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An honest, unthought mistake...now what


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#1 Sniperman

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

I've been playing golf for about 5 years, started in '07 after a successful fight with colon cancer.  Over the course, as my game was gradually improving and stated beating all my friends who's played the game longer, I was encouraged to get an official handicap.  Having limited budget to play, I always leaned over using the $50 for a weekend round.  Then finally, last month, I took the plunge and got myself an official USGA handicap.

After reading up on how the handicap system works, and slowly grasping the calculation method, I've come to realize that I have been entering my scores incorrectly.  Instead of entering the "ESC," I've been entering the raw score.  My index right now is listed as 5.8 based on raw scores entered.

If I had been entering my ESC versus raw, does it mean I would have a slightly lower index?  Would this be labeled as sandbagging?  I would edit my scores, but the USGA system doesn't allow the user, and I don't feel it would make much of a difference to warrant a call to my club and submit a revision to the USGA.  I believe I have entered about 25 rounds.

Thoughts?

And yes, going forward I will enter the ESC!

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#2 tesuquegolfer

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:04 PM

As a 5.8 I would think you wouldn't have that many ESC scores.  I think it will average out in a very short time now that you know how to enter scores correctly.

#3 mwkbmw

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Does ESC apply when playing a club tournament?
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#4 plus8

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:39 PM

View Posttesuquegolfer, on 20 November 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

As a 5.8 I would think you wouldn't have that many ESC scores.  I think it will average out in a very short time now that you know how to enter scores correctly.

Agree!  You have a lot of triples and quads flying around at 5.8??

#5 highergr0und

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:51 PM

As a 5.8, I somehow doubt ESC will do much to your cap since you still count doubles.  Your cap will adjust slightly downward going forward.


#6 highergr0und

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

View Postmwkbmw, on 20 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Does ESC apply when playing a club tournament?

ESC always applies, but a common misconception is that you take the ESC score during a round.  That's not the case.  You shoot what you shoot in the tourney (or any round), but when you're entering the score into the computer, you adjust any holes where your score was outside the limit down to the ESC number.

Example, the 5.8 has a max score of double bogey.  If he blows up a par 4 and gets a 12, he writes that 12 on the card, and let's say he shoots an 88 for the round.  He posts that score with the tournament officials.  When entering the round for handicap purposes, his max ESC score on the hole is a 6, so he enters a 6 for the hole and his score is 82.

#7 Sniperman

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

Thanks for all the input.

As I expected, it wouldn't make much of a difference based on the feedback.

For those wondering or asking about trips or higher, out of the 25 rounds, there were two trips I counted and both were on the same course, the same round.  Occasional doubles here and there, but as pointed out above, I would still be counting those anyway.

I feel better already, I was worried I'd be labeled a sandbagger and dishonest as I plan to enter more tournaments next year.
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#8 mwkbmw

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

View Posthighergr0und, on 20 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

View Postmwkbmw, on 20 November 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Does ESC apply when playing a club tournament?

ESC always applies, but a common misconception is that you take the ESC score during a round.  That's not the case.  You shoot what you shoot in the tourney (or any round), but when you're entering the score into the computer, you adjust any holes where your score was outside the limit down to the ESC number.

Example, the 5.8 has a max score of double bogey.  If he blows up a par 4 and gets a 12, he writes that 12 on the card, and let's say he shoots an 88 for the round.  He posts that score with the tournament officials.  When entering the round for handicap purposes, his max ESC score on the hole is a 6, so he enters a 6 for the hole and his score is 82.

Thanks. That's what I thought, but wasn't positive.
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#9 Fade

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostSniperman, on 20 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

After reading up on how the handicap system works, and slowly grasping the calculation method, I've come to realize that I have been entering my scores incorrectly.  Instead of entering the "ESC," I've been entering the raw score.  My index right now is listed as 5.8 based on raw scores entered.

What do you enter? Scores for the entire round or hole-by-hole scores? In case of the latter, if the software is fed enough information about the course you are playing, as well as your HI, it seems possible that it applied ESC for you.

#10 Sawgrass

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostSniperman, on 20 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:


As I expected, it wouldn't make much of a difference based on the feedback.

For those wondering or asking about trips or higher, out of the 25 rounds, there were two trips I counted and both were on the same course, the same round.  Occasional doubles here and there, but as pointed out above, I would still be counting those anyway.

I feel better already, I was worried I'd be labeled a sandbagger and dishonest as I plan to enter more tournaments next year.

If you only had one round when you failed to lower your score to an ESC score, it may or may not make a difference depending on two things:  1) Is this score still in your most recent 20 scores?  2) If it is, is it one of the ten lowest scores (differentials) that are being used in your calculation, or is it possible that it will be one of ten lowest if a lower score gets aged out?  (I suppose the one round when you recorded two tripple bogies isn't likely a round that's in your best 10, but for all I know you had 16 birdies along with the two bogies.)

If it were me, and if the incorrectly high score was being used (or was likely to be used) I'd have it changed.  If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.  IMO there is no down side to asking for the correction to be made.  At the very worst it shows your fellow club members that you are trying.


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#11 tmfool

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

has the 5.8 allowed you to collect $ playing net tournaments?
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#12 rogolf

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

View PostSniperman, on 20 November 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

As I expected, it wouldn't make much of a difference based on the feedback.

For those wondering or asking about trips or higher, out of the 25 rounds, there were two trips I counted and both were on the same course, the same round.  Occasional doubles here and there, but as pointed out above, I would still be counting those anyway.

I feel better already, I was worried I'd be labeled a sandbagger and dishonest as I plan to enter more tournaments next year.

If you only had one round when you failed to lower your score to an ESC score, it may or may not make a difference depending on two things:  1) Is this score still in your most recent 20 scores?  2) If it is, is it one of the ten lowest scores (differentials) that are being used in your calculation, or is it possible that it will be one of ten lowest if a lower score gets aged out?  (I suppose the one round when you recorded two tripple bogies isn't likely a round that's in your best 10, but for all I know you had 16 birdies along with the two bogies.)

If it were me, and if the incorrectly high score was being used (or was likely to be used) I'd have it changed.  If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.  IMO there is no down side to asking for the correction to be made.  At the very worst it shows your fellow club members that you are trying.

I think it's a little premature to label this individual as a sandbagger based on a single error.  Imo, the sandbagger label is earned by repeated and uncorrected episodes of winning in several competitions involving handicaps.

#13 Veng

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.
Words, just like rules, have definitions and sandbagging requires intent. :)

#14 Sniperman

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

Thanks for the insightful thoughts.

I only joined one tournament last year and that was before I had an "official" handicap.  I did not purposely enter the wrong scores, rather it was my ignorance and unfamiliarity with the system.  The only games I win $$ from is with my regular group of friends, and we have a different scoring/handicapping system.

We'll see how it goes in the 2013 season as I plan on joining more tournaments.
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#15 Sawgrass

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:59 PM

View PostVeng, on 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.
Words, just like rules, have definitions and sandbagging requires intent. :)

I hope it's clear that I'm not ridiculing Sniperman. I'm not. Rather, I'm pleased/impressed that he asked.  Apologies if that didn't come through.

I stand corrected on my statement that he "is" a sandbagger since I agree that intent is required to be a sandbagger.  However, if you become aware that your handicap is too high, and you don't take steps to correct it, are you not using a higher than appropriate handicap with intent?  I think you are, and I think it's appropriate to change the score if it's being used.  And if you don't, then the "S" word applies.

Edited by Sawgrass, 26 November 2012 - 04:59 PM.


#16 Veng

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:46 PM

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

View PostVeng, on 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.
Words, just like rules, have definitions and sandbagging requires intent. :)

I hope it's clear that I'm not ridiculing Sniperman. I'm not. Rather, I'm pleased/impressed that he asked.  Apologies if that didn't come through.

I stand corrected on my statement that he "is" a sandbagger since I agree that intent is required to be a sandbagger.  However, if you become aware that your handicap is too high, and you don't take steps to correct it, are you not using a higher than appropriate handicap with intent?  I think you are, and I think it's appropriate to change the score if it's being used.  And if you don't, then the "S" word applies.
Now that, I can certainly agree with.

#17 wobgon

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:44 PM

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

View PostVeng, on 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

View PostSawgrass, on 26 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If it is being used, then like it or not,  you are a sandbagger.
Words, just like rules, have definitions and sandbagging requires intent. :)

I hope it's clear that I'm not ridiculing Sniperman. I'm not. Rather, I'm pleased/impressed that he asked.  Apologies if that didn't come through.

I stand corrected on my statement that he "is" a sandbagger since I agree that intent is required to be a sandbagger.  However, if you become aware that your handicap is too high, and you don't take steps to correct it, are you not using a higher than appropriate handicap with intent?  I think you are, and I think it's appropriate to change the score if it's being used.  And if you don't, then the "S" word applies.
In my opinion, the game of golf would be a lot better off if all so called sandbaggers were more like the OP.

#18 atlanta golfer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:10 AM

I've entered incorrect scores before and within a day, sent an email to the appropriate person at my state golf association and they corrected the scores for me in the system.  However, if this happened quite a bit in the past, that may not be an option for you.  I would say just keep playing and the incorrect scores will quickly work themselves out.

#19 Fade

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:25 AM

The appropriate sentence for this transgression is a golf-community service of 20 rounds in which the handicap index is properly maintained but not used. :)

#20 Sniperman

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostFade, on 27 November 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

The appropriate sentence for this transgression is a golf-community service of 20 rounds in which the handicap index is properly maintained but not used. :)

I hope you're a judge with jurisdiction in CA so you can impose this sentence on me!

In the spirit of the game and for integrity purposes, I spoke to my club and asked that they send a revision - even though he said it probably won't make a difference.  Revision was sent an hour ago.

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#21 Veng

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

Good move.

#22 Sawgrass

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

View PostSniperman, on 27 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:


In the spirit of the game and for integrity purposes, I spoke to my club and asked that they send a revision - even though he said it probably won't make a difference.  Revision was sent an hour ago.

The "now what" part of this thread's title has been resolved.

I know it's a small thing, but if I were you I'd end up feeling good about this.

You've learned a bit about how it's supposed to work.  And after you came to understand the issues, "fixiing" it was probably easier than writing about it here in the first place.

A perfect result, a perfect thread.

#23 Fade

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

View PostSniperman, on 27 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

In the spirit of the game and for integrity purposes, I spoke to my club and asked that they send a revision - even though he said it probably won't make a difference.  Revision was sent an hour ago.

Great that it was fixable. Now you can stop worrying about it. Congrats!




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