Jump to content

Welcome, Guest. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with existing members and access to certain forums. Join our community today and enter into a chance to win a free regular giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

- - - - -

Pivot stall

and flip

  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#61 Jim Waldron

Jim Waldron
  • Advanced Members
  • 730 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 98978
  • Joined: 11/21/2009
  • Location:Oregon and Hawaii

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

Tommy - more like 99.9% of average golfers are Ball Bound. And this is what triggers the destructive Impulses.  It is also the foundation for eventually developing the yips, if one does end up with that horrible affliction. My concept is that anyone who is more than mildly Ball Bound is already in a pre-yip phase, it may not ever develop into full blown yips, (and usually does not) but the pre-yips phase does it's own form of damage to one's game.

I never start with Mechanics with a new student if I see that they have real issues with Hit, Scooping or Steering issues. Those are 100% mental and intentional by nature, so I start there, the root cause of their bad mechanics. The improvement is then much, much faster and much more dramatic and the student has a real "light bulb" moment of deep understanding. It is stuff you can take to the golf course right away as well and see some real score improvement.

You have convinced yourself that your pause is necessary. That is a belief - far from a fact. But I know that beliefs are often more "real" to those who hold them than facts will ever be.

Pausing like that can eventually turn into the yips - if it becomes involuntarily, and also results in sudden increase of tension that persists into the downswing, it is the yips. I see it all the time, Barkley being the poster child for a pause yip. You might consider testing it now by trying to hit a few balls without the pause. If you find that you cannot swing without the pause - well, you know what I think on that issue. You can also test by doing a non-ball swing - most golfers will not come OTT/steep/early release nearly as much - if at all - when the ball is not there.

I am working on a book about being Ball Bound, well not the whole book, but a significant part of it. A lot of teaching pros know about this issue, but the mind/body connection approach is still too new and revolutionary to have been widely embraced by the Golf Establishment. Although that is clearly starting to change. When it does, you will see a revolution in teaching that will make video and Trackman look like peanuts by comparison.


#62 tommykrebs

tommykrebs
  • Advanced Members
  • 576 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128692
  • Joined: 05/14/2011
  • Location:Germany

Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:35 PM

Jim many many thanks. And I promise not to pause like CB. I try to swing without a pause as soon as possible. I really appreciate your and Kelly's help and tomorrow I will buy a medicine ball and start to drive my neighbor crazy bumping the whole day a 5kg ball against their wall. I'm sure they will have a understanding for my situation. :wave:

And good luck with the book. I will buy one, not write one.

Edited by tommykrebs, 29 November 2012 - 12:38 PM.

View Sig

#63 HitEmTrue

HitEmTrue
  • Advanced Members
  • 1,735 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 93756
  • Joined: 09/04/2009
  • Location:North Texas

Posted 29 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

 tommykrebs, on 29 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Jim many many thanks. And I promise not to pause like CB. I try to swing without a pause as soon as possible. I really appreciate your and Kelly's help and tomorrow I will buy a medicine ball and start to drive my neighbor crazy bumping the whole day a 5kg ball against their wall. I'm sure they will have a understanding for my situation. :wave:

And good luck with the book. I will buy one, not write one.

I think you are too hard on yourself based on little things you see in your swing.  And hopefully you realize "as soon as possible" is on your very next swing.,..

#64 dairic

dairic
  • Advanced Members
  • 524 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132074
  • Joined: 06/30/2011
  • Location:Vancouver BC

Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

Tommy for what it's worth here's what's helped me get over the impulse to hit the ball. I just want to be clear that I'm not a teacher or expert.

To cure my hitting instinct I needed to stop trying to directly control the club face with my hands and arms from the beginning of the take away. Allowing the club head to lag behind the hands during take away completely changes the dynamic motion of the swing. Instead of trying to get into various positions the feeling becomes more about managing momentum. Tempo improves and the shaft comes alive. I find that when i swing this way hitting instinct is minimized because you feel shaft's momentum interrupted. One piece take away was the death of me.

A lot of the greatest ball strikers lagged the club head during the take away so there must be something to it.

Cheers

#65 pappaf2

pappaf2
  • Advanced Members
  • 862 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 99231
  • Joined: 11/26/2009
  • Location:Bay Area, CA

Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:14 PM

 dairic, on 29 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Tommy for what it's worth here's what's helped me get over the impulse to hit the ball. I just want to be clear that I'm not a teacher or expert.

To cure my hitting instinct I needed to stop trying to directly control the club face with my hands and arms from the beginning of the take away. Allowing the club head to lag behind the hands during take away completely changes the dynamic motion of the swing. Instead of trying to get into various positions the feeling becomes more about managing momentum. Tempo improves and the shaft comes alive. I find that when i swing this way hitting instinct is minimized because you feel shaft's momentum interrupted. One piece take away was the death of me.

A lot of the greatest ball strikers lagged the club head during the take away so there must be something to it.

Cheers

This is an interesting thought. I have noticed that when I have done this my swing feels much more free flowing than when I try a more standard one peice take away. I have wondered if this was a bad move to do because so often you hear people preaching the one peice take away.

View Sig

#66 tommykrebs

tommykrebs
  • Advanced Members
  • 576 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128692
  • Joined: 05/14/2011
  • Location:Germany

Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

 dairic, on 29 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Tommy for what it's worth here's what's helped me get over the impulse to hit the ball. I just want to be clear that I'm not a teacher or expert.

To cure my hitting instinct I needed to stop trying to directly control the club face with my hands and arms from the beginning of the take away. Allowing the club head to lag behind the hands during take away completely changes the dynamic motion of the swing. Instead of trying to get into various positions the feeling becomes more about managing momentum. Tempo improves and the shaft comes alive. I find that when i swing this way hitting instinct is minimized because you feel shaft's momentum interrupted. One piece take away was the death of me.

A lot of the greatest ball strikers lagged the club head during the take away so there must be something to it.

Cheers
Is this what you mean?


View Sig

#67 dairic

dairic
  • Advanced Members
  • 524 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132074
  • Joined: 06/30/2011
  • Location:Vancouver BC

Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

That's what I mean tommy. However these long hitters always make everything look more EXTREME. Ben hogan, jack nichlaus, bobby jones are guys with different looking swings but they all lagged the club during take away. It's not always obvious but if you look closely you can see it.

The tendency for some people doing this is to sway towards the back foot. Because you've been drilling your swing so much I don't think you'll have to many problems, it may give you a different feeling while keeping the good form that you have.

#68 tommykrebs

tommykrebs
  • Advanced Members
  • 576 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128692
  • Joined: 05/14/2011
  • Location:Germany

Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

Thank you! It is worth to give it a try.
View Sig

#69 dairic

dairic
  • Advanced Members
  • 524 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 132074
  • Joined: 06/30/2011
  • Location:Vancouver BC

Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

 tommykrebs, on 29 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Thank you! It is worth to give it a try.

Awesome tommy. Let us know how it goes.



#70 chiva

chiva
  • Advanced Members
  • 985 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 176280
  • Joined: 04/20/2012
  • Location:Arizona

Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

 dairic, on 29 November 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

 tommykrebs, on 29 November 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Thank you! It is worth to give it a try.

Awesome tommy. Let us know how it goes.



Who is that? Really nice swing. So smooth and effortless.

View Sig

#71 carrera

carrera
  • Advanced Members
  • 1,413 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 139
  • Joined: 04/21/2005
  • Location:SF Bay Area

Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

 chiva, on 29 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:


Who is that? Really nice swing. So smooth and effortless.

Greg McHatton...lots of videos on YouTube.
View Sig

#72 chiva

chiva
  • Advanced Members
  • 985 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 176280
  • Joined: 04/20/2012
  • Location:Arizona

Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:09 AM

 carrera, on 30 November 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

 chiva, on 29 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:


Who is that? Really nice swing. So smooth and effortless.

Greg McHatton...lots of videos on YouTube.

Thanks!
View Sig

#73 tommykrebs

tommykrebs
  • Advanced Members
  • 576 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 128692
  • Joined: 05/14/2011
  • Location:Germany

Posted 30 November 2012 - 06:07 AM

The medicine ball is ordered. Snow is predicted and I can do some indoor exercises.


View Sig

#74 Daniel Eason

Daniel Eason
  • Advanced Members
  • 347 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 119644
  • Joined: 12/31/2010

Posted 30 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

I can see this getting into a debate about S&T next :)

Tommy, take a look at Moe Norman too :)

My view is you either perfect the swing until you look like Rory Mcilroy or work with the ability you have, which from where I see you aint too bad despite the original reason for you posting!

#75 Jacob Mac

Jacob Mac
  • Advanced Members
  • 520 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 108513
  • Joined: 05/25/2010

Posted 30 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

I pivot stall frequently.   I have to focus on footwork.   Specifically,  finishing on a straight left leg.  For me that means pushing up hard on my left leg in my downswing.   Now I'm 6'6 and I don't have particularly strong legs.  So I can't over cook that move.  But when I'm lazy with my legs,  I pivot stall.





GolfWRX Sponsors