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How much it too much?


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#1 Titleistpro123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

I have never taken lessons and never will.  I prefer to do things my own way and I am a decent golfer.  Anyways, today I talked to a buddy and long story short found out he was taking golf lessons that were $200 for 45 minutes.  I couldn't believe it and didn't know what to say.  So my question is how much is too much for a lesson in your mind? I would pay very few people $200 for 45 mins, like any one of the greats or anyone top 25 on PGA Tour, but thats just me and I'm poor.  So whats your opinion and how much do you pay for lessons if you take them.  I'm really interested in this.


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#2 Timanator

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:39 PM

Does he instructor have some students that play well?
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#3 Titleistpro123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostTimanator, on 27 November 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Does he instructor have some students that play well?
Not that I know of, I'm sure he teaches good players besides my buddy (6 handicap).

#4 MadGolfer76

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.
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#5 Titleistpro123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.
Well he is 26 years old and said he wants to go pro, but paying $200 a lesson isn't going to make you a pro.  If the teacher is excellent you may have a better chance.  Kinda like saying buying a Ferrari over a Ford is going to make you a better driver, in my opinion.


#6 Sean2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.
Hey...be nice.

#7 Titleistpro123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostSean2, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.
Yes, exactly! I find that with a lot of my golfing buddies.  They think that because the teacher charges more they must be better.  The whole instruction world seems so contaminated to me.  All these "theories" and garbage.

#8 MadGolfer76

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:09 PM

View PostSean2, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.

Good teachers are junkies when it comes to teaching. They don't overcharge because that would limit their outlet.
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#9 MadGolfer76

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:12 PM

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.
Well he is 26 years old and said he wants to go pro, but paying $200 a lesson isn't going to make you a pro.  If the teacher is excellent you may have a better chance.  Kinda like saying buying a Ferrari over a Ford is going to make you a better driver, in my opinion.

26? Scarcely old enough to know anything about anything and not old enough to recognize that reality. There is a possibility that he is good and worth the money...but it is VERY small.
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#10 duffer987

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:24 PM

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Yes, exactly! I find that with a lot of my golfing buddies.  They think that because the teacher charges more they must be better.  The whole instruction world seems so contaminated to me.  All these "theories" and garbage.

Good to see you're open minded about it.

To get down to scratch (not even considering beyond that), I think the vast majority of people would need to be willing to expose themselves to these <condescending airquotes>theories</condescending airquotes> and garbage and take some lessons.
It's not your cup of tea, fair enough, but try and search and see how many threads here boil down to two things: get fitted and get lessons.

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#11 Shambles

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:30 PM

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I have never taken lessons and never will.


If such is the case, then 'nuff said. :)


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#12 iteachgolf

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.
Well he is 26 years old and said he wants to go pro, but paying $200 a lesson isn't going to make you a pro.  If the teacher is excellent you may have a better chance.  Kinda like saying buying a Ferrari over a Ford is going to make you a better driver, in my opinion.

26? Scarcely old enough to know anything about anything and not old enough to recognize that reality. There is a possibility that he is good and worth the money...but it is VERY small.
I believe he means his friend is 26.  But even if the teacher is 26 I would discredit him based on age.  I happen to be only a bit older than that and have been around for quite a bit.  I had PGA Tour Teaching Credentials at 24. Began teaching pros at 21. I know several other guys between 24-30 that I'd put up there with almost anyone teaching ability wise.  When you are open minded you might be shocked what you learn and who you might learn it from.

Now as far as price goes I charge roughly half that. In fact you can take 4 hours (half day) for what he charges for 90 minutes.  Price will be dictated by location and demand.  Personally I think $200 for 45 min is quite steep.  But I'm not in this to get rich and want to be able to reach the most people I can.

#13 J.W.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.

If he's got someone paying it then its not BS.

#14 bobilishious2

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostSean2, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.

I was fortunate enough to get some coaching from a very high level coach who coaches a number of winners on the European Tour and as he was willing to accept me for some coaching I felt quite bad asking about how much it would be (as I felt he was going out of his way to be helpful).

Anyway, he stood with me for 2 1/2 hours going over various things (great experience) and when I left I was a bit worried about how much he might ask me to pay him (I thought it could have been thousands given his profile).

He said "no charge for the lesson, just give me 30 quid (50 dollars) for petrol money"

I think this is in a similar vein to what iteach was saying. At the end of the day he was just interested in interacting with as many people as he could and his success (status or money) was just a by product of that.

I think there are a lot of poor coaches charging a small fortune and a lot of great coaches who will give you a great deal of their time for a nominal fee.

#15 Titleistpro123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:08 AM

View Postduffer987, on 27 November 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Yes, exactly! I find that with a lot of my golfing buddies.  They think that because the teacher charges more they must be better.  The whole instruction world seems so contaminated to me.  All these "theories" and garbage.

Good to see you're open minded about it.

To get down to scratch (not even considering beyond that), I think the vast majority of people would need to be willing to expose themselves to these <condescending airquotes>theories</condescending airquotes> and garbage and take some lessons.
It's not your cup of tea, fair enough, but try and search and see how many threads here boil down to two things: get fitted and get lessons.
I understand people might need one on one instruction to improve, but a lot of people I know ESPECIALLY this friend I'm talking about think that having a swing that looks good is going to make you good.  Theres so much more to the game than that.  I asked him to play golf 4 times last week and he said "my teacher says not to play yet until I get this new swing."

Now this guy wants to go pro he told me and he said hes been practicing a lot this year but has only played 10 rounds of golf......  I mean, are you kidding me? I don't have a problem with people that go by the book, everyone is different.  Just seems like a waste of money-all these lessons thinking its going to make you a pro.  The only thing he would talk to me about is how his swing "looked," not how he was hitting it or scoring.

Yes, having a good swing will make you play better, I understand that but thats not the point.  I know there are a million opinions on this and I respect them all so let me hear them.  Why do people think that lessons are a must to go pro?


#16 Bingo1976

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:14 AM

Because 90% of guys on tour have coaches.

#17 Titleistpro123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

View PostBingo1976, on 28 November 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Because 90% of guys on tour have coaches.
Yeah I guess thats the only explanation, as obvious as it is.  People see they have coaches and automatically think thats the only way.

#18 MadGolfer76

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:15 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 28 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostTitleistpro123, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.
Well he is 26 years old and said he wants to go pro, but paying $200 a lesson isn't going to make you a pro.  If the teacher is excellent you may have a better chance.  Kinda like saying buying a Ferrari over a Ford is going to make you a better driver, in my opinion.

26? Scarcely old enough to know anything about anything and not old enough to recognize that reality. There is a possibility that he is good and worth the money...but it is VERY small.
I believe he means his friend is 26.  But even if the teacher is 26 I would discredit him based on age.  I happen to be only a bit older than that and have been around for quite a bit.  I had PGA Tour Teaching Credentials at 24. Began teaching pros at 21. I know several other guys between 24-30 that I'd put up there with almost anyone teaching ability wise.  When you are open minded you might be shocked what you learn and who you might learn it from.

Now as far as price goes I charge roughly half that. In fact you can take 4 hours (half day) for what he charges for 90 minutes.  Price will be dictated by location and demand.  Personally I think $200 for 45 min is quite steep.  But I'm not in this to get rich and want to be able to reach the most people I can.

Maybe I read it wrong.

Sounds like you would be the "small chance" I spoke of, eh?
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#19 MadGolfer76

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

View PostJ.W., on 28 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.

If he's got someone paying it then its not BS.

Of course it is. There is a difference between charging a high value because you deliver a quality outcome, and putting one over on those who trust their instruction to you. It is called ethics.

This all may be a moot point anyway, because no ones knows if this guy is good or not, but if I pay someone 200 bucks I would at least expect a result that was much better than what I could have gotten by changing the settings on a 910.
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#20 Titleistpro123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

View PostJ.W., on 28 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

If someone is looking to go into professional golf or high level am golf, then I could see it. If it is someone who teaches at a very high level facility and you are getting the full technological treatment in every lesson, I could see that. But, if it is just some random pro standing around commenting on your swing, that is BS.

If he's got someone paying it then its not BS.
Guess thats one way to look at it.  Same attitude I saw from the guys working at the car dealership I worked at when I was a porter.  Even when they were selling a crappy car with issues unknown to the buyer for way too much, they didn't care cause its all about the money to some people.  I just could never live with myself doing those kinds of things.  Just seems rediculous some guy would feel 45 minutes of his time giving a few tips is worth $200.


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#21 J.W.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

Difference between being dishonest though like the car dealer scenario.  I wouldn't pay anyone $200 for 45 minutes, it was just a point.  Whatever job you have you're trying to maximize your own value.

#22 iteachgolf

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM

The real issue I see is that it doesn't sound like the teacher or your friend have a clue what it takes to get to the next level, not his prices.  As a 6 handicap he is 12-14 shots from where he needs to be.  To get 12 shots better at that level is very tough. Especially for someone with a career and responsibilities because it takes a substantial amount of time to jump that level.  I've had two guys in low single digits become +4 or 5 and give it a go.  One actually shot 60 to win a mini tour event not to long ago.  Both were practicing/playing full time with no job.  Not exactly realistic for most people but it can be done. (and practicing that much is no guarantee of success either)

I have all my guys seriously giving it a go playing 4-5 days a week and practicing 6 with one day off a week.  Tournament weeks are the same.  It's a job.

Edited by iteachgolf, 28 November 2012 - 10:19 AM.


#23 Titleistpro123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 28 November 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

The real issue I see is that it doesn't sound like the teacher or your friend have a clue what it takes to get to the next level, not his prices.  As a 6 handicap he is 12-14 shots from where he needs to be.  To get 12 shots better at that level is very tough. Especially for someone with a career and responsibilities because it takes a substantial amount of time to jump that level.  I've had two guys in low single digits become +4 or 5 and give it a go.  One actually shot 60 to win a mini tour event not to long ago.  Both were practicing/playing full time with no job.  Not exactly realistic for most people but it can be done. (and practicing that much is no guarantee of success either)

I have all my guys seriously giving it a go playing 4-5 days a week and practicing 6 with one day off a week.  Tournament weeks are the same.  It's a job.
Yeah I agree, it is an issue.  The problem is he got serious bout 4 years ago and he started as a 20 handicap (played as a kid and picked it up again).  So in 4 years he improved by 14 shots and he thinks to improve the 10-12 shots more will be a piece of cake.  Its so hard to get from a 6 to a scratch, and then HARDER to get from scratch to say +4 or 5.

#24 Titleistpro123

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostJ.W., on 28 November 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Difference between being dishonest though like the car dealer scenario.  I wouldn't pay anyone $200 for 45 minutes, it was just a point.  Whatever job you have you're trying to maximize your own value.
Yeah I guess if a bunch of people pay it, why not charge $200.  Starting to make sense to me.  Hes not being dishonest or ripping people off if they like taking lessons from him regardless of price.

#25 Sean2

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

View Postbobilishious2, on 28 November 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

View PostSean2, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.

I was fortunate enough to get some coaching from a very high level coach who coaches a number of winners on the European Tour and as he was willing to accept me for some coaching I felt quite bad asking about how much it would be (as I felt he was going out of his way to be helpful).

Anyway, he stood with me for 2 1/2 hours going over various things (great experience) and when I left I was a bit worried about how much he might ask me to pay him (I thought it could have been thousands given his profile).

He said "no charge for the lesson, just give me 30 quid (50 dollars) for petrol money"

I think this is in a similar vein to what iteach was saying. At the end of the day he was just interested in interacting with as many people as he could and his success (status or money) was just a by product of that.

I think there are a lot of poor coaches charging a small fortune and a lot of great coaches who will give you a great deal of their time for a nominal fee.
Great story. Nice to hear that there are still people around like that. :-)

Hey...be nice.

#26 Sean2

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 27 November 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just because someone charges a lot for lessons doesn't mean they are a great instructor. Conversely you can find great instructors that don't charge big dollars. Manuel de la Torre charges $80 an hour I believe. My own instructor is inexpensive and in my opinion he's probably the best in New England.

Good teachers are junkies when it comes to teaching. They don't overcharge because that would limit their outlet.
Or, the money is secondary. :-)
Hey...be nice.

#27 russc

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

Only a small% golfers are outstanding or even very good instructors.They deserve and often are paid  very well

#28 Guia

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

If he is a 6 handicap he has a long way to go unless he wants to be a club pro.

#29 negolfking

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:51 PM

Sean2 who did you work with in New England ?

#30 Sean2

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

View Postnegolfking, on 28 November 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Sean2 who did you work with in New England ?
Lee Khang. He really knows golf and the golf swing. His daughter is a phenom. Really.

Hey...be nice.

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