52 replies to this topic

[ColdFyre]

I had a chance to play @PGA West Stadium Course a few years ago a day or 2 prior to the start of Qschool (not sure what stage). That course was in the best condition of any I've played, including Pebble Beach (which I was lucky enough to go play a few months ago).

There were some REAL big differences. Here are the ones that stood out for me.
-Fairways were smooth and got lots of roll (I averaged a good 15-20 yards more than normal)
-When you took a divot, it was this beautiful piece of carpet that stayed in tact and it even sounded different when you struck the ground.
-Every bunker was pristine. Same type of sand & same consistency.
-The rough was consistently brutal. Had to strike it perfect to even think about getting it out. Caught some flyers. Was amazed how little distance control you get from 'tour rough. Nothing like the avg muni.
-When you hit the green with a nice shot, it made a VERY distinctive 'thunk', took a hop and then spun. It was the same on every green. VERY consistent on the "feel"  (you know how some greens are just "harder" or "softer" on your home course? Yeah, none of that here)
-Conststent speed on the greens. Cut and rolled perfect.

At that time I think I was playing to a 12 or 13 handicap from the blues and I shot an 85. Course was so hard It FELT like I shot a 62.  OP said it best... apples and oranges (at least as far as course conditions go

[KC21Balla]

I dont post much on this site but I had to pipe in on this one to the guy saying that its just a bunch of guys competing to be millionaires. Now this may be true to some degree but as a guy who has had many friends go to q school and a couple that have gotten tour cards. It is far more then competing to be millionaires. Golf is not like other sports in the fact that once you get your tour card you are not guaranteed anything. Its not like you get a contract once you get your tour card that you are going to make x-amount for the next 5 years. This tournament is (was) the most compelling event every year. 2nd stage being the most important out of any.

[micha]

Wow Im going to have to disagree with the pressure being overblown at Q school. Its the mentally hardest tournament any of these guys will play in. And if u dont get past second stage, its another year toiling about the Mini tours trying to break even. Most youngsters who are serious about playing PGA Tour dont have PGA assistant jobs or any other even mediocre paying job to fall back on. Maybe they wash carts at a TPC course to have a place to practice and play and fund their mini tour events. Or maybe they have to go back to their donors and beg for another year of sponsorship. I once caddied for a friend who missed getting his tour card by 1 at PGA West a few years back. All week long and especially the final day you can feel the tension in the air. This is far more pressure than a Monday qualifier or US Open qualifier. It basically determines what the next year of your life will be like. Those who can cope the best can fall back on their college and pro experience playing many multi round events in pressure situations. But Im not buying that most have this nothing to lose golly schucks mentality especially in the 2nd or 3rd stages.

[MadGolfer76]

MonteScheinblum, on 19 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

MadGolfer76, on 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 16 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

2nd Stage of Q-school is the second worst pressure cooker in all of sports behind the Olympic trials.

Everyone pontificates about finals, but once you get there, unless you throw up all over yourself, you have a good place to play the next year.  If you miss at second stage, which is not hard to do, you are up **** creek without a paddle, boat, sunlight, or toliet paper.

2nd stage of q-school is a house of horrors for me that makes any scary movie look like an episode of Dora the Explorer.

Well, without any firsthand experience, let me just say (as the father of a two year old girl) that if you watch enough consecutive episodes of Dora the Explorer, you will start to claw your own eyes out from the strain.

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  Max and Ruby, Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Team Umizoomi.....kill,me now.

Mickey Mouse FunHouse for me too. I had a nightmare where I found myself doing the "Hot Dog Dance," only to wake up and find that I have been sleep-dancing the Hot Dog Dance and my wife just let me do it because she thought it was funny.

[Golflb33]

esketores, on 16 November 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Here, here.

What he said. A lot of friends have went through Q School. 2 fly out to catalunia today for final qualifying.

Its a killer to watch as its so harsh. I feel the nerves watching online. Everyone is pushing for it.


Lew

[Fore(ged)]

Obviously Q school has multiple tournaments you must win/place in order to get your card. What do you do if you are a PGA Tour player who ends up out of the top 125 by playing in the fall series but miss the beginning of Q school because you are playing on tour. Do you just miss out on Q school?

[justinp766]

I was just thinking the other day........I birdied the first three holes at my home course.....6000 yds from the blues.....69.8 course rating / 127 slope rating.  Finished the day with 5 birdies and 4 bogeys.... I was like hmmm im getting good...then I saw the following.

Q school 2nd stage course: Southern Hills Plantation.....playing 7557 yds , 77 course rating / 138 slope....Id be extremely lucky too shoot 76 there.

[bobfoster]

Sean2, on 17 November 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Tmiller72, on 17 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Too bad the PGA Tour decided to kill one of the best tournaments to watch.

I thought so too.

Yes ... this is the last year isn't it.

I agree, I always watch it, and think it is one of the more stunning tournaments in all of golf. The ultimate test of nerves.

I'm sure everyone here has read it, but in case you haven't Feinstein's "Tales From Q School" is a genuinely great book.

[golfin2]

justinp766, on 22 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I was just thinking the other day........I birdied the first three holes at my home course.....6000 yds from the blues.....69.8 course rating / 127 slope rating.  Finished the day with 5 birdies and 4 bogeys.... I was like hmmm im getting good...then I saw the following.

Q school 2nd stage course: Southern Hills Plantation.....playing 7557 yds , 77 course rating / 138 slope....Id be extremely lucky too shoot 76 there.

...

You'd be lucky to break 90.

[justinp766]

golfin2, on 24 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

justinp766, on 22 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I was just thinking the other day........I birdied the first three holes at my home course.....6000 yds from the blues.....69.8 course rating / 127 slope rating.  Finished the day with 5 birdies and 4 bogeys.... I was like hmmm im getting good...then I saw the following.

Q school 2nd stage course: Southern Hills Plantation.....playing 7557 yds , 77 course rating / 138 slope....Id be extremely lucky too shoot 76 there.

...

You'd be lucky to break 90.

is this where I go ...Yeah and you would be lucky to break 100?

Edited by justinp766, 24 November 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[MonteScheinblum]

MadGolfer76, on 20 November 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 19 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

MadGolfer76, on 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

MonteScheinblum, on 16 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

2nd Stage of Q-school is the second worst pressure cooker in all of sports behind the Olympic trials.

Everyone pontificates about finals, but once you get there, unless you throw up all over yourself, you have a good place to play the next year.  If you miss at second stage, which is not hard to do, you are up **** creek without a paddle, boat, sunlight, or toliet paper.

2nd stage of q-school is a house of horrors for me that makes any scary movie look like an episode of Dora the Explorer.

Well, without any firsthand experience, let me just say (as the father of a two year old girl) that if you watch enough consecutive episodes of Dora the Explorer, you will start to claw your own eyes out from the strain.

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  Max and Ruby, Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Team Umizoomi.....kill,me now.

Mickey Mouse FunHouse for me too. I had a nightmare where I found myself doing the "Hot Dog Dance," only to wake up and find that I have been sleep-dancing the Hot Dog Dance and my wife just let me do it because she thought it was funny.

The ultimate nightmare for me would be playing second stage of q-school naked, playing with Dora, Bot and Cubby, while all of my ex girlfriends watch and laugh as I am suffering from a severe cae of shrinkage.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

justinp766, on 24 November 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

golfin2, on 24 November 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

justinp766, on 22 November 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I was just thinking the other day........I birdied the first three holes at my home course.....6000 yds from the blues.....69.8 course rating / 127 slope rating.  Finished the day with 5 birdies and 4 bogeys.... I was like hmmm im getting good...then I saw the following.

Q school 2nd stage course: Southern Hills Plantation.....playing 7557 yds , 77 course rating / 138 slope....Id be extremely lucky too shoot 76 there.

...

You'd be lucky to break 90.

is this where I go ...Yeah and you would be lucky to break 100?

Could be if he provided the information you did. From your info:

That is an average 86.5 yds. a hole longer. Those bogeys and birdies on the 6000 yd. track just turned into doubles and pars on the 7557 yd. track. Add another 6 bogeys for the course rating differential and you have a 19 stroke swing. Think about it, considering the track will also be set up to Tour specs, 90 might be a respectable score for you. Coming from a familiar 6K yd. course to an unfamiliar 7.5K yd. course with a withering course rating, you will be challenged on each and every shot.

[Artemicion]

My home course has a 135 slope, last time I played off the blues (~6100 yards) I think I shot 4 or 5 under; when I play it off the tips (~7500 yards) I reckon I had a pretty decent round if I break 80. So that's about 10 or so shots extra. If the rough would be as thick as it is on tour my scores would be even worse, althought 19 extra shots may be a bit exaggerated.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

Artemicion, on 25 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

My home course has a 135 slope, last time I played off the blues (~6100 yards) I think I shot 4 or 5 under; when I play it off the tips (~7500 yards) I reckon I had a pretty decent round if I break 80. So that's about 10 or so shots extra. If the rough would be as thick as it is on tour my scores would be even worse, althought 19 extra shots may be a bit exaggerated.

You calculate the difficulty by using the slope, which is used to calculate a bogey golfer's handicap. Using the course rating (for Par golfers), like in my figures, I think the numbers are close considering the course ratings were 6 strokes apart. Anytime a course rating is above par, 5 strokes in this case, you are in for a challenge. Either way, 10- 19 strokes is easily possible and not that bad for someone who does not play professionally.

[Artemicion]

KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE, on 25 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

You calculate the difficulty by using the slope, which is used to calculate a bogey golfer's handicap. Using the course rating (for Par golfers), like in my figures, I think the numbers are close considering the course ratings were 6 strokes apart. Anytime a course rating is above par, 5 strokes in this case, you are in for a challenge. Either way, 10- 19 strokes is easily possible and not that bad for someone who does not play professionally.

I must admit I've never really paid attention to slope and course ratings, I just gauge the difficulty of different courses going by my scores. Thanks for the info.

[station2station]

OP is right - it's a nightmare for most.  I have a good buddy who is 42 years old who still goes thru it every 2-3 years - and gets thru.  Most of the time he is trying to increase his ranking so it's an optional thing for him - but this year he must go thru it - not optional.

It's his livelihood and this year it's in his mind before each night when laying in bed..  He pegs it up this coming Thursday.

Edited by station2station, 25 November 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[Jim Clark]

Any player, rookie or veteran, will tell you there's more pressure at Q-School than any other tournament, including majors. Getting your Tour card does not guaranty any success but at least you get to play with big boys and are not sent back to the minors (Web.com).

[teejaywhy]

Fore(ged), on 21 November 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Obviously Q school has multiple tournaments you must win/place in order to get your card. What do you do if you are a PGA Tour player who ends up out of the top 125 by playing in the fall series but miss the beginning of Q school because you are playing on tour. Do you just miss out on Q school?

126-150 on the money list are exempt into the final stage.

[rockinar]

Most of these Q school grinders will get put out in the final stage by PGA Tour pros who lost their card and are trying to get another. Those grinders that do get their card will miss most of the cuts, make almost no money and be back to square one next year. Getting a card is not really a life changing event unless you can keep it. That's harder than getting one.

Edited by rockinar, 28 November 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[gnicolls]

Any idea why Morgan Hoffman is qualifying? I thought he earned his card at web.com championship.

[station2station]

gnicolls, on 28 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Any idea why Morgan Hoffman is qualifying? I thought he earned his card at web.com championship.

I can't speak to his situation, but you are welcome to go thru q-school to boost your ranking status even though you already have your card.

Edited by station2station, 28 November 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Orlimar1]

station2station, on 28 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

gnicolls, on 28 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Any idea why Morgan Hoffman is qualifying? I thought he earned his card at web.com championship.

I can't speak to his situation, but you are welcome to go thru q-school to boost your ranking status even though you already have your card.

I agree.  It's worth the time and effort to try to get into more tournaments with a good finish.

[Pepperturbo]

CallawayLefty, on 16 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Pepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

You might be over thinking how many of the youngsters feel going into Q school.  Some do have cope with anxiety, but most have nothing to lose.  It's the big daddy of them all step, that could change one's life.  But, if they don't make it, they go back to what they were doing.

I know a few guys that are assistant pros, others have normal day jobs and make decent livings.  I even know a few business owners that have tackled Q.  They look at Q school much like those that tackle US Open Monday qualifiers... if then.. but if not, oh well.  I have met a number of guys when Q school is at PGA West, and PGA qualifiers were held at my old club.  What's fun is playing all the courses they tackle during Q school.  Some of them do go low though... it impressive, given the context.

I don't for one second believe that those kids dont really care whether they go back to making $8 per hour in the pro shop instead of playing pro golf for up to millions of dollars per year.  If you don't think they're invested, youre fooling yourself.

Don't really care????   Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you like putting words in my mouth to augment your words.  You're the one that's fooling himself regarding emotional outlook (mental health).  I choose "hope".  An emotionally healthy person knows from the start he should be happy doing what ever job he has choose, knowing it's only a step on the ladder.  He also knows when tackling big challenges, if he doesn't make the cut, his life is NOT over.  There are other opportunities later on.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 29 November 2012 - 01:40 PM.