465 replies to this topic

[jwfgolfpro]

Dear John,

As many of you are aware, earlier today the USGA and the R&A released their statement and position on a proposed change to the Rules of Golf that would, if formally adopted, result in a ban related to anchoring a putter or, for that matter, any golf club. This revision to the Rules would go into effect as of January 1, 2016. The statement also indicated that there is a comment period that will extend through February 28, 2013.

Click here to read a letter dated November 27, 2012, that I sent, as the President of The PGA of America, to USGA President Glen Nager and Executive Director Mike Davis in advance of their official statement. In addition, click here to view the USGA's official statement that was released today.

As you will see upon review of my letter, we respectfully recognized the crucial and historical role the USGA plays in writing and interpreting the Rules of Golf. However, we also set forth our position on this issue as we believe it may have a negative impact on the growth of the game and, as importantly, the ability of people to enjoy the game.

You will also see where we referenced the poll conducted last week of you, our PGA members, highlighting the extremely high participation rate (roughly 16% or 4,228 of our membership) which illustrates the importance of this issue. Nearly two thirds of the respondents indicated that they do not favor a ban.

As your elected leadership, we are well aware of our role in representing your interests in the industry and our mission to take and pursue the necessary steps and actions needed to grow the game that we all serve. At this stage, based on the discussions we have had with the USGA, as well as a series of presentations that they have made to us, there does not appear to be any data that suggests that anchoring a golf club results in an unfair advantage. As I stated in my letter to the USGA, in the absence of such data and based on our polling and all of the exciting progress our industry has made through Golf 2.0 and other related initiatives to make the game more fun and, quite frankly, more enjoyable and welcoming to a broader and more diverse audience, we have respectfully requested that the USGA and the R&A consider our concerns during this key comment period.

We want you to be aware of the USGA's position and our written statement to them. We intend to monitor this situation very closely and will continue to have in depth discussions with the USGA and other key entities, including the PGA Tour.

Lastly, we welcome any comments or concerns you may have. We, the 27,000 PGA men and women around the United States, are on the front lines of the game and, therefore, we believe it is imperative that our collective voice be heard in regard to this crucial issue.

Very truly yours,


Ted Bishop, PGA
38th President
The PGA of America


The PGA of America
100 Avenue of the Champions
Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33418

JWFGOLFPRO

[Willie Malay]

Mike Davis was very defensive with his answers today in my opinion and at one time could be heard tapping on his desk to drive home a point. That isn't good form by someone in his position. This decision is decades too late. It's obvious "grandfathering" is a term they don't understand. They should have made a ruling on this a long, long, long time ago.

[richard t]

I believe in fairness, I believe in and know the rules. I DO NOT like or use a belly/long putter. Now, +1000 on the above. Any reasonable person knows the time to take action is before the 'ole horse is out of the barn.' USGA seems happy to be 'a day late and a dollar short' on most decisions. I play with some guys who use the belly and the long putters. They don't win any more money than the rest of us. As for the pros, just because these putters won three majors this past summer does not mean they are going to dominate/rule the game. I'll bet on Ben Crenshaw any day of the week vs any Belly/long pro! There have been belly/long putters around for a long while and they've won how much? The USGA went ballistic over the Eye2s. How much did they (Eye2s) dominate?  Recently, Square Grooves? When I'm watching the pros still seem to be able to 'back it up' and 'stop it on a dime.'  Never thought I'd say this, but maybe it's time to have different rules for different levels. If not mistaken almost every other sport does. ( High School, College, Pros) Does not seem to change the enjoyment folks get from the rules at their level. To those who disagree. I say win me over with some cold, hard evidence these putters are unfair and will ruin the game.

[bullie76]

richard t, on 28 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I believe in fairness, I believe in and know the rules. I DO NOT like or use a belly/long putter. Now, +1000 on the above. Any reasonable person knows the time to take action is before the 'ole horse is out of the barn.' USGA seems happy to be 'a day late and a dollar short' on most decisions. I play with some guys who use the belly and the long putters. They don't win any more money than the rest of us. As for the pros, just because these putters won three majors this past summer does not mean they are going to dominate/rule the game. I'll bet on Ben Crenshaw any day of the week vs any Belly/long pro! There have been belly/long putters around for a long while and they've won how much? The USGA went ballistic over the Eye2s. How much did they (Eye2s) dominate?  Recently, Square Grooves? When I'm watching the pros still seem to be able to 'back it up' and 'stop it on a dime.'  Never thought I'd say this, but maybe it's time to have different rules for different levels. If not mistaken almost every other sport does. ( High School, College, Pros) Does not seem to change the enjoyment folks get from the rules at their level. To those who disagree. I say win me over with some cold, hard evidence these putters are unfair and will ruin the game.

Agree. Make golf fun for the average golfer. Crazy to be rolling it back for weekend golfers at this point.

[tnord]

ban that junk!

the common response i've heard from keegan, webb, etc, is to "look at the stats" and you won't see that long putters are dominating the tour or really make someone a good putter.  so then the reverse must be true as well, if they don't help you then it won't hurt you to go back to a conventional putter either.  suck it up.

[richard t]

Bullie76- An EXCELLENT point! If Adam Scott needs a new, shorter Cameron ole Scotty will fix him right up. What about Johnny Parsaver who spent $300.00 + for his? Is the USGA going to replace all bell/long putters for folks who bought them ( and not just in the last year). We know the answer to that!

[Ezgolfer]

Disappointed by the PGA....

[cb24]

tnord, on 28 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

ban that junk!

the common response i've heard from keegan, webb, etc, is to "look at the stats" and you won't see that long putters are dominating the tour or really make someone a good putter.  so then the reverse must be true as well, if they don't help you then it won't hurt you to go back to a conventional putter either.  suck it up.

thats my thinking as well.  If it doesnt help you then it wont hurt you to not use it.  Pretty simple if it were true, but clearly it helps them.

[sunbeltgolfer]

The comment period will be interesting to watch and see if any changes to the proposed rule are made. I play on a senior mini tour, use a traditional putter, and, don't have a problem with people, especially recreational golfers, being able to use putters with an anchored stroke. Others will disagree, but, I think the PGA has made a good point when it relates to the recreational player.

[oldflgolfer]

Applaud the PGA membership


I used PING wedges for twenty years....then suddenly they they are illegal

I started using a long putter in 2006 to help combat psoriatic arthritis.....now, yet again the USGA has decided that I'm doing sonething illegal for 7yrs

I'm 43 yrs old & was pretty excited to start playing in mid-senior events but I dunno about even playing golf yet alone paying dues to the USGA


Not a smart decision whatsoever

[bajadock]

The USGA and R&A can pat themselves on the back for the "traditions" of the game.  If there is no set-aside for amateurs on anchored putting, more golf play will be discouraged.

Play by the same rules?  94.3% of golfers don't play by the rules, from my 30 year scientific statistical study.  And what are the 3-6 different tee markers for if we "all play the same game"???

If the USGA, R&A, PGA and other golf supporting org's wanted to grow the game, they would SIMPLIFY the rules down to 20 or less that could be printed on one side of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper.

[HoosierMizuno]

Willie Malay, on 28 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Mike Davis was very defensive with his answers today in my opinion and at one time could be heard tapping on his desk to drive home a point. That isn't good form by someone in his position. This decision is decades too late. It's obvious "grandfathering" is a term they don't understand. They should have made a ruling on this a long, long, long time ago.

Agreed, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't have still made the change. the biggest issue i have with davis is the way he acted like it wasn't a problem when a handful of players used it but now it has their attention because players are drastically turning towards this method. he's in his position because he's supposed to be smart enough to ban this from the start.

it was cheating then, looks horrible, and gives people the question of whether a win is legit because they took nerves out of a stroke. davis and the rest of the guys in charge need to be a little more forward thinking. they can start with not waiting another 10 years to start questioning the ball.

[HoosierMizuno]

bajadock, on 28 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

If the USGA, R&A, PGA and other golf supporting org's wanted to grow the game, they would SIMPLIFY the rules down to 20 or less that could be printed on one side of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper.

THIS!!

i don't believe the ban will affect players leaving the game or entering. if they want to 'grow' the game, start with the rulebook and costs of the game. with the economy how do we replace anyone who's left the game when its so costly to play a round. how can kids afford to get out and play if they aren't born into a country club membership. the game isn't going to grow when economy declines and costs increase

[prsgtrman]

cant everyone use the belly putter? its not like the putter was only made to a handful of ppl or they were grandfathered in by their use. usga dealt themselves a blow on a relatively unimportant issue. balls and drivers have changed the game 10 fold to the belly putter. courses have had to be redesigned and lengthened due to those advancements.

[tnord]

oldflgolfer, on 28 November 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Applaud the PGA membership


I used PING wedges for twenty years....then suddenly they they are illegal

I started using a long putter in 2006 to help combat psoriatic arthritis.....now, yet again the USGA has decided that I'm doing sonething illegal for 7yrs

I'm 43 yrs old & was pretty excited to start playing in mid-senior events but I dunno about even playing golf yet alone paying dues to the USGA


Not a smart decision whatsoever

for an old man you sure are a big baby. you're going to quit the game entirely because you can't anchor it 3 years from now? give me a break.  you can still use the long putter, just not maybe not exactly how you do now.

i'm more likely to renew my USGA membership from last year because they finally did ban that nonsense.

Edited by tnord, 28 November 2012 - 08:58 PM.

[oldflgolfer]

tnord, on 28 November 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

oldflgolfer, on 28 November 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Applaud the PGA membership


I used PING wedges for twenty years....then suddenly they they are illegal

I started using a long putter in 2006 to help combat psoriatic arthritis.....now, yet again the USGA has decided that I'm doing sonething illegal for 7yrs

I'm 43 yrs old & was pretty excited to start playing in mid-senior events but I dunno about even playing golf yet alone paying dues to the USGA


Not a smart decision whatsoever

for an old man you sure are a big baby. you're going to quit the game entirely because you can't anchor it 3 years from now? give me a break.  you can still use the long putter, just not maybe not exactly how you do now.

i'm more likely to renew my USGA membership from last year because they finally did ban that nonsense.

That's your opinion....without name calling I have mine.

It's makes absolutely no sense to ban it now....and yes I don't need the USGA

I have worked in the golf industry for over 25 years +, put alot of hard work promoting the game, from bag boy to superintendent to golf pro, I have literally served this industry in every manner possible. I have always abided by rules, instructed youth on rules & etiquette, and held the game at it's highest honor. But of late, the USGA has made decisions that have quite literally effected MY game and I'm not too happy about it.

This industry is hurting....let's make a few more rules to shove potential players away

[Crab Daddy]

tnord, on 28 November 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

ban that junk!

the common response i've heard from keegan, webb, etc, is to "look at the stats" and you won't see that long putters are dominating the tour or really make someone a good putter.  so then the reverse must be true as well, if they don't help you then it won't hurt you to go back to a conventional putter either.  suck it up.

Simply saying that the reverse must be true is an argument that doesn't hold water. Anchoring the putter is a personal preference, like the claw grip or left-hand-low.  Pointing out that the stats don't show the long putter dominating golf supports the fact that it is a preference and not an unfair advantage.  It helps some, just like other unconventional grips help some, but not all.

[kygolfer]

Part of the reason given for the ruling was:  "Our conclusion is that the Rules of Golf should be amended to preserve the traditional character of the golf swing ...."

I can't think of anything that is less traditional to the character of the golf swing than the "claw grip."  In reality anchoring the forearm to the lower body was a part of the tradition of the game in putting before the modern putter stroke using the shoulders to control the motion.  This whole thing is a crock.  I also think it was incredibile that they turned to Tiger Woods for his input in this business.  Tiger is a competitor of those using the stroke that they were considering banning.  The whole matter was very poorly handled whether you agree or disagree with the decision.

[tnord]

the golf industry is here to serve the game of golf. golf (meaning USGA, R&A, PGA, etc) does not, and should not manage the game to serve the mfgs and support the industry on the pockets of the participants.

whether or not it is an unfair advantage is irrelevant. it is not a stroke and should not be allowed.

[Jamboy72]

tnord, on 28 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

the golf industry is here to serve the game of golf. golf (meaning USGA, R&A, PGA, etc) does not, and should not manage the game to serve the mfgs and support the industry on the pockets of the participants.

whether or not it is an unfair advantage is irrelevant. it is not a stroke and should not be allowed.

Right and you would think they may listen to their constituents and use that information to help them grow the game, protect the game, yada yada yada....but they aren't interested in what the masses think

[JB lefty]

I am happy to hear the USGA are doing something. It may not be seen as positive from most points of view but they are doing something. Its like the groove rule change. Not everyone was happy with it at first and now most of us have embraced it.
Getting rid of the long putters is a good thing in my opinion. The long putter was never in the true spirit of the game.

[Crab Daddy]

tnord, on 28 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

whether or not it is an unfair advantage is irrelevant. it is not a stroke and should not be allowed.

It was a stroke for almost 90 years. What changed?

[felchone]

HoosierMizuno, on 28 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Willie Malay, on 28 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Mike Davis was very defensive with his answers today in my opinion and at one time could be heard tapping on his desk to drive home a point. That isn't good form by someone in his position. This decision is decades too late. It's obvious "grandfathering" is a term they don't understand. They should have made a ruling on this a long, long, long time ago.

Agreed, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't have still made the change. the biggest issue i have with davis is the way he acted like it wasn't a problem when a handful of players used it but now it has their attention because players are drastically turning towards this method. he's in his position because he's supposed to be smart enough to ban this from the start.

it was cheating then, looks horrible, and gives people the question of whether a win is legit because they took nerves out of a stroke. davis and the rest of the guys in charge need to be a little more forward thinking. they can start with not waiting another 10 years to start questioning the ball.

Looks horrible????Compared to what? A 3 foot lip out?  Billy Mayfairs stroke with a short putter?  I've seen some horrendous things that would  fit the USGA definition of a stroke.....

[felchone]

felchone, on 28 November 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

HoosierMizuno, on 28 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Willie Malay, on 28 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Mike Davis was very defensive with his answers today in my opinion and at one time could be heard tapping on his desk to drive home a point. That isn't good form by someone in his position. This decision is decades too late. It's obvious "grandfathering" is a term they don't understand. They should have made a ruling on this a long, long, long time ago.

Agreed, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't have still made the change. the biggest issue i have with davis is the way he acted like it wasn't a problem when a handful of players used it but now it has their attention because players are drastically turning towards this method. he's in his position because he's supposed to be smart enough to ban this from the start.

it was cheating then, looks horrible, and gives people the question of whether a win is legit because they took nerves out of a stroke. davis and the rest of the guys in charge need to be a little more forward thinking. they can start with not waiting another 10 years to start questioning the ball.

Looks horrible????Compared to what? A 3 foot lip out?  Billy Mayfairs stroke with a short putter?  I've seen some horrendous things that would  fit the USGA definition of a stroke.....

Also, anyone claiming that a belly putter takes the nerves out of a stroke has never used one.  i can push or pull one just as easily with it anchored as i can with a short stick

[felchone]

JB lefty, on 28 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

I am happy to hear the USGA are doing something. It may not be seen as positive from most points of view but they are doing something. Its like the groove rule change. Not everyone was happy with it at first and now most of us have embraced it.
Getting rid of the long putters is a good thing in my opinion. The long putter was never in the true spirit of the game.

How can increasing ones enjoyment and possibly making the game more attractive to newbies, not be in the spirit of the game?  Come to think of it, what does "in the spirit of the game" even mean.  It's doubtful anyones been dialling up Old Tom Morris on the ouija board lately, so comments regarding the spirit should be withheld.  If you ask me, a beautiful morning or evening with some friends and a green lush fairway is "the spirit of the game" and it has nothing to do with how you role the rock

[Guia]

I think they are just posturing for the Pro's that anchor.  Of course they don't have to follow the USGA
or Royal, but they will.  

Personally, I am glad to see the anchored putters gone.  IMO, they are not keeping with the intent of the
game.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

I agree this rule seems to be way to late. I can't remember a time when the PGA  spoke out against the USGA so there is some significance in that.  What happens to the stock on the shelves of all the pro owned shops?  Who is going to eat that.

[Jodymac]

The bottom line is no matter what type of putter you use the ball must go in the cup!  If anchoring the putter was such a huge advantage many more pros would have already switched.   I don't see any reason to ban something that can be used equally by everyone if they choose to do so.  Are the powers that be going to ban left hand low or the claw grip?  Aren't these grips used mainly in an attempt to take the hands and or nerves out of the putting stroke?    Why not ban Mickelson's 64 degree wedge?  Phil has long been known as the best pitcher and chipper on tour.  He could even be deemed as dominate in that portion of the game.  But yet we still don't see very many 64 degree wedges used on tour because it comes down to personal preference just as the putters do.  The long putters are available to everyone, if they truly made putting that much easier every player on tour would have had one years ago.

[rony]

I am not a big fan of belly putters or broom handle putters.  I also feel that the USGA and R&A should have the final word in matters such as these in golf.  What I do not understand is why (As others have mentioned) they waited so long to do anything about this.  By not making a stand against anchoring long ago, they have caused this to be a bigger problem than it should be.  They will now have to deal with this for a long period of time.  People are understandably very upset.

[RookieBlue7]

For those that are complaining.  Show me stats that prove the putters are less effective when they're not anchored(and when you do, you'll be providiing data to prove that anchoring provides an advantage with that type of putter, so you'll be hurting your case).  The putters will still be legal, and the USGA doesn't owe you any replacement.  Also, show me how this adversely effects the growth of the game because a group of those that play are using them.  It doesn't, but it's a good excuse to try to use.  Face it, this is final, anchoring is banned, and you can still use your long putter or belly length putter, just don't anchor them.