114 replies to this topic

[LONG&STR8]

indygolfman, on 20 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

indygolfman, on 18 December 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

WT Door, on 18 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Thanks.  My understanding, and I'd love to be straightened out if I'm wrong, is that most LM and/or simulators record backspin.  I have seen a few that calculate and display sidespin as an actual number but not very many.

Further, I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the reasons 3w is recommended for many high handicappers is that the extra backspin generated somewhat counteracts the side spin imparted by poor club path and face angle (ie, by the typical 'pull-slice').  In essence, the 'resultant' or 'effective' spin is less 'off axis' when pure backspin is increased.  This is why its hard to hook or slice the snot out of a short iron (although as Bubba showed at Augusta, it can be done).

I could be botching this recollection or the origninal writer may have been out to lunch.  If this is a gross conceptual error I'd love to be educated.

Very interesting!  Anyone have some info on this?

Great point.

Anyone?

That's correct. The higher amount of backspin counteracts sidespin so you usually need more side spin (or the face needs to be more open or closed) in order to get the same amount of curve. That's also why usually it's harder to hit an 8.5* driver straight than a 10.5*. The 10.5* will usually back spiin more so sidespin doesn't take the ball so much off line.

Of course the holy grail is low back spin with low side spin (partially from high MOI?) for a given swing speed for long and straight drives.

[jfpga123]

LONG&STR8, on 20 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

indygolfman, on 20 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

indygolfman, on 18 December 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

WT Door, on 18 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Thanks.  My understanding, and I'd love to be straightened out if I'm wrong, is that most LM and/or simulators record backspin.  I have seen a few that calculate and display sidespin as an actual number but not very many.

Further, I seem to recall reading years ago that one of the reasons 3w is recommended for many high handicappers is that the extra backspin generated somewhat counteracts the side spin imparted by poor club path and face angle (ie, by the typical 'pull-slice').  In essence, the 'resultant' or 'effective' spin is less 'off axis' when pure backspin is increased.  This is why its hard to hook or slice the snot out of a short iron (although as Bubba showed at Augusta, it can be done).

I could be botching this recollection or the origninal writer may have been out to lunch.  If this is a gross conceptual error I'd love to be educated.

Very interesting!  Anyone have some info on this?

Great point.

Anyone?

That's correct. The higher amount of backspin counteracts sidespin so you usually need more side spin (or the face needs to be more open or closed) in order to get the same amount of curve. That's also why usually it's harder to hit an 8.5* driver straight than a 10.5*. The 10.5* will usually back spiin more so sidespin doesn't take the ball so much off line.

Of course the holy grail is low back spin with low side spin (partially from high MOI?) for a given swing speed for long and straight drives.

Not sure that is correct

[jfpga123]

wrong video

[Oilman83]

I20 and Anser beat out the 913 anyday of the week! My trackman numbers were night and day with i20 vs 913.

[WT Door]

JFPGA--

Excellent.  Very informative and a superb balance of technical against practical.

He didn't get into the actual impact of lower spin vs high spin but I'll search the rest of his videos for that.  Thanks.

[indygolfman]

jfpga123, on 21 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

wrong video

Awesome, awesome video!  Thanks for sharing!  It appears that the hypothesis might be true from earlier!

[Bubb]

Great video!

[wick_dawg]

indygolfman, on 10 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Well I'd like to start off by saying Happy Veterans Day tomorrow!  Coming from one veteran to all you others:  Thank You

Now to the meat and potatoes of this thread.

Today, my wife was so kind as to drop me off at Golfsmith for about an hour and a half while she ran around town running some errands (she's a gem).  I walked in very excited to try the new 913 series based off of some reviews and threads rolling around here like J.W.'s.  Actually, I was picking up my 9064ls that I had shortened to 44 1/8 and swingweighted to D4, but that's another story.

So, I didn't have any assistance from a salesperson because they've seen me in there enough to know that I know enough about clubs and how to use thier launch monitors to just leave me alone and I'll figure it out myself.  Therefore I can pretty safely say that there was no monitor jacking or any shenanigans of the sort.

After hitting about 20 balls with my 9064 to get warmed up I went straight to the 913 section, and I found a 913D3 9.5 head attached to a Diamana D+ 72 Stiff.  I prefer an 8.5 but they didn't have one.  I proceeded to hit the D3 with the D+ for about 20 balls and WOW!  The 913 series is definitely the best FEELING driver that I've ever hit.  Every shot felt like it was pured.  I'm not kidding, this thing feels amazing.  After looking over the LM numbers, I was doing about the same as my 9064ls (about 16* launch with a little over 4000 backspin).  Every shot was a ballooner with a decent angle of ALMOST 50*!!  The amazing feel was definitely translating to performance for me.

I then found a 913D2 with the RIP Phenom in Stiff flex.  Basicly the same results here.  AMAZING feel, similar numbers as the D3 with D+.  (Both of these heads were 9.5)

I really was surprised about the spin numbers I was getting.  Then I look over tand see an 8.5 Anser with a stock Ahina 70S.  So I randomly grab it to take a couple of swings.  BOOM, then BOOM, then BOOM!  Whoa.... I walk over to the LM to check out the numbers and almost every swing was below 3000 rpms!  I couldn't believe it.  I kept thinking to myself: "Self, isn't this the same shaft that I was hitting in the D3 more or less?"  Time after time, shot after shot I was KILLING it!  As you can see from the LM numbers, my launch angles dropped to around 14* and my decent angle went down to the low 40's, but SPIN was consistently below 3000!  This translated to a nearly 20 yard carry increase over the D3.  (not to mention Total Distance)

LM 1.jpg

LM 2.jpg

Now, as you can see I was getting a little better swingspeed numbers on average with the Anser, which can probably be attributed to my confidence while swinging it.  I really wanted to love the 913 series, and I DO think they are great clubs.  Like I said before, it feels better than anything, hands down.  The Anser feels good, but not as good as the 913.  BUT, I can't argue with the numbers?!

I really like looking down at the 913D3 more than the Anser, although the more I hit it the more I liked it.  I really like the feel of the 913 better than the Anser.  However, as you can tell, I'm pretty excited and will be OWNING an ANSER soon.

I really wish I would have had my gamer there with me to compare.  It's an RHT 8.5 with a Fubuki Alpha 60S 45" D3 (thanks Aces-6!), and I really love it.  So, obviously the next step is to compare it to the Anser, but honestly I've never gotten LM numbers from anything like I was from the Ping today.

I did hit an i20 as well to try to compare a little, but I really hated the feel of it.  Maybe it was the PX 6.0?  I don't know.  I got some decent numbers, but it felt like crap to me.  I also don't really like the head shape of the i20.  I know it's similar to the Anser, but I just didn't get along with it.

So, all in all, I really think the Anser head is a LOW SPIN monster as we say.  I'm not sure what else it could be since I pretty much hit the same shaft in the 913?  Now all I have to do is sell my 9064ls and RHT (oh man   not looking forward to that) so I can pick up my new baby!  I hope you guys find this review helpful!

RECAP RANKINGS:

Looks:
913D3
913D2
Anser
i20

Feel:
913D2/3
Anser
i20

Performance:
Anser
i20
913D3
913D2

It's great to finally see someone doing it the right way and choosing a club based on performance rather than looks or brand loyalty or how cool you are for having a certain club.

At the end of the day, the only thing that actually matters is performance. Period.

I don't care if a driver looks like giant dingleberry at the end of kangaroo femur and feels like you're slapping the ball with a dead fish... If I can hit the ball 300 yards dead center 100% of the time, I'm going to be playing that driver.

Too many people are focused on all the wrong things. Performance is what really matters. If people can't get past things such as crown graphics or a muted sound, then that is all just mental issues that they need to get over.

And the dumbest thing is pre-ordering a club before you even have a chance to even hit a demo even once. Those people have zero idea if that club works well with their swing. It's impossible to know that. There's so many examples where the follow up to a club you have and like isn't as good as the one you have. But there's always those people who have to have whatever is new so they can be cool. They're really just overcompensating for other shortcomings in their life.

Good for you for choosing what actually worked best for you as opposed to what you wanted to work for you. More people should do what you did. They might not end up with a single brand bag, but they would end up  being better golfers.

[NRJyzr]

wick_dawg, on 21 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

It's great to finally see someone doing it the right way and choosing a club based on performance rather than looks or brand loyalty...

Ironic you'd post that.  I'm close to buying a TM driver, something I wouldn't have done even six months ago.  My interest was piqued because of the crazy performance I got with a demo on course.

It was very much an "I can't believe how good this thing is for me" moment.

Sort of the antithesis of brand loyalty, but seems to fit the theme.  

Edited by NRJyzr, 21 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[kyledrum2002]

Same for me with 913 D2. By far the most solid and aesthetically pleasing. However, underperformed every other driver I tested it. I wanted it to work it felt so solid.

[perry.m.gill]

I got better numbers from the Anser (in the neutral position) but ultimately went with the 913D3.

• I tested both in an 8.5. Both in an x flex Diaman D+ 70g.
  
• The Anser had lower launch and spin, but I could pretty much match it cranking the 913 down. It would be interesting to know the true loft of the different clubs... The Anser 8.5 seems seems more like a 7.5 to me.
  
• For me the Anser really liked to be cut. The 913D3 is more neutral and I could work it both ways.
  
• Both looked great, but ultimately the 913D3 felt much better to me. Although, I like the old 910D3's sound much better.
  
• The wider variance for face angle of the 913D3 was also a plus for me. It's awesome that you can dial in the Anser, but I live in Washington and the fairways vary from fast to mud. I like the ability to change the ball flight to maximize carry or roll.

[gvogel]

It is quite apparent that the Anser worked for the op because he hit it straighter, and with a draw.

I am wondering if the swing weight was quite a bit different for each club.

I am also wondering if the contact point was poor for the 913 - which might have been a shaft issue, or swing weight related.

I believe that adjusting the variables should bring the performance of the two clubs very close.

Thankfully, the op went with the club that worked best right out of the box.

I picked up a 913 D2 9.5* with the S+ shaft in stiff.  I had been playing a 910 D2 with a Motore F1 55R, a combo that worked very well for the summer.  The slightly stiffer shaft actually gave me more centered face contact.  My launch and spin numbers are slightly below optimal on the 913; my smash factor is excellent.  I picked up a few yards.  I'll be adding loft, and also experimenting with a 10.5* head next summer.

With the stiffer shaft, I also have to remind myself to be slower on the backswing and transition, because I tend to get quick with stiffer shafts.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out next summer.

[greenadam21]

Oilman83, on 21 December 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

I20 and Anser beat out the 913 anyday of the week! My trackman numbers were night and day with i20 vs 913.

are your I20 numbers better than the anser ?

[tagermo]

Great thread with good insight, a couple of comments that tend to differ. I don't have the swing speed of most of you 90 to 95 swing speed 58 years old 7 index just returning to golf after 2 months off due to knee surgery. Played most of last year with G20 10.5 loft with Oban devotion regular shaft never missed a fairway but in the quest for a few more yards was fitted in Anser 10.5 with Blur shaft. Have struggled with the Anser in that it tends to balloon (- setting) and missed it right ( my miss has always been left). I can't seem to draw the Anser.

On Monday tried the 913D3 10.5 with Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and great feel and I was able to hit some nice draws on the back nine of our course and seemed to gain a few yards. On Wednesday I demoed the 913D2 9.5 Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and wow even better than the D3 and hit some great high draws.

Last night I read this thread so I said let me try the Anser with some different shafts ( we have a great fitting facility where I can try various shafts) and tried the Blur in stiff the standard stock shaft, Diamana, Oban and a Talamonti. Still couldn't hit a draw so took it to the course with the 913D2 with Talamonti 55 in Regular and played two balls off each tee and used each driver. I was consistently longer with the 913D2. I wanted to find a fix with the Anser to save me from buying another driver but for me and my swing the 913D2 is a keeper.

[greenadam21]

tagermo, on 25 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Great thread with good insight, a couple of comments that tend to differ. I don't have the swing speed of most of you 90 to 95 swing speed 58 years old 7 index just returning to golf after 2 months off due to knee surgery. Played most of last year with G20 10.5 loft with Oban devotion regular shaft never missed a fairway but in the quest for a few more yards was fitted in Anser 10.5 with Blur shaft. Have struggled with the Anser in that it tends to balloon (- setting) and missed it right ( my miss has always been left). I can't seem to draw the Anser.

On Monday tried the 913D3 10.5 with Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and great feel and I was able to hit some nice draws on the back nine of our course and seemed to gain a few yards. On Wednesday I demoed the 913D2 9.5 Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and wow even better than the D3 and hit some great high draws.

Last night I read this thread so I said let me try the Anser with some different shafts ( we have a great fitting facility where I can try various shafts) and tried the Blur in stiff the standard stock shaft, Diamana, Oban and a Talamonti. Still couldn't hit a draw so took it to the course with the 913D2 with Talamonti 55 in Regular and played two balls off each tee and used each driver. I was consistently longer with the 913D2. I wanted to find a fix with the Anser to save me from buying another driver but for me and my swing the 913D2 is a keeper.

   ballooning the anser is tough to do, relatively anyway, as long as you are squaring the face to the path.  It sounds as though you are having issues doing that with the anser. Could be any number of things but a theory would be that the anser /blur combo club weight is lighter than the d13 combo and you are having a tough time feeling the relationship where your club face is in your swing.I don't know those specs of hand..again I could be way off base there....beyond that I will say that the anser ahina combo that I tried was more difficult to square ...I went an xflex ahina at first.  For myself, i found that I really like a shaft that I feel I can load if I don't feel that I seem to hold off the release and leave it open..i switched shafts to a lighter flex and slight diff torque and all draws now.  having been in your situation if none of the stock ping options work...cut your losses and switch..Your ansers are still selling for good $$ on ebay. and an aftermarket shaft will cost you as much as the Titleist anyway. good luck with your search.

[tagermo]

greenadam21, on 26 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

tagermo, on 25 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Great thread with good insight, a couple of comments that tend to differ. I don't have the swing speed of most of you 90 to 95 swing speed 58 years old 7 index just returning to golf after 2 months off due to knee surgery. Played most of last year with G20 10.5 loft with Oban devotion regular shaft never missed a fairway but in the quest for a few more yards was fitted in Anser 10.5 with Blur shaft. Have struggled with the Anser in that it tends to balloon (- setting) and missed it right ( my miss has always been left). I can't seem to draw the Anser.

On Monday tried the 913D3 10.5 with Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and great feel and I was able to hit some nice draws on the back nine of our course and seemed to gain a few yards. On Wednesday I demoed the 913D2 9.5 Diamana shaft (A1 setting) and wow even better than the D3 and hit some great high draws.

Last night I read this thread so I said let me try the Anser with some different shafts ( we have a great fitting facility where I can try various shafts) and tried the Blur in stiff the standard stock shaft, Diamana, Oban and a Talamonti. Still couldn't hit a draw so took it to the course with the 913D2 with Talamonti 55 in Regular and played two balls off each tee and used each driver. I was consistently longer with the 913D2. I wanted to find a fix with the Anser to save me from buying another driver but for me and my swing the 913D2 is a keeper.

   ballooning the anser is tough to do, relatively anyway, as long as you are squaring the face to the path.  It sounds as though you are having issues doing that with the anser. Could be any number of things but a theory would be that the anser /blur combo club weight is lighter than the d13 combo and you are having a tough time feeling the relationship where your club face is in your swing.I don't know those specs of hand..again I could be way off base there....beyond that I will say that the anser ahina combo that I tried was more difficult to square ...I went an xflex ahina at first.  For myself, i found that I really like a shaft that I feel I can load if I don't feel that I seem to hold off the release and leave it open..i switched shafts to a lighter flex and slight diff torque and all draws now.  having been in your situation if none of the stock ping options work...cut your losses and switch..Your ansers are still selling for good $$ on ebay. and an aftermarket shaft will cost you as much as the Titleist anyway. good luck with your search.

Thanks, I am going to make the switch.

[portman]

I went and tried a number of drivers yesterday thinking I may pick one up to be a "backup" to my 910D3 with RIP 60 shaft. I had these in mind and I tried them all in their stock shafts in 9.5 and 10.5 lofts: i20, Anser and 913D3. The only exception was Anser with Blur shaft. For some reason they couldn't find that for me to try.
Frankly speaking, if I didn't have my 910D3 now, I would have bought the Anser with Ahina shaft at 10.5 loft. Like many I went in wanting to leave with a 913D3 but I was a bit disappointed. I am going to find a shop around here that has the Blur shaft for Anser and try it out. Barring any last minute good surprises, I may have to hold on to my current driver longer. But who knows, may be I will pull the trigger and grab an Anser driver and play with it.
One thing I heard yesterday from the shop was that if I usually hit 9.5, I need to hit a 10.5 with Anser due to lower spin rate. I told them I want a lower ball flight so they told me to try 10.5. I did try both 9.5 and 10.5 and 10.5 gave me the flight I like. And I have to agree with some posters before that Anser likes to go to the right and I had to add a bit of effort to get it to draw.

[GooseHook]

Last weekend I had a chance to hit my Anser on Trackman.  Eagle1997 was nice enough to buy me lunch and show me around clubgolf in Gaithersburg, MD!  These shots were with range balls, but an apples to apples comparison shows that the Anser is about 400rpm lower than my G20.  The two bottom photos are my "best ball" shots with the G20 setup, for comparison.  I had a full stomach and a few G&T's in me so I wanted to use my energy on the Anser

Still early season swing, but I want to work this year to level out my AoA a bit, and I'll probably switch over to the B-330 instead of my usual B-330S.

Edited by GooseHook, 27 January 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Hookasaurus Rex]

Beast...  What shaft do you have in there?

[GooseHook]

Hookasaurus Rex, on 27 January 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Beast...  What shaft do you have in there?

UST VTS Silver.  It's been a favorite of mine since last season, too damn good to switch!

[Antnee94]

Marks23, on 12 November 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm glad to see that I was not the only one to experience relatively high spin numbers with the 913D. Even with the 913 D3 I could never get under 3600 rpms so I felt like I was leaving way too many yards on the table.  Launch was in the 14-15* area but not much run out.  All of this testing was done indoors at Golf Galaxy.

I'm the same. I only have the GG monitor to go off. The 913 D2 & D3 for me has been between 3200-3600 with a 12 degree launch. My next step is to test the Anser and the Nike Covert. I'm hoping to get the spin numbers down. I set up for a fade and the GG simulator was telling me I had a slight fade. I just need time to get fitted by the right people. Right now I'm just looking at the feel. I think I'll have one of these new drivers by the time the season starts. Right now I play the 910 D2.

Edited by Antnee94, 30 January 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[indygolfman]

UPDATE:  I've played 3 rounds yet this year and I can say that the Anser is definitely the driver for me.  The LM numbers from this winter have definitely translated to the course.  Two things are going really well:  I'm hitting more fairways than normal.  And I'm hitting it about 10-15 yards further than my RHT.  This is leaving me with at least a club less in on most holes.  So, I'm scoring better as well.

All in all, I'm very excited about this year!

If I could just get the putter dialed in......(4 three-putts today, YUK)

Edited by indygolfman, 07 April 2013 - 04:42 PM.

[Coheed]

I was in the sim today having a little fun with my new 913 D3 7.5* w/GD AD DI 6s tipped 1.25".
Was getting average 5-6* LA and 2400 spin. I will omit the SS and distances as they are unimportant. Just as the OP is happy with his driver; I am ecstatic with my new driver!!!

[indygolfman]

Coheed, on 07 April 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

I was in the sim today having a little fun with my new 913 D3 7.5* w/GD AD DI 6s tipped 1.25".
Was getting average 5-6* LA and 2400 spin. I will omit the SS and distances as they are unimportant. Just as the OP is happy with his driver; I am ecstatic with my new driver!!!

Dang!  Those had to be some line drives!

[Coheed]

indygolfman, on 07 April 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Coheed, on 07 April 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

I was in the sim today having a little fun with my new 913 D3 7.5* w/GD AD DI 6s tipped 1.25".
Was getting average 5-6* LA and 2400 spin. I will omit the SS and distances as they are unimportant. Just as the OP is happy with his driver; I am ecstatic with my new driver!!!

Dang!  Those had to be some line drives!

Ya they started off pretty low but apexed at a decent height (can't remember exactly the number).
Higher SS is the only way these numbers work! And the feel of this combo is awesome...love it. Mind you I have to loft set to 8.25*.