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Do I flip because I dip?


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#1 golfinaz

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:30 PM

Or dip because I flip. Been working tirelessly at shortening  backswing and improving footwork. But when I took this video I liked the down the line views but impact looks just awful face on. I am with a teacher that teaches a similar method to slicefixer and others here. I would love to hear from everyone (especially Monte). I have read ET and watched all of Monte's videos but I'm kind of stuck here. I am going to make a lesson w my teacher as soon as I can but I need some input in the meantime. Thanks all!!



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#2 Fourmyle of Ceres

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

I don't know anything about swing mechanics but OMG are you ever tense. If I made anything close to a full swing with my forearms, shoulders, neck and chest clenched like that I'd hurt myself.

I say this because I have been there, done that as the saying goes. My advice is do not pass go, do not collect $200 and do not do any more swing drills until you can reset yourself and get rid of that awful tension!

#3 Lefthook

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

You are swinging the club with the right arm and letting the left side collapse before impact.

But your current grip will not allow you to do the right thing. So you should really fix your grip first.

#4 tommykrebs

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

I'm not an expert but this is what I see...

1. IMO you need for an rotational release a deeper hip turn in the backswing. Now your hands are so too deep behind you and in the downswing you are in a stuck position.

[attachment=1420915:no hip turn 2.jpg]   [attachment=1420917:stuck.jpg]

2. You have no spine tilt at the top of your swing and no tilt in the downswing. Therefore there is no room for your arms.

[attachment=1420919:transition 1.jpg] [attachment=1420921:transition 2.jpg]

3. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think as a result of a bad transition there is too much pressure in the right foot.

[attachment=1420923:pressure.jpg]

Russ can tell you more...

Edited by tommykrebs, 15 November 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#5 MDP1555

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

I cant see streaming video on this computer due to corprate firewall policy but beyond the thing mentioned above (thans to the photos Tommy posted) a few things that stick out to me. First your posture at the top is not too bad but I am only seeing down the line at this position. I suspect that you have created no noticable spine tilt to get you behind the ball. You are regriping with the right hand at the top. The palm of the right hand is coming very open at the top of the swing. It appears you create your spine tilt at the last moment before impact in an effort to stay behind the ball rather than setting it at address. Both arms are retracted at impact (chicken winged) and you are really up on the right big toe at impact.

Edited by MDP1555, 15 November 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#6 CSagan

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

Fix the grip and release the tension....which is easier to do with the right grip. That should be #1 priority until fixed.

#7 Petter Player

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

I second tommykrebs,

At address there is enough spine angle towards the ball, but it seems that you're too close to the ball and need to do both straighten your spine and pull your fists bending both arms in order to catch the ball. However there is no forward lean on the shaft at address, which I think results problems with the hand action.


The drive force for hip pivot is produced mostly by right foot. So I think, it is not that much a faul to keep the ball of your back foot grounded relatively late.

By the vid your shoulders seem to turn quite nicely. My next idea would have been, to monitor, if you stall your shoulder turn a bit just before impact, cause the lag seems to have vanished by the time shaft is horizontal on the down swing.

Edited by Petter Player, 16 November 2012 - 09:35 AM.


#8 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:31 PM

Great thread.  I have nothing to add.
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#9 dpc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

You have a strong hit impulse from the top.  That's why your shoulders dip to the ball in transition, steeping the shaft. Think swing from the bottom rather than hit from the top. Lefthook said you are swinging the club with your right arm and that is evident in the half way down photo Tommy posted(#4). It looks like all your weight is in the ball of your left foot, providing leverage for your hitting right arm to work against.  Also in this photo it looks like your right elbow is behind you. As a result rather than supporting the blow, your right hip and leg has to collapse out of the way to make room for the firing right arm.  The alternative from this position is to stall the pivot and fling the club by flipping the right forearm and wrist.  A couple of Monte's instructions might be helpful.

First, try to get your right elbow pointing at the ball in transition, or think of keeping your elbows closer together during the swing.  Many quality swings have the right elbow visible under the left arm at that point in the swing. Also, I would recommend you look at Monte's bump, dump, and turn to get your lower moving first in transition. Hope this helps

-dpc

#10 russc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

Instead of detailing your specific problems ,try these  drills .But before doing so,you need to fix your grip ,especially the way that your right hand fits with your left.

drills
place a nerf ball ,a little smaller  than a soccer ball between your elbows and make easy 9-3 swings..Hit balls with the nerf ball in place.this will help to synch up your arms to your body
Practice rolling on the inside  of your left foot going back and then on the inside of your right foot going down.This will help with the large movement of your right knee inwards  during your dwonswing
Place  a jumbo plastic golf bucket between knees  ,wide end up and hit balls with the bucket in place 9-3 only.Same reason as the previous drill.
Practice  the Ben Hogan 5 lessons drill.Note Mr  Hogan's  close connection of his  upper arms to his torso .The rhythmic back and forth motion will help reduce the tension and the funky move of changing the angle of the shaft while moving closer to the ball  that you make just before your takeaway.Place a ball down and hit it every third pass Again 9-3 only



Edited by russc, 17 November 2012 - 12:45 AM.


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#11 wmblake2000

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:16 PM

In Tommy's pic #2, the thing I notice is the right knee has moved too much to the front of the body (and you can see the heel off the ground). This has been/is an issue for me - the knee wants to move more inwardly down the line, so as to create more space for the arms to swing - this move gets the club too far outside.

Edit - the other thing is, people have posted several ideas. The OP posted a question about dipping - and is working with a teacher. The responses were related, but not directly so - or at least not explicitly tied to the outcome, not that I can see anyway. I think the critical thing when making significant changes when there are a series of related issues, is to make the changes systematically.  Hopefully your teacher sees a sequencing of changes and a process for you to go through, but otherwise I am not sure how one would implement the kinds of input here.

Edited by wmblake2000, 18 November 2012 - 10:47 PM.

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#12 golfinaz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:31 AM

I know my grip is the first and foremost thing to change, but do you guys think a good thought for me would be to try and keep my right heel/foot down longer in the downswing?  I feel like my hips spin out a little and that causes me to have to throw the club a little at the bottom to square it

#13 HateTheHighDraw

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

Widen your stance, loosen up your shoulders, turn behind the ball, clear your hips.

#14 Lefthook

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

View Postgolfinaz, on 21 November 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

I know my grip is the first and foremost thing to change, but do you guys think a good thought for me would be to try and keep my right heel/foot down longer in the downswing?  I feel like my hips spin out a little and that causes me to have to throw the club a little at the bottom to square it

There is no way to know whether the throwing is a cause or a band-aid until you start holding the club in a way that makes it possible to hit the ball without throwing. Everything will change if you fix your grip. Old problems will disappear and new will emerge.




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