68 replies to this topic

[semi]

semi, on 17 November 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

There have been many replies on this and I can't help myself - I have to say my bit too. My son won his first father\son alternate shot tournament at age 5. He's got a couple years of HS left and is playing at a high level and enjoying the game. I don't see any problem with introducing your son to a coach for lessons. I did. I THINK the problem some people may be having is when you said "get him tournament ready".

You will find out soon enough what your desire or motives are when he starts to play in these tournament and doesn't play very well. Are you going to be the kind of dad that says "come on Johnny you need to play better, this is costing allot of money and taking up my time or are you going to get into the car on the way home and say "let's talk about your good shot" or wasn't that fun - good job out there...if you do the first, when your son starts playing really well don't be surprised if he comes home from school one day and says "I never want to swing a club again". This does happen and I remind myself of that all the time. I still do.

He can work hard on his game through lessons or whatever - just keep it fun, keep it fresh and remember, it’s a marathon not a sprint!!!!

sorry, that's not your exact quote but close enough...it's late!

[dpb5031]

This is a great topic.  I'm not so sure there is a perfect approach, each kid is different.  My 13 year old daughter is a good tournament player and has won her share of tournaments.  She started playing in tournaments at age 10, and honestly I wish we started her just a little sooner...maybe around 8 or 9 like the OP is suggesting.  It took her the first two seasons to catch up to the kids with more experience.  I like a minimalistic approach to instruction for the little ones.  Grip and set-up angles are critical...in most cases they will naturally find a good swing if those two components are solid.  Teach them to chip with their connected pivot as opposed to flipping at it.  This action will carry through to their full swing.

Honestly, I think it's easy with the little ones.  The problems start when they hit the teen years.  I'm dealing with that now.  It's just not cool to hang with Dad at the golf course when you're a 13 year old girl.  She'd rather hang out with friends, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc....too many distractions, on top of increasing loads of schoolwork.  

I look at it as my job to give my kid every opportunity... not just to succeed, but also to avoid making bad choices that she will likely regret several years down the road.  My kid's motivation has been waning this season and it shows in her practice and play.  She's always afraid that she's going to miss something with friends, etc.  She is very talented though, and I don't want her wake up when she's 18 and say "Dad, why didn't you make me work harder at golf, I could have gotten into this school or that school, etc., or I could have been really good"  

Nothing in life comes easy.  Should we let our kids settle for mediocrity or should we push them toward excellence.  It's a difficult balance.  I'm not saying it's the right or wrong approach, but most of the Asian parents I see don't seem to have this same conundrum.  They push their kids hard, stressing discipline and work ethic.  

One thing is for certain, once those formative years pass, there's no going back...

[ump23]

when i contact a teaching instructor what sorte of questions should i ask?

[dpb5031]

Teaching philosophy?  Experience teaching other competitive juniors?  Success stories?  Swing methodology?  Etc..

I also think a good instructor will sit down and map out a plan that explains his or her approach, plus a specific plan with your kid's goals in mind.  The last thing you want is to dump $100 plus on each lesson with little rhyme or reason given to what your working toward.

[Sling]

I'll add my two cents worth.

My son is 12 now and has been playing since he was 8, he is big for his age hits the ball a long way and looks the part. He wants to be a PGA tour player, they all do at his age... and he plays off a 5 handicap. I'm fortunate in my life and I've been able to send him to one of the Acadamies in Florida where he receives daily coaching by very experienced coaches. He plays in tournaments an average of twice a month.

And the advice the Coaches pass on to me is ...  that tournaments don't really matter at that age, concentrate on getting the swing right and practise the short game. Tournament golf can be a bit of a grind, long rounds with no caddies allowed, very little support as a result and a fairly unnatural atmosphere for a young child. It isn't like most sports, you aren't allowed closer than 30 yards in most tournaments so there is little chance of an encouraging word after a bad shot, no way to offer advice good or bad.

Now of course there are many tournaments out there for young children and teenagers so it is obvious there is a demand for it but  the phrasing of your question, which has been picked up by many is wrong.  Your child should not be coached for tournaments at all, not til a much older age, if they wish to play let them play but it isn't about winning until they get to around 14 or 15 (that isn't my advice, though I concur, it is the advice of the coaches at my son's school).

Yes coaches will look at you strangely if you ask them to coach an 8 year old for tournament golf because there is no coaching an 8 year old for tournament golf, not a sane way at least, there is just coaching. Coach them with good fundamentals, did I mention the short game is important, and if they want to pay in competition allow them to but do NOT emphasis winning or even doing well, they'll work it out for themselves. Trophies as an 8 year old are pretty meaningless.

My son played in a Tournament with a boy who finished top three at the Callaways this summer and was one shot worse than the other kid over three rounds but i'm not out there chasing after qualifying sites for next year. He knows he is good enough to compete and he also knows that getting the fundamentals right is what is important, did I mention the short game. He is 12, your kid is 8, there is a long time to go, a long time in which to win trophies.

[dpb5031]

Sling, on 19 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

I'll add my two cents worth.

My son is 12 now and has been playing since he was 8, he is big for his age hits the ball a long way and looks the part. He wants to be a PGA tour player, they all do at his age... and he plays off a 5 handicap. I'm fortunate in my life and I've been able to send him to one of the Acadamies in Florida where he receives daily coaching by very experienced coaches. He plays in tournaments an average of twice a month.

And the advice the Coaches pass on to me is ...  that tournaments don't really matter at that age, concentrate on getting the swing right and practise the short game. Tournament golf can be a bit of a grind, long rounds with no caddies allowed, very little support as a result and a fairly unnatural atmosphere for a young child. It isn't like most sports, you aren't allowed closer than 30 yards in most tournaments so there is little chance of an encouraging word after a bad shot, no way to offer advice good or bad.

Now of course there are many tournaments out there for young children and teenagers so it is obvious there is a demand for it but  the phrasing of your question, which has been picked up by many is wrong.  Your child should not be coached for tournaments at all, not til a much older age, if they wish to play let them play but it isn't about winning until they get to around 14 or 15 (that isn't my advice, though I concur, it is the advice of the coaches at my son's school).

Yes coaches will look at you strangely if you ask them to coach an 8 year old for tournament golf because there is no coaching an 8 year old for tournament golf, not a sane way at least, there is just coaching. Coach them with good fundamentals, did I mention the short game is important, and if they want to pay in competition allow them to but do NOT emphasis winning or even doing well, they'll work it out for themselves. Trophies as an 8 year old are pretty meaningless.

My son played in a Tournament with a boy who finished top three at the Callaways this summer and was one shot worse than the other kid over three rounds but i'm not out there chasing after qualifying sites for next year. He knows he is good enough to compete and he also knows that getting the fundamentals right is what is important, did I mention the short game. He is 12, your kid is 8, there is a long time to go, a long time in which to win trophies.

I agree with much of what you said, but it's far from a "one size fits all" type of deal.  It's probably different with boys, but in my experience with my daughter, junior tournament play has been critical to her development as a player and also her love and continued enthusiasm for the game.

Sadly, although we belong to a nice club that is very close to our home, there are no girls my daughter's age that are even close to her ability.  At 13, hanging out with dad and his friends is starting to get old.  The junior tournaments are the only place where she actually gets to be around other girls her age who love the game and can play it decently.

My guess is that this sort of dilemma is not as likely with boys, as there are so many more who play, but some might face the same situation as my daughter.  It's a lot to ask of a kid to go out and practice/play alone or with a parent all the time.  Sure, it might suit some kids personalities, but not my kid...she's a social butterfly.

For reference, when she was 10-12 I had her play in no more than about 5 tournaments per year spaced out over the course of the season.  This year, at 13, we stepped it up to about one tournament per month "in season," plus a few junior majors in July/August like the US Kids Worlds in Pinehurst and the Big I in Austin, TX.  In 2 weeks we are going to the Junior Honda Classic at PGA National in West Palm Beach, FL.

[Sling]

@dpb5031,

And I agree with what you are saying. It isn't the tournament play as such, though as I said it can be very weird and lonely for a small child, but coaching towards it that I have an issue with. Your daughter needs to play with kids her own age and she can compete and have fun doing that, but she doesn't NEED to win, she'll find out what works for her.

Do i want my son to win, yes it would be great, do I die a little each time he has a bad round, yes of course, but our job as parents is to be supportive at that age not to push, when he is 15 and still wants to go the Florida State or whereever thats the time to get serious.

[rogera13]

I think a few over the top parents in many youth sports have shed a cloud over you competition! As I mentioned earlier I believe each child must be allowed to pursue at their pace so not to burn out but competition is at the heart of what used to drive this country!! At 6 years old I dove head first into the door frame to beat my dad in a foot race! I didn't want to loose. My dad certainly didn't teach me to do it. I WANTED TO COMPETE! I think if more kids competed at something we would be better off as a whole. I can't stand the "soccer mom" mentality. If there is score kept, then it's a competition and there are WINNERS and LOOSERS! All the tournament baseball did for my son at a young age is enforce that awful feeling when you loose and encourage him to improve. I see it in him to this day with golf. He has learned to compete and push himself to improve! Not throw up his hands and cheer and say "I did my best" while at double par off the T box. ( I saw a mom screaming at a high school coach about "doing his best" after they had to tell him he couldn't tee up another ball) COMPETITION is GOOD!

[ump23]

i think we are talking the same thing. when i say tournement ready i mean that  someone has spent some time with him and taught him good fundementals so that he can compete.   trophies, medals and wins may not matter to you but they matter to an eight year old.  atleast mine. every kid is genetically wired differently and to be quit honest i would check my motives if the child did not care.  I find it rather stange that you would post something like this.  you, your self has said that you are able to send your child to golf academies.  your not sending him there to finish in last place. it may happen once and it may happen twice but eventually somebody is going to do some soul searching.  Personnly i think we want the same thing.  If we are going to throw them into competition we better give them some tools, and see what happens.  This is not our first rodeo into competitive sports. just our first into golf.

[dpb5031]

I honestly don't know what's "right."  What works for some kids might not work for others.  Everyone likes to talk about what a great job Earl Woods did with Tiger.  Knowing how different all kids are, I tend to think that if you gave Earl ten thousand other kids to raise, not a one of them would be even close to Tiger as far as success as a golfer.

I struggle all the time with wondering how hard I should be "pushing" my daughter.  It's a difficult balance.  I want her to understand that nothing in life comes easy and that sacrifices are pretty much a requirement for excellence and high levels of success, whatever the endeavour.  I also don't want to make the sport she loves seem like a job when I know that she's likely to do much better if she's self-motivated and having fun.

We know some 12 and 13 year old kids who play in tournaments pretty much EVERY weekend.  Golf is their life.  It will be interesting to see who out of these hangs in there for the long haul, and who burns out.

[Sling]

@ump23,

I am reporting back what coaches who have coached top 10 players in the World Rankings are saying to me.

I would like my son to go as far as he possibly can with the game of golf, he has the potential to be a Pro but that is all that it is at this stage, the potential. A tiny percentage of players even from golf acadamies will ever play professional golf so it is more important that he develops as a person and that I develop a relationship with him based on respect and allowing him space.

No 'pushy parent' ever considers himself such, it is always only apparant from the outside. Anyway enough, get coaching work on the short game and see what happens.

[dpb5031]

I will add that with each milestone of success, intentionally or not, the bar gets raised in terms of expectations.  It is practically inevitable.  This is one of the things that makes the parenting part so difficult.

[ump23]

UPDATE: ok, people every one has made some good points.  And even the ones i might of took exception too made me think.  i think our friend from NJ put it best "intentionally or not, the bar gets raised in terms of expectations.  It is practically inevitable.  This is one of the things that makes the parenting part so difficult."  I could not agree more.  I had a great conversation with a pro instructor today.  we talked about what i have been working with him on and his scores.  I would of reather gone and sat down with him maybe we'll make the trip later this month.  He told me about his video and his book.  actually i think the video idea was pretty good this way i will atleast have an idea where this guy is coming from.  and if he my son does end up going to him atleast he will have some prior knowledge of what he is going to teach him.  he said what we were doing with him now was good.  for the last two years i have have not realy worked with him on swing.  my philosophy to him was front arm straight, you open the door then you close it.  he figured out the putting stance from watching me and we played.  we had fun and are still having fun.  recently, i have started on making sure that he is alliegned at his target and that before we hit a ball we always have a target.  we have worked more on putting and chipping.  we are now counting all shots no do overs and no more kicking it out of the rough.  it's been different for him and he gets frustrated but he said he wanted to play tournement golf. sometimes you can see it in his face (would you just shutup so i can hit this ball)we try to make it fun with competive games (closest to the hole, score, alternating one footers first one to miss loses ect.)  this has been a good post.  again thanks to all that have posted.  you you have nay more comments/ questions please post.  I took the eight year old to go get a book on golf and the librarian was a golfer and he put me on the site. i'm hooked.

[CCUgolfer23]

ump23, on 20 November 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

UPDATE: ok, people every one has made some good points.  And even the ones i might of took exception too made me think.  i think our friend from NJ put it best "intentionally or not, the bar gets raised in terms of expectations.  It is practically inevitable.  This is one of the things that makes the parenting part so difficult."  I could not agree more.  I had a great conversation with a pro instructor today.  we talked about what i have been working with him on and his scores.  I would of reather gone and sat down with him maybe we'll make the trip later this month.  He told me about his video and his book.  actually i think the video idea was pretty good this way i will atleast have an idea where this guy is coming from.  and if he my son does end up going to him atleast he will have some prior knowledge of what he is going to teach him.  he said what we were doing with him now was good.  for the last two years i have have not realy worked with him on swing.  my philosophy to him was front arm straight, you open the door then you close it.  he figured out the putting stance from watching me and we played.  we had fun and are still having fun.  recently, i have started on making sure that he is alliegned at his target and that before we hit a ball we always have a target.  we have worked more on putting and chipping.  we are now counting all shots no do overs and no more kicking it out of the rough.  it's been different for him and he gets frustrated but he said he wanted to play tournement golf. sometimes you can see it in his face (would you just shutup so i can hit this ball)we try to make it fun with competive games (closest to the hole, score, alternating one footers first one to miss loses ect.)  this has been a good post.  again thanks to all that have posted.  you you have nay more comments/ questions please post.  I took the eight year old to go get a book on golf and the librarian was a golfer and he put me on the site. i'm hooked.

Thats some good stuff to hear. I commented earlier but one thing I would do if possible, is to let him play some non competitive rounds of golf with friends without you playing. It will get him used to playing with people who are not dad. When I was a junior and started out it was always a competition to beat dad. He may not be there yet, but when he gets older and if you continue to play and score better than him, he will get frustrated trying to beat dad, it comes natural. It took me 2 years even though I am a better player by miles than my dad to beat him, I would always beat myself. Enjoy playing golf with your son, but everyonce in awhile maybe just ride with him if he has some other junior golfing friends. When I was constantly playing with my dad and I entered tournaments used to playing with one person and not accustomed to people I never met so playing with other junior golfers will be a great thing for him to do to get prepared for tournaments. Let him play the closest to the pin games with them too. I hope your son has nothing but future succes in golf, or anything else he decides to do in life. Oh and by the way, when he beats you for the first time, get used to it because it will happen all the time. Ha

[ump23]

i would prefer that he would play with kids his own age more often.  he's at that age right now where you just can't take him to the coarse and drop him off and come back to pick him up.  the young junior program is not very good in my area.  the first tee from what i'm getting and what i saw is pretty weak.   there are some clinics this summer and we'll sign him up for those but other then that its me or the 4 yo.  thanks for the post.

Edited by ump23, 20 November 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[jrgolfdad]

What a great thread!  There are some fantastic comments in here.  I'm glad that someone brought up Sean O'Hair and his father.  My son's coach was Sean's coach while he was growing up in Lubbock.  His coach referenced several articles about Sean and his father and has told me (horror) stories about their relationship.  My son, who is 7, is a very active junior golfer.  I too, am struggling with how to go about all of this.  I am not a golfer, Jace and I both picked up clubs at the same time almost 2 years ago.  He excelled, I didn't!  

Jace started by jacking around on a driving range with a $15 set of Craigslist golf clubs.  He was 5 at the time and it was clear he was a natural.  He watched countless hours of YouTube videos of pro golfers and the only TV channel he could navigate to on his own was the Golf Channel.  We started taking part in a local golf clinic that was 45 minutes a week of coaching and hitting the range 2-3 times a week.  As he got better and we got more comfortable with the coach, we started in the advanced development program which is 3 hours a week and still trying to hit the driving range here and there during the week.  We began playing a youth league that was 8 weeks at one of the par 3 courses.  Since kids his age are hard to come by in golf programs, he played in the 8-10yr/old bracket and won the division.  Since he was only 6, we only had one option for summer tournaments based on his age.  This was a interesting experience to say the least...

I was blown away about how competitive the PARENTS were in this league.  It wasn't the kids, it was the parents!  It was like they were trying to make up for their lack of skills through their kids!  I was shocked!  Being in Texas, the term "football parent" is something that I hear about when talking about overbearing parents in sports.  Never in a million years did I expect it in golf.  When I think about it, I was probably naive in believing it wouldn't be that way, but it was a very rude awakening to see it.  Kids in tears, parents arguing with each other over the rules, etc.  I'm not going to lie...those kids were damn good at such young ages, but man...I'm going to bet that most of those kids burn out before they are 15!  

We decided to take a step back from all of that.  Jace is still doing the developmental clinic with his coach, and he plays team tournaments now.  The team tournaments are great because they play with a partner their own age, and the scoring takes the best score between them for each hole.  If one kid gets and 8, but the partner makes a 5, the score you right down is a 5.  The parents in this group are night and day different from the other tour.  This has been a great experience in learning the rules of golf, sportsmanship, teamwork, etc.

Bottom line, don't take it too seriously at this point.  Find a good program with a good coach and have fun.  If you child is having fun with it, it will keep their interest level high.  If it becomes an argument every time you go to practice, it will go downhill quick from there.  If you frequent the driving range, come up with games and challenges for them.  Don't just stick to the driving range, most of your time should be spent on the putting greens and chipping areas.

[ump23]

this is a nice post.  i would imagine as much.  we played competitive baseball with my oldest and it could get crazy.  its a thin line that we walk.  A good friend once told me you cant take out what god has already put in.  some children will strive to win and get better while others simply enjoy playing and winning is great but it is not their priority nor do they want to put in the work or effort.  one of the reasons why golf is such a great game is that the game is not always fair, like life.  and that the more you practice the harder you work the better you are going to get.  i suppose that is like many sports but in golf your playing the coarse or "old man par"  I would imagine it is quiet hard since you did not pick up the game at a younger age but then again your both learning.  i noticed that my game has gotten better since he started playing.  Myself, i am a range junkie.  I love banging balls.  One thing i worked with the eight year old is being creative.  hitting low shots into the wind,flopping, opening up the blade to hit a cut.  but making a game out of it.  We would align our selves one way but the ball had to go around a post and land near our target.  great game for junior is the Happy Gilmore drill.  he love its and we would laugh our selves to death. this is a great game to teach weight transfer without having to say a word.  your better golfers have a great imagination (tiger, bubba, phil)  few days are spent where every ball lands in the middle of the fairway or on a flat landing area with hardly no wind. i think that's why some of these juniors are shooting these great scores. they  can see the shot in their head way before they actually pull the trigger.  I encourage him to think of every shot that he can make before he steps up to the ball.  he loves to flop the ball get it high and watch it sit on the green.  he hits this low punch shot that he practices in the backyard and he is flat deadly accurate when he gets on the coarse.  i never taught him this he did it because he was limited to room in the back yard and that there are windows and the fence in the yard was only so high. young children are fearless, this needs to be encourages but they need to understand that some shots will only get them into more trouble.  this is better to be learned trial by error. then take 30 seconds to talk to him and then drop it.  i have learned so much from this post.  either writing or reading everyone "two cents"

[jollysammy]

My youngest son plays both golf and baseball.  He always played baseball at a high level and was on several all-star teams and played year round for many years on several teams.  One summer one of his travel teams was playing in Reno and the dads wanted to play golf.  I hadn't played for years so I went early to play a round and I remembered that my dad had took his grandson to the range every so often so I took him on the course with me to play.  To my surprise he could drive the ball pretty well, about 150 yds for a 9 year old and actually parred a few holes.  So I went ahead and bought him a used set of senior flex graphite Cobra clubs and cut them down 2 inches.  He then hit the range a few more times and played some rounds when after a few months I entered him into a US Kids tournament at 9 yrs old.  I knew that his personality was such that he has a burning desire to win at everything he does, whether its sports or school, he just wants to beat out his peers, but he does it quietly.  He doesn't talk about it like a lot of the boys, he just does it. I knew that playing with better golfers would drive himself to improve, because he doesn't want to embarrass himself in anything.  His first tournament in his threesome was the eventual winner.  I was proud that my son could drive the ball as far or farther than the other 2, but then I saw how the other boy put approach shot after approach shot within 3-4 feet of the hole, every hole.  Then I knew the difference very quickly.  I remember on hole 5, a par 5, watching the top boy reading his skycaddy, and the other boy's dad using a rangefinder and then my son asking me, what club should I use?  I told him, your guess is as good as mine, because I didn't even know how far he hit his clubs.

In baseball, you can be an all-star and you can do great things, but in the end, its a team sport and 1 player can't do it all.  But in golf, its all you, all the time.  You don't get 3 strikes at bat.  Also, my son played golf mostly during the offseason of baseball, whereas a lot of the boys in golf he competes with play year round, the top ones are usually in a tournament each week depending on the season.

He's never won a tournament, but got has high as 3rd.  He's had a few lessons, but nothing on a consistent basis.  Just playing and on the range.  He's had a growth spurt from 11-12 where he went from 4'6" to 5'4" and now can drive the ball 210-220 with an occasional poke to 250.  This last summer he played more golf tournaments than ever before mainly due to fracturing his growth plate in his shoulder in Feb. playing baseball, so we concentrated more on golf.

Yes, tournament golf has helped to make him a better golfer, but it was also the desire to get better that he had as well.  He is one of the only boys on his school golf team that plays with Mizuno MP-33 blades and that has made him stronger and better as well.  In the end, you have to know whether or not your son can handle the mental part of not winning at first, I've seen many frustrated kids and even more exasperated parents out there.  I never took it as seriously because my son was playing baseball so much more than golf.

In baseball and golf you can get caught up in trying to buy a game.  I know many parents that paid small fortunes to batting coaches and golf coaches to somehow get their kid to hit a baseball or be a golf pro.  In the end, the kid has to want to do it.  I remember buying my son a set of batting lessons at 6 for 225 dollars, 5 1/2 hour lessons.  They got him set on correct technique and when it was over they asked me when I was going to sign up for the next set of lessons.  I told them, I wasn't going to, because if he didn't learn enough to hit after $225, that was going to be the end of his baseball, and anyway, now I could just keep pitching to him.  He made all-stars and is a deadly contact hitter with power.  His friends that had many more lessons were great at hitting in a batting cage off a machine, but couldn't translate that to hitting on the field.  Likewise, I've seen many golf parents shell out a lot for lessons.  

The best experience for my son has been playing on the course against adults.  He has a card called a youth on course card which allows him to play 18 holes at many courses for $5 or less.  So during the summer he can play 1 to 2 rounds a week against men.  He gets a kick out of beating them and especially outdriving them.  Many don't like to lose to a 12 year old.

[jrgolfdad]

"I remember on hole 5, a par 5, watching the top boy reading his skycaddy, and the other boy's dad using a rangefinder and then my son asking me, what club should I use? I told him, your guess is as good as mine, because I didn't even know how far he hit his clubs."

I love that quote!  ROFL, I can totally relate.  I felt WAY out of my league when the kids/dads starting to bust out their GPS and Rangefinders.  That was our first "real" tournament and it was quite an eye opener!

[HenB0gan]

jrgolfdad, on 28 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

"I remember on hole 5, a par 5, watching the top boy reading his skycaddy, and the other boy's dad using a rangefinder and then my son asking me, what club should I use? I told him, your guess is as good as mine, because I didn't even know how far he hit his clubs."

I love that quote!  ROFL, I can totally relate.  I felt WAY out of my league when the kids/dads starting to bust out their GPS and Rangefinders.  That was our first "real" tournament and it was quite an eye opener!

So can I haha. My son is 10 and I caddy for him in his tournaments, and I'm more nervous about caddying than he his about playing haha.

[ump23]

you guys are funny.

[jollysammy]

jrgolfdad, on 28 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

"I remember on hole 5, a par 5, watching the top boy reading his skycaddy, and the other boy's dad using a rangefinder and then my son asking me, what club should I use? I told him, your guess is as good as mine, because I didn't even know how far he hit his clubs."

I love that quote!  ROFL, I can totally relate.  I felt WAY out of my league when the kids/dads starting to bust out their GPS and Rangefinders.  That was our first "real" tournament and it was quite an eye opener!

You want something funnier?  The top kids dad didn't caddy his son's bag.  Instead the boy just pushed his cart while the dad scouted the next hole.  Every time we come up to the next tee box the dad gives him the run down for hazards, approach, where to attack the green, etc.  And then he goes off to the next hole.  The second tournament I see him at, I told him that I noticed he doesn't caddy for his son, and he said to me..."no way, he's too mean".  We chuckled at first but I didn't realize what he meant until about my son's 3rd tournament when my son asked me for a 7 iron and I said to him, don't you want a 6 instead, and then he looked at me with fire in his eyes and said with a rather stern loud tone..." I said 6!".  That's when what the other dad said to me came home, these boys can take these tournaments pretty seriously.  I said to him, "hey, I don't get paid for this kind of abuse!"

[ump23]

that is kinda funny, and sick why would you not want to watch? and is there not a rule that the spectators can't give that information out. i don't know.

[jollysammy]

ump23, on 29 November 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

that is kinda funny, and sick why would you not want to watch? and is there not a rule that the spectators can't give that information out. i don't know.

In US Kids tournaments, parents can caddy, talk to the players, everything.  In Junior golf tournaments run by JGANC, parents have to stay 100ft away from the players and cannot caddy or talk to them.

[jrgolfdad]

US Kids, and NTPGA (Junior PGA), parents can caddie for the kids, at least for the younger ones.  I think that may change once they are 12-13, but I haven't reached that point yet.  Anyone else know how that works?  Would be good to know!

[jollysammy]

jrgolfdad, on 29 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

US Kids, and NTPGA (Junior PGA), parents can caddie for the kids, at least for the younger ones.  I think that may change once they are 12-13, but I haven't reached that point yet.  Anyone else know how that works?  Would be good to know!

Yes, you can still caddy for your kid at 13 in US Kids, but pretty soon after that the kid probably doesn't want you to caddy for them.

[ump23]

i guess uskg is one of the few that the parents in a non caddy role are allowed to give out information.  i do believe this is usga rules violation.  and most non uskg don't allow a caddy after the age of nine.  in my experience with other sports the more adults are involved with the actual play of the game the more things get fubared.  i think once they have the basic etiquette of the game down you have to let them play on their own.  i think at a young age it becomes more of a safety issue then a play issue.  taking a club or a ball off the head is never a good thing.  I don't like the fact that someone can carry their clubs. no other local or national (besides CWJC) tournements where the player does not have to tote their own bag.i think it becomes about self reliance that mom and dad don't need to hold my hand in order for me to play well or play. they could just as well have an adult volunteer follow them around and direct traffic for the young ones. don't get me wrong it does give some advantage to have a parent close by to give swing tips and help reading putts.  kids have such a better imagination then adults that i think most of the time we only get in their way.  for all you uskg parents don't take this wrong way but i've been hearing some pretty crazy stuff going on since i started this post and most of the time it is not the kids but the adults who are the problem.  as parents we want our kids to do well but i think at what expense.  as a parent that has kids in HS to kids in elementary school.  i've seen first hand when you become to involved and start making decisions for your kids, knowing that if they make their own they will surely fail.  but through failure they also learn about about self responsibility.  Golf is the perfect tool for this.  the worst that can happen is they shank a ball into the woods.

[jollysammy]

ump23, on 29 November 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

i guess uskg is one of the few that the parents in a non caddy role are allowed to give out information.  i do believe this is usga rules violation.  and most non uskg don't allow a caddy after the age of nine.  in my experience with other sports the more adults are involved with the actual play of the game the more things get fubared.  i think once they have the basic etiquette of the game down you have to let them play on their own.  i think at a young age it becomes more of a safety issue then a play issue.  taking a club or a ball off the head is never a good thing.  I don't like the fact that someone can carry their clubs. no other local or national (besides CWJC) tournements where the player does not have to tote their own bag.i think it becomes about self reliance that mom and dad don't need to hold my hand in order for me to play well or play. they could just as well have an adult volunteer follow them around and direct traffic for the young ones. don't get me wrong it does give some advantage to have a parent close by to give swing tips and help reading putts.  kids have such a better imagination then adults that i think most of the time we only get in their way.  for all you uskg parents don't take this wrong way but i've been hearing some pretty crazy stuff going on since i started this post and most of the time it is not the kids but the adults who are the problem.  as parents we want our kids to do well but i think at what expense.  as a parent that has kids in HS to kids in elementary school.  i've seen first hand when you become to involved and start making decisions for your kids, knowing that if they make their own they will surely fail.  but through failure they also learn about about self responsibility.  Golf is the perfect tool for this.  the worst that can happen is they shank a ball into the woods.

I've seen it all too.  I just push the cart and give my son some comic relief, but I don't tell him how to hit the ball or where to putt.  However, I have seem dads that not only tell them which way to hit, but also tell the kid advice on every putt.  The worse is when its in a foreign language and you don't know what the heck they're saying and then sit there and watch a kid 3 or 4 putt, especially when they're giving advice and the kid is 12 inches away from the hole, and still the kid misses it.   In US Kids they have a time limit, if they don't complete so many holes by so much time, the whole group gets a red card which means stroke is added.  So consequently, you tend to really dread the dads you know that give out so much advice because you know they are going to be slow and their kid will easily exceed the 45 seconds per shot rule.

I never told my son what to do, heck he's a better golfer than I have ever been or could ever be.  Rather, I used other ways to motivate him.  We used to bet on golf against each other, until I realized I was just losing too much money too fast as well as the greens fees

What's funny is that you see parental behavior in golf and baseball or for that matter any sports that can be from benign to extreme.  The funniest thing is when you talk to the extreme parents, many times you realize they never played the sport themselves or often any sport themself, so they're expectations and demands are pretty unrealistic.

[ump23]

65 and sunny the two of us are hitting the coarse.  that is funny.  i officiate baseball at the college level and let me tell you this there is no way you can get me on a little league field.  one it does not pay very good and the abuse you get from the parents.  there was a kid, well not really, a kid a, college senior that basically could of gone ahead and played d1 baseball but the coach's could not stand the father, did you hear that.  the father. the kid was a good player and was one of the better players in d2 baseball but because the father could not keep his mouth shut and basically making stipulation with these coach's on much his kid was going to play. they were like "i don't need this"  i talked to the coach and he was like the guy is embarrassing his son.  father would come to the games and yell all game long either at the umpires or the players.  the other players were like thank god this guy is leaving this year.  the kid didn't have the balls to tell his old man to shut the !@#$ up. enjoy you day

[Animal Chin]

jollysammy, on 29 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

jrgolfdad, on 29 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

US Kids, and NTPGA (Junior PGA), parents can caddie for the kids, at least for the younger ones.  I think that may change once they are 12-13, but I haven't reached that point yet.  Anyone else know how that works?  Would be good to know!

Yes, you can still caddy for your kid at 13 in US Kids, but pretty soon after that the kid probably doesn't want you to caddy for them.

True.  If you really want to help your kid, get a real caddie who knows what they're doing.  I've caddied for one of the best junior golfers in the u.s. because his family trusted that I would help him.  He's one of the best players I've ever seen.  He's a hard worker and his parents are great people who don't push or get in his way.  They're just fans.  You wouldn't even know they were there.

Try checking with the golf pros at the course where your kids play.  There are guys there that the kids know and trust and feel comfortable around.