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how does one improve there AOA?


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#1 ksgolfguy007

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

Hi I was on the monitor the other  day and noticed my AOA was like 1.3 how do I get it to lets say 5? what swing thoughts do I need to have. anything will help me understand

thanks


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#2 kellygreen

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

View Postksgolfguy007, on 14 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Hi I was on the monitor the other  day and noticed my AOA was like 1.3 how do I get it to lets say 5? what swing thoughts do I need to have. anything will help me understand

thanks

If you are talking about a driver, you can cultivate a more positive AoA by moving the ball forward in your stance, and keeping a bit more weight on your back foot at address.   The same things that they tell you to do in order to hit an iron shot higher than you normally would (because that is essentially how you do it, you hit the ball with a less descending blow).

But I'd be careful trying cultivate a +5* AoA, because such a radical alteration to your swing is liable to cause you some significant control problems.  If there aren't any major flaws to your address with the driver, a simpler solution to getting a higher lauch is to either go with more loft....or a shaft designed to promote a higher launch.
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#3 mizunostaffer

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:42 PM

Id stick with what you have got, most tour players are closer to 0 than that

If you really want to increase id, try and keep your spine angle tiltled away from the target through impact untill your shoulders pull you over to your left side. This has really helped my angle of attack, but im alot steeper than you

#4 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

View Postksgolfguy007, on 14 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Hi I was on the monitor the other  day and noticed my AOA was like 1.3 how do I get it to lets say 5? what swing thoughts do I need to have. anything will help me understand

thanks

I agree with mizuno staffers point, but the only good way to do it is to increase tilt at impact using the lower body moving forward and upper body staying back.

If you increase tilt by dropping the right shoulder, that's bad.
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#5 mizunostaffer

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

so is it a case of trying to retain the tilted spine angle you set at address whilst bumping the left hip to establish the left ankle pivot point?

To me it "feels" like I just try to keep my head behind the ball, no real dropping of the shoulder or anything.

One thing I can say though is that keeping the spine tilted really helps get the club infront of you. No more inside attack angle, much higher ballflight also. i also suspect that swinging the club in this manor actually increases the time the path and face spend square to the target

quite a big difference for me, as relativly speaking, ive probably been getting ahead of the ball for 10 years! im guessing that the hands tend to do the opposite of the body action in the regard of lag retention eg if your ahead of it you will try to scoop it steep high spin loft , if you stay behind it your wrists will retain lag longer, shallow AoA and low spin loft?


#6 PutterKilledTheDream

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:46 PM

View Postkellygreen, on 14 November 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

View Postksgolfguy007, on 14 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Hi I was on the monitor the other  day and noticed my AOA was like 1.3 how do I get it to lets say 5? what swing thoughts do I need to have. anything will help me understand

thanks

If you are talking about a driver, you can cultivate a more positive AoA by moving the ball forward in your stance, and keeping a bit more weight on your back foot at address.   The same things that they tell you to do in order to hit an iron shot higher than you normally would (because that is essentially how you do it, you hit the ball with a less descending blow).

But I'd be careful trying cultivate a +5* AoA, because such a radical alteration to your swing is liable to cause you some significant control problems.  If there aren't any major flaws to your address with the driver, a simpler solution to getting a higher lauch is to either go with more loft....or a shaft designed to promote a higher launch.
+1 I totally agree.....moving the ball up and closing your stance will help, along with feeling like the handle of the club is raising up at impact. We know that hitting up 5 * maximizes potential driver distance, but requires such a different move to the ball that most players lose control. True is, most tour pros hit down nearly 2* with the driver, and with higher clubhead/ball speeds  I think accuracy should trump distance for most amateur players. Most players, in my experience with TrackMan, feel the shaft unload better and feel a more solid impact with a slightly decending/ level attack angle. If most tour players can't swing up 5* degrees seems kinda silly to try to assume ameteurs would be successful. Just my 2 cents.

#7 chiva

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

The average AOA of the LPGA tour is a fair amount more than the 1.3 down AOA of the PGA tour. All the ladies hit significantly up on the ball. I've changed to this and have noticed greater accuracy and more distance. You just have to go the the range and get comfortable with it. This will take some doing.

#8 ksgolfguy007

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:06 PM

Thanks for the info so in the simplest term what is an ideal AOA?

#9 Cmartingolf

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:28 PM

Ascent or descent into the ball....

Here the Trackman newsletter to shed more light: http://www.trackman....newsletter2.pdf

#10 inpresX

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

+1.3° is a great angle of attack. Here are PGA and LPGA tour averages from 2009.

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#11 inpresX

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

I have a feeling 2012 tour driver averages will have higher AOAs and lower spin rates.

#12 kellygreen

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostinpresX, on 15 November 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I have a feeling 2012 tour driver averages will have higher AOAs and lower spin rates.

I doubt signifcantly.

Spin my cost distance, but it also gives control.   Bubba Watson has a freakishly low spin rate off the driver (which is part of the reason why he hits it so far), but it is also part the reason why he has difficulty findign fairways.

Drop too much spin off of your irons, and they start to lose their stopping power.   Partly this can be made up by hitting the ball higher and stopping it with trajectory...but there is a limit to this, as tour pros play a lot in the wind.
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#13 inpresX

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

My though was that the players would have become more educated with all this trackman data in the past 3 years, and would have made changes in their swings to get closer to the ideal AOA and spin rates.

I really wish they had AOA stats on the pga tour website.

#14 RONOC

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Have you heard of or checked out the compression board ?  compressionboard.com

This will help with AoA big time



#15 J.W.

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:21 PM

View Postkellygreen, on 19 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

View PostinpresX, on 15 November 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I have a feeling 2012 tour driver averages will have higher AOAs and lower spin rates.

I doubt signifcantly.

Spin my cost distance, but it also gives control.   Bubba Watson has a freakishly low spin rate off the driver (which is part of the reason why he hits it so far), but it is also part the reason why he has difficulty findign fairways.

Drop too much spin off of your irons, and they start to lose their stopping power.   Partly this can be made up by hitting the ball higher and stopping it with trajectory...but there is a limit to this, as tour pros play a lot in the wind.

Yep, and even Bubba hits it nothing like that on the course.  He averages 8 launch and 3000+ spin on the tour...  All these guys hit it far enough to win.  Golf isn't played on TrackMan.


#16 HappyGolf

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 14 November 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

the only good way to do it is to increase tilt at impact using the lower body moving forward and upper body staying back.

If you increase tilt by dropping the right shoulder, that's bad.

Totally agree... the more you drive the hips towards the target (whilst the head stays back) the more secondary axis tilt you will have on your spine anlge (tilted away from the target) and the higher your AoA will be...... note: generally you need to line up a fraction closed to make up for the change in path that the club will be on at impact due to the 'hitting up'.

The head staying back whilst the hips go forward has NOTHING to do with keeping weight on your right side... you are in fact trying to go MORE left.

Edited by HappyGolf, 19 November 2012 - 08:36 PM.


#17 dana dahlquist

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostJ.W., on 19 November 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

View Postkellygreen, on 19 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

View PostinpresX, on 15 November 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I have a feeling 2012 tour driver averages will have higher AOAs and lower spin rates.

I doubt signifcantly.

Spin my cost distance, but it also gives control.   Bubba Watson has a freakishly low spin rate off the driver (which is part of the reason why he hits it so far), but it is also part the reason why he has difficulty findign fairways.

Drop too much spin off of your irons, and they start to lose their stopping power.   Partly this can be made up by hitting the ball higher and stopping it with trajectory...but there is a limit to this, as tour pros play a lot in the wind.

Yep, and even Bubba hits it nothing like that on the course.  He averages 8 launch and 3000+ spin on the tour...  All these guys hit it far enough to win.  Golf isn't played on TrackMan.
Yes, however a normal human can't produce enough speed to do what Bubba does.

In fact most the tour players in the top tier in distance would be considered freaks in terms of speed. That being said the average player can't swing that fast.

Todays ball likes less spin and a higher launch, more spin = less control if it spins more than optimal.

Most guys Ive seen on Trackman swinging less that 102 mph launch it too low and too much spin.

But to that point there are a bunch of reason guys have higher AOA. Even too much lag can be one that bleeds into that.

#18 lookma_nobackswing

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

View PostinpresX, on 15 November 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I have a feeling 2012 tour driver averages will have higher AOAs and lower spin rates.

i am of the opinion that this will be the trend going forward.  but only time will tell.   for what it is worth, long drive and the LPGA have gone in this direction




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