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Kbs c taper S+ or X

Irons fitting shafts kbs c taper advice

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#1 Bretterix

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!


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#2 craniac24

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

C-Taper S+ plays approximately the same stiffness as DG X100.  C-Taper in X flex is very, very stiff.

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#3 mjwidell

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

S+.  I have numbers very similar to yours and while I currently play the C Taper X (soft stepped once), I just swung the S+ and they have a much better feel.  I am installing them in my new set (as we speak)!  As many will tell you, no PGA Tour pro plays the X flex, they all go with the S+.
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#4 BogeyLJA

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

 mjwidell, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

S+.  I have numbers very similar to yours and while I currently play the C Taper X (soft stepped once), I just swung the S+ and they have a much better feel.  I am installing them in my new set (as we speak)!  As many will tell you, no PGA Tour pro plays the X flex, they all go with the S+.

Can you share the difference you've notice with the X and soft- stepping them... I'm this in camp too.

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#5 jack1123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

So the X100s would be comparable with S+? Are the launch characteristics between the two going to be that far apart? I would imagine pretty similar?

Edited by jack1123, 28 November 2012 - 08:10 PM.


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#6 JB lefty

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

If the tour guys are playing the S+ then the X flex must be just plain overkill. Most guys who swing the 6 iron at 94mph will use either x100 or or 6.5 maybe 7.0 in px. If the S+ caters for this group the why would they need an x flex. It would just seem the really would not be a market for them. Go with the S+ hard stepped.

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#7 kg92lefty

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

Depends on your transition and feel. Only way to find out is if you go hit them or get a demo club with each. The C-Taper X is like PX 7.0, ridiculously stiff and low spinning.

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#8 Dscvrr St Louis

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:20 PM

My 2cents...went from X100 to Ctaper X, a friend had them , hit them, loved them.  was on the fence as to S+ or X(maybe SS once or so), decided to go X straight in.  Yeah, they are stiffer 7.3 compared to 6.8 in the X100...but I will say this, I find them quite a bit easier to swing then the X100's...just the balance of the Ctaper is what makes them so smooth to me.  At my best, I am 92-94mph with a 6 iron...I went to X for consistency and dispersion, not yardage.  Ball flight came down, as did the spin and I gained a few yards as a result.

If you have a chance go to a GG in your area, they have the Ctaper X in the Taylormade fitting cart, or they should, and have them make up an MC or MB combo for you to hit...see for yourself how it feels.
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#9 Hstead

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:57 PM

I currently have S+ straight in at plus 1/2" longer than standard.  When I was fitted, I swung the 6 iron at 96 mph and my driver is around 118.  I have a softer transition according to Mizuno Optimizer.  

When I was fitted, the fitter only had S+ in 1/2" over so I didn't get to hit the X.  I personally liked the lighter feel of the 125g S+ vs the 130g X100 I was playing.  I played the X100 for over 20 years.  My launch and spin were slightly lower with the C-taper vs the PX and X100.  I was launching and spinning dead center of the Titleist chart, I think ball speed around 138, 16 launch and 5700 spin if I recall, something like that anyway.  That day I was carrying it around 180-ish according to Flight Scope.  I would occasionally pick up my X100 and HATED them after hitting C-tapers.  The X100 is a soft butt shaft and the C-taper is very stiff in the butt section.  For me, I like the firm grip end as I can feel where the club is better.  These feel so smooth for me that they almost feel like graphite.  

My fitter wanted me to go with the X.  I ended up calling KBS and asking a ton of questions and was told I was a "tweener" with my Mizuno numbers and SS, but they said almost all tour pros were using S+.  So I decided since they felt good, I liked the 125g vs 130 especially at plus 1/2", and they were dead center for according to Titleists chart, that I would go with the S+.  I do not like a shaft to be too stiff.

Now I am getting ready to buy a new set of Scratch and am going to a fitting Friday to hit multiple shafts.  I hope to hit an X C-taper, Modus 3, Nippon SP Blue, and Steelfiber in 110 and 95 s and X.  Hopefully that will answer all of my questions.  If I do decide I like the C-tapers the best, I will most likely hardstep the S one time which increases the flex by about 1/3, that way they are slightly stiffer yet still have the 125 gram lighter feel that I like.
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#10 drbonesvt

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:13 AM

I'm in the same boat as others here, quandary of s+ vs x

Anyone that went from x100 to s+, weight difference noticeable ?

Edited by drbonesvt, 29 November 2012 - 02:15 AM.

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#11 horty1388

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:11 AM

Swing my driver 120ish, used to play kbs tour black nickel X reg length, recently went to ctaper S+ and they feel fine but I play them 1/2" short in cmb's which might make them play a little stiffer?

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#12 Hstead

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:12 AM

 drbonesvt, on 29 November 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I'm in the same boat as others here, quandary of s+ vs x

Anyone that went from x100 to s+, weight difference noticeable ?

The weight difference is very noticeable and the balance makes a big difference too.  That is why I went with the S+ vs the X because the 5 gram lighter shaft feels so much better to me.  I am not sure how big a difference it would feel if you played standard length with the same swing weight in both, but at plus 1/2" it is a big difference.
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#13 kellygreen

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:40 AM

 Bretterix, on 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!

Get a couple old clubs and have a clubmaker put an S+ in one and an X in the other.

Because if you can play X100, you can play either flex.  The differences come down to what kind of ballflight, spin and feel you want.

I played X100s for years, and can overpower them a bit when I really step on a shot.  I tried the S+ and didn't particularly care for them.  I tried the X...and they were fantastic on full shots, but stiff and unresponsive on partial shots for me.   I also found that the X's too so much spin off the ball that my shots were losing a bit of stoping power.

I eventually went with PX 6.5, because they gave me the combination of accuracy and stopping power I wanted.  Had I stayed with the C-tapers I probably would have had the X's soft-stepped.

The C-tapers are really their own animal...and (imo) if you don't really take the tim to put the shaft through its paces, there's a good chance you will wind up in the wrong flex and get frustrated with them.   But (properly fitted) It's a great shaft.
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#14 driverwedge

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

 Bretterix, on 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!

First, welcome to the board!

I'm playing C Taper X in my 64s.  I have DG X7 in my 62s.  Played x100 as well.  C Taper X, as mentioned, is much stiffer than x100, but X100 is still lower flight.

When you say C Taper offers lower launch, spin, etc. what are you comparing it to?  Most folks think it's in relation to everything.  It's not.  They compare directly to the PX.  Are the C Taper lower launch/spin than PX?  Yep.  DG?  Not really (assuming similar flex).  I hit them side by side.  DG hits lower.  C Taper hits higher (than DG).  I got similar distances with them (my 6i = 195+/-).  YMMV.  While anyone can play it, the C Taper is specifically meant for people with a more aggressive transition.  When using the Mizzy Optimizer, C Tapers only show up when the transition number is at 7 or over, regardless of swing speed.  It's obviously not telling you what MUST be done, it's just giving guidance.  The C Taper offers a "different" feel, and as you know, feel is completely subjective from person to person.  I may love it and you may hate it.  Hit everything you can (outdoors) and judge for yourself.  You may be surprised.

Best of luck!

Edited by driverwedge, 29 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.

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#15 Bretterix

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

 driverwedge, on 29 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

 Bretterix, on 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!

First, welcome to the board!

I'm playing C Taper X in my 64s.  I have DG X7 in my 62s.  Played x100 as well.  C Taper X, as mentioned, is much stiffer than x100, but X100 is still lower flight.

When you say C Taper offers lower launch, spin, etc. what are you comparing it to?  Most folks think it's in relation to everything.  It's not.  They compare directly to the PX.  Are the C Taper lower launch/spin than PX?  Yep.  DG?  Not really (assuming similar flex).  I hit them side by side.  DG hits lower.  C Taper hits higher (than DG).  I got similar distances with them (my 6i = 195+/-).  YMMV.  While anyone can play it, the C Taper is specifically meant for people with a more aggressive transition.  When using the Mizzy Optimizer, C Tapers only show up when the transition number is at 7 or over, regardless of swing speed.  It's obviously not telling you what MUST be done, it's just giving guidance.  The C Taper offers a "different" feel, and as you know, feel is completely subjective from person to person.  I may love it and you may hate it.  Hit everything you can (outdoors) and judge for yourself.  You may be surprised.

Best of luck!

Hey guys!

Thanks for all the input. Im gonna go with the s+'s. I just hit the x's, and they were very, very stiff. The distance numbers were the same, at 195-199. The x's i almost had to swing full. Where the s+ was a much smoother swing. The number on the monitors were very similar, with the x having obviously less spin. But this was very helpful.

Final Product, Adams CMB with s+ in the c tapers!

Thanks fellas.


15

#16 Bretterix

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:18 PM

 kellygreen, on 29 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

 Bretterix, on 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!

Get a couple old clubs and have a clubmaker put an S+ in one and an X in the other.

Because if you can play X100, you can play either flex.  The differences come down to what kind of ballflight, spin and feel you want.

I played X100s for years, and can overpower them a bit when I really step on a shot.  I tried the S+ and didn't particularly care for them.  I tried the X...and they were fantastic on full shots, but stiff and unresponsive on partial shots for me.   I also found that the X's too so much spin off the ball that my shots were losing a bit of stoping power.

I eventually went with PX 6.5, because they gave me the combination of accuracy and stopping power I wanted.  Had I stayed with the C-tapers I probably would have had the X's soft-stepped.

The C-tapers are really their own animal...and (imo) if you don't really take the tim to put the shaft through its paces, there's a good chance you will wind up in the wrong flex and get frustrated with them.   But (properly fitted) It's a great shaft.

I had a lot of interest in the px 6.5. Still do. Heard the feel wasn't as good. That's not very important to me.That's the only knock on them I've heard.

16

#17 Dscvrr St Louis

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:51 PM

You will love that CMB head in the Ctaper...just magic feeling when pured and still not bad when missed...but you will KNOW when you miss them!! Great clubs!
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#18 kellygreen

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:00 AM

 Bretterix, on 29 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

 kellygreen, on 29 November 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

 Bretterix, on 28 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Hey guys.

So I need some help. I've been researching this for the past 2 hours, and haven't come to a conclusion. I'm interested in the KBS c-tapers. Probably stock in the Adams CMB, or specially ordered from Titleist in some CBs or MBs. I just dunno what flex I need. Currently I feel really underflexed. I have ap2's with s300s. I've had x100s prior which were much better, very good actually. I still hit a high ball either way. Which was why I was interested in the C tapers. I hit a friend's 6 iron with an x shaft (probably say an x100) about 190-195 (96-97ish mph CS) routinely. My current 6 i have to play about 180-185 because it just balloons. My driver SS normally around 116-117, and I can get more if i need to (that's probably irrelevant). The point is I know the c tapers offer a lower launch, spin, and a few extra yards, which is what I would need. I was set on just grabbing the x's (everything in my bagged I've just grabbed an x and worked out fine for me), but the more research I've done the S+'s seem safer. It seems as if the C taper x's might be like just swinging your closest telephone poll :taunt:

Thoughts much appreciated!!

Thanks

-PS, I just made his account a few mins ago because the feedback is better on here than any golf resource I've ever seen!

Get a couple old clubs and have a clubmaker put an S+ in one and an X in the other.

Because if you can play X100, you can play either flex.  The differences come down to what kind of ballflight, spin and feel you want.

I played X100s for years, and can overpower them a bit when I really step on a shot.  I tried the S+ and didn't particularly care for them.  I tried the X...and they were fantastic on full shots, but stiff and unresponsive on partial shots for me.   I also found that the X's too so much spin off the ball that my shots were losing a bit of stoping power.

I eventually went with PX 6.5, because they gave me the combination of accuracy and stopping power I wanted.  Had I stayed with the C-tapers I probably would have had the X's soft-stepped.

The C-tapers are really their own animal...and (imo) if you don't really take the tim to put the shaft through its paces, there's a good chance you will wind up in the wrong flex and get frustrated with them.   But (properly fitted) It's a great shaft.

I had a lot of interest in the px 6.5. Still do. Heard the feel wasn't as good. That's not very important to me.That's the only knock on them I've heard.

Feel is in the eye of the beholder.

The PX is much like the C-taper X, in that it was designed to be "butt-stiff"  and favor the player with a more aggressive transition and late release.  Because of this, they tend to play about a half-a-flex stiff based on frequency.   So (compared to the original Rifle shafts they were based upon) the PX 6.5 plays to about a 7.0...and is therefore slightly stiffer than X100.  So what often happens is that players wind up buying shafts that are too stiff for them, because they don't realize this.

That is where most of the complaints about feel come from.  Players who try to play these shafts without being able to load them properly.  Their transition isn't strong enough, their release late enough either for the shaft in general....or for the flex they've purchased.  So they complain about the shaft feeling "boardy" or the feedback "harsh".

Put in the hands of the right player, and playing the right flex....they feel everybit as good as C-taper X or the original Rifle shaft.  The feedback on off-center hits is more vivid than these other shafts, or X100, but that is easily adjusted to.

I settled on the PX because it gave me the tight dispersion, some of the stability in the wind that the C-taper has....but left enough spin on the ball to make it easier to shape shots, and keep the stopping power of my iron shots.  My swing path is shallow, so I don't generate an excessive amount of spin on my shots.
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#19 drbonesvt

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

 mjwidell, on 28 November 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

S+.  I have numbers very similar to yours and while I currently play the C Taper X (soft stepped once), I just swung the S+ and they have a much better feel.  I am installing them in my new set (as we speak)!  As many will tell you, no PGA Tour pro plays the X flex, they all go with the S+.

how did the sx1 ctaper x feel to a x100?  The S+ are that much better than the ctaperx's?  Any shaft remorse
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#20 JB lefty

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

Are the C tapers a butt stiff shaff shaft? I thought PX was?

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#21 kg92lefty

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

 JB lefty, on 05 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

Are the C tapers a butt stiff shaff shaft? I thought PX was?

Not as butt stiff as PX but more so than DG.

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#22 Hstead

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

I think they feel similar stiffness in the butt section, way stiffer than the DG.
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#23 JDorfler

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

Get fit. You should always go with the lightest flex possible for your swing.

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#24 marshallbarnes

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:42 PM

Just went and got fit today, Choice between C Taper X, DG x100, and PX 6.5, I picked the C Taper in my new AP2/MB combo simply due to they felt smoother through impact than the x100. Just my 2 cents

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#25 scratches

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:47 PM

I've been playing c taper S+ soft stepped for 2 months now. I agree with the people saying these shafts are NOT harsh or boardy. If they feel harsh or boardy you probably have the wrong flex or you don't load the shafts right and you picked the wrong shaft for your swing type. KB says these shafts are meant for 10% or less of the golf population. Swallow your pride when going into the fitting session for c tapers. Most people go down a flex. I played X100's for years. No shame in going down a flex. PGA Players use S+ flex too.


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#26 BigHook25

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:25 AM

Probably safest bet is S+.  The X is very, very stiff and the S+ plays plenty stiff for the vast majority of people.  The X is almost overkill.  No place had the S+ when I was trying so I tried both the S and X.  The X was only good when going full at it, not when you choked down and wanted to take something off, while the S was good on smooth swings for me but felt like too much spin when I went at it.  Unless your swinging 100+ with a 6-iron and have a very harsh transition, I would lean towards the S+.

Also you won't notice the 5 grams from 130 to 125.  I know some said they did, but I never noticed.

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#27 btcus

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 08:40 PM

 Dscvrr St Louis, on 28 November 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

My 2cents...went from X100 to Ctaper X, a friend had them , hit them, loved them.  was on the fence as to S+ or X(maybe SS once or so), decided to go X straight in.  Yeah, they are stiffer 7.3 compared to 6.8 in the X100...but I will say this, I find them quite a bit easier to swing then the X100's...just the balance of the Ctaper is what makes them so smooth to me.  At my best, I am 92-94mph with a 6 iron...I went to X for consistency and dispersion, not yardage.  Ball flight came down, as did the spin and I gained a few yards as a result.

If you have a chance go to a GG in your area, they have the Ctaper X in the Taylormade fitting cart, or they should, and have them make up an MC or MB combo for you to hit...see for yourself how it feels.

I know this thread is old but I have been researching this for some time and came to a decision recently and thought I would share.  

I am a long time DGx100 user and was confident that the C Taper S or S+ would be my go to shaft.   after hitting all the shafts the X were by far the best feeling, smoothest and had the best results from a ball flight and distance perspective.  I came into the fitting not even considering the CT X but in the end they were clearly the best.   I also choose to soft step them in my wedges (ie 8 iron shaft).

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#28 The General

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:06 PM

anybody tipping the S+ shafts, or putting them straight in?

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