89 replies to this topic

[Mr22putt]

Many of us think MW should dump Deadbetter.

I think BJ is hard to deal with and I think many of the top teachers might not want her as a new student and have to deal with BJ.
It's not as if the top instructors are hurting for money....unless she wants to go to Haney....lol....the money whore....who IMO....should not have wrote a book about TW...only to chase the $$$$$.

[hoganfan924]

Lead poisoning

Her attempt to hit it longer by speeding up her tempo and "cracking the whip" have been a complete failure.  She probably has 15-20 lbs. more muscle now than when she was 14 and doesn't hit it any farther, just a lot more crooked.

Edited by hoganfan924, 16 November 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[wobgon]

dcmidnight, on 16 November 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

In her career she has "only" 2 wins and 31 top 10s - and she *just* turned 23.

This idea that she is some failure who is washing out of golf is freaking laughable. Laughable.

You forgot to say believe me in your last post.

[rafal]

Mr22putt, on 16 November 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Many of us think MW should dump Deadbetter.

I think BJ is hard to deal with and I think many of the top teachers might not want her as a new student and have to deal with BJ.
It's not as if the top instructors are hurting for money....unless she wants to go to Haney....lol....the money whore....who IMO....should not have wrote a book about TW...only to chase the $$$$$.

Good point, why would a great instructor get involved in that situation...upside is uncertain and if you succeed BJ will not give you any credit.

[DD4442]

First time I've ever felt sorry for Michelle Wie:  TV camera showed her walking off the 17th green after missing a makable par putt and she started smacking herself on the side of the head (hard) with her hand.  The kid is really having a tough time.  Golf is hard.

[MileHighClub]

She is dead last after two rounds.  +14 has her 24 strokes behing the leader.  There is no cut this week, so this could be a real train wreck.

[Tim Meitner]

rafal, on 16 November 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

1st place 13/14-261  -- Ai Miyazato 5'3

Last place 4/14-271 -- M Wie 6'2"

24 stroke difference over 2 rounds.  It's driving not putting that's a problem.  You get 10 yards over Ai who is half her size and hit 4/14?

As Johnny Miller said about his driving yips: "you CAN win events when putting poorly.  But you can't win anything driving poorly."

A complete load of BS..

You can't win ANYWHERE putting like she is. As for his second part, I give you Severino Ballesteros. Brad Faxon also was by tour standards, a poor driver of the golf ball. Both winners.

[LOVE4LPGA]

This "story" is driven by one thing, and it has nothing to do with golfing as a pro:

The mammoth NIKE endorsement deal of her first couple years.

Take that out, and this career is another average-player story.

And about the "only 23" point: 21 - 26 is the prime age range in modern LPGA career. She chose university while in her prime years. Another indication that she is not history-making material for the level of LPGA that we enjoy now.

Nice gal. Very pretty. Friendly personality. So what? Many more like that.

There is much going on today's LPGA. The story of Ai M out of Japan, the rise of little sister Korea to dominate so many seasons, NYC proving that Asian Culture is not an excuse, Stacy Lewis POY, Kerr 21 wins.

Taking just the NYC sample point. There is a young lady that is MUCH more of trad Korean culture. Away from home, in foreign land, and she musters the courage and commitment to task to tell her folks to STAY HOME. Now they enjoy a better relationship than ever. What is the reason for constantly blaming BJ? The player is responsible for their destiny. If they care.

SeRi Pak. Came here on own. Alone. Sparked a revolution in women's pro golf. The player is responsible for their destiny. If they care.

Unfortunately, the biggest historical record appears to be gap of hype and expectation to outcome. Made only worse by her own decisions to go to university in middle of prime years and unwillingness to manage her own destiny.

[Mr22putt]

DD4442, on 16 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

First time I've ever felt sorry for Michelle Wie:  TV camera showed her walking off the 17th green after missing a makable par putt and she started smacking herself on the side of the head (hard) with her hand.  The kid is really having a tough time.  Golf is hard.

Yes, that was hard to watch.

At the CWO, Lexi missed a short putt...and walking to the next green she started to hit herself in the back with her putter handle and she was trying to hold back tears. I was only 10 ft away...it was hard for me to watch. She's only 17.....but she'll get stronger with age.....no tears when playing in the big leagues.
Lexi is a really nice person.

On the flipside.....there's Lydia Ko walking down the 18th fairway in front on 20,000 fans...Lydia looked like she was just walking to school with her friends.
This is one really nice young lady.
I was excited to see her play as I watched her previously on TV this summer in the Jr. Girls Am & US Women's Am.
Go Kiwi Go!!!!

[duffer987]

Sure, but they've got a long way to go to get to Woody's level

[rockinar]

Mikka, on 16 November 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

I can't quite fathom how any tour professional can card anything higher than a 76-78.  These guys are the best.  Sure they'll have 1 blow-up hole where they double bogey but to have a couple of triples or doubles is ridiculous for their talent.

Even professional race car drivers crash.

Edited by rockinar, 17 November 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[dpb5031]

hoganfan924, on 16 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Lead poisoning

Her attempt to hit it longer by speeding up her tempo and "cracking the whip" have been a complete failure.  She probably has 15-20 lbs. more muscle now than when she was 14 and doesn't hit it any farther, just a lot more crooked.

I agree HG.  It just goes to show that you have to be very careful about messing around with one's intuitive and natural golf swing and sense of tempo...especially a child prodigy like Wie.  They took something that was as natural as walking up a flight of stairs for Michelle, and made it into a contrived series of positions that she must consciously think about to achieve.  It's hard to find it once the natural and intuitive swing is lost.  Paralysis by analysis...

[Body_Visions]

I think she still has a chance to turn it around and become a decent player but will never do the things predicted of her.

All of the above answers have some merit, but I think it all boils down to just not loving what she does.  Playing well brings her relief, not enjoyment.

[Guia]

Actually, her deal with Nike was not huge.  I think she makes more through Asian contracts.  Does anyone
know some numbers?  

I have a big deal with a local car dealership owner, he buys me a coke twice a week after we play.

[Mr22putt]

Guia, on 17 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Actually, her deal with Nike was not huge.  I think she makes more through Asian contracts.  Does anyone
know some numbers?  

I have a big deal with a local car dealership owner, he buys me a coke twice a week after we play.

That's a really cheap tip to caddy....lol.

[Guia]

When your not good you have to work cheap.  You should have seen what I was paid as a male escort, even
less.

[PedronNiall]

I've seen a friend of mine ruined first-hand by a domineering parent, and as horrible as his dad was about riding him while he played and nitpicking what he did, even he wasn't as bad as Wie's parents. Knowing what happened to him I just can't fathom how she can have a career with what she's having to deal with out on the course. She's going to have to put her foot down or give up on golf.

I've had to just kind of wave things off when my dad attempts to toss too much my way in regards to what I "should" be doing in my game, and if she can't do the same with her parents she is doomed.

[Mr22putt]

Guia, on 17 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

When your not good you have to work cheap.  You should have seen what I was paid as a male escort, even
less.

LMAO

[Awsi Dooger]

Michelle's current putting posture is the most bizarre I've ever seen. She bends over to such extreme her torso is nearly parallel to the ground. That's not exaggerating. It's within an inch or two of pure parallel, especially on the shortest putts. I was there yesterday and couldn't believe what I was looking at. I wish I had gotten a picture on #17 because I was directly behind her line and it would have depicted it perfectly.

I found out later that photos were not allowed but the guy at the shuttle bus gave me the opposite info so I took quite a few until being confronted by a tour official as the leaders were on the 16th tee. I'll try to post them in the Titleholders thread when I get a chance.

I took one picture of Michelle, and one of BJ. He was never in her face, or nearby, in the holes I walked with them. Generally 10-20 yards removed, looking at charts and notes and peering through a range finder at the hole. Michelle birdied the first two holes I saw her play, 16 and 17. BJ was mostly invisible on 16 but when Michelle drained the 4 footer on the par 3 17th he screamed "YES!" from directly behind me, startling two old ladies standing to my right. They turned around and wondered who he was, until I filled them in. BJ was fist pumping and heading to the 18th tee, which is quite a trek from 17th green.

[Socrates]

Awsi Dooger, on 19 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Michelle's current putting posture is the most bizarre I've ever seen. She bends over to such extreme her torso is nearly parallel to the ground. That's not exaggerating. It's within an inch or two of pure parallel, especially on the shortest putts. I was there yesterday and couldn't believe what I was looking at. I wish I had gotten a picture on #17 because I was directly behind her line and it would have depicted it perfectly.

I found out later that photos were not allowed but the guy at the shuttle bus gave me the opposite info so I took quite a few until being confronted by a tour official as the leaders were on the 16th tee. I'll try to post them in the Titleholders thread when I get a chance.

I took one picture of Michelle, and one of BJ. He was never in her face, or nearby, in the holes I walked with them. Generally 10-20 yards removed, looking at charts and notes and peering through a range finder at the hole. Michelle birdied the first two holes I saw her play, 16 and 17. BJ was mostly invisible on 16 but when Michelle drained the 4 footer on the par 3 17th he screamed "YES!" from directly behind me, startling two old ladies standing to my right. They turned around and wondered who he was, until I filled them in. BJ was fist pumping and heading to the 18th tee, which is quite a trek from 17th green.

B.J. takes notes and make stats of every shot she makes in a little notebook.  From what I've heard it is the basis for grilling later.

[Mr22putt]

In 2010 in Portland, I saw BJ with not only a yard type booklets but also what looked to be topography maps of the course....lol.
At this year's CWO I didn't see the same booklets, but I'm sure he had something.
Yes, I would not doubt info is put into a spreadsheet and reviewed with MW back at the hotel.

I exchanged a few words with BJ at the CWO....I was surprised he still had an fairly think accent.I'm Chinese, so he might have been friendly to me cause he thought I was Korean.
He did exchange words in Korean with a quite few Korean male fans.
The fan base was approx 30-40% Asian at the CWO and only 5 mins from the course was KoreanTown.....the galleries were HUGE all week.

I will say, it was enlightening to see when MW was leaving the practice green and swarmed by auto seekers.....BJ reached in the bag and emptied all the golf balls and bent down to pass them out to the kids...he had a smile on his face.

[Awsi Dooger]

Two pictures I took on Sunday at CME Titleholders, both from the 17th tee box. Michelle Wie watches the flight of MJ Hur's shot. Michelle had honors after a birdie and hit a high soft draw to within 4 feet, slightly beyond the hole to the right. For anyone who watched the Sunday telecast, Michelle had the same putt that Brittany Lincicome missed for par late in the afternoon.

The photo of Michelle's father BJ Wie was taken before Michelle teed off. He was intently studying charts and booklets, then pulled out a range finder and looked at the pin, before taking some more notes.

[Mr22putt]

Awsi
That looks like Bo 10 ft in front of BJ.
In addition to MW's book, BJ's likely charts too cause this event is returning in 2013.
On TV, Bam Bam immediately wrote in her book on a par 3.
The course looked like it was playing really dry with lots of roll out on drives and some greens weren't holding.

I think Twin Eagles wanted this event to flog/advertise their real estate.

I think I mentioned to you b4 and can't remember your reply.
Would a LPGA event be well received and attended in the Miami area.......more so that other parts of Florida.

I think an event in LA would be well received cause of the large Korean community there.

I was on Alligator Alley in 1998...is there a lot of police radar/speed traps?

[rafal]

In Taiwan at the Sunrise the crowd was split between Yani Tseng(obviously) and Michelle Wie (err, well, obviously as well I guess).

The only one that was somewhat close to these two with respect to fan interest was NYC.

[tesuquegolfer]

Lots of interesting perspectives on Michelle, her issues, and her family.  I know she has talent and she came back on the weekend with a 71 and 69.  However, can she play 4 rounds of good golf?  I wonder if she has the work ethic required to play consistently.  I think she had fun being a college student and she has a lot of money, which were/are big distractions.  Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens in 2013.  I really like the LPGA as their are a lot of good and interesting stories out there.

[Awsi Dooger]

Mr22putt, on 19 November 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Awsi
That looks like Bo 10 ft in front of BJ.
In addition to MW's book, BJ's likely charts too cause this event is returning in 2013.
On TV, Bam Bam immediately wrote in her book on a par 3.
The course looked like it was playing really dry with lots of roll out on drives and some greens weren't holding.

I think Twin Eagles wanted this event to flog/advertise their real estate.

I think I mentioned to you b4 and can't remember your reply.
Would a LPGA event be well received and attended in the Miami area.......more so that other parts of Florida.

I think an event in LA would be well received cause of the large Korean community there.

I was on Alligator Alley in 1998...is there a lot of police radar/speed traps?

Yes, that's Bo. Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed her in the gallery but I didn't realize I had her in the picture. I was waiting for a clear shot of B.J. but without him looking at me in case he didn't appreciate a photo.

I'm sure they'll return to Naples, and probably TwinEagles, based on comments from the CEO of CME at the awards presentation. He emphasized that he and his wife own a home in Naples, are part time residents, and love the area. Michael Whan thanked him for the large winner's purse, which Whan described as virtually unprecedented on the LPGA for a non-major. When the CEO took the mike he described his first meeting with Whan a few years ago: "We can start in Orlando. But unless we relocate to Naples, I'm out."

Yes, the course itself was hard and dry for an LPGA track, particularly around the greens, which were much faster in person than they appeared on TV. I was very impressed by the -14 winning score given the conditions. It's a long course by LPGA standards and especially at sea level so the firm conditions helped shorten things. It's dry season in Florida.

The greens are very unusual for Florida, with prominent mounds and drop offs. I'd look at what the players faced from the approach shot area and there wasn't a lot of room for error, or always an obvious correct path. You really had to be precise and patient. Faldo golf. I wasn't surprised at the separation in the field. Many players were frustrated. I watched Jessica Korda butcher chips and putts on the short par 4 #16 toward double bogey then fling her ball into the pond left of 17 as she walked toward the tee.

Overall it's not a spectator friendly course, to put it mildly. The sharp drop offs don't leave much room for footing for large number of spectators. There aren't amphitheater holes. I'd look for highest ground behind the green but even at 6 foot 4 I couldn't always see the hole.

The layout is massive, zig zagging awkwardly between a residential development with hundreds of yards between green and tee. I was glad I've lost 10 pounds recently. Players and caddies were shuttled in carts. Often that wasn't ideal because the players would arrive at the tee box and be ready to play before the spectators caught up, so marshalls would be looking backwards and fruitlessly asking people to stop walking. The holes don't criss cross so there weren't short cuts to catch a nearby hole. I had to check my course map all day but there wasn't much strategy involved. You had to accept that everything would require a hike. Near the 13th tee I talked to a couple of homeowners who were amused because they said normally that course is practically empty.

They really need to improve the parking situation if it returns next year to the same course. General admission parking was 5 miles away at something called Fairgrounds. The signs were hardly sufficient to make that obvious, unless you're a local. They put up one tiny vague sign then leave you hanging. I turned around after two miles and drove back to the main gate. The gate attendant said he was dealing with that situation all week, that hundreds of people every day were confused and ended up pulling up to him, only to be told they still had 5 miles to drive. He said he begged his bosses several times to put up more signs and better signs but they never did. It was more than a 50 minute delay to drive to Fairgrounds, pay the parking fee, wait for the bus, leave in the bus, and make it to the tournament entrance, which was quite a weave through the sprawling property. The staff was fantastic but I was conditioned to want to growl at them based on what it took to get there.

I don't know about the LPGA in Miami. Cubans aren't keen on golf. Courses here are closing. When I'm at Doral every year the spectator base doesn't resemble what I see day to day around town. The Hispanics who do come want to see Tiger, the star power. Every year I'll be asked to estimate what hole Tiger is playing, and they'll dash in that direction. I don't want to stereotype too much but it's been my experience, that Tiger's gallery is more akin to the Miami population than the spectators as a block. The LPGA is probably better off in Broward or Palm Beach, if they return to this area. I noticed that Beth Ann Baldry tweeted a few days ago, "LPGA hoped to start 2013 season in South Florida but looks like that event fell through. Australian Open will again be the opener." That's too bad. BTW, Baldry was walking with the final group on Sunday. Whan was zipping around in a cart, occasionally stopping to talk to Baldry and others.

I can't say I'm an authority on Alligator Alley (I-75) these days. I make that route perhaps twice per year. It's markedly safer than the two-lane death trap I remember as a kid. Speed limit is 70. Most drivers were bumping that by at least 5 MPH. I didn't see many cops or speed traps but it was 7-9 AM and I was still recovering from the Canes game a night earlier. Actually the canned specialized radio station was interesting, describing a 2-foot high section of wire that was strung horizontally along the fence to prevent cars from plowing through the fence and into the alligator infested canals. Lots of drivers fall asleep on that road, including a relative who drove down from Vermont to visit my dad a few years ago. He made it to Alligator Alley but not to Miami, ending up in a hospital for a week after crashing into the bottom of an overpass. Luckily he's okay, and made it to Miami the following year.

Edited by Awsi Dooger, 20 November 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[tbowles411]

You certainly are a wealth of knowledge Awsi!

[Awsi Dooger]

tbowles411, on 20 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

You certainly are a wealth of knowledge Awsi!

Thanks tbowles. Unfortunately I didn't get to see your gal Paula on Sunday. She was first off the 10th tee at 8:20 and by the time I got to the course at 10 and looked at the map I couldn't figure out how to squeeze in those groups. I missed Paula and Gerina and Vicky, among a few others.

To tell you the truth, Sunday was a numbing day for me. My dad died a few weeks ago. We had planned early in the year to drive to Naples for this event. He was a huge LPGA fan, especially of Michelle, Paula and Cristie (Miami girl), but hadn't been able to see the tour in person in a very long time. Dad had a setback in late August, something he had no margin for, given pulmonary fibrosis. I mentioned in a thread about a year ago that he played golf with an portable oxygen tank hooked to his waist. On Saturday night I wasn't sure I'd make the drive but Sunday morning I decided to do it. Mornings are sleepless anyways but the more little things I do, the more it helps.

[tbowles411]

Awsi Dooger, on 20 November 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

tbowles411, on 20 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

You certainly are a wealth of knowledge Awsi!

Thanks tbowles. Unfortunately I didn't get to see your gal Paula on Sunday. She was first off the 10th tee at 8:20 and by the time I got to the course at 10 and looked at the map I couldn't figure out how to squeeze in those groups. I missed Paula and Gerina and Vicky, among a few others.

To tell you the truth, Sunday was a numbing day for me. My dad died a few weeks ago. We had planned early in the year to drive to Naples for this event. He was a huge LPGA fan, especially of Michelle, Paula and Cristie (Miami girl), but hadn't been able to see the tour in person in a very long time. Dad had a setback in late August, something he had no margin for, given pulmonary fibrosis. I mentioned in a thread about a year ago that he played golf with an portable oxygen tank hooked to his waist. On Saturday night I wasn't sure I'd make the drive but Sunday morning I decided to do it. Mornings are sleepless anyways but the more little things I do, the more it helps.

I'm sorry about your Dad bro.  I can't even imagine.  My boy and I will say a special prayer for you all tonight.

That was some tournament.  Given the way the LPGA is now, I sometimes wonder where it's headed.  I've spoken to a few tour folks and they are very excited where it's going.  I don't know if it's cautious optimism, or the company line, but the future is bright.  We just need more eyeballs.  Stacey Lewis winning POY will certainly not hurt golf any, but no one knows who she is really unless you're dedicated to knowing the girls out there.  She doesn't have the starpower that Cristie (who I really like..especially when she yells at her ball--hilarious), Natalie, my future ex Paula, and Michelle.  She just brings a raw talent and drive to get it done.

Aside from that Michelle needs some type of major change.  She can't go on shooting 81-77 and missing cuts.  She looks so lifeless out there, like she's not having any fun.

Edited by tbowles411, 20 November 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[MileHighClub]

Awsi Dooger, on 20 November 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

tbowles411, on 20 November 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

You certainly are a wealth of knowledge Awsi!

Thanks tbowles. Unfortunately I didn't get to see your gal Paula on Sunday. She was first off the 10th tee at 8:20 and by the time I got to the course at 10 and looked at the map I couldn't figure out how to squeeze in those groups. I missed Paula and Gerina and Vicky, among a few others.

To tell you the truth, Sunday was a numbing day for me. My dad died a few weeks ago. We had planned early in the year to drive to Naples for this event. He was a huge LPGA fan, especially of Michelle, Paula and Cristie (Miami girl), but hadn't been able to see the tour in person in a very long time. Dad had a setback in late August, something he had no margin for, given pulmonary fibrosis. I mentioned in a thread about a year ago that he played golf with an portable oxygen tank hooked to his waist. On Saturday night I wasn't sure I'd make the drive but Sunday morning I decided to do it. Mornings are sleepless anyways but the more little things I do, the more it helps.

Really sorry about your Dad, Awsi.