608 replies to this topic

[tembolo1284]

So I went out to get my swing filmed and saw 3-4 things I did not like. Wanted to get some advice from you guys on what I could do to help fix these things.  I'll address them in the order of what I think are easiest to correct to the hardest.

1) I see almost immediately at the start of my swing I come off the tushline and go toward the ball and then just stay there. I think this happens because I used to be a huge roll release push drawer and used to address the ball off the toe a bit to allow for this. I still address the ball this way. I will just start hitting balls addressing the ball off the sweet spot...which will make me stand a bit closer to the ball. I'm hoping to stay on the tushline or push my hips through the line further away from the ball with time.

2) My swing is long and I feel i'm over-rotated. I'm currently working on stabilizing my left knee and slightly narrowing my stance (most obvious from front view).  I think this will automatically force me to lessen my shoulder turn and swing, and help alleviate the across the line position and hopefully my super deep right elbow to an extent.


3) I don't like that my head and upper body seem to kind of tilt back to the target during the backswing. You can see I try to set up on an angle away from the target, and right before and during my backswing I actually see I c0ck my head and upper body back to the target a bit. I think this is mostly started from my head...so I'll just hit a lot of 9-3s and slowly work that out of my system.

4) This is probably going to be the hardest thing to fix, as I think I do it as a direct result of where I am in my backswing. I see in the beginning stages of my downswing I actually am forced to internally rotate my right arm which forces the club to almost come over the top so I can get my right elbow back somewhat in front of me. As is clear, however, I don't manage to get it into enough of a pitch elbow position. I still manage to have some external rotation late in the downswing and manage to shallow out the club just enough to hit it from a decent position, but I feel all this extra crap movement from the top of the swing is just me doing gymnastics as a result of my crappy top of the backswing position. This is my greatest concern. I know if I work on this now from my overswing and deep elbow position, I'll get the club too far behind me and be stuck. So I definitely want to work on this last.  My hope is as I improve 2 and 3 above I'll feel tighter and will be able to fire right away and begin turning rather than sliding a bit and waiting on my right arm to get in front of me before I can begin turning.


Front view 6i:

Dtl view 6i:

[MonteScheinblum]

Try narrowing your stance and bending over more at the waist/hips.

Then find a feel that gets you in a better place at the top (which you be in a better place to get to with setup adjustments).

Try getting a sense your right elbow points more toward the ball longer in he back swing.

[tembolo1284]

MonteScheinblum, on 27 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Try narrowing your stance and bending over more at the waist/hips.

Then find a feel that gets you in a better place at the top (which you be in a better place to get to with setup adjustments).

Try getting a sense your right elbow points more toward the ball longer in he back swing.

Thanks Monte! Will give that a try.

[Daniel Eason]

I'm not a pro so this may be useful however not articulated well

Hip sway is a root problem causing the overswing, goto 12 seconds on the first video and your left leg should hopefully paint a picture. To remediate you need to work on the pivot more and apply preassure on the glutes, one move i've used to feel like this is to in the backswing try to keep pushing the pelvis as far back as possible, this will stablise the hips i think.

Bring the ball back as well, you have it way too far forward.

[kellygreen]

.

What I see is a pretty solid "one-plane/body-rotation" swing....but one where the foundation is a bit shaky.  By that I mean that your knees kind of wander around.  Both in the backswing and the down swing...and a lot of that may be in an effort to control the release of your club.    You've got a strong grip, and you drive your legs and toe-out your left foot in an effor to keep the club from closing on the downswing.

You can fix your foundation problem...but my concern is that(if you do) you're going to see the "lefts" come back into your game.   Nick Faldo had a wonderful image to work from to address unstable knees.  He said, "You want to turn your upper body against the resistance of your lower body.  So that it moves only when being PULLED around by the upper body.   So imagine that you are standing in wet cement up to your waist, and that you are trying make your backswing.   With the wet cement resisting any motion of the lower body.

As a drill he would also make backswings while holding a beach-ball sized object between his knees.   The need to keep the ball in place helps to quiet the lower body action.

But you may also want to consider narrowing your stance a bit, and moving your ball position back as well.

[tembolo1284]

kellygreen, on 28 November 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

.

What I see is a pretty solid "one-plane/body-rotation" swing....but one where the foundation is a bit shaky.  By that I mean that your knees kind of wander around.  Both in the backswing and the down swing...and a lot of that may be in an effort to control the release of your club. You've got a strong grip, and you drive your legs and toe-out your left foot in an effor to keep the club from closing on the downswing.

You can fix your foundation problem...but my concern is that(if you do) you're going to see the "lefts" come back into your game.   Nick Faldo had a wonderful image to work from to address unstable knees.  He said, "You want to turn your upper body against the resistance of your lower body.  So that it moves only when being PULLED around by the upper body.   So imagine that you are standing in wet cement up to your waist, and that you are trying make your backswing.   With the wet cement resisting any motion of the lower body.

As a drill he would also make backswings while holding a beach-ball sized object between his knees.   The need to keep the ball in place helps to quiet the lower body action.

But you may also want to consider narrowing your stance a bit, and moving your ball position back as well.

i like the beach ball idea. That's exactly what I have done in the past to quiet my crazy knee action. Thank you sir!

[tembolo1284]

Daniel Eason, on 28 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

I'm not a pro so this may be useful however not articulated well

Hip sway is a root problem causing the overswing, goto 12 seconds on the first video and your left leg should hopefully paint a picture. To remediate you need to work on the pivot more and apply preassure on the glutes, one move i've used to feel like this is to in the backswing try to keep pushing the pelvis as far back as possible, this will stablise the hips i think.

Bring the ball back as well, you have it way too far forward.

I like the deep hips image. It's exactly what i'm trying to do. I want to push back and open my right hip as much as I can.

[Daniel Eason]

I was amazed the difference working the pelvic back worked, I found it hard to get a feeling on how to avoid doing what you do as i've been working on it for a while, when reviewing video side on I tried keeping the knee straight but it just didn't work and I just hip thrusted, and I think the feedback I got from video was creating an optical illusion of end result.

I would also try working more on glutes down the gym, MyTPI have 100's of workouts to do for this.

[russc]

Stance is too wide.Still should have more weight on your left foot than your right at setup.The triangle of your arms and the shaft  changes too much too early,too much hand action early in your swing .The hands should only hold onto the club at this point.Triangle should remain intact until about 7:00..All of this leads to  not retaining the slight spine tilt that you established at address.Because you do this your weight is loading more toward your middle right than into your your left . These contribute to being too steep going down and a considerable lateral drive by your left knee in the downswing.You  need only enough lateral drive going down to establish your left pivot point over your  left heel /ankle.Any more will detract from your rotation going down.
Place  a  1 lb dumbbell  directly behind the club and sweep it away going back.You might want to place a  1/2 shaft just outside  your left knee at  setup  and avoid hitting during your downswing.Practice the depth of turn drill

Edited by russc, 28 November 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[SunkTheBirdie]

I agree with the wide stance and disco knees.
The backswing seems very rushed to me. Relax !  
To control your swing ... I've heard people shouldn't swing more than 90%.
You look like you are moving at 99.5%.

Here's your impact.
Not bad !
 impact.gWRX.golfer.jpg   86.52K   34 downloads

[tembolo1284]

SunkTheBirdie, on 28 November 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

I agree with the wide stance and disco knees.
The backswing seems very rushed to me. Relax !  
To control your swing ... I've heard people shouldn't swing more than 90%.
You look like you are moving at 99.5%.

Here's your impact.
Not bad !
impact.gWRX.golfer.jpg

haha thanks for that sunk the birdie. Disco knees I agree! I'm actually swinging about 80% in that video. I think my over rotating just makes it
look like i'm trying to really pork it!

[tembolo1284]

russc, on 28 November 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Stance is too wide.Still should have more weight on your left foot than your right at setup.The triangle of your arms and the shaft  changes too much too early,too much hand action early in your swing .The hands should only hold onto the club at this point.Triangle should remain intact until about 7:00..All of this leads to  not retaining the slight spine tilt that you established at address.Because you do this your weight is loading more toward your middle right than into your your left . These contribute to being too steep going down and a considerable lateral drive by your left knee in the downswing.You  need only enough lateral drive going down to establish your left pivot point over your  left heel /ankle.Any more will detract from your rotation going down.
Place  a  1 lb dumbbell  directly behind the club and sweep it away going back.You might want to place a  1/2 shaft just outside  your left knee at  setup  and avoid hitting during your downswing.Practice the depth of turn drill

Russ do you mean with the 6 iron? I should be like 60 left and 40 right at address? I'm 50/50 now with 6i - 3 wood when it's off the ground.
7-9 i'm 55 or so left...and the wedges I get 60 on the left side.

[hoganfan924]

T,

Your swing is about as long as mine was a few years ago.  As others have said, stance way too wide for starters.  Then just learn to "bust it from 9 O'clock" or at least what feels like 9.

[tembolo1284]

hoganfan924, on 29 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

T,

Your swing is about as long as mine was a few years ago.  As others have said, stance way too wide for starters.  Then just learn to "bust it from 9 O'clock" or at least what feels like 9.

What would you say hoganfan...about one shoe or so narrow it up? That would be for widest stance I should have. You agree?

[tylerdurden]

Do u have heavy driver? I've been using mine a lot and it really tightens things up. I have big mirrors face on and DTL to make sure it stays tight too. But you can really get it set and ready to go almost at 9 like HF said

[hoganfan924]

tembolo1284, on 30 November 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

hoganfan924, on 29 November 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

T,

Your swing is about as long as mine was a few years ago.  As others have said, stance way too wide for starters.  Then just learn to "bust it from 9 O'clock" or at least what feels like 9.

What would you say hoganfan...about one shoe or so narrow it up? That would be for widest stance I should have. You agree?

That would be about right for a 6 iron.

[tembolo1284]

tylerdurden, on 30 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Do u have heavy driver? I've been using mine a lot and it really tightens things up. I have big mirrors face on and DTL to make sure it stays tight too. But you can really get it set and ready to go almost at 9 like HF said

Ya I have a heavy driver. Made 150 swings with it last night. I think i'm starting to get it. We'll see how it goes tmrw. Gonna hit 500 balls and try to play 18 somewhere. I just hope my shots don't start drawing again hehe.

[tylerdurden]

I love the heavy driver. I feel like it tightened up my backswing so much. It's like night and day

[tylerdurden]

To be honest I'm afraid it's going to snap the steel shaft on the driver though (old titleist pt). The thing flexes like crazy

[rok78]

Because I had similar issues I've worked through and fixed, I have a few things that may help. These things below can be monitored without the ball and at home doing mirror drills.

Your right hip does not get "deep" enough and moves towards the target too early which is why it looks like you come off the tush line in the backswing. You may need to FEEL like your thighs do not rotate on the backswing and you are swinging into your right hip. Hard to explain in writing.

Have your left knee feel like it works towards your left toe on the backswing.

Try to keep your right arm as straight as possible at the top of the swing. Overswings happen because the right arm bends past 90*.

[tembolo1284]

rok78, on 30 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Because I had similar issues I've worked through and fixed, I have a few things that may help. These things below can be monitored without the ball and at home doing mirror drills.

Your right hip does not get "deep" enough and moves towards the target too early which is why it looks like you come off the tush line in the backswing. You may need to FEEL like your thighs do not rotate on the backswing and you are swinging into your right hip. Hard to explain in writing.

Have your left knee feel like it works towards your left toe on the backswing.

Try to keep your right arm as straight as possible at the top of the swing. Overswings happen because the right arm bends past 90*.

That's good stuff rok. Thanks for that. That right arm image is something that looks to have tightened up my backswing right away. Just got to keep it relaxed. Thanks!

[tembolo1284]

hehe, TD mine's an old 976R titleist. Taped up a bunch of pennies in there. The shaft flexes like crazy too.

[hoganfan924]

tembolo1284, on 30 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

tylerdurden, on 30 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Do u have heavy driver? I've been using mine a lot and it really tightens things up. I have big mirrors face on and DTL to make sure it stays tight too. But you can really get it set and ready to go almost at 9 like HF said

Ya I have a heavy driver. Made 150 swings with it last night. I think i'm starting to get it. We'll see how it goes tmrw. Gonna hit 500 balls and try to play 18 somewhere. I just hope my shots don't start drawing again hehe.

The heavy club is the single best training aid I've ever used, and I have a ton of them.  But taking 150 swings with one in a single session doesn't strike me as the most productive way to use it.  I suggest taking just 10 swings with it then swinging a normal club until you feel like you're losing the feel of the backswing length.   Then swing the heavy again for 5-10 swings.  Repeat.

I've been alternating swinging the heavy, swinging a speed whoosh, then a 3 iron and a driver indoors.  Working on maximum SS with the compact swing.  Will be doing it at least 3-4 times/week throughout the winter.  I can really feel the "snap" with the irons and am putting up the highest numbers on my SS radar with them I've ever seen.  Made several swings with the 3i at 102-106 mph last night and a few 98-100 with a 6i.  Weird thing is that my SS radar has always seemingly given accurate readings with irons but not with the driver (always reads high).

Getting over the mental block that such a compact swing can produce high speeds and power is a tough mental block to overcome but I believe this way is working well for me.

[tembolo1284]

hoganfan924, on 30 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

tembolo1284, on 30 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

tylerdurden, on 30 November 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Do u have heavy driver? I've been using mine a lot and it really tightens things up. I have big mirrors face on and DTL to make sure it stays tight too. But you can really get it set and ready to go almost at 9 like HF said

Ya I have a heavy driver. Made 150 swings with it last night. I think i'm starting to get it. We'll see how it goes tmrw. Gonna hit 500 balls and try to play 18 somewhere. I just hope my shots don't start drawing again hehe.

The heavy club is the single best training aid I've ever used, and I have a ton of them.  But taking 150 swings with one in a single session doesn't strike me as the most productive way to use it.  I suggest taking just 10 swings with it then swinging a normal club until you feel like you're losing the feel of the backswing length.   Then swing the heavy again for 5-10 swings.  Repeat.

I've been alternating swinging the heavy, swinging a speed whoosh, then a 3 iron and a driver indoors.  Working on maximum SS with the compact swing.  Will be doing it at least 3-4 times/week throughout the winter.  I can really feel the "snap" with the irons and am putting up the highest numbers on my SS radar with them I've ever seen.  Made several swings with the 3i at 102-106 mph last night and a few 98-100 with a 6i.  Weird thing is that my SS radar has always seemingly given accurate readings with irons but not with the driver (always reads high).

Getting over the mental block that such a compact swing can produce high speeds and power is a tough mental block to overcome but I believe this way is working well for me.

That's good stuff. Ya, I alternate as well between a normal club and the heavy weight. I don't just go swinging it back and forth 150 times hehe.

I think I'm ok with such a short swing and being able to produce enough power. I just hope the draw doesn't come back into the game.

[Jon Robert]

Do the David Leadbetter cross legged drill. Place your left foot over on the wrong side of your right foot like you have to pee something terrible.  Hit balls. Ingrain the feel of the resulting body action.

Edited by Jon Robert, 30 November 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[golfperformance]

Research at TPI is indicating that swinging a heavy club (more than 12 % over the weight of a normal club) can disrupt the normal sequencing of your swing as well as several other issues (altered balance, compensatory movements in the arms).

[tembolo1284]

So assuming I can get the club in a better position at the top where it's not across the line and my elbow isn't so deep...I can basically start externally rotating and shallowing out the club right away right? I won't need to come over the top to get my elbow in front of me.

With that said...aren't I then going to swing too inside out? I'm just trying to picture it. It looks like i'll be able to start opening my body right away and that'll be the best way to keep the swing path fairly zero'd out and square the face.

[russc]

In order to attack the ball from shallow angles ,you need to have shallowed the shaft by the END of transition
You can either shallow going back via gradual left forearm rotation/when right arm folds or you can shallow in transition or you do a combination of both.The advantage of shallowing during your backswing is that it can happen gradually,starting  when the takeaway is complete.The advantage/disadvantage of shallowing in transition is that it can be combined in a slotting motion.If you decide to shallow in transition ,note that that it will be combination move of radial deviation (right thumb approaching the forearm),,right shoulder external rotation and right arm moving forward with the hands remaining basically  in place.
Done correctly your right elbow will then able be to  move in front of your right hip ,just where it should be.

Edited by russc, 03 December 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[tembolo1284]

russc, on 03 December 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

In order to attack the ball from shallow angles ,you need to have shallowed the shaft by the END of transition
You can either shallow going back via gradual left forearm rotation/when right arm folds or you can shallow in transition or you do a combination of both.The advantage of shallowing during your backswing is that it can happen gradually,starting  when the takeaway is complete.The advantage/disadvantage of shallowing in transition is that it can be combined in a slotting motion.If you decide to shallow in transition ,note that that it will be combination move of radial deviation (right thumb approaching the forearm),,right shoulder external rotation and right arm moving forward with the hands remaining basically  in place.
Done correctly your right elbow will then able be to  move in front of your right hip ,just where it should be.

Great! Thanks for that Russ.

[isaacbm]

wow!  We finally get to see Tembolo's magic move!  Pretty good over all.

I agree that it looks a little rushed and the base is a little wide for an iron.  A couple of classic drills:

1.Take 3/4 swings with your heels together.  It will smooth out your takeaway and transition and make you more aware of your balance.
2. Make a lot of slow motion practice swings in the mirror where you focus on the sequencing of the downswing.  Slowly move your ankles, then knees, then hips, until your club drops in the slot.  Then hold the impact position.

These drills will help smooth things out a little and get the club picking up speed a little more naturally.  It looks like you're forcing it a bit from the top by using a lot of upper body strength.  Let the arms and hands react to the feet, knees and hips, rather then trying to get speed from the shoulders and forearms.

Looks pretty good man!