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Snedeker: Pace of play 'pathetic' on PGA Tour


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#31 Mschumacher

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.


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#32 Vindog

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.

T54 is better than MC?

Your point is on though, I think.  Superstars get a pass, but I think in many ways that is part of the problem.

Edited by Vindog, 16 November 2012 - 11:54 AM.

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#33 farmer

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

IF the tour would follow Peppers suggestions, and do it every time, no exceptions, they would speed up.  If muni's would assign a pace of play, give every group a time card and refund money for times under the pace, golf would speed up.  Without an incentive, slow play will continue.

#34 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.

All true.. except all are are trying in their own right, even if they end up T54.  So, are you saying "accomplishments" determine who can and who can't?
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#35 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:34 PM

View Postfarmer, on 16 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

IF the tour would follow Peppers suggestions, and do it every time, no exceptions, they would speed up.  If muni's would assign a pace of play, give every group a time card and refund money for times under the pace, golf would speed up.  Without an incentive, slow play will continue.

I like your later suggestion, but to make that work, courses would have to raise rates to offset refunds.  Profit margins are a product of each clubs definition of said margin.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 16 November 2012 - 12:35 PM.

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#36 esketores

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:00 PM

Pace of play the majority of the time is determined by the number of people on a course. Sure their are the groups who can't keep up with the group in front of them but my experience is when the course, rather it be Thursday/Friday of a pro tourney or a muni on a weekend, puts to many people out per hour slow play results. That will never change. Whine and moan all you want. It won't change regardless of any rule changes.
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#37 mesquite2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

Our courses have 10 minutes apart tee times, so only 6 groups per hour, we ALWAYS have to keep a close eye on pace of play, as it will get out of hand pretty quickly. I'ts not the rangers fault, it's always the players fault, they are the people creating the problem.

#38 Mschumacher

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:04 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.
  So, are you saying "accomplishments" determine who can and who can't?

Not necessarily.  Just saying, that is why some guys are given slack (Tiger).  Ben Crane, super slow,  never wins.  So the slow routine isn't helping anybody.

#39 Pepperturbo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.
  So, are you saying "accomplishments" determine who can and who can't?

Not necessarily.  Just saying, that is why some guys are given slack (Tiger).  Ben Crane, super slow,  never wins.  So the slow routine isn't helping anybody.

You're assuming because he hasn't won, his slow play has not bettered what he might other wise experienced if he played faster?  I suspect BC would disagree with your fatalist thinking, not to mention a great deal of golfers on this board.  :lol: its time for the gym...
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#40 mallrat

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:29 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing something like poker. Establish what is an acceptable time per shot. Then allow players to put each other on the clock. So any player in a group or the group behind who's being held up can put a player on the clock.

Have a player alert an official, have the official let the player who's been put on the clock know at the end of the hole that's he's been put on the clock. So say it's 30 seconds per shot but you blow the hole up and take an 8 on a par 5 you're not penalized for shooting a crappy score. So the next hole you're in in 2 on a par 3 but in takes you 4 minutes, you get a warning. As 2 shot's should be 1 minute. Next time you go over it's a 1 stroke penalty.


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#41 gators78

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

View PostMschumacher, on 16 November 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Love Snedeker's pace of play (Cabrera too).  They got to fix this!!

Tiger IMO is slow, especially when wind is a factor.  But I think most people give him a pass because he wins or it actually helps him.  When other guys play slow, whats the point if they finish T54 and still take a lot of time.
  So, are you saying "accomplishments" determine who can and who can't?

Not necessarily.  Just saying, that is why some guys are given slack (Tiger).  Ben Crane, super slow,  never wins.  So the slow routine isn't helping anybody.

Ben Crane has won 4 times on Tour so...yea...either way still a huge problem.

Edited by gators78, 16 November 2012 - 02:46 PM.


#42 Jamboy72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:52 PM

To me this is such an interesting facet of golf in that we have players, who in large part, do a great job of policing themselves and calling penalties on themselves, even when said penalty is stupid...but where there is something so obvious which they can do to help the game, they don't do it...and not only don't they address the issue, even in the face of fines, they don't do anything about it...

#43 boriqua'72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

I'm sorry but he's way off here... These guys all play at different speeds and the game of golf allows that. What does he want the tour to start doing? Have someone carry a 24 second shot clock with each group. This is a game that isn't dictated by time... in basketball teams are given 48 minutes to complete a game in golf you're given 18 holes to complete a game.

Let's not beat around the bush... the guy comes across as nervous and impatient... who is he to say how fast the game is supposed to be played at the highest level? Maybe he should drink some chamomile tea and slow the hell down and then maybe he might not gag more often when he's in contention.

And this is coming from someone who plays pretty fast... 1 practice swing, take a look and pull the trigger... and on the greens I read it once from behind, no practice stroke and pull... but I do it in a calm and gathered manner unlike this add having cry baby.

Edited by boriqua'72, 16 November 2012 - 05:18 PM.


#44 PZero

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

Give them all golf carts.
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#45 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostPZero, on 16 November 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Give them all golf carts.
Too funny...I was just going to post that.

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#46 Jamboy72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

View Postboriqua, on 16 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'm sorry but he's way off here... These guys all play at different speeds and the game of golf allows that. What does he want the tour to start doing? Have someone carry a 24 second shot clock with each group. This is a game that isn't dictated by time... in basketball teams are given 48 minutes to complete a game in golf you're given 18 holes to complete a game.

Let's not beat around the bush... the guy comes across as nervous and impatient... who is he to say how fast the game is supposed to be played at the highest level? Maybe he should drink some chamomile tea and slow the hell down and then maybe he might not gag more often when he's in contention.

And this is coming from someone who plays pretty fast... 1 practice swing, take a look and pull the trigger... and on the greens I read it once from behind, no practice stroke and pull... but I do it in a calm and gathered manner unlike this add having cry baby.

So I take it you don't think slow play is a problem then.  And, as of right now I believe Brandt is busy gagging on 11.4 million...but he'd probably do better if he slowed down...

#47 woods991

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 05:51 PM

you should see it at my club...lol, it has gotten bad, as bad as the pga..
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#48 mark m

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Postboriqua, on 16 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'm sorry but he's way off here... These guys all play at different speeds and the game of golf allows that. What does he want the tour to start doing? Have someone carry a 24 second shot clock with each group. This is a game that isn't dictated by time... in basketball teams are given 48 minutes to complete a game in golf you're given 18 holes to complete a game.

Let's not beat around the bush... the guy comes across as nervous and impatient... who is he to say how fast the game is supposed to be played at the highest level? Maybe he should drink some chamomile tea and slow the hell down and then maybe he might not gag more often when he's in contention.

And this is coming from someone who plays pretty fast... 1 practice swing, take a look and pull the trigger... and on the greens I read it once from behind, no practice stroke and pull... but I do it in a calm and gathered manner unlike this add having cry baby.

You don't make sense. Surely you know that the tours already have pace of play guidelines? They just aren't enforced and that is why this is a topic. It has been getting worse and the practice is filtering down to all levels of golf. It has been a big topic (on why golf is hurting) in numerous publications of late. Some of us believe that if they did firm things up on televised golf - that would have a very beneficial effect all down the line.

So yes - I am for a visable shot clock in each group. I believe this is the fairest and best way to garner the necessary pressure to get things moving. They already have the times that are allowed in their policy documents. I am sure there may be some tweaking that might have to happen as it is implemented. College basketball didn't have a shot clock for years - remember Phil Ford and the four corners offense? Pretty boring to watch. I'm glad they were smart enough to make a change. I wish it didn't need to be done for pro golf - but it is obvious that a change of some kind is needed. This change would also have a very beneficial effect on the quality of televised golf IMO.
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#49 rafal

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

Meh, pro's can play slow, doesn't affect me.  Not sure what Snedeker wants to accomplish attacking the organization that just allowed him to roll in 10 mil.
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#50 rafal

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 06:59 PM

I am sure he was greatly inconvenienced on his way to the 10 mil.  If they don't like playing on the PGA tour they should quit.

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#51 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:20 PM

There is another option: there is a thread going around where some advocate just hitting into the group in front of you if they are playing slowly. I suppose the USGA could issue hard hats and let other groups play through the hard way.

I mean after all...things are going from the ridiculous to the more ridiculous...
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#52 Jamboy72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

So because he won a bunch of money he shouldn't point out how ridiculous the pace of play is?

#53 Mschumacher

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:41 PM

Have a guy walking with a shot clock, and have a buzzer go off.  Even mid swing LOL

#54 rafal

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

View Posttopekareal, on 16 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

So because he won a bunch of money he shouldn't point out how ridiculous the pace of play is?

Can't be too ridiculous if he manages to go low anyway, can it now?

Each of us has an internal tempo.  Some of my playing partners are slow, others are crazy fast and barely can wait to hit another shot.  Trying to force them to behave differently messes up their games.
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#55 Sean2

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 07:49 PM

I think we can discuss this until the cows come home (whatever that means), but I don't think the PGA will ever resolve this issue. The LPGA seems to enforce it from time to time, but not the PGA.

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#56 atlanta golfer

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

View Posttofur99, on 15 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I feel like everyone agrees on this, yet nothing gets done about it.  they instead decide to focus on banning long putters which is ridiculous when they have 3-4 other issues that are way more in need of attention.

Oh come on, it is WAY more important to focus on long putters rather than 5.5 hour rounds.  After all, have you seen the way these long putters Look???

#57 boriqua'72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

View Postmark m, on 16 November 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

View Postboriqua, on 16 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'm sorry but he's way off here... These guys all play at different speeds and the game of golf allows that. What does he want the tour to start doing? Have someone carry a 24 second shot clock with each group. This is a game that isn't dictated by time... in basketball teams are given 48 minutes to complete a game in golf you're given 18 holes to complete a game.

Let's not beat around the bush... the guy comes across as nervous and impatient... who is he to say how fast the game is supposed to be played at the highest level? Maybe he should drink some chamomile tea and slow the hell down and then maybe he might not gag more often when he's in contention.

And this is coming from someone who plays pretty fast... 1 practice swing, take a look and pull the trigger... and on the greens I read it once from behind, no practice stroke and pull... but I do it in a calm and gathered manner unlike this add having cry baby.

You don't make sense. Surely you know that the tours already have pace of play guidelines? They just aren't enforced and that is why this is a topic. It has been getting worse and the practice is filtering down to all levels of golf. It has been a big topic (on why golf is hurting) in numerous publications of late. Some of us believe that if they did firm things up on televised golf - that would have a very beneficial effect all down the line.

So yes - I am for a visable shot clock in each group. I believe this is the fairest and best way to garner the necessary pressure to get things moving. They already have the times that are allowed in their policy documents. I am sure there may be some tweaking that might have to happen as it is implemented. College basketball didn't have a shot clock for years - remember Phil Ford and the four corners offense? Pretty boring to watch. I'm glad they were smart enough to make a change. I wish it didn't need to be done for pro golf - but it is obvious that a change of some kind is needed. This change would also have a very beneficial effect on the quality of televised golf IMO.

I'm making absolutely perfect sense... it isn't for Brandt Snedeker, who is notoriously the fastest player on tour, to decide what should be deemed too slow, normal, or too fast a pace of play.

Here's what Jack had to say about this issue...

Quote

“I don’t think there’s really a huge problem on the tour,” Nicklaus told reporters on the eve of the Memorial Tournament that kicks off Thursday at his Muirfield Golf Course in Dublin, Ohio. “You have an individual once in a while [but] the guys have got to learn ... how to not be a slow player. It took me a few years but I learned as the other guys will, too.”

As a spectator with regards to the tour I agree with Jack... with regards to recreational golf.. sure there is a problem but that's not what Snedeker is talking about, is it?

Edited by boriqua'72, 16 November 2012 - 08:17 PM.


#58 Vindog

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

View Postrafal, on 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Each of us has an internal tempo.  Some of my playing partners are slow, others are crazy fast and barely can wait to hit another shot.  Trying to force them to behave differently messes up their games.

So, slower players forcing faster paced players to play at their speed messes up the faster players' games?  I agree.  It's not fair to the faster, or even medium paced player...
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#59 scotto69

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

Some kind of chess clock might work.

In professional billiards in Europe, players are given a shot clock. When they play fast, they accrue time they can use for difficult situations later.

I've heard JB Holmes say that its different for pros, that a shot might cost them half a million, but so what? You still get a quarter million for 4th place. Hit the damn ball...if you take forever on every freaking shot, it sucks for the people you play with, the people who are watching, and you don't deserve the money.

These guys are the best in the world who have played golf their entire lives. It really shouldn't take them this long.

#60 Jamboy72

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:22 PM

View Postrafal, on 16 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

View Posttopekareal, on 16 November 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

So because he won a bunch of money he shouldn't point out how ridiculous the pace of play is?

Can't be too ridiculous if he manages to go low anyway, can it now?

Each of us has an internal tempo.  Some of my playing partners are slow, others are crazy fast and barely can wait to hit another shot.  Trying to force them to behave differently messes up their games.

So because a player can still shoot a low round, there is no pace of play problem? I guess I don't see it that way at all...there is a problem, not because of the scores being shot, but because of the absurd length it takes a player to finish 18 holes.  I have an internal tempo I like to drive a car...but that doesn't make it right or fair to the other people on the road...the fact is, there are pace of play rules...and because they're not enforced, the rules really don't exist...


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