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Steel vs Graphite Shafts in Irons


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#31 Norboo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

For those uneducated members on the forum, here is a little details of phone fitting with Joe Kwok.

He will give you a questionnaire and you have to visit your local place that has a good launch monitor.   You will than, give Joe all the data and you interview over the phone.  Cost is $100.

Here is a list of some of the questions.
http://www.golfwrx.c...icking-a-shaft/

General questionnaire ( A must for all fitting) :

How often you play in a month?
How often you practice in a month?
How consistent do you think your swing are in a scale 1-10 ( 10 being the best )? It won't matter good or bad consistency.
What is your handicap now? What handicap system are they/you using?
What is your strength on your game? Driver? Iron? Wedge? or putter?

Driver fitting questionnaire:

1. What is the club existing set up? ( loft, shaft, flex, swing weight, length, etc ) As detail as possible please.
2. What type of swinger are you ( smooth or quick tempo swinger )? Loading factor on your swing? Heavy or light loader?
3. On a scale 1-10 how consistent is your swing? where is your striking ability?
4. What is the the problem w/ the existing set up?
5. Have you ever had a launch monitor session before? What brand of LM (flightscope LM is one of my best recommendation)? ( swing speed, launch angle, ball speed, spin rate, Swing path,Attack angle, side spins, etc?) These numbers has to come from the existing club or the club that you are trying to fix or buy. IMPORTANT & A MUST! DO NOT POST IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COMPLETE LM DATA.
6. What are you trying to change or achieve on your new set up?
7. What is your shots tendency on mistakes when you are not playing so good? Do you have any problem missing a shots on the face of the club? where?
8. What is your shots tendency (ball flight) that you like when you are playing good?
9. If you have to pick, what ball flight is more comfortable for you to hit...High or low? Draw or Fade?
10. What type of course condition you are playing most? Where are you from?
11. Body build and postures? height? etc.
12. What is your glove size? What is the length of your wrist to longest fingers and length of your longest finger? (Left for RH golfer and vice versa for LH golfer)
13. If you have to be honest, who your swing look like on PGA tour? at least who do you like it to be?
14. etc. The more the better it become.

Iron fitting Questionnaire:

1. Have you had a dynamic fitting before? lie angle? Loft?
2. What is the existing set up specs and shaft, etc? Detail please!
3. Have you ever been on a launch monitor session? what are the numbers (detail)? what brand of machine?DO NOT POST IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COMPLETE LM DATA.
4. What is your existing complain on your current set up?
5. What do you want to see it change/what is the problem?
6. What do you prefer to see on your ball flight? higher or lower? draw or fade?
7. What is your ball flight tendency on your good golfing day?
8. Which side is your mistake tendency? left or right side? any problem catching the sweet spot? where?
9. Do you consider yourself a High ball hitter or low ball hitter?
10. If you have to pick, what ball flight is more comfortable for you to hit...High or low? Draw or Fade?
11. How far you hit a 5 iron on a good no wind day? 5 iron swing speed ( carry distance )?
12. What is you measurement on Knuckle to floor with shoes on? LH for RH player vice versa on LH players
13. What is your measurement on wrist to floor with shoes on? LH for RH player vice versa on LH players
14. What is your glove size? What is the length of your wrist to longest fingers and length of your longest finger? (Left for RH golfer and vice versa for LH golfer)
15. How tall are you?
16. Are you a deep/medium or shallow divot taker?
17. Who do you think your swing look like compare to PGA Tour players?
18. Smooth , medium or quick tempo swing style? How is your shaft loading factor on your down swing?

Wedge Fitting Questionnaire:


1. Have you had a dynamic fitting before? lie angle? Loft? on 6 iron
2. What is the existing set up specs and shaft, etc? Detail please!
3. What is your existing complain on your current set up?
4. What do you want to see it change/what is the problem?
5. What is you measurement on Knuckle to floor with shoes on? LH for RH player vice versa on LH players
6. What is your measurement on wrist to floor with shoes on? LH for RH player vice versa on LH players
7. What is your glove size? What is the length of your wrist to longest fingers and length of your longest finger? (Left for RH golfer and vice versa for LH 8. How tall are you?
9. Are you a deep/medium or shallow divot taker? Short or long divot? trapper, driver or slider?
10. Do you do a lot of low pinch/trap spinner shots?
11. Do you a lot of flop shots? What club you use on these shots?
12. Do you adjust face angle or ball position on your shots, especially of full shots?
13. Do you consider very creative on your shots around the green or trying to be as simple as possible on your shots?
14, What is your striking ability scale 1 - 10?
15. Any particular technique or method you like to tell me on your wedge game?
16. Tell me about your course turf condition, design, average green speed, Green size and undulation, etc?
17. Which PGA player that you like on their wedge play style?


Bare in mind, No shaft is better than the one fit your swing profile...No matter what the cost is!!!


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#32 Norboo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

View PostBrianL99, on 11 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

View PostNorboo, on 11 November 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Do you know what goes into phone fitting with Joe Kwok?   If not, you shouldn’t knock it till you have some basic information before making ignorant comments.  As they say, ignorance is bless.


Do you mean "bliss" ?

& a "phone fitting" is probably a lot like phone sex ...  if you don't have any other choice, it's probably better than nothing.  Whatever floats your boat.


Hey, what do I know? I only been building clubs for 12 years and tried just about every shaft on the market personally. Where does your knowledge come from?  From having phone sex?

Edited by Norboo, 13 November 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#33 Norboo

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

View Posttimeless, on 12 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

"That post is fairly close to the epitome of uninformed nonsense.

A "phone fitting"? Perhaps the O.P. should just get a dart board and pick a shaft."



LMAO.  well said.

At first, I laughed at that idea as well.  I head so many good things about phone fitting with Joe Kwok; I did a little research and e-mailed him to get all the details on what goes into phone fitting.  After my initial research, I was pleasantly surprised and would recommend the phone fitting.

#34 alibab2001

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

I recently made the switch to xcalibur graphite shafts in my irons (from Nippon sp blues). I couldn't be happier. Improved ball flight (higher flatter launch), distance ( at least a full club longer) and dispersion (the ball just doesn't move as much laterally).
Obviously the lighter overall weight and shock absorption are additional benefits.....for me at least.



#35 BrianL99

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostNorboo, on 13 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:


...  I head so many good things about phone ... with Joe Kwok  ... get all the details on what goes into phone ... pleasantly surprised and would recommend the phone ...



#36 rodge

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 12 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

IMO - the only reasons to move to graphite iron shafts are physical issues, and hope for more distance.   Unless the move is to costly "tour" weight graphite, dispersion is going to worsen.

I realize that this is your opinion, and that's fine, but my experience was the opposite.  I played 120+ gram steel for 15 years, and this year I changed to Aerotech i95's.  They are every bit as accurate as anything I've played, if not even more so.  And I am playing them in the same heads that I played with steel (r9 B's) so I did a fair comparison.

#37 dunn

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

Get the new matrix program graphite shafts for irons

I demoed a mp64 head in multiple shafts..... Px, pxi,Nippon , kbs, dg and then I hit program 130 shaft ..... Absolutely money and numbers were the best out of all...... I dint really Care about monitor numbers bit dispersion and feel were far and above the best..... They have 95 gram and 105 or 110 shaft too..........

Pricey bit very nice shaft..... If I was going graphite I would go program


Best graphite shaft I've hit

#38 dunn

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:03 AM

And graphite has come along way.......

I font believe steel is better in accuracy and dispersion anymore...... Was reading quite a bit of testing they have done recently and good graphite shafts give up nothing to steel


And yeah it's funny the ones bashing graphite have a 200-300 dollar graphite shaft in their woods bit would no way put them in their irons....... Makes sense.... Lol

Graphite will over take steel shafts in next ten years

#39 Norboo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

View Postdunn, on 14 November 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

And graphite has come along way.......

I font believe steel is better in accuracy and dispersion anymore...... Was reading quite a bit of testing they have done recently and good graphite shafts give up nothing to steel


And yeah it's funny the ones bashing graphite have a 200-300 dollar graphite shaft in their woods bit would no way put them in their irons....... Makes sense.... Lol

Graphite will over take steel shafts in next ten years

That’s what they said ten years ago.   LOL

Drivers are for distance and irons are more for accuracy and distance control.  Less deviation in torque, less dispersion ratio.

I am in no way knocking graphite but it does take time to get used to.  Going from 130g shaft down to 100g takes work to get used to and going down to 65g shaft will take much more work.

#40 Norboo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:54 AM

Here is a shaft I haven't tried yet.  Looks very nice.


Proto UST “Recoil” Graphite Irons Shafts
http://www.golfwrx.c...potted-on-tour/

Short review.
http://www.golfwrx.c...aft-over-steel/


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#41 Stuart G.

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

I'd like to try them too - although there's no way I could bring myself to pay the bill for them.

#42 Terp

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:59 AM

View Postgolftejas, on 12 November 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

I played Ping G2s with 75g graphite shafts for many years.  This year I bought some new G20s and got the CFS R shafts at 99g - - I had no problem transitioning shafts, so an hour or two at the range is not that far fetched.  Unfortunately, after playing steel for the year I've got some thumb and elbow pain that wasn't there with graphite - - so I'm going back to graphite. I did notice some improvement in dispersion for the steel CFS relative to the old Ping G2 made-for graphites at 75g (mainly fewer hooks) - - this time I'm getting a bit heavier graphite and hoping that the recent improvements in graphite shafts for irons helps maintain the good dispersion - - we'll see.

I played the Ping G2s with the stock regular graphite shaft after having surgery on the right elbow.  Maybe it was bad luck, but I broke 4 shafts at the hosel, which Ping replaced.  Strange thing was 2 of the shafts broke on par 3 tee shots, 1 on a wedge approach shot, and 1 at the driving range.  I then switched to X22s with steel shafts and have played them a few years.  This year I developed tendonitis in the left elbow and had to give up playing for a while (cortisone, rehab).  I went back to the Ping G2s (never sold them) and have played well with them the last two months.

I am contemplating new irons for 2013 and have to say the JPX-825s are at the top of the list, though I am going to wait until the G25s come out.  I have hit the 825s in the Nippon 950 shaft and liked it, but am thinking that graphite is where I need to be.  Has anyone played the any of the Mizuno graphite shaft offerings  in the 825s or any of the Ping graphite iron shafts?  Or should I look at the steel-fibers, etc.?

#43 Stuart G.

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:48 AM

View PostTerp, on 17 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:


I played the Ping G2s with the stock regular graphite shaft after having surgery on the right elbow.  Maybe it was bad luck, but I broke 4 shafts at the hosel, which Ping replaced.  Strange thing was 2 of the shafts broke on par 3 tee shots, 1 on a wedge approach shot, and 1 at the driving range.  I then switched to X22s with steel shafts and have played them a few years.  This year I developed tendonitis in the left elbow and had to give up playing for a while (cortisone, rehab).  I went back to the Ping G2s (never sold them) and have played well with them the last two months.

I am contemplating new irons for 2013 and have to say the JPX-825s are at the top of the list, though I am going to wait until the G25s come out.  I have hit the 825s in the Nippon 950 shaft and liked it, but am thinking that graphite is where I need to be.  Has anyone played the any of the Mizuno graphite shaft offerings  in the 825s or any of the Ping graphite iron shafts?  Or should I look at the steel-fibers, etc.?

I had the same problems with the tfc100's in my i5's.  I lost count of how many I had to have replaced.  Finally got fed up and reshafted them with the aldila vs-proto 100's.   I'd stay away from any ping graphite iron shaft.

For Mizuno - looks like they offer custom option choices in the project-x graphite irons shaft and the Matrix Program 130's for heavier weight graphite.  I haven't tried them myself but I remember some reviews about the project-x's had them good performers but maybe a little harsher feeling than the Steelfibers and aldila's.

#44 seasterl

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:08 AM

I've been having pain in the back of my right hand and wrist area toward the end of a round.  (I'm right-handed.). I think it may be from carpal-tunnel syndrome or something from having to sit at a computer at work. Anyway, I play X100 with Sensicore inserts.  Has anyone experienced this type of pain and found relief after switching to graphite?

#45 BrianL99

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:40 AM

Graphite shafts will usually eliminate elbow & wrist pain, associated with the golf swing ... they are much smoother than any steel shafts, in my opinion.


#46 MizzyMan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

They've been saying that graphite will replace steel in iron shafts for about 15 years now. I don't know if it EVER will, at least for most players. Older, injured players maybe.

People comparing graphite in drivers vs. irons are missing the point. Drivers are for distance mostly and most will give up a few yards of dispersement for 10-20 yards of distance. Who would give up ANY accuracy for a few yards distance with irons? No one I know.

#47 BrianL99

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:27 AM

View PostMizzyMan, on 18 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

They've been saying that graphite will replace steel in iron shafts for about 15 years now. I don't know if it EVER will, at least for most players. Older, injured players maybe.

People comparing graphite in drivers vs. irons are missing the point. Drivers are for distance mostly and most will give up a few yards of dispersement for 10-20 yards of distance. Who would give up ANY accuracy for a few yards distance with irons? No one I know.

Let's see about the "older, injured players":

" In addition to their second-straight Ryder Cup appearance (2 players, Snedeker & Kuchar), SteelFiber shafts won the 2012 FedEx Cup title, the TOUR Championship, The Players Championship and the Farmers Insurance Open and collected 21 Top 10 finishes on the PGA and Champions Tours. Last year, two of the Top Eight players in the final FedExCup standings played SteelFiber shafts and SteelFiber delivered two Top Three finishes in the PGA TOUR PlayOffs."

http://www.newson6.c...s-richest-title

Anyone who believes that Graphite Shafts can't be as accurate as steel shafts, probably still believes the world is flat & OJ was innocent.  It's simple nonsense from the uninformed.

#48 MizzyMan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

It's not nonsense a

View PostBrianL99, on 18 November 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

View PostMizzyMan, on 18 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

They've been saying that graphite will replace steel in iron shafts for about 15 years now. I don't know if it EVER will, at least for most players. Older, injured players maybe.

People comparing graphite in drivers vs. irons are missing the point. Drivers are for distance mostly and most will give up a few yards of dispersement for 10-20 yards of distance. Who would give up ANY accuracy for a few yards distance with irons? No one I know.

Let's see about the "older, injured players":

" In addition to their second-straight Ryder Cup appearance (2 players, Snedeker & Kuchar), SteelFiber shafts won the 2012 FedEx Cup title, the TOUR Championship, The Players Championship and the Farmers Insurance Open and collected 21 Top 10 finishes on the PGA and Champions Tours. Last year, two of the Top Eight players in the final FedExCup standings played SteelFiber shafts and SteelFiber delivered two Top Three finishes in the PGA TOUR PlayOffs."

http://www.newson6.c...s-richest-title

Anyone who believes that Graphite Shafts can't be as accurate as steel shafts, probably still believes the world is flat & OJ was innocent.  It's simple nonsense from the uninformed.

It's not nonsense and I'm not misinformed. SteelFiber says "a new category of shaft that delivers the power of graphite combined with the stability of steel". Did you catch that? "the stability of steel". Because it has steel in it! Clearly you have some sort of agenda as you feel the need to capitalize Graphite Shafts. Get your sh!t straight before you start insulting people in public.

#49 BrianL99

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostMizzyMan, on 19 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:


It's not nonsense and I'm not misinformed. SteelFiber says "a new category of shaft that delivers the power of graphite combined with the stability of steel". Did you catch that? "the stability of steel". Because it has steel in it! Clearly you have some sort of agenda as you feel the need to capitalize Graphite Shafts. Get your sh!t straight before you start insulting people in public.

If folks stopped make dumb, ignorant statements in public, they wouldn't have to worry about being insulted in public and being embarrassed by their ignorance.

#50 MizzyMan

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

So a few players using graphite shafts wrapped in steel is your argument for the greatness of graphite shafts and you still just want to hurl insults around? OK, you win the insulting prize. Here's your cookies and milk.


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#51 Norboo

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:11 PM

View PostBrianL99, on 19 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

If folks stopped make dumb, ignorant statements in public, they wouldn't have to worry about being insulted in public and being embarrassed by their ignorance.

Hard facing yourself in the mirror huh?

Edited by Norboo, 19 November 2012 - 07:12 PM.


#52 dunn

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:02 AM

View PostNorboo, on 14 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

View Postdunn, on 14 November 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

And graphite has come along way.......

I font believe steel is better in accuracy and dispersion anymore...... Was reading quite a bit of testing they have done recently and good graphite shafts give up nothing to steel



And yeah it's funny the ones bashing graphite have a 200-300 dollar graphite shaft in their woods bit would no way put them in their irons....... Makes sense.... Lol



Graphite will over take steel shafts in next ten years

Thatís what they said ten years ago.   LOL


Drivers are for distance and irons are more for accuracy and distance control.  Less deviation in torque, less dispersion ratio.

I am in no way knocking graphite but it does take time to get used to.  
Going from 130g shaft down to 100g takes work to get used to and going down to 65g shaft will take much more work.

Oh no no no, graphite has come along way from 10 yrs ago....... They already have 130 g graphite........ They some phenomenal shafts out there, graphite is more versatile, they can make it anyway they want.....

The performance is already there but cost is a big issue.......program 130 by matrix is a top shaft right now and it's like $92 ea. !!!!!!...

#53 Norboo

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

View Postdunn, on 20 November 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

View PostNorboo, on 14 November 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

View Postdunn, on 14 November 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

And graphite has come along way.......

I font believe steel is better in accuracy and dispersion anymore...... Was reading quite a bit of testing they have done recently and good graphite shafts give up nothing to steel



And yeah it's funny the ones bashing graphite have a 200-300 dollar graphite shaft in their woods bit would no way put them in their irons....... Makes sense.... Lol



Graphite will over take steel shafts in next ten years

That's what they said ten years ago.   LOL


Drivers are for distance and irons are more for accuracy and distance control.  Less deviation in torque, less dispersion ratio.

I am in no way knocking graphite but it does take time to get used to.  
Going from 130g shaft down to 100g takes work to get used to and going down to 65g shaft will take much more work.

Oh no no no, graphite has come along way from 10 yrs ago....... They already have 130 g graphite........ They some phenomenal shafts out there, graphite is more versatile, they can make it anyway they want.....

The performance is already there but cost is a big issue.......program 130 by matrix is a top shaft right now and it's like $92 ea. !!!!!!...

I heard some good things about Matrix Ozik Program.  I don’t doubt they are great shafts, but you have to wonder why pro’s on tour doesn’t play them.  Whether steel or graphite, it doesn’t cost them anything to play them.  So, why aren’t they playing them?  In their level, even minor advantage is major gain.  

In 10 years’ time, I doubt graphite will come down that much in price.  I would imagine steel shaft technology will advance further and get smoother over time as well graphite.   Only time will tell.  Who knows, you might be posting in 10 years, “in your face Norboo, I told you graphite will take over.  Till I see the pro’s switching, you will be hard pressed to convince me and many golfers out here.

Edited by Norboo, 20 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.


#54 mogc60

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:38 AM

View PostMizzyMan, on 18 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

They've been saying that graphite will replace steel in iron shafts for about 15 years now. I don't know if it EVER will, at least for most players. Older, injured players maybe.

People comparing graphite in drivers vs. irons are missing the point. Drivers are for distance mostly and most will give up a few yards of dispersement for 10-20 yards of distance. Who would give up ANY accuracy for a few yards distance with irons? No one I know.
I've been a pretty decent player for a long time and I have used just about every heavy steel shaft that has came out the last 20 years.  About a year ago I switched to the Aerotech i110 because of some wrist and thumb pain, and they have been every bit as consistent and accurate as any of the steel shafts that I have ever used.  I haven't gained one yard in distance and my distance control is better than ever.  So I guess in my case, I haven't given up anything except for some pain.  Like anything else, if you get the correct weight and flex, your results should be pretty good.  P.S. I have no agenda.

#55 MizzyMan

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

Glad you're enjoying the shafts. But if they can find a way to produce this same shaft without the "steel fiber" that wraps around it to give it stability, it's not really the kind of "graphite" shaft I was referring to.


#56 mogc60

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:54 AM

View PostNorboo, on 14 November 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Here is a shaft I haven't tried yet.  Looks very nice.


Proto UST “Recoil” Graphite Irons Shafts
http://www.golfwrx.c...potted-on-tour/

Short review.
http://www.golfwrx.c...aft-over-steel/


Posted Image
Here they are.

#57 Matt Falcon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:42 AM

I've tried graphite shafts in my irons a couple of different times but always went back to steel.

#58 Stuart G.

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:15 AM

View PostMatt Falcon, on 21 November 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

I've tried graphite shafts in my irons a couple of different times but always went back to steel.

What shafts did you try?   If you limited your selection to irons with stock, off-the-shelf, shafts.  I'm not surprised.

#59 fore

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

I'll wade in here with some basic specs to consider. Compared to the TT DG,  the Aerotech shafts have a lower bend point are less tip firm.  For most swings that results in a higher launch angle. The Aerotech 95's being a little firmer than the 80's.

I hope not to need (for physical reasons) to change to graphite shafts. Though I haven't tried them all of course, the expense to achieve the same paying characteristics as the DG seems high to me.

#60 Pro McNix

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:35 PM

I have installed a lot of Aerotech Steelfiber shafts after fittings and they are my number 1 shaft based on testing with thousands of test head and test shaft combinations. (estimate at least 150+ iron shafts and 50+ 5 iron designs)Test shafts include TT, KBS, NIPPON, Rifle, PX, FST, Aldila, Matrix, SK Fiber, UST, Aerotech, Alpha, Integra, and others. Nearly all flexes and weights, etc.

For several years now I've had great success with Aerotech Steelfibers. I think most of my fittings use i95 but some are in i80 and i70 and a few in i110 and i125. As with any shaft the weight of the shaft is the major fitting factor followed by the flex characteristics. As in any shaft fitting it depends on the particular golfer which shaft works best for their particular swing characteristics.

In all cases with Aerotech fitting dispersion was dramatically improved.
In all cases with Aerotech fitting distance was improved.
In all cases with Aerotech fitting consistency was improved.

I like to think this is because they were fitted for weight and flex as well as length, proper grip and grip size, best SW or MOI, etc. and not just the shaft. I also believe the building technique and tolerances also helped a good bit.

Great line about phone fitting and phone sex, but honestly I've had some success in long distance fitting but it takes a long time and more than just talk. To really help a golfer long distance the golfer needs to have access to a launch monitor and clubs of various flexes and weights to test and give feedback. A good bit of experimenting needs to happen and be reported on to help nail down various fitting parameters. The golfer also needs a roll of lead tape to apply to change head weight and retest with various clubs. You have to keep in mind that regardless of the access and the feedback it's still an educated guess and not a real fitting where the fitter can see and react to different changes in the club and measure it accurately. The fitting is only as good as the feedback even then. At the end of the day, it is probably better than no fitting at all, if you have the right guy helping.

JMHO FWIW


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