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Good heavens - Q school is brutal


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#1 CallawayLefty

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

I have been watching the Q school leader boards since pre-qualifying.  It's always cool to see names you recognize from around your area and see how they do out there.  I have been one watching in particular one local D1 college player who absolutely has dominated in college this year (he goes to my alma mater, so I've been paying particular attention).  He did well in pre-qualifying, won his first stage, and now just missed it at the second stage by 3 shots without ever shooting a round over par.  His second stage included a host of nationwide earners, PGA millionaires, and 2 former major champions.  I know from watching his scores in local stuff and in college that he'll get there eventually (he's not even a senior yet), but my goodness this just makes me realize how crazy harsh/brutal Q school is.  Some guy at another site shot 61 the other day.  Multiple people at multiple sites are eyeing over 15 under.  And if you read stuff like Monte's blog (and other sites), the set-ups are just insanely difficult.

I don't know what sport those guys play, but it's not the same one that I'll be playing when I tee off tomorrow morning.  Apples and oranges.


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#2 esketores

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:23 PM

Here, here.
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#3 MadGolfer76

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

I would think it would fun as hell, on one level anyway.
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#4 CallawayLefty

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I would think it would fun as hell, on one level anyway.

Sure, it would be awesome and fun as hell.  But it would also be terrifying if you were one of the ones who was playing in the hopes of putting food on the table with the results.  There are lots of guys out there who clearly aren't too worried about money (PGA winners, Web.com "lifers," etc.).  But for every one of them, there's 2 or 3 kids who have been living out of their cars on loans from the family and guys at their country clubs who are trying to figure out whether they'll make it or whether they'll have to go back to delivering pizzas to pay for Q school next year.  And of course this year has the added "fun" of it being the last year of "real" Q school.

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#5 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:59 PM

I think the final stage of Q School is one of the most compelling "tournaments" of the year, and that includes all of the majors. Why? The human drama. You go the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. To me, watching a millionaire win $1.2 million is nothing compared to watching some guy sink a putt, and making the PGA Tour by one stroke, who can barely afford a hotel room, or car insurance. Or worse, the tragedy of seeing someone miss getting his card by one stroke because he lipped out a three foot putt. That is golf writ large.

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#6 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:00 PM

You might be over thinking how many of the youngsters feel going into Q school.  Some do have cope with anxiety, but most have nothing to lose.  It's the big daddy of them all step, that could change one's life.  But, if they don't make it, they go back to what they were doing.

I know a few guys that are assistant pros, others have normal day jobs and make decent livings.  I even know a few business owners that have tackled Q.  They look at Q school much like those that tackle US Open Monday qualifiers... if then.. but if not, oh well.  I have met a number of guys when Q school is at PGA West, and PGA qualifiers were held at my old club.  What's fun is playing all the courses they tackle during Q school.  Some of them do go low though... it impressive, given the context.
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#7 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:09 PM

You're probably right Pepper. I've been told I'm "exquisitely hypersensitive". I can almost feel the anxiety emanating from the television. It just seems much more heightened in Q-School then in "regular" tournaments.
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#8 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

You're probably right Pepper. I've been told I'm "exquisitely hypersensitive". I can almost feel the anxiety emanating from the television. It just seems much more heightened in Q-School then in "regular" tournaments.

TV media contributes through conjecture and the what if's... or he needs to and then.  People watching ponder from there and think about how they might feel under those circumstances.  I am not saying some don't feel pressure, some do.  But, others actually like pressure, and do not take it too heart; I am one.  

Some people like being thrown into a pressure cooker and can play great golf.  They take the environment, and the associated attention as motivation to raise to the occasion.

PS, Years back there was a time when I had to cope with worries associated with making sure payroll is covered for 80 people.  That was far more pressure then showing up to play a game I love, and just maybe if I put 7 solid rds back to back, I might make the cut.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 16 November 2012 - 06:28 PM.

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#9 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:31 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

You're probably right Pepper. I've been told I'm "exquisitely hypersensitive". I can almost feel the anxiety emanating from the television. It just seems much more heightened in Q-School then in "regular" tournaments.

TV media contributes through conjecture and the what if's... or he needs to and then.  People watching ponder from there and think about how they might feel under those circumstances.  I am not saying some don't feel pressure, some do.  But, others actually like pressure, and do not take it too heart; I am one.  

Some people like being thrown into a pressure cooker and can play great golf.  They take the environment, and the associated attention as motivation to raise to the occasion.
True, but I wonder if the pressure of Q/S is different. One and done so to speak. There is no: well there is always next week. Every stroke is precious.
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#10 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

You're probably right Pepper. I've been told I'm "exquisitely hypersensitive". I can almost feel the anxiety emanating from the television. It just seems much more heightened in Q-School then in "regular" tournaments.

TV media contributes through conjecture and the what if's... or he needs to and then.  People watching ponder from there and think about how they might feel under those circumstances.  I am not saying some don't feel pressure, some do.  But, others actually like pressure, and do not take it too heart; I am one.  

Some people like being thrown into a pressure cooker and can play great golf.  They take the environment, and the associated attention as motivation to raise to the occasion.
True, but I wonder if the pressure of Q/S is different. One and done so to speak. There is no: well there is always next week. Every stroke is precious.

You're right - there is no next week... but there always next year, presuming one has the entrance fee.

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#11 MadGolfer76

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:41 PM

View PostCallawayLefty, on 16 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

I would think it would fun as hell, on one level anyway.

Sure, it would be awesome and fun as hell.  But it would also be terrifying if you were one of the ones who was playing in the hopes of putting food on the table with the results.  There are lots of guys out there who clearly aren't too worried about money (PGA winners, Web.com "lifers," etc.).  But for every one of them, there's 2 or 3 kids who have been living out of their cars on loans from the family and guys at their country clubs who are trying to figure out whether they'll make it or whether they'll have to go back to delivering pizzas to pay for Q school next year.  And of course this year has the added "fun" of it being the last year of "real" Q school.

Oh, come on. Do you really think I hadn't considered the rest of it? That is why I said "on one level."

The young guys will have other chances, and the guys legitimately worried about the welfare of their families have to remember that the choice was theirs. "9 to 5" will always be there. They are all competing to live millionaire lifestyles - what exactly should I say? "Aww, the poor dears?"
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#12 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)
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#13 MadGolfer76

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol
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#14 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol
They run over the wrong stuff anyway...
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#15 CallawayLefty

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

You might be over thinking how many of the youngsters feel going into Q school.  Some do have cope with anxiety, but most have nothing to lose.  It's the big daddy of them all step, that could change one's life.  But, if they don't make it, they go back to what they were doing.

I know a few guys that are assistant pros, others have normal day jobs and make decent livings.  I even know a few business owners that have tackled Q.  They look at Q school much like those that tackle US Open Monday qualifiers... if then.. but if not, oh well.  I have met a number of guys when Q school is at PGA West, and PGA qualifiers were held at my old club.  What's fun is playing all the courses they tackle during Q school.  Some of them do go low though... it impressive, given the context.

I don't for one second believe that those kids dont really care whether they go back to making $8 per hour in the pro shop instead of playing pro golf for up to millions of dollars per year.  If you don't think they're invested, youre fooling yourself.


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#16 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:13 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

You're probably right Pepper. I've been told I'm "exquisitely hypersensitive". I can almost feel the anxiety emanating from the television. It just seems much more heightened in Q-School then in "regular" tournaments.

TV media contributes through conjecture and the what if's... or he needs to and then.  People watching ponder from there and think about how they might feel under those circumstances.  I am not saying some don't feel pressure, some do.  But, others actually like pressure, and do not take it too heart; I am one.  

Some people like being thrown into a pressure cooker and can play great golf.  They take the environment, and the associated attention as motivation to raise to the occasion.
True, but I wonder if the pressure of Q/S is different. One and done so to speak. There is no: well there is always next week. Every stroke is precious.

You're right - there is no next week... but there always next year, presuming one has the entrance fee.
But when you're a twenty-something Pepper next year is an eternity. :-)
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#17 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

Sorry - but some of you want it only one way - you're view; that just isn't how it works for people chasing high pressure positions.  Course, to know that one must do more then talk about what they think on a discussion board.

Let me add this "pressure" view to your idealism.  If young men were all made like you believe, worried about going back to $8 jobs, we wouldn't have Special Forces, Seals or all the young men and women that enter the government agencies looking to be operators, knowing their life is going to be on the line... that is pressure, yet we still do it.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 16 November 2012 - 07:34 PM.

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#18 KYMAR

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol

Does that mean that dude who ran over Stephen King was looking for dinner?

Q school pressure would be too much for me I think. Especially coming down the stretch with a chance to advance.Just never think straight in that spot
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#19 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 16 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol

Does that mean that dude who ran over Stephen King was looking for dinner?

Q school pressure would be too much for me I think. Especially coming down the stretch with a chance to advance.Just never think straight in that spot
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#20 cb24

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:56 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Sorry - but some of you want it only one way - you're view; that just isn't how it works for people chasing high pressure positions.  Course, to know that one must do more then talk about what they think on a discussion board.

Let me add this "pressure" view to your idealism.  If young men were all made like you believe, worried about going back to $8 jobs, we wouldn't have Special Forces, Seals or all the young men and women that enter the government agencies looking to be operators, knowing their life is going to be on the line... that is pressure, yet we still do it.

and you dont want it as your view only?  really dont understand why you think only you are allowed to disagree and anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong, because of course you would never be incorrect


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#21 Birdies4Days

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

My friend (Bhavik Patel) is currently in 2nd place at -12 under. Couple years ago we played every Saturday of the summer. He is an amazing player and looking forward to him making it on tour hopefully.

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#22 MadGolfer76

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:59 PM

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 16 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol

Does that mean that dude who ran over Stephen King was looking for dinner?

Q school pressure would be too much for me I think. Especially coming down the stretch with a chance to advance.Just never think straight in that spot
Priceless.

He tracked that dude down and pestered him into suicide.
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#23 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 16 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostMadGolfer76, on 16 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 16 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Guys from Maine are tough. They eat roadkill. :-)

Only what we run over ourselves. Don't need freebies from tourists. lol

Does that mean that dude who ran over Stephen King was looking for dinner?

Q school pressure would be too much for me I think. Especially coming down the stretch with a chance to advance.Just never think straight in that spot
Priceless.

He tracked that dude down and pestered him into suicide.
I can see that. That reminds me of a story. Winston Churchill was giving a campaign speech, and when he was wrapping it up a woman shouted from the audience:

"Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your tea!"
"Madam, if I were your husband I would drink it."
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#24 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

2nd Stage of Q-school is the second worst pressure cooker in all of sports behind the Olympic trials.

Everyone pontificates about finals, but once you get there, unless you throw up all over yourself, you have a good place to play the next year.  If you miss at second stage, which is not hard to do, you are up **** creek without a paddle, boat, sunlight, or toliet paper.

2nd stage of q-school is a house of horrors for me that makes any scary movie look like an episode of Dora the Explorer.
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#25 MadGolfer76

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 16 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

2nd Stage of Q-school is the second worst pressure cooker in all of sports behind the Olympic trials.

Everyone pontificates about finals, but once you get there, unless you throw up all over yourself, you have a good place to play the next year.  If you miss at second stage, which is not hard to do, you are up **** creek without a paddle, boat, sunlight, or toliet paper.

2nd stage of q-school is a house of horrors for me that makes any scary movie look like an episode of Dora the Explorer.

Well, without any firsthand experience, let me just say (as the father of a two year old girl) that if you watch enough consecutive episodes of Dora the Explorer, you will start to claw your own eyes out from the strain.

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#26 oregongolf

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostCallawayLefty, on 16 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

You might be over thinking how many of the youngsters feel going into Q school.  Some do have cope with anxiety, but most have nothing to lose.  It's the big daddy of them all step, that could change one's life.  But, if they don't make it, they go back to what they were doing.

I know a few guys that are assistant pros, others have normal day jobs and make decent livings.  I even know a few business owners that have tackled Q.  They look at Q school much like those that tackle US Open Monday qualifiers... if then.. but if not, oh well.  I have met a number of guys when Q school is at PGA West, and PGA qualifiers were held at my old club.  What's fun is playing all the courses they tackle during Q school.  Some of them do go low though... it impressive, given the context.

I don't for one second believe that those kids dont really care whether they go back to making $8 per hour in the pro shop instead of playing pro golf for up to millions of dollars per year.  If you don't think they're invested, youre fooling yourself.

What he says is true in some sense at prequalifying for q school because it's full of so many dreamers, but everything past that is all business, especially this year!

I was at a first stage site a month ago and EVERYONE was grinding. It's not like they get their kicks scraping it around on the various minitours and killing the dollar menu at McDonalds.

And I agree with Monte, second stage blows... couldn't imagine washing out there and not having a place to play after being so close.

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#27 Tmiller72

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

Too bad the PGA Tour decided to kill one of the best tournaments to watch.

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#28 Sean2

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostTmiller72, on 17 November 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Too bad the PGA Tour decided to kill one of the best tournaments to watch.
I thought so too.
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#29 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostMadGolfer76, on 17 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 16 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

2nd Stage of Q-school is the second worst pressure cooker in all of sports behind the Olympic trials.

Everyone pontificates about finals, but once you get there, unless you throw up all over yourself, you have a good place to play the next year.  If you miss at second stage, which is not hard to do, you are up **** creek without a paddle, boat, sunlight, or toliet paper.

2nd stage of q-school is a house of horrors for me that makes any scary movie look like an episode of Dora the Explorer.

Well, without any firsthand experience, let me just say (as the father of a two year old girl) that if you watch enough consecutive episodes of Dora the Explorer, you will start to claw your own eyes out from the strain.

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old.  Max and Ruby, Jake and the Neverland Pirates, Team Umizoomi.....kill,me now.
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#30 Awsi Dooger

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:51 PM

I didn't follow it closely this year but in checking a few cards it looked like Hank Kuehne had the most brutal collapse at second stage. He was comfortably in qualifying position until a bogey on 16 followed by double bogey on the par 5 18th to miss by 1 shot.


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