you'd hardly hit the ball anywhere

[inmens]

OP: You miss something important: the wrist alone are capable of more than 1/4 arc of swing. When wrists are properly triggered, this creates a tremendous centrifugal force and club speed.

[MDP1555]

The release of the wrist hinge is the final acceleration of the club head. Without it you would loose 1/4-1/3 of your club head speed or more. You would have almost no leverage coming into the ball.

[mesquite2]

A right angle released is a power source, not a power leak.

[bladestriker]

Try hammering a nail with no wrist...leverage is our friend

[craniac24]

I would love to see OP try to swing with zero wrist hinge.

[bspencer5008]

See my thread about my wrist hinge problem. I actually hit it pretty well with hardly any wrist hinge however I can't stand it.
http://www.golfwrx.c...59#entry5978559

[Stryker]

If you are having trouble hinging or overall feeling what the hands should be doing in the back swing, do yourself a favor and get a Tour Striker Educator. I have a decent swing, I hit the ball with forward shaft lean and compress the ball decently, but I've had trouble feeling exactly what the hands should be doing in the back swing. Sometimes I tend to hit the ball high on the face. Just received my Educator and had a session with it hitting into my mat. There were absolutely no high face hits and I was nailing the center of the face. I setup with it lightly pressing against my left arm. A little different from what Martin Chuck recommends, but I play with a pretty strong grip. During the back swing I would try to keep that same pressure on my left arm while feeling it slide up the arm. It was definitely a foreign feeling in the back swing, but like I said I was nailing the center of the face. Can't wait to take it out to the range to see the ball flight.

[golfsavvy]

The Tour Striker Educator is a great tool.  Recommended...

There are applications for which not hinging the wrists are applicable.  If you're playing in strong wind, less wrist hinge may be preferable to bring the flight down, and combined with a wider stance the reduction in knee movement also brings it down.  It's a trade-off, however, as you're sacrificing feel for trajectory.  You'll probably hit your irons straighter too.  There is a propensity in the industry to produce and trust a well-sequenced golf swing that produces solid contact and consistent trajectory at all times, but conditions often warrant adjustments.  If you can get past 'feel' in favor of 'performance', you can often score better.

Many players complain about a shot hit a little thin that ends up in a very positive position.  I always think if my marginal and bad shots end up good, that's a bonus!

[Jon Robert]

I can hit the ball just as far with no wrist hinge.  I find the wrist hinge is primarily a factor in getting the timing right for consistency.  I get much better tempo timing and rhythm with a wrist hinge.  The timing is particularly evident in the production of the "lag" position.  No wrist hinge is more likely to cause casting and maybe over the top where a wrist hinge is more likely to promote a lag position. I think no wrist hinge is a symptom of excessive grip pressure.  I can smack the ball 240+ with a 3/4 swing and no wrist hinge but it has other undesirable issues involved.

Edited by Jon Robert, 02 December 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[goobers80]

Perhaps you mean *forcing* a wrist hinge too early ? I never *hinge* my wrists in any golf swing , but they naturally do what they do when moving rest of body.  Thinking and doing wrist hinge always causes me to pick up early then flip at ball. Not thinking of it and lettings club set later in swings itself is when it works for me. I hit it plenty far enough even doing drills firming up wrists with light grip pressures to be more *stable* so works on different feels is easier. Most of videos i takes during practice shows a shorter no hinges swing that works fine.

Also options of *hinging* or downward loading on downswing to have good hits.

As most things, if you know you are not hinging and can controls it , go with it. I never have ever practiced hinging wrists and my game is quite goods.

I says do what is natural to your body and embrace its. Less stress over *positions* or certain movements that usually happen naturally if other big picture things are done well.

Edited by goobers80, 03 December 2012 - 03:08 AM.

[TheCityGame]

Just so that everyone is on the same page. . .does JB Holmes hinge his wrists in this video?



That's what I consider a no wrist-hinge swing. Some players seem to get where he is at the top, and then "flatten" the club with their wrists so that the shaft is pointing down the line. That's the kind of move I think the OP is talking about. It doesn't require any more turn, and probably contributes much more to a loss of accuracy than a gain of power.

But, really, I don't think about this very much. Just seems like some people are talking about different things when they talk about wrist hinge. I don't know -- or care -- if I hinge my wrists. My golf swing got a lot better when I stopped making an extra move at the top, though.

[Jon Robert]

I like Holmes swing as it is very much like mine. I as Holmes could use a little less violent down swing. Sure it would lose distance but gain accuracy.

As far as the original poster claims as to all the defects in a wrist hinge I totally disagree in the fact that Johnny miller says that the lag position is achieved by EVERY pro golfer and it is the most important position besides impact. That lag position I have found cannot be obtained without a wrist hinge. Sure I can smack it a mile without the hinge but only with undesirable elements as well. The biggest being casting and inconstant ball contact.

[4thand11]

I think if you swing a long rod with a weighted head at the end of it, your wrists will hinge naturally.  If you swing a hammer you don't need to think about hinging your wrists, it just happens.  The physics of weight and motion activate the hinge, not anything conscious.

Same exact thing happens in a baseball swing.  The weight at the end of the arms causes the wrists to hinge.  Then the force of the head coming back through causes the wrists to hinge back through.  I think if you actively try to make the wrists not hinge, you are interfering with the natural motion and therefore add an element that can cause problems even if you were able to hit the same distance (which I doubt).

JB Holmes in that video clearly has a wrist hinge IMO.

[hoganfan924]

I've never seen a competent golfer with a zero wrist hinge full swing.  I do have a friend who has minimal wrist hinge, but he's a very short hitter and average golfer.

JB Holmes actually has considerable wrist hinge and his wrist hinge increases in the transition - the opposite of poor players.  Same with Stricker.

[TheCityGame]

I was really just trying to clear up what people mean by "no wrist hinge".

If JB Holmes in that video "very clearly" has a wrist hinge, or a "considerable" wrist hinge, then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like. I'm not saying anyone is wrong - - really, I'm just trying to nail down what some people mean by "no wrist hinge". Is there a video of it? Are there are pros who are "minimal hingers" vs. "maximal hingers" to get some idea of what we're talking about?

This guy comes up if you search "no wrist hinge golf swing", but he looks like he hinges more than JB; he just doesn't turn as far.

[craniac24]

TheCityGame, on 03 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I was really just trying to clear up what people mean by "no wrist hinge".

If JB Holmes in that video "very clearly" has a wrist hinge, or a "considerable" wrist hinge, then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like. I'm not saying anyone is wrong - - really, I'm just trying to nail down what some people mean by "no wrist hinge". Is there a video of it? Are there are pros who are "minimal hingers" vs. "maximal hingers" to get some idea of what we're talking about?

This guy comes up if you search "no wrist hinge golf swing", but he looks like he hinges more than JB; he just doesn't turn as far.

Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise.

[Jon Robert]

"Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise."He is on the PGA Tour so the argument that he has a terrible swing?...............not.

"then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like"
I think the wrist hinge is not best viewed from the top position. As another pointed out there has to be some movement due to physics. There is no either/or in this issue there are degrees of a wrist hinge or not.
I think the wrist hinge value shows up in the downswing lag position. The more a person hinges the wrists the more likely the lag and the better the quality of lag. The less a person hinges the wrist the less likely a quality lag. And of course the less the quality of lag the less quality of impact.

[KYMAR]

TheCityGame, on 03 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I was really just trying to clear up what people mean by "no wrist hinge".

If JB Holmes in that video "very clearly" has a wrist hinge, or a "considerable" wrist hinge, then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like. I'm not saying anyone is wrong - - really, I'm just trying to nail down what some people mean by "no wrist hinge". Is there a video of it? Are there are pros who are "minimal hingers" vs. "maximal hingers" to get some idea of what we're talking about?

This guy comes up if you search "no wrist hinge golf swing", but he looks like he hinges more than JB; he just doesn't turn as far.

I actually think he is demonstrating the "no back swing" golf swing. There is plenty of wrist hinge here and in JB;s swing. comparing him to john daly is like comparing veering and turning. they both go in a direction, just one more dramatically so.

[MonteScheinblum]

Jon Robert, on 03 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

"Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise."He is on the PGA Tour so the argument that he has a terrible swing?...............not.

"then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like"
I think the wrist hinge is not best viewed from the top position. As another pointed out there has to be some movement due to physics. There is no either/or in this issue there are degrees of a wrist hinge or not.
I think the wrist hinge value shows up in the downswing lag position. The more a person hinges the wrists the more likely the lag and the better the quality of lag. The less a person hinges the wrist the less likely a quality lag. And of course the less the quality of lag the less quality of impact.

LOL, He is not on the PGA Tour.  That is the club where I teach where all his videos are shot.

[hoganfan924]

MonteScheinblum, on 03 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Jon Robert, on 03 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

"Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise."He is on the PGA Tour so the argument that he has a terrible swing?...............not.

"then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like"
I think the wrist hinge is not best viewed from the top position. As another pointed out there has to be some movement due to physics. There is no either/or in this issue there are degrees of a wrist hinge or not.
I think the wrist hinge value shows up in the downswing lag position. The more a person hinges the wrists the more likely the lag and the better the quality of lag. The less a person hinges the wrist the less likely a quality lag. And of course the less the quality of lag the less quality of impact.

LOL, He is not on the PGA Tour.  That is the club where I teach where all his videos are shot.

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.  lol

I believe Jon was referring to JB Holmes while the rest of us were looking at that hideous video of some random guy with a "no hinge" swing.

[carrera]

This is a good overview of JB Holmes' swing.  Not much wrist set on the way back or at the top, but like a float loader he gets plenty/enough on the way down.

[larrybud]

If a player truly had zero wrist hinge, the angle between his left arm and shaft wouldn't change throughout the swing.  None of these players have zero wrist hinge, and no pga pro has ever had zero wrist hinge, or anything close to it.

[erock9174]

Stryker, on 30 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I setup with it lightly pressing against my left arm. A little different from what Martin Chuck recommends, but I play with a pretty strong grip. During the back swing I would try to keep that same pressure on my left arm while feeling it slide up the arm.

So essentually at address you have already pre-set your hinge (ie. hands forward with forward shaft lean)?
I thought this was bad for full shots and best for chipping the ball.

[MDP1555]

It is sort of funny, and sadly quite more common than should be, but did anyone else notice that the OP posted a rather silly or at least a very uninformed question about eliminating a function of the swing that all of us agree is a required function then never responded back to the thread at all?

This led to the thread to becoming a mutual admiration society looking at video to find  proof that a wrist set both required and natural. I suspect the OP abandoned this thread  after reading  only the first few replies if that, without really understanding what a wrist set is or what function it provides. Or possibly just posted and rather silly question just to see where it would go.

I see a bunch of these type threads each month. Threads where there is an obvious answer or and absolutely silly question and or statement posted, then the OP abandons the conversation once they have posted the question.

May be I am just old and grumpy sort, but does anyone apply common sense to think about their questions before they ask anymore?????
I have always one to believe that no question is a silly question, but suddenly I am beginning to wonder J
<LOL>

Edited by MDP1555, 04 December 2012 - 02:49 PM.

[govols]

erock9174, on 04 December 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Stryker, on 30 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I setup with it lightly pressing against my left arm. A little different from what Martin Chuck recommends, but I play with a pretty strong grip. During the back swing I would try to keep that same pressure on my left arm while feeling it slide up the arm.

So essentually at address you have already pre-set your hinge (ie. hands forward with forward shaft lean)?
I thought this was bad for full shots and best for chipping the ball.

Forward shaft lean is essential on all shots with all clubs at least to some degree or you're flipping or scooping at the ball. Most tour pros have a slightly cupped wrist at address & a flat wrist at impact which requires wrist hinge. Personally if I set up with my hands pressed forward its hard to get back to that position at impact & my hands wanna get flippy.

[Jon Robert]

MonteScheinblum, on 03 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Jon Robert, on 03 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

"Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise."He is on the PGA Tour so the argument that he has a terrible swing?...............not.

"then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like"
I think the wrist hinge is not best viewed from the top position. As another pointed out there has to be some movement due to physics. There is no either/or in this issue there are degrees of a wrist hinge or not.
I think the wrist hinge value shows up in the downswing lag position. The more a person hinges the wrists the more likely the lag and the better the quality of lag. The less a person hinges the wrist the less likely a quality lag. And of course the less the quality of lag the less quality of impact.

LOL, He is not on the PGA Tour.  That is the club where I teach where all his videos are shot.

I was referring to JB Holmes

[craniac24]

Jon Robert, on 04 December 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 03 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Jon Robert, on 03 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

"Aside from the fact that this is a terrible, terrible swing...he does in fact, hinge his wrists.  I'm not sure how one could argue otherwise."He is on the PGA Tour so the argument that he has a terrible swing?...............not.

"then I don't know what a "no wrist hinge" swing looks like"
I think the wrist hinge is not best viewed from the top position. As another pointed out there has to be some movement due to physics. There is no either/or in this issue there are degrees of a wrist hinge or not.
I think the wrist hinge value shows up in the downswing lag position. The more a person hinges the wrists the more likely the lag and the better the quality of lag. The less a person hinges the wrist the less likely a quality lag. And of course the less the quality of lag the less quality of impact.

LOL, He is not on the PGA Tour.  That is the club where I teach where all his videos are shot.

I was referring to JB Holmes

I wasn't.

[pcourtney]

Doug Tewell likens his technique to JB Holmes  ( does anyone know about his "Square to Square" teaching on DVD ) ???

http://tinyurl.com/apzxo5y

And I quote :

Won't a 3/4 Swing Make Me Lose Distance?
This is one of the biggest questions I get. And I always reference PGA pro J.B. Holmes...
J.B. is a classic example of a 3/4 swing player. His backswing never even comes close to parallel, and his wrist c0ck is virtually nonexistent. But he EXPLODES through the ball and smashes drives that makes everyone's jaws drop in amazement.

J.B. averages 309.7 yards on tour.
J.B. is consistently near the top of the Driving Distance rankings for the Tour, outpacing other younger, more nimble players with bigger turns. Yet J.B.'s 3/4 length swing STILL outdrives them. Why? Because he knows that a huge shoulder turn is NOT the key to big-time distance. There's more--MUCH more--involved. And in the Square-to-Square program, I'll reveal every little detail on how to not only keep your current distance--but possibly even ADD more yards. How does that grab you?