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Johnny Miller is mean!


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#1 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:11 PM

That is all I have to say about that

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#2 Swingem

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

Did you just play The Ranch?
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#3 Conrad1953

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:33 PM

So was Joan Crawford.

#4 nitram

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

Alrighty Then
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#5 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!

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#6 duffer987

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

Worse than Bridges?!
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#7 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

Somehow bridges fits my eye better than Eagle vines despite the fact that Bridges is much Narrower.
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#8 oregongolf

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:30 PM

lol. I thought for sure this thread would either be about The Bridges, The Ranch, or even Whitney Oaks.

I don't think I know a single person who really enjoys a Miller course.

Edited by jon2, 14 November 2012 - 05:30 PM.


#9 tElihu

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

#10 Sean25rp

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!

That's driver and a flick for most wrxers!


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#11 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

Because I have an illogical need to make this game harder than it already is so when I play a shorter course it becomes easier.

View PosttElihu, on 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

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#12 duffer987

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Somehow bridges fits my eye better than Eagle vines despite the fact that Bridges is much Narrower.

Played Chardonnay and assumed Eagle Vines would be more of the same (without the silly 6/6/6 layout) and for someone of my non-back tees playing self, didn't think it was difficult. I've got to pop up to Napa now and check :)
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#13 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

View Postduffer987, on 14 November 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Somehow bridges fits my eye better than Eagle vines despite the fact that Bridges is much Narrower.

Played Chardonnay and assumed Eagle Vines would be more of the same (without the silly 6/6/6 layout) and for someone of my non-back tees playing self, didn't think it was difficult. I've got to pop up to Napa now and check :)

Playing Chardonnay tomorrow. Eagle Vines is a different beast altogether. Both in the same breathy canyon but play from the tips on both courses and one of them will leave you crying.
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#14 peanutandjelly

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

That is all I have to say about that
he is not mean...he is just much greater in his own mind that in reality....what you got there rog? huh? huh? is he going to hit a chunk and run hook fade stinger shot rog? huh Mark? gary? dottie? anybody want my opinion on choking? huh,huh?
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#15 Sean2

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:24 PM

Just hit a trap draw off the tee. You'll be fine.

Hey...be nice.

#16 Swingem

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:27 PM

I actually really like The Bridges, It's tough but scorable. It's an interesting track that makes you work on every hole.
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#17 duffer987

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostSwingem, on 14 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

... makes you work on every hole.

That's what she said.

I know, I know, I'll get my coat.
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#18 Bubb

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

Harmony Golf Preserve (in FLA) is no walk in the park either.
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#19 duffer987

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:57 PM

^See I liked Harmony. It's an example of where his design teams/partnerships can do good work, if they aren't overly concerned about making 'tough tracks'.
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#20 Grapehunter

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

Some of these golf course designers are absurd though. Clear case of daddy didn't love them enough. Always something to prove. Plenty of tough tracks that work on a risk/reward mantra but some designers work on a risk/youwillgetzerogratificationforhittinganythingotherthanputteroffthisteeoroffthefairwayintothegreen system.

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#21 Hattori Hanzo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostSean2, on 14 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Just hit a trap draw off the tee. You'll be fine.

No no no, Sean, you have it all wrong! Everyone knows that hole sets up better for a skanky fade!

Edited by Hattori Hanzo, 14 November 2012 - 09:51 PM.

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#22 Sean2

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostHattori Hanzo, on 14 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

View PostSean2, on 14 November 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Just hit a trap draw off the tee. You'll be fine.

No no no, Sean, you have it all wrong! Everyone knows that hole sets up better for a skanky fade!
I stand corrected Hattori. :-)

Edited by Sean2, 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM.

Hey...be nice.

#23 ryancjordan

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:30 PM

Bridges is terrible.  Ranch is worse.  Eagle Vines is a complete and utter joke, one of the worst courses I've ever played.  Surprisingly, I really like Chardonnay a lot and think it is a great course.  I played a work tournament at Eagle Vines and simply could not believe how bad the layout was.  I remember one hole with a completely blind drive, like you can see a tree branch you're hitting over and thats it.  All 4 of us hit good drives, we could only find 2.  Just such a bad course, I really can't believe it.  And yeah, 499 is just stupid for a par 4 on a public course no matter what the tee.  Yay new golf, try to hit it as long as you possibly can every shot and don't think about anything ever.

Oh, not to mention that Miller is pretty insufferable in general anyway.

#24 Grapehunter

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

View Postryancjordan, on 15 November 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Bridges is terrible.  Ranch is worse.  Eagle Vines is a complete and utter joke, one of the worst courses I've ever played.  Surprisingly, I really like Chardonnay a lot and think it is a great course.  I played a work tournament at Eagle Vines and simply could not believe how bad the layout was.  I remember one hole with a completely blind drive, like you can see a tree branch you're hitting over and thats it.  All 4 of us hit good drives, we could only find 2.  Just such a bad course, I really can't believe it.  And yeah, 499 is just stupid for a par 4 on a public course no matter what the tee.  Yay new golf, try to hit it as long as you possibly can every shot and don't think about anything ever.

Oh, not to mention that Miller is pretty insufferable in general anyway.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. Just finished 18 at Chardonnay. Beautiful layout, challenging multi tiered greens. Right next to Eagle Vines but after playing Chardonnay I don't think I'll ever play Eagle Vines again.
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#25 Pepperturbo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PosttElihu, on 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.

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#26 Grapehunter

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

View PosttElihu, on 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.

I see your point but regardless of what tees you are playing, there are still multiple blind fairways, funneled fairway in landing zone, elevated tiny and hard multi tiered greens, one three fairway par 5, high 300 yarder par 4's from the whites.

The course isn't just retarded from the tips. It's retarded from any tee box.

Put it this way, Chardonnay golf course sold a chunk of their golf course to Eagle Vines. Johnny Miller completely redesigned those purchased holes and added more to make it a full 18.

Both courses are in similar condition and yet on golfnow.com you can play at Eagle Vines for about $33 while you'd pay $48 for Chardonnay at a similar tee time. Why? Because despite the lower price for Eagle Vines, Chardonnay sees more traffic because Eagle Vines was over designed.
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#27 Pepperturbo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostGrapehunter, on 15 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

View PosttElihu, on 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.

I see your point but regardless of what tees you are playing, there are still multiple blind fairways, funneled fairway in landing zone, elevated tiny and hard multi tiered greens, one three fairway par 5, high 300 yarder par 4's from the whites.

The course isn't just retarded from the tips. It's retarded from any tee box.

Put it this way, Chardonnay golf course sold a chunk of their golf course to Eagle Vines. Johnny Miller completely redesigned those purchased holes and added more to make it a full 18.

Both courses are in similar condition and yet on golfnow.com you can play at Eagle Vines for about $33 while you'd pay $48 for Chardonnay at a similar tee time. Why? Because despite the lower price for Eagle Vines, Chardonnay sees more traffic because Eagle Vines was over designed.

I hear you.. just don't agree with you.  I am 60+ and still play courses 72-75/130-140 out to 6900yds.  What I don't do is when I have a bad day, because I made the wrong decision or got beat up, blame it on the course designer because holes didn't suite my eye, or ability to execute.  You also make it sound as though everyone would feel that way, and that just isn't the case.

Did you play the 75.4/140 tees?  There are 3 other easier options to chose from.  I happen to enjoy difficult challenging courses.  Man up... or pick easier courses or maybe shorter tees.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 15 November 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#28 Grapehunter

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 15 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 15 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 15 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

View PosttElihu, on 14 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostGrapehunter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.

I see your point but regardless of what tees you are playing, there are still multiple blind fairways, funneled fairway in landing zone, elevated tiny and hard multi tiered greens, one three fairway par 5, high 300 yarder par 4's from the whites.

The course isn't just retarded from the tips. It's retarded from any tee box.

Put it this way, Chardonnay golf course sold a chunk of their golf course to Eagle Vines. Johnny Miller completely redesigned those purchased holes and added more to make it a full 18.

Both courses are in similar condition and yet on golfnow.com you can play at Eagle Vines for about $33 while you'd pay $48 for Chardonnay at a similar tee time. Why? Because despite the lower price for Eagle Vines, Chardonnay sees more traffic because Eagle Vines was over designed.

I hear you.. just don't agree with you.  I am 60+ and still play courses 72-75/130-140 out to 6900yds.  What I don't do is when I have a bad day, because I made the wrong decision or got beat up, blame it on the course designer because holes didn't suite my eye, or ability to execute.  You also make it sound as though everyone would feel that way, and that just isn't the case.

Did you play the 75.4/140 tees?  There are 3 other easier options to chose from.  I happen to enjoy difficult challenging courses.  Man up... or pick easier courses or maybe shorter tees.

Let me preface to say that I've played Eagle Vines several times and have never scored well there. I keep going back because I too enjoy the challenge. It wasn't so much of a complaint as it was a submission to the difficulty of the course design. Having said that, I've played several other equally difficult (according to slope rating) courses, but somehow I can put together an ok round having never played those courses before. They all have elements of difficulty about them. It just seems that this course goes the extra mile to include most or all of those difficult elements on every single hole.


And yes I played off the 75.4/140 tees. Most of the time I'll play the 73.7/135 tees.

Edited by Grapehunter, 15 November 2012 - 05:51 PM.

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#29 Pepperturbo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1353019857' post='5940169']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1353018963' post='5940099']
[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1353016271' post='5939883']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1353008581' post='5939351']
[quote name='tElihu' timestamp='1352932280' post='5934827']
[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1352931058' post='5934731']
Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!
[/quote]


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?
[/quote]

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.
[/quote]

I see your point but regardless of what tees you are playing, there are still multiple blind fairways, funneled fairway in landing zone, elevated tiny and hard multi tiered greens, one three fairway par 5, high 300 yarder par 4's from the whites.

The course isn't just retarded from the tips. It's retarded from any tee box.

Put it this way, Chardonnay golf course sold a chunk of their golf course to Eagle Vines. Johnny Miller completely redesigned those purchased holes and added more to make it a full 18.

Both courses are in similar condition and yet on golfnow.com you can play at Eagle Vines for about $33 while you'd pay $48 for Chardonnay at a similar tee time. Why? Because despite the lower price for Eagle Vines, Chardonnay sees more traffic because Eagle Vines was over designed.
[/quote]

I hear you.. just don't agree with you.  I am 60+ and still play courses 72-75/130-140 out to 6900yds.  What I don't do is when I have a bad day, because I made the wrong decision or got beat up, blame it on the course designer because holes didn't suite my eye, or ability to execute.  You also make it sound as though everyone would feel that way, and that just isn't the case.

Did you play the 75.4/140 tees?  There are 3 other easier options to chose from.  I happen to enjoy difficult challenging courses.  Man up... or pick easier courses or maybe shorter tees.
[/quote]

Let me preface to say that I've played Eagle Vines several times and have never scored well there. I keep going back because I too enjoy the challenge. It wasn't so much of a complaint as it was a submission to the difficulty of the course design. Having said that, I've played several other equally difficult (according to slope rating) courses, but somehow I can put together an ok round having never played those courses before. They all have elements of difficulty about them. It just seems that this course goes the extra mile to include most or all of those difficult elements on every single hole.


And yes I played off the 75.4/140 tees. Most of the time I'll play the 73.7/135 tees.
[/quote]

Got ya... Sounds like the course doesn't set up in your eye well, that happens to some people, including me.  I know guys that play some courses in CA that complain till their blue in the face about how tough they are... yet they revisit at later dates.  When someone keeps going back, even when they are beat up, they must like being beat up, or maybe the courses they normally play are considerably easier, which fosters lazy thinking and/or skills.  :lol:  I like it when a course eats my lunch.  It shows me I am not as good as I think, or more likely, my skills have rust due to easier courses.  Some courses have forgiveness designed in.. others lack forgiveness, and test character.  Which ever it is, its not in my nature to give up.

There's a reason The Stadium course at PGA West plays part in Q school, but doesn't host actual PGA Tour events.  Stadium course eats their lunch more then they want to admit, even without US Open setup :)

Edited by Pepperturbo, 15 November 2012 - 06:06 PM.

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#30 Grapehunter

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:14 PM

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1353020647' post='5940207']
[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1353019857' post='5940169']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1353018963' post='5940099']
[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1353016271' post='5939883']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1353008581' post='5939351']
[quote name='tElihu' timestamp='1352932280' post='5934827']
[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1352931058' post='5934731']
Just played Eagle Vines from the tips. 499 yard par 4? Really Johnny? Really?!!
[/quote]


If you don't want to play a 499 yard par 4 why play from the tips?
[/quote]

I wondered the same thing.  More and more people think their criticisms of this or that seem to have some bearing on what the rest of us think and enjoy.  Like JM really cares what average Joe golfer thinks when playing the tips.
[/quote]

I see your point but regardless of what tees you are playing, there are still multiple blind fairways, funneled fairway in landing zone, elevated tiny and hard multi tiered greens, one three fairway par 5, high 300 yarder par 4's from the whites.

The course isn't just retarded from the tips. It's retarded from any tee box.

Put it this way, Chardonnay golf course sold a chunk of their golf course to Eagle Vines. Johnny Miller completely redesigned those purchased holes and added more to make it a full 18.

Both courses are in similar condition and yet on golfnow.com you can play at Eagle Vines for about $33 while you'd pay $48 for Chardonnay at a similar tee time. Why? Because despite the lower price for Eagle Vines, Chardonnay sees more traffic because Eagle Vines was over designed.
[/quote]

I hear you.. just don't agree with you.  I am 60+ and still play courses 72-75/130-140 out to 6900yds.  What I don't do is when I have a bad day, because I made the wrong decision or got beat up, blame it on the course designer because holes didn't suite my eye, or ability to execute.  You also make it sound as though everyone would feel that way, and that just isn't the case.

Did you play the 75.4/140 tees?  There are 3 other easier options to chose from.  I happen to enjoy difficult challenging courses.  Man up... or pick easier courses or maybe shorter tees.
[/quote]

Let me preface to say that I've played Eagle Vines several times and have never scored well there. I keep going back because I too enjoy the challenge. It wasn't so much of a complaint as it was a submission to the difficulty of the course design. Having said that, I've played several other equally difficult (according to slope rating) courses, but somehow I can put together an ok round having never played those courses before. They all have elements of difficulty about them. It just seems that this course goes the extra mile to include most or all of those difficult elements on every single hole.


And yes I played off the 75.4/140 tees. Most of the time I'll play the 73.7/135 tees.
[/quote]

Got ya... Sounds like the course doesn't set up in your eye well, that happens to some people, including me.  I know guys that play some courses in CA that complain till their blue in the face about how tough they are... yet they revisit at later dates.  When someone keeps going back, even when they are beat up, they must like being beat up, or maybe the courses they normally play are considerably easier, which fosters lazy thinking and/or skills.  :lol:  I like it when a course eats my lunch.  It shows me I am not as good as I think, or more likely, my skills have rust due to easier courses.  Some courses have forgiveness designed in.. others lack forgiveness, and test character.  Which ever it is, its not in my nature to give up.

There's a reason The Stadium course at PGA West plays part in Q school, but doesn't host actual PGA Tour events.  Stadium course eats their lunch more then they want to admit, even without US Open setup :)
[/quote]


Precisely... I've left Eagle Vines completely frustrated, then on the same day play another course that is far easier and shoot 10 strokes better. Sure ill feel good about it but nowhere near as good if I ever shoot a low round at Eagle Vines. It's my Achilles heel. I might piss and moan but ill be back lol.

It's the same reason why I play blades. No one ever fostered positive change without pushing the boundaries of their comfort zone.

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