12 replies to this topic

[Featherbed Bent]

[russc]

oh yeah.so much so that you go through the brace of your right knee and load to the outside of your right foot
first you need to set up with some spine tilt at setup.then all you have to do is to windup around your tilted spine going back.See my post # 4166 on the 9-3 forum detailing how to do this.Second practice this  drill for 5 minutes /day for 2 weeks.
Without a club set up with some spine tilt.Place your hands on opposite shoulders and then just turn your  shoulders until they are in line with your right foot.At the top ,your head should be stable from its setup position and the outside of your left hip  should not have moved laterally.

[Featherbed Bent]

thank you very much for the feedback, greatly apprecaited!  will work on this as you have outlined

[Pinsplitter59]

cross your hands over your chest, turn you shoulders until in line with your right foot AND keep your head still??
is that an advanced yoga move?
or is your explanation lacking clarity.
i have a mate whose teacher has him doing this for the last ten years, he has not improved one bit.
it is impossible for a human to do what you suggest.
the head has to move backwards 6 inches and turn 90 degrees to do that.
as in the pic the best golfers ever could not do it.
perhaps you can clarify what you mean and take more care when giving tips to golfers.
Greg Norman has his left shoulder nearest his right foot,
but to do this his head has turned a lot and his left ear has moved to the rear about 6 inches.
remember Sam Sneads easy tip for a better swing?
he said turn your head in your backswing.
 left-shoulder-attop.jpg   33.73K   9 downloads

[chrisgilly09]

Lol nice one

[russc]

Pinsplitter59, on 17 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

cross your hands over your chest, turn you shoulders until in line with your right foot AND keep your head still??
is that an advanced yoga move?
or is your explanation lacking clarity.
i have a mate whose teacher has him doing this for the last ten years, he has not improved one bit.
it is impossible for a human to do what you suggest.
the head has to move backwards 6 inches and turn 90 degrees to do that.
as in the pic the best golfers ever could not do it.
perhaps you can clarify what you mean and take more care when giving tips to golfers.
Greg Norman has his left shoulder nearest his right foot,
but to do this his head has turned a lot and his left ear has moved to the rear about 6 inches.
remember Sam Sneads easy tip for a better swing?
he said turn your head in your backswing.
left-shoulder-attop.jpg

Pinsplitter
Please quote me correctly.I stated" place your hands on opposite shoulders" not  cross your hands over chest
I go into a great deal of detail in the post that i recommended and describe how to tilt and how   and when the head moves laterally  and the fact that the head can and does rotate going back and that any lateral movement  by the head will be small and will happen near the end of the backwing.If you have questions  on any of my points   i will more than  be glad to politely answer them.If you look at the enclosed video of Mr Snead at the  1:58-2:02  mark you will see that his head is  also   remarkably steady laterally going back.The question from the OP concerned lateral motion going back and i answered him in that context .If you set up with 6-8 degrees of spine tilt ,your head will also be tilted away from the target.and more towards your  right foot than your left.Then all a golfer has to do is to windup around this tilted spine.Since you seem to be a fan of Squish,the setup and backswing that i suggest will maintain a stable turning point around  the C7 vetebrae.The best way to see this is  a video shot from above the golfer
If you could  please go into more detail about what you do not understand about my drill ,i will be happy to clarify anything that you do not understand.I am just suggesting to the op that he take his stance with the spine  tilt that i mention. and just turn his shoulders until they they are in line with his right foot .Really a simple drill.This drill is hardly the only thing that a golfer needs to do to improve ,but it is effective to train oneself to minimize lteral motion going back.
I am sorry that your friend has not improved in 10 years.Something is very  wrong when that happens.Have him  P.M me a front and dtl video and i will make some suggestions.If he does not like my ideas then it has not him anything but the time to shoot the videos.


thsi drill is hardly the only thing that a golfer needs to improve ,but to train oneself to minimze lateral motion  going back it is a very simple and effective drill.
I am sorry about your friend who

Edited by russc, 17 November 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Pinsplitter59]

quote
and just turn his shoulders until they they are in line with his right foot
unquote
sorry to belabour this point, but we don't want some golfer spending days trying to do something impossible.
You use Sam Snead as your sample, my pics of him tell me his head moves back and it turns appreciably.
doing this he manages to get his left shoulder over his right heel..
both shoulders are not lined up perpendicular to the target line, to get both shoulders in line with your right foot you have to sway heaps to the rear, both shoulders cannot be in line with the right foot without doing a sway.
obvious really, the right shoulder has to turn towards the target as the left shoulder turns away from the target.
in the Tiger Woods 2000 pics you can see how much he moves his head to the rear and turns his head,
its a lot, and he gets his left shoulder well over his right foot.
this is only possible if the head moves to the rear and turns.
the yellow dot is a guess at what they call the C7 vertebrae centre point, interesting here because it seems to be the thing that moves the least.

maybe you need to clarify what you mean by "in line with the right foot".

i am not a fan of any teacher at all, i don't have a useful golf swing, i have read too much that makes no sense to my body and confused myself into non-existence, but i am a fan of clear precise unambiguous descriptions of what is what.
 sam-snead_head.jpg   54.14K   0 downloads

truly i am not having a go at you, the problem is that what you say can be interpreted in different ways.
if i tried to do what you say i would have to move and sway a lot to the rear in order to keep my right shoulder over my right foot.
if you said until the left shoulder is over the right foot that's not so confusing,
because then the right shoulder would be allowed to move towards the target.

anyhow thanks for your post,
tonight i will go out and practice moving and turning my head.
a drowning man grasps at anything available................

Edited by Pinsplitter59, 17 November 2012 - 09:29 PM.

[JPeacockGolf]

Sounds like you don't have the correct tilt pinseeker.

[russc]

Pinsplitter
Watch this video from 13:40-14:30.I think that you will see that we both wasted too much time on this simple drill.
There are lots of conflicting advice both on the internet and among teachers in general.Your experience unfortunately is more the norm than any  of us would like to admit.If you need any help on starting a swing where the emphasis is on swing simplification send me a P.M.
Good night

Edited by russc, 17 November 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[daco81se]

russc, on 17 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Pinsplitter
Watch this video from 13:40-14:30.I think that you will see that we both wasted too much time on this simple drill.
There are lots of conflicting advice both on the internet and among teachers in general.Your experience unfortunately is more the norm than any  of us would like to admit.If you need any help on starting a swing where the emphasis is on swing simplification send me a P.M.
Good night

That is such a great lesson, for one, I have the majority of the faults that student does, and 2, Dan just details, explains, and fixes them very well

[HitBall]

I was thinking about this subject today. I realized that my spine tilt leaning over the ball has to remain the same so I don't pull up and give myself a flat shoulder plane, also my "sideways" spine tilt must stay the same as my shoulders rotate around my thoracic spine otherwise I will never hit the ball and then make a divot. When you sway your spine laterally, you move off your center of gravity off the ball and pretty much have to time a lunge sideways and down instead of just rotation.

When I focused on rotating my shoulders around my spine and hitting ball then turf the sound was perfect and the shot was very straight albeit somewhat low. This is my new swing thought as really what is better than a stable body with rotation that allows you to execute a managed turn hitting the exact position your hands were at address.

I had been working on plane positions and whatnot, but now I am focused on this.

Edited by HitBall, 18 November 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[Pinsplitter59]

thanks russc for your interest and kind offer.
i have wasted money on an online lesson, wasted money over the years on lessons from pros,
not once did anything any of them said really help me at all.
i have whinged elsewhere about pros inability to teach even if they know something, so enough of that.
i don't trust video analysis, from my own experience looking at my swing i can hardly see any difference from 2 radically different shoulder turns for example.
my problem is that  in a way i do know what a good swing is and what it feels like because i have had "it" at brief times.
so when a pro says do this and do that and it just feels awful and doesn't work i know its wrong for me, its not what i need, it does not fix "my problem", most teaching is putting a bandaid on top of a weeping sore.
phewwww.. sorry whinge whinge......
anyhow just for fun here is Sam Snead showing an amateur how to turn his head (from a video)..
 sam_snead_turnsahead.jpg   67.41K   11 downloads

[russc]

Pinsplitter59, on 18 November 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

thanks russc for your interest and kind offer.
i have wasted money on an online lesson, wasted money over the years on lessons from pros,
not once did anything any of them said really help me at all.
i have whinged elsewhere about pros inability to teach even if they know something, so enough of that.
i don't trust video analysis, from my own experience looking at my swing i can hardly see any difference from 2 radically different shoulder turns for example.
my problem is that  in a way i do know what a good swing is and what it feels like because i have had "it" at brief times.
so when a pro says do this and do that and it just feels awful and doesn't work i know its wrong for me, its not what i need, it does not fix "my problem", most teaching is putting a bandaid on top of a weeping sore.
phewwww.. sorry whinge whinge......
anyhow just for fun here is Sam Snead showing an amateur how to turn his head (from a video)..
sam_snead_turnsahead.jpg

There are far,far too many golfers ,like yourself  who really want to improve ,but who have been exposed to less than perceptive instruction and bandaid approaches which do  not help a golfer improve in the long run.i have personnaly experienced  this problem in past years .The bottom line is that golf is hard for many people and a good deal of work is going to be required to change a ingrained poor,incorrect  habit into a good habit. Great instructors understand the golf swing ,can diagnose a golfer's problems and can COMMUNI CATE TO A GOLFER ON WHAT AND HOW HE NEEDS TO GO ABOUT IMPROVNG.If a swing change feels awful for you ,such a  pro will understand your problem right away and will help you understand why you need to make that change.Swing changes,especially major swing changes  are almost by definition  going to feel foreign.Video is a great tool  ,but it is not an end all even among those pros who are adept at using it
On the backswing the head can move up , down,laterally or can rotate.Moving the head up is not good and often indicates hunching of the shoulders while moving it down is acceptable especially since many touring pros move their head  down a bit going back.Rotating your head is perfectly normal and is somewhat dpendent on whether a golfer is left or right eyed ,although you do not want to take this head rotation too far.It is lateral rotation which i  was focusing  in my suggestion.There are some golfers who have a significant lateral head movement going back.Golfers like Curtis Strange and Rocco Mediate have bunches of lateral movement by the head  going back,but  such  golfers  are going to have to move laterally going down just to get back to where they were at setup.This is a compensating move ,which obviously can be done successfully ,but it does complicate the swing and creates the possibility for even more errors.If a golfer sets y up with a slight amount of spine tilt AWAY from the target,the head will already be more towards a golfers right foot.then all he has to s do is to rotate around his spine with minimal amounts of lateral motion by the head.