244 replies to this topic

[pinhigh27]

Anyone interested? I see so much misinformation on this site and really feel this area has been missed and needed. I see so much, "I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"
I just think there is a lot of misinformation out there about the golf swing.
To start off, I'm 19 and have the following 1RM lifting stats, they aren't impressive or big but I'm planning on increasing them slowly and competing sometime in 2013.
Squat(A2G): 285
DL: 315
Bench: 205
OHP: 125
Pull ups: 15

[SunkTheBirdie]

Mouse clicks: 1000

Fitness is important in golf.
But I'd read Hogan's Five Fundamentals first.

Edited by SunkTheBirdie, 21 November 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[inpresX]

Don't forget to work the obliques.

[Ghost_Orchid]

I'm in week 3 of P90X, loving it !!!!

Chest and back tonight...pull ups and pushups...yeah.

Bring it!

[chrisgilly09]

Obviously you're going atg on squats, but I was wondering if there's a difference between that and going to femurs parallel to ground and if there's any added benefit going farther. Honest question, I've heard both and been doing the latter for a while and have seen some steady gains.

Thanks, this could be a monster thread

[Agent Jim]

I use my own weight. Just coming off a little break from a vacation to Austin for the USGP F1 race. I was suppose to do 12 miles today, but the wind beat me down bad.

[pinhigh27]

chrisgilly09, on 21 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Obviously you're going atg on squats, but I was wondering if there's a difference between that and going to femurs parallel to ground and if there's any added benefit going farther. Honest question, I've heard both and been doing the latter for a while and have seen some steady gains.

Thanks, this could be a monster thread

I think anything to parallel is considered a good squat, and when I compete I will definitely just go to parallel, but for now I go ATG for 2 reasons:
1. I think it encourages more hip mobility, flexibility has been a weak point for me growing up and I really feel to properly squat ATG I have to stretch out and make sure my mobility is as high as possible. I think the additional hip mobility helps me with my hip turn.
2. I worry about depth, especially for people(like me) with relatively low poundages. So for me, I'd rather go too deep and not worry about hitting parallel, than wonder if I'm really hitting my legs enough and going too shallow. I do think that parallel is going to be the best for people that are looking to lift the most weight.

I think a lot of people should look at the differences between low bar and high bar squatting. I lowered positioning and it helped a lot.

[Bluefan75]

Ghost_Orchid, on 21 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I'm in week 3 of P90X, loving it !!!!

Chest and back tonight...pull ups and pushups...yeah.

Bring it!

Just so you know, P90X is really a circuit cardio workout.  You're not going to get much stronger, not like you could on a more barbell focused program.  Pullups and pushups aren't bad, but they are simply bodyweight exercises. Once they get *easy*(for lack of a better term), then what?

6 days a week of an hour of sweating will always show some type of benefit, particularly if you are a novice(ie, can recover from a "hard workout" completely in 48 hours), but is it the best use of your time?

[pinhigh27]

Bluefan75, on 22 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Ghost_Orchid, on 21 November 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I'm in week 3 of P90X, loving it !!!!

Chest and back tonight...pull ups and pushups...yeah.

Bring it!

Just so you know, P90X is really a circuit cardio workout.  You're not going to get much stronger, not like you could on a more barbell focused program.  Pullups and pushups aren't bad, but they are simply bodyweight exercises. Once they get *easy*(for lack of a better term), then what?

6 days a week of an hour of sweating will always show some type of benefit, particularly if you are a novice(ie, can recover from a "hard workout" completely in 48 hours), but is it the best use of your time?

I agree, and it all depends on your goals. If you want to do more cardio focused, something like P90X is pretty good but if you are looking to get stronger, check out Starting Strength. Any linear progression program is going to be the best for people working on stength gains, provided they aren't already at an advanced level.

[chrisgilly09]

Funny you say that, cause when you mentioned low bar squats I was gonna mention Mark.

[andre112]

pinhigh27, on 21 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

"I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"

I'm one of those people who thought this is true.
Care to share why these statement aren't true?

[Bluefan75]

andre112, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 21 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

"I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"

I'm one of those people who thought this is true.
Care to share why these statement aren't true?

You need to have really big muscles to limit your flexibility.  And you need to eat a lot(and I mean a lot) of food in order to get muscles big enough to do that(or to get bulky).  By that point you are lifting a ton of weight.  If you want to cut, you stop eating so much.

You put on weight as your lifts go up, because you need increased muscle to lift more weight.  There will be a decent portion of that that is body fat.  But a large portion of it will be muscle mass.  Once you eat lass, but keep lifting, a lot of the body fat you gained goes away, but the muscle does not go away so quickly.  Strength is harder to gain, but also stays with you a lot longer.

How you eat has far more to do with it than "high reps low weight" stuff.  Eat clean and a lot, and you can progress very nicely(the eat clean part is my problem).  Eat clean but not as much, you'll still have most of your muscle mass, and with the big engine you have now created, will burn a lot of that fat.

that's the reader's digest version anyway.

[tylerdurden]

I don't buy the idea that lifting heavy is bad. Player squatted 300+ which isn't a lot but it is for a little dude like him. I've been power lifting forever and it doesn't hurt me and I never get injured because I learned from good trainers as a kid. Just need to stretch. But I go as heavy as possible. Plus it helps offset the none contact/low physical intensity nature of golf

[tylerdurden]

We should start posting high speeds of lifting and arguing over technique

[tylerdurden]

I'm 100% CP on all my core lifts and my connection is beautiful

[Agent Jim]

I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.

[pinhigh27]

andre112, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 21 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

"I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"

I'm one of those people who thought this is true.
Care to share why these statement aren't true?

The only people that have limited flexibility due to their size are bodybuilders that just focus on having huge muscles. I mean take some of the strongest people you know of, like NFL linebackers and running backs. These guys are incredibly strong, while being incredibly agile and flexible. Do you think they are too bulky, and that their performance would be restricted by their size? No way, because all they care about is performance. If they were being hindired by their size, they would slim down to regain their speed and agility. Check out Ray Rice's build. It's awesome and he is one of the most agile guys in the league. It actually takes a fair amount of flexibility to properly squat. The average person does not have the hip mobility to squat properly to an adequate depth. Weightlifting improves flexibility dramatically. Try watching a youtube video of squat technique from one of the well known instructors like Rippletoe, Starr. It really takes some flexibility.

Another issue I see with people is they say they are hard gainers and the like. Sure, there are slight metabolic differences in people and their body composition but everyone can improve. My junior year of HS, I was 5'10'' 130 and weighed less than a lot of girls. Talk about embarassing. Now in my second year of college, I'm 5'10'' 175. If you eat and you lift heavy, you WILL have gains. People want to make excuses, but honestly your genetics are not going to be a limiting factor unless you have spent 5+ years, have had elite coaching and have incredibly high lifts. My thoughts: Most of you "hard-gainers" aren't really hardgainers, you just don't eat as much as you think. Some days after a work out I will eat a whole pizza. To gain weight and muscle, you need a caloric excess. If you have a caloric excess and you lift heavy, you will gain muscle.

Edit: I missed responding to the part about "high rep for toning" and "low rep for bulk." I essentially look at your muscle growth as two possiblities: catabolism(losing) and anabolism(growing). If you are lifting, and in a caloric excess, you are most likely in the anabolism portion. Therefore your muscles are growing. So I guess that's bulking, but they aren't necessarily turning into unsightly blocky ugly muscles or huge. They are just simply growing.
If you are at a caloric deficit(consuming less than you use) then your muscles are most likely going catabolic. Therefore you are losing muscle mass. Lifting weights increases the amount of calories you use. So the more reps you do, the more calories you consume. So if you do 10000 reps, you can in esence "cut" but all you are really doing is burning more calories. You aren't necessarily growing your muscles. There are certain rep ranges that are optimal for hypertropy(muscle growth) which I'd say are somewhere between 4-8 reps. So doing 15 reps per set isn't really doing anything besides burning calories.
Hope this helps, I'd love to answer any more questions as this is something I'm very interested and passionate about.
Thanks for the responses guys

Edited by pinhigh27, 22 November 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[Gupps01]

Agent Jim, on 22 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.

I agree that flexibility is important but what is more important is mobility coupled with stability/strength in the correct areas. Take the hips for example. If they are not mobile enough through the anterior section and are not strong enough through the posterior chain, you can do some fairly sizable damage to knees, ankles, lumbar spine etc. I can get real technical about landing angles of the lower leg and internal rotation angles of the femur during ground contact in running but basically if glute med is not strong enough to externally rotate the femur and the hip flexors are overly short then they've found that has a significant correlation to knee injury.

As for actual weight training, I'm mucking around with combining different parts of the Chinese, Bulgarian and Russian weightlifting systems and the Westside Barbell method (which is based on a mixture of the Bulgarian and Russian systems anyway). It'll be interesting to see how they can be mixed.

Edited by Gupps01, 23 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[Gupps01]

chrisgilly09, on 21 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Obviously you're going atg on squats, but I was wondering if there's a difference between that and going to femurs parallel to ground and if there's any added benefit going farther. Honest question, I've heard both and been doing the latter for a while and have seen some steady gains.
Thanks, this could be a monster thread

There is EMG data coming out quite recently that shows as the range of motion of the squat increases, muscle activation increases. Therefore you are recruiting and training more motor units. The knee is also more stable as vastus medialis (the "teardrop" muscle on the inside part of your quads that primarily controls knee cap tracking) activation is highest in a full range of motion squat. It's why Olympic weightlifters have massive quads, because they do tons of front squats and go all the way down.

[pinhigh27]

Gupps01, on 23 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Agent Jim, on 22 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.

I agree that flexibility is important but what is more important is mobility coupled with stability/strength in the correct areas. Take the hips for example. If they are not mobile enough through the anterior section and are not strong enough through the posterior chain, you can do some fairly sizable damage to knees, ankles, lumbar spine etc. I can get real technical about landing angles of the lower leg and internal rotation angles of the femur during ground contact in running but basically if glute med is not strong enough to externally rotate the femur and the hip flexors are overly short then they've found that has a significant correlation to knee injury.

As for actual weight training, I'm mucking around with combining different parts of the Chinese, Bulgarian and Russian weightlifting systems and the Westside Barbell method (which is based on a mixture of the Bulgarian and Russian systems anyway). It'll be interesting to see how they can be mixed.

I experimented with sheiko for a while. I don't think I was far enough down the line to properly utilize the program. I think once I get to a 4 plate squat I'll give shieko another go. Haven't heard much of the chinese or bulgarian programs, are those more volume oriented like sheiko?

[grizztrax]

pinhigh27, on 22 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

andre112, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 21 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

"I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"

I'm one of those people who thought this is true.
Care to share why these statement aren't true?

The only people that have limited flexibility due to their size are bodybuilders that just focus on having huge muscles. I mean take some of the strongest people you know of, like NFL linebackers and running backs. These guys are incredibly strong, while being incredibly agile and flexible. Do you think they are too bulky, and that their performance would be restricted by their size? No way, because all they care about is performance. If they were being hindired by their size, they would slim down to regain their speed and agility. Check out Ray Rice's build. It's awesome and he is one of the most agile guys in the league. It actually takes a fair amount of flexibility to properly squat. The average person does not have the hip mobility to squat properly to an adequate depth. Weightlifting improves flexibility dramatically. Try watching a youtube video of squat technique from one of the well known instructors like Rippletoe, Starr. It really takes some flexibility.

Another issue I see with people is they say they are hard gainers and the like. Sure, there are slight metabolic differences in people and their body composition but everyone can improve. My junior year of HS, I was 5'10'' 130 and weighed less than a lot of girls. Talk about embarassing. Now in my second year of college, I'm 5'10'' 175. If you eat and you lift heavy, you WILL have gains. People want to make excuses, but honestly your genetics are not going to be a limiting factor unless you have spent 5+ years, have had elite coaching and have incredibly high lifts. My thoughts: Most of you "hard-gainers" aren't really hardgainers, you just don't eat as much as you think. Some days after a work out I will eat a whole pizza. To gain weight and muscle, you need a caloric excess. If you have a caloric excess and you lift heavy, you will gain muscle.

Edit: I missed responding to the part about "high rep for toning" and "low rep for bulk." I essentially look at your muscle growth as two possiblities: catabolism(losing) and anabolism(growing). If you are lifting, and in a caloric excess, you are most likely in the anabolism portion. Therefore your muscles are growing. So I guess that's bulking, but they aren't necessarily turning into unsightly blocky ugly muscles or huge. They are just simply growing.
If you are at a caloric deficit(consuming less than you use) then your muscles are most likely going catabolic. Therefore you are losing muscle mass. Lifting weights increases the amount of calories you use. So the more reps you do, the more calories you consume. So if you do 10000 reps, you can in esence "cut" but all you are really doing is burning more calories. You aren't necessarily growing your muscles. There are certain rep ranges that are optimal for hypertropy(muscle growth) which I'd say are somewhere between 4-8 reps. So doing 15 reps per set isn't really doing anything besides burning calories.
Hope this helps, I'd love to answer any more questions as this is something I'm very interested and passionate about.
Thanks for the responses guys

Ok just picked up the starting strength book after checking it out on Amazon and seeing all the positive reviews.  I'm 40 years old, 6'5" and 205 pounds, so I'm not sure I really need to gain weight, but would like to gain strength and reduce my body fat %.  I work out and recently started running again after reading the book "Born to Run" (highly recommend.)  I do feel as though I'm in a rut with weight lifting, not really gaining strength just maintaining.  I've done P90X and liked it, but get bored with those routines.  So really intrigued by the Starting Strength program but of course some concern with it affecting my golf swing/flexibility.  Would yoga be a good complement to this program?  I try to do some yoga stretches to keep the hammys loose, they tend to get tight and pull on my lower back.

[pinhigh27]

grizztrax, on 23 November 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 22 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

andre112, on 22 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 21 November 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

"I don't want to get too bulky," and " I dont wan't to limit my flexibility," all incorrect statements that people need to know the truth about. Or people who talk about the "convential wisdom" of high weight low reps to "bulk" and low weight high reps to "cut"

I'm one of those people who thought this is true.
Care to share why these statement aren't true?

The only people that have limited flexibility due to their size are bodybuilders that just focus on having huge muscles. I mean take some of the strongest people you know of, like NFL linebackers and running backs. These guys are incredibly strong, while being incredibly agile and flexible. Do you think they are too bulky, and that their performance would be restricted by their size? No way, because all they care about is performance. If they were being hindired by their size, they would slim down to regain their speed and agility. Check out Ray Rice's build. It's awesome and he is one of the most agile guys in the league. It actually takes a fair amount of flexibility to properly squat. The average person does not have the hip mobility to squat properly to an adequate depth. Weightlifting improves flexibility dramatically. Try watching a youtube video of squat technique from one of the well known instructors like Rippletoe, Starr. It really takes some flexibility.

Another issue I see with people is they say they are hard gainers and the like. Sure, there are slight metabolic differences in people and their body composition but everyone can improve. My junior year of HS, I was 5'10'' 130 and weighed less than a lot of girls. Talk about embarassing. Now in my second year of college, I'm 5'10'' 175. If you eat and you lift heavy, you WILL have gains. People want to make excuses, but honestly your genetics are not going to be a limiting factor unless you have spent 5+ years, have had elite coaching and have incredibly high lifts. My thoughts: Most of you "hard-gainers" aren't really hardgainers, you just don't eat as much as you think. Some days after a work out I will eat a whole pizza. To gain weight and muscle, you need a caloric excess. If you have a caloric excess and you lift heavy, you will gain muscle.

Edit: I missed responding to the part about "high rep for toning" and "low rep for bulk." I essentially look at your muscle growth as two possiblities: catabolism(losing) and anabolism(growing). If you are lifting, and in a caloric excess, you are most likely in the anabolism portion. Therefore your muscles are growing. So I guess that's bulking, but they aren't necessarily turning into unsightly blocky ugly muscles or huge. They are just simply growing.
If you are at a caloric deficit(consuming less than you use) then your muscles are most likely going catabolic. Therefore you are losing muscle mass. Lifting weights increases the amount of calories you use. So the more reps you do, the more calories you consume. So if you do 10000 reps, you can in esence "cut" but all you are really doing is burning more calories. You aren't necessarily growing your muscles. There are certain rep ranges that are optimal for hypertropy(muscle growth) which I'd say are somewhere between 4-8 reps. So doing 15 reps per set isn't really doing anything besides burning calories.
Hope this helps, I'd love to answer any more questions as this is something I'm very interested and passionate about.
Thanks for the responses guys

Ok just picked up the starting strength book after checking it out on Amazon and seeing all the positive reviews.  I'm 40 years old, 6'5" and 205 pounds, so I'm not sure I really need to gain weight, but would like to gain strength and reduce my body fat %.  I work out and recently started running again after reading the book "Born to Run" (highly recommend.)  I do feel as though I'm in a rut with weight lifting, not really gaining strength just maintaining.  I've done P90X and liked it, but get bored with those routines.  So really intrigued by the Starting Strength program but of course some concern with it affecting my golf swing/flexibility.  Would yoga be a good complement to this program?  I try to do some yoga stretches to keep the hammys loose, they tend to get tight and pull on my lower back.

SS will definitely improve your flexiblity. I would make sure you watch videos on proper form, major things being proper depth on squats and no back rounding on deadlifts. I guess Yoga can help, but it's definitely not necessary. Make sure you do some proper stretches before you squat if you haven't done it before, I do about 2-3 minutes of stretching alone before squatting and then the same after a workout. It really helps. I can get much more depth when I sretch. You don't have to worry about it hurting your golf swing. In all honesty, since picking up lifting I think my ball striking has improved due to the flexibility. I feel like I can more consistently hit the same positions that create good shots.

[grizztrax]

Yeah I can tell already this is going to be a really valuable book.  Are the videos available on youtube or did you have to get the complementary dvds?

[J13]

Another myth:  You can "tone" a muscle.  If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me they wanted to tone their muscles I would be Bill Gates.  

Fact- There is no such thing as "toning" a muscle it either grows, stays relatively the same, or gets smaller from lack of stimulus.

[Gupps01]

pinhigh27, on 23 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Gupps01, on 23 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Agent Jim, on 22 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.

I agree that flexibility is important but what is more important is mobility coupled with stability/strength in the correct areas. Take the hips for example. If they are not mobile enough through the anterior section and are not strong enough through the posterior chain, you can do some fairly sizable damage to knees, ankles, lumbar spine etc. I can get real technical about landing angles of the lower leg and internal rotation angles of the femur during ground contact in running but basically if glute med is not strong enough to externally rotate the femur and the hip flexors are overly short then they've found that has a significant correlation to knee injury.

As for actual weight training, I'm mucking around with combining different parts of the Chinese, Bulgarian and Russian weightlifting systems and the Westside Barbell method (which is based on a mixture of the Bulgarian and Russian systems anyway). It'll be interesting to see how they can be mixed.

I experimented with sheiko for a while. I don't think I was far enough down the line to properly utilize the program. I think once I get to a 4 plate squat I'll give shieko another go. Haven't heard much of the chinese or bulgarian programs, are those more volume oriented like sheiko?

The Bulgarian method is basically maxing out in the classic lifts (snatch and clean & jerk) and either the front or back squat each day. It's extremely hard due to this constant daily max and the fact they only do six exercises (the classic lifts, the power versions and front/back squats). According to the old team doctors, most of them could handle it physically but mental they just broke down. A session may look like this:

Back Squat to 1RM
Rest 30min
Snatch to 1RM
Rest 30min
C&J to 1RM
Leave gym.

Do that 6 days a week and you may struggle to move after a while.

The Chinese sort of took the best parts of the Russian system (volume and rotating exercises in and out of the training program) and the Bulgarian (daily max's and time spent doing the classic lifts) and combined them. Now I'm quite new to the Chinese system and still have a lot of info to sift through but a sample session may look like this depending on the lifter (the Chinese are always looking to improve weaknesses rather than build strengths)
Monday
Snatch to 1RM (3×3)
CNJ to 1RM (3×2)
Back Squats (5-7 x 3-5)
Clean Pulls (5 x 3)
Behind neck push press (5 x 2-5)

Tuesday
Snatch to 1RM (5-8 x 2-3) – Overhead squat after completion of each rep)
Snatch Balance (5-8 x 1-3)
Snatch Pulls (5-6 x 2-3)
Block High Snatch Pulls with Rebend (6-8 x 2-3)

Wednesday
Clean + FS + Jerk 1RM (5-8 x 2)
Front Squats (5-8 x 1 -3)
Clean Pulls (5-6 x 3)
Behind Neck Push Jerk (8 x 1)
Push Press (5 x 3 )

Thursday
Back Squats to 1RM (6-8 x 2-5)
Snatch 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Clean and Jerk 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Strict Press (5 x 3-5)

Friday
Snatch to 1RM (3 x 1)
CNJ to 1RM (3 x 1)
Snatch Pulls (5 x 3)
Block snatch high pull with rebend (5 x 2-3)
Jerk Drives (8×3) – About the same weight as your max 1RM back squats

Saturday
Front Squats to 1RM (5-6 x 1-3)
Platform Clean Deadlifts (5-6 x 1-3)
Snatch Balance (5-6 x 1-3)
Push Jerk (5×1-3)

[pinhigh27]

grizztrax, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Yeah I can tell already this is going to be a really valuable book.  Are the videos available on youtube or did you have to get the complementary dvds?

I never bought the book, if you go to the website you can view the program for free. Don't spend any more money if you already have, all the right resources are online for free!

[pinhigh27]

Gupps01, on 23 November 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

pinhigh27, on 23 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Gupps01, on 23 November 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Agent Jim, on 22 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.

I agree that flexibility is important but what is more important is mobility coupled with stability/strength in the correct areas. Take the hips for example. If they are not mobile enough through the anterior section and are not strong enough through the posterior chain, you can do some fairly sizable damage to knees, ankles, lumbar spine etc. I can get real technical about landing angles of the lower leg and internal rotation angles of the femur during ground contact in running but basically if glute med is not strong enough to externally rotate the femur and the hip flexors are overly short then they've found that has a significant correlation to knee injury.

As for actual weight training, I'm mucking around with combining different parts of the Chinese, Bulgarian and Russian weightlifting systems and the Westside Barbell method (which is based on a mixture of the Bulgarian and Russian systems anyway). It'll be interesting to see how they can be mixed.

I experimented with sheiko for a while. I don't think I was far enough down the line to properly utilize the program. I think once I get to a 4 plate squat I'll give shieko another go. Haven't heard much of the chinese or bulgarian programs, are those more volume oriented like sheiko?

The Bulgarian method is basically maxing out in the classic lifts (snatch and clean & jerk) and either the front or back squat each day. It's extremely hard due to this constant daily max and the fact they only do six exercises (the classic lifts, the power versions and front/back squats). According to the old team doctors, most of them could handle it physically but mental they just broke down. A session may look like this:

Back Squat to 1RM
Rest 30min
Snatch to 1RM
Rest 30min
C&J to 1RM
Leave gym.

Do that 6 days a week and you may struggle to move after a while.

The Chinese sort of took the best parts of the Russian system (volume and rotating exercises in and out of the training program) and the Bulgarian (daily max's and time spent doing the classic lifts) and combined them. Now I'm quite new to the Chinese system and still have a lot of info to sift through but a sample session may look like this depending on the lifter (the Chinese are always looking to improve weaknesses rather than build strengths)
Monday
Snatch to 1RM (3×3)
CNJ to 1RM (3×2)
Back Squats (5-7 x 3-5)
Clean Pulls (5 x 3)
Behind neck push press (5 x 2-5)

Tuesday
Snatch to 1RM (5-8 x 2-3) – Overhead squat after completion of each rep)
Snatch Balance (5-8 x 1-3)
Snatch Pulls (5-6 x 2-3)
Block High Snatch Pulls with Rebend (6-8 x 2-3)

Wednesday
Clean + FS + Jerk 1RM (5-8 x 2)
Front Squats (5-8 x 1 -3)
Clean Pulls (5-6 x 3)
Behind Neck Push Jerk (8 x 1)
Push Press (5 x 3 )

Thursday
Back Squats to 1RM (6-8 x 2-5)
Snatch 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Clean and Jerk 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Strict Press (5 x 3-5)

Friday
Snatch to 1RM (3 x 1)
CNJ to 1RM (3 x 1)
Snatch Pulls (5 x 3)
Block snatch high pull with rebend (5 x 2-3)
Jerk Drives (8×3) – About the same weight as your max 1RM back squats

Saturday
Front Squats to 1RM (5-6 x 1-3)
Platform Clean Deadlifts (5-6 x 1-3)
Snatch Balance (5-6 x 1-3)
Push Jerk (5×1-3)

Holy moly....Those all sound like so much work! Really interesting stuff, seems like that Bulgarian stuff wouldn't allow the body enough time to recover. It must work though! Sounds like something to try in the offseason when I'm looking to torture myself. I really want to incorporate Oly lifts to build some explosiveness for basketball.

[grizztrax]

pinhigh27, on 23 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

grizztrax, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Yeah I can tell already this is going to be a really valuable book.  Are the videos available on youtube or did you have to get the complementary dvds?

I never bought the book, if you go to the website you can view the program for free. Don't spend any more money if you already have, all the right resources are online for free!

Doh!  Well I only paid 10 bucks for the kindle edition which I can read at work so well worth it, I saw articles and videos on the website but looks like they now charge for the book content?  Unless I just missed it.  Thanks for all the info look forward to getting with the program!

[pinhigh27]

grizztrax, on 24 November 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

pinhigh27, on 23 November 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

grizztrax, on 23 November 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

Yeah I can tell already this is going to be a really valuable book.  Are the videos available on youtube or did you have to get the complementary dvds?

I never bought the book, if you go to the website you can view the program for free. Don't spend any more money if you already have, all the right resources are online for free!

Doh!  Well I only paid 10 bucks for the kindle edition which I can read at work so well worth it, I saw articles and videos on the website but looks like they now charge for the book content?  Unless I just missed it.  Thanks for all the info look forward to getting with the program!

Here's the website I get most of my info from: http://startingstren...g_Strength_Wiki

[Gupps01]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1353714658' post='5970537']
[quote name='Gupps01' timestamp='1353712046' post='5970379']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1353693537' post='5969491']
[quote name='Gupps01' timestamp='1353684098' post='5969093']
[quote name='Agent Jim' timestamp='1353623373' post='5967159']
I think people should choose what their body type allows. I only see major problems when people go outside that. I have a friend who is an animal with weights, but running as cardio is not his thing at all. For me, 6'01 170lbs, i've never had the body type to pack on big ol muscles. I've always been able to run no problem, so thats what I stick to. Its more important to find something you can stick to.
When someone asks me what they should do I tell them the same thing every time. It is the most important and you will see benefits in everything you do. That one thing more important then anything else is flexibility. Without a doubt the most overlooked, yet the most important. Before starting any type workout I tell people to do a solid month of flexibility exercises first. It helps you get into a routine, and you can do it all at home. Once you routinely set aside that time of the day, you can easily plug other things in.
[/quote]

I agree that flexibility is important but what is more important is mobility coupled with stability/strength in the correct areas. Take the hips for example. If they are not mobile enough through the anterior section and are not strong enough through the posterior chain, you can do some fairly sizable damage to knees, ankles, lumbar spine etc. I can get real technical about landing angles of the lower leg and internal rotation angles of the femur during ground contact in running but basically if glute med is not strong enough to externally rotate the femur and the hip flexors are overly short then they've found that has a significant correlation to knee injury.

As for actual weight training, I'm mucking around with combining different parts of the Chinese, Bulgarian and Russian weightlifting systems and the Westside Barbell method (which is based on a mixture of the Bulgarian and Russian systems anyway). It'll be interesting to see how they can be mixed.
[/quote]

I experimented with sheiko for a while. I don't think I was far enough down the line to properly utilize the program. I think once I get to a 4 plate squat I'll give shieko another go. Haven't heard much of the chinese or bulgarian programs, are those more volume oriented like sheiko?
[/quote]
The Bulgarian method is basically maxing out in the classic lifts (snatch and clean & jerk) and either the front or back squat each day. It's extremely hard due to this constant daily max and the fact they only do six exercises (the classic lifts, the power versions and front/back squats). According to the old team doctors, most of them could handle it physically but mental they just broke down. A session may look like this:

Back Squat to 1RM
Rest 30min
Snatch to 1RM
Rest 30min
C&J to 1RM
Leave gym.

Do that 6 days a week and you may struggle to move after a while.

The Chinese sort of took the best parts of the Russian system (volume and rotating exercises in and out of the training program) and the Bulgarian (daily max's and time spent doing the classic lifts) and combined them. Now I'm quite new to the Chinese system and still have a lot of info to sift through but a sample session may look like this depending on the lifter (the Chinese are always looking to improve weaknesses rather than build strengths)
Monday
Snatch to 1RM (3×3)
CNJ to 1RM (3×2)
Back Squats (5-7 x 3-5)
Clean Pulls (5 x 3)
Behind neck push press (5 x 2-5)

Tuesday
Snatch to 1RM (5-8 x 2-3) – Overhead squat after completion of each rep)
Snatch Balance (5-8 x 1-3)
Snatch Pulls (5-6 x 2-3)
Block High Snatch Pulls with Rebend (6-8 x 2-3)

Wednesday
Clean + FS + Jerk 1RM (5-8 x 2)
Front Squats (5-8 x 1 -3)
Clean Pulls (5-6 x 3)
Behind Neck Push Jerk (8 x 1)
Push Press (5 x 3 )

Thursday
Back Squats to 1RM (6-8 x 2-5)
Snatch 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Clean and Jerk 85-90% (2-3 x1)
Strict Press (5 x 3-5)

Friday
Snatch to 1RM (3 x 1)
CNJ to 1RM (3 x 1)
Snatch Pulls (5 x 3)
Block snatch high pull with rebend (5 x 2-3)
Jerk Drives (8×3) – About the same weight as your max 1RM back squats

Saturday
Front Squats to 1RM (5-6 x 1-3)
Platform Clean Deadlifts (5-6 x 1-3)
Snatch Balance (5-6 x 1-3)
Push Jerk (5×1-3)
[/quote]

Holy moly....Those all sound like so much work! Really interesting stuff, seems like that Bulgarian stuff wouldn't allow the body enough time to recover. It must work though! Sounds like something to try in the offseason when I'm looking to torture myself. I really want to incorporate Oly lifts to build some explosiveness for basketball.
[/quote]

Yeah it is alot of work. These programs are for elite level weightlifters so all they do is eat, sleep and train full time. You don't necessarily need to do six days a week to see benefits. Four days a week split into two lower and two upper body sessions will do fine for most sports in the offseason/preseason. Just make sure you work all parts of the force/velocity curve rather than just one end all the time. Also pay real close attention to recovery after sessions. Thats what allows you to train hard all year round.