64 replies to this topic

[inpresX]

I saw an immediate problem with how this new rule will be enforced when I saw this picture:



Only the user can tell if that top forearm is actually touching the body. This goes to show this IS the dumbest rule proposed by the USGA.

[Vindog]

shhh....  Don't give them any ideas between now and 2016!!!!

[Dire Wolf]

If you don't want to get penalized, make it obvious that you're not anchoring.  Not that hard to figure out.

Is it obvious when a player causes his ball to move a few millimeters?  Do we know for sure what "intent" means in all cases?

The rules are not black and white as written.  That's why an enormous decisions book comes out every 2 years, and why rules officials patrol the course at tournaments of all kinds.

[ragweed10]

First off I think over 18 holes the people in your group would be able to tell if you are or not anchoring the putter, plus if you are playing in events that this would really matter and you are pushing the rule that close; I think you would get tired of constantly getting in arguments with fellow competitors that might call you on it.

[307golf]

IIRC, the elbow may be anchored against the thorax, but not the forearm.  Correct?

This is going to be very interesting on the enforcement end of things.  The line between following the rule, or not, is a bit blurry and will be difficult for the golfing public to understand/enforce.

[inpresX]

The only way I can see this rule being completely enforced is if players are required to wear sensors on their forearm that can detect it being pressed against the body.

Even if they had refs watching closely, they won't be able to tell with certainty.

[Vindog]

307golf, on 28 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

IIRC, the elbow may be anchored against the thorax, but not the forearm.  Correct?

This is going to be very interesting on the enforcement end of things.  The line between following the rule, or not, is a bit blurry and will be difficult for the golfing public to understand/enforce.

As it is proposed, anchoring the forearm is a no-no.  Triceps side of the forearm seems to be okay, but then you may be exiting the realm of usefulness.

[mwkbmw]

inpresX, on 28 November 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

The only way I can see this rule being completely enforced is if players are required to wear sensors on their forearm that can detect it being pressed against the body.

Even if they had refs watching closely, they won't be able to tell with certainty.

Hopefully, most golfers, especially professionals, would treat this rule with the same respect and integrity as all others. I hate playing from divots in the middle of the fairway, but I do it anyway. It's the rule.

[SHIVAN]

It's a gentlemen's game, where we call infractions of the rules on ourselves.

[inpresX]

I have a feeling most people won't treat this rule with the same respect as other rules.

[spitfisher]

For belly putters will they force players to wear navy blue or black shirts and then Dip the end of the putter shaft in flour to determine if its anchored?

seems only fair.

[inpresX]

Powder could inadvertently get on the shirt during address. I'm telling you we need sensors on forearms and grip butts to tell if anchoring is happening during the stroke.

[avrag]

inpresX, I think you are correct.
Enforcing this will be a nightmare. This is the case with every rule or law which is passed because of a swift, not thought-out, knee-jerk reaction to public opinion.
My legal English is not good enough to know, if there is an English word for that phenomenon. In German, it is called "Anlassgesetzgebung". It basically means that there is an event, or a few events which lead a real or perceived majority of the public to believe that certain laws should be changed. In a knee-jerk reaction, lawmakers do exactly that, very quickly, without pondering all the effects the change might have and without really thinking about alternatives. It usually leads to tinkering with this rule for years to come, because it's full effects were not thought about beforehand.
US sportsfans have recently seen a perfect example of such a rule in the NFL. I am talking about the review rule. I am certain that for the NFL rules committee, everything seemed fine, when they thought "Coaches are using the challenge to delay the game and challenge even when there is an automatic review anyway. Well, let's just take away that option".  Fail.
I am really looking forward to all of the controvery Rule 14-1b will create if it actually comes into effect with the wording of the current proposal.
There is so much about it which will be almost impossible to prove, I honestly can't think why anybody with the least bit of legal knowledge (and I am sure that there are lawyers in the R&A) could ever imagine that this rule will work.

Edited by avrag, 28 November 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[rockinar]

It will strictly be up to people watching the tournament on TV to watch for, and call in if they see an infraction of the rule.

[bullie76]

Yeah, get ready for more TV viewer call ins.

Edited by bullie76, 28 November 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Awsi Dooger]

I mentioned that problematic issue months ago. I have a 52 inch long putter that I don't use often but I have experimented anchoring and not anchoring. With a loose shirt, and leaning over naturally, the shirt might be several inches from the chest with the butt of the grip, and other parts of the grip, touching the shirt but not close to the chest. The user can tell it's not anchored but viewers, spectators and playing partners might be cynical and have the opposite conclusion.

Adam Scott leans over quite a bit. It would be simple for him to have the butt a half inch or so from the chest but viewers convinced it's still anchored.

In my case, anchoring doesn't accomplish a darn thing. I have left hand yips, which are fairly rare. The back of my left hand wants to twitch at impact, particularly when it's connected to the right hand during a righthanded stroke. When the hands are separated the yips are severely diminished, to the point of non existent. I want the right hand controlling the action and the left hand mostly going along for the ride. I don't care if it's anchored or not. It actually feels much more athletic and confident when it's not anchored, as I've mentioned previously.

[JRS]

not only is the rule ambiguous, i feel that anchoring is not a significant factor in reducing the skill of putting versus the effect of comedy oversized putter heads. i would much rather see a rule limiting the face to trailing edge measurement to 1.000 inches.

of course that would render 9 out of 10  recreational golfers putters illegal. imagine the uproar. i think the horse has well and truly bolted on that issue sadly.

[imakaveli]

Will the large shirts go back being cool on the Tour with this rule?

[avrag]

imakaveli, on 29 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Will the large shirts go back being cool on the Tour with this rule?

Yes. Paul Goydos will suddenly be the trendsetter for clothing style on tour.

[whatagaff]

avrag, I believe the word you are looking for could be spatchcock. Close enough in any case. http://phrontistery..../favourite.html

[inpresX]

imakaveli, on 29 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Will the large shirts go back being cool on the Tour with this rule?

Or they could be required to wear cycling jerseys so the forearm to body contact is visible.

[tembolo1284]

Enforcement of the No Anchoring Rule -> Shotgun.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

I don't believe a Pro or Amateur, competing in a tournament, will act in a way that brings this rule into question.

[cardoustie]

I posted a similar question in another thread about where does the measurement for Kuchar length putters go to?  Not shown graphically anywhere

Bicep?  Elbow? Where is the elbow joint?  What if you grip down and knock in a short one?  Now you can't grip down?

I want to know so I can play around with one of my three long putters this winter

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

cardoustie, on 29 November 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I posted a similar question in another thread about where does the measurement for Kuchar length putters go to?  Not shown graphically anywhere

Bicep?  Elbow? Where is the elbow joint?  What if you grip down and knock in a short one?  Now you can't grip down?

I want to know so I can play around with one of my three long putters this winter

At the end of the Elbow

[kellygreen]

inpresX, on 28 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I saw an immediate problem with how this new rule will be enforced when I saw this picture:



Only the user can tell if that top forearm is actually touching the body. This goes to show this IS the dumbest rule proposed by the USGA.

Now you understand why so many of us have been against this rule from the moment it was suggested.

It's stupid.  It's arbitrary...and it will be almost impossible to enforce.

[imakaveli]

inpresX, on 29 November 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

imakaveli, on 29 November 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Will the large shirts go back being cool on the Tour with this rule?

Or they could be required to wear cycling jerseys so the forearm to body contact is visible.

"Ok everyone, please dress up like Ben Crane in golf boyz. Tiger stop complaining, this stupid ban was your idea."

Edit: grammar

Edited by imakaveli, 01 December 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[pgarob]

For me, I just can't see any guys keeping the longer putters and no anchor them.  The grief they will get from media, in the locker room, etc will be brutal.  Imagine a guy wins a major, and uses a long putter not anchored?  A ton of talk would go to that.  And worse, imagine if a guy like Webb or Adam Scott won the Masters next year with the long putter.  Nobody will talk about the great shots they hit, just the putter they used to win with.

[inpresX]

That's the exact reason why the rules cycle is so cruel. How can players continue to play with the anchor if they know it will become illegal in the future? They will play worse for sure with that mindset.

[inpresX]

The guy from the USGA was saying yesterday that they could implement the rule faster if people are in support of it. So much for the rules cycle.