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My swing and early extension help/fix?


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#61 DaveLeeNC

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:23 PM

View Postthesponge, on 19 November 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

I meant you don't see a difference OR don't find it useful? One or the other.

I don't sense a difference.

dave

ps. We must be talking about different things, or the question would not have been asked.


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#62 HappyGolf

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

View Postthesponge, on 19 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Ernie is far from goat humping. Pretty sure you can't win a major and goat hump.

No problem.... I think he has some EE going on in his swing as he backs out of the shot (arching the back of his shoulders)

(put your cursor on the front badge of his cap)



In this one put your cursor over the back of his neck....


To me that's backing out of the shot or 'humping the goat', it might not be much but it's there, he doesn't get his right shoulder down and out enough and 'chucks' the club down the line.... in MY opinion. No big deal.

I think you can win a major with LOTS of stuff going on in your swing.... even Arnie won a few!

Note: I would say his 2012 swing looks a fraction better than his old one.

Edited by HappyGolf, 19 November 2012 - 08:30 PM.


#63 JPGolf FL

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostHappyGolf, on 19 November 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

View Postthesponge, on 19 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Ernie is far from goat humping. Pretty sure you can't win a major and goat hump.

No problem.... I think he has some EE going on in his swing as he backs out of the shot (arching the back of his shoulders)

(put your cursor on the front badge of his cap)



In this one put your cursor over the back of his neck....


To me that's backing out of the shot or 'humping the goat', it might not be much but it's there, he doesn't get his right shoulder down and out enough and 'chucks' the club down the line.... in MY opinion. No big deal.

I think you can win a major with LOTS of stuff going on in your swing.... even Arnie won a few!

Note: I would say his 2012 swing looks a fraction better than his old one.

I guess it's all in your definition of humping the goat. To me humping the goat is the typical ametur move where the hips and pelvis lunge toward the ball. Not everyone will have a swing like mahan where the head stays perfectly still.
And arnie had one o the best moves through impact of all time, but his follow through was pretty nasty :lol:

#64 HappyGolf

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

Hey no problem Sponge ....I agree that there's worse out there... after all it is the Big Easy I'm dissing here LOLOLOL :-)



What did you make of the two vids I posted as fixes for EE?

Edited by HappyGolf, 19 November 2012 - 08:47 PM.


#65 Hoganstriker

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

Golf is a thinking mans game.  
You don't just take the club back and fire it at the ball hard.
I think you will find if you reread my posts you will see the root cause of ee.
If it were simple to stop people wouldn't have such trouble.
Someone asked about center of gravity.
In transition we want the hands very slow and the intention is inwards towards the center of our body if that makes sense.
Anyways just thought I would throw some truth out there.
Good luck guys!


#66 JPGolf FL

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:40 PM

View PostHappyGolf, on 19 November 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Hey no problem Sponge ....I agree that there's worse out there... after all it is the Big Easy I'm dissing here LOLOLOL :-)



What did you make of the two vids I posted as fixes for EE?

Didn't watch the breed one but the other was a good drill. It is basically just monte's drill with added emphasis on turning the shoulders along with the hips. If you stay in posture an turn the hips, the right hip will lower and take the right ahoulder with it. Definitely a good drill.

#67 JPGolf FL

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostHoganstriker, on 19 November 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Golf is a thinking mans game.  
You don't just take the club back and fire it at the ball hard.
I think you will find if you reread my posts you will see the root cause of ee.
If it were simple to stop people wouldn't have such trouble.
Someone asked about center of gravity.
In transition we want the hands very slow and the intention is inwards towards the center of our body if that makes sense.
Anyways just thought I would throw some truth out there.
Good luck guys!

Agreed, step one, don't hit at the ball(hit from the top). Step two, understand how the hips should work. Step two is impossible without step one.

#68 Hoganstriker

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

I think most amateurs would be best off forgetting their hips and just intending them to remain in place.
They will move (balance) fine with no thought.  The body will always balance and if you consciously takeover as an amateur you will destroy that.
IMO its a hands game.

#69 Petter Player

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:18 AM

The waist should work like this:

Posted Image or Posted Image

Sorry, for the wrong tilt, could not turn the animation.

View PostHoganstriker, on 19 November 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I think most amateurs would be best off forgetting their hips and just intending them to remain in place.
They will move (balance) fine with no thought.  The body will always balance and if you consciously takeover as an amateur you will destroy that.
IMO its a hands game.

I did not quite follow this, since I believe swing is a leg-driven power distribution through your body and limbs to accelerate the clubhead as much as possible.

Edited by Petter Player, 20 November 2012 - 03:42 AM.


#70 Hoganstriker

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:57 AM

I think its best to focus attention on the hands and swing balanced from a stable base.
once you're in the seventies you can enhance it with a bit of lower body work but balance comes first in my view.
I think most players hit poorly when their mind is far from their hands.
If you throw a ball do you think of the ball in your hand or your hips?
Lower body works on autopilot all the time unless we interfere and screw it up.


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#71 JPGolf FL

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

View PostHoganstriker, on 20 November 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I think its best to focus attention on the hands and swing balanced from a stable base.
once you're in the seventies you can enhance it with a bit of lower body work but balance comes first in my view.
I think most players hit poorly when their mind is far from their hands.
If you throw a ball do you think of the ball in your hand or your hips?
Lower body works on autopilot all the time unless we interfere and screw it up.
When you throw a ball you don't think about your hips OR the ball in your hand. You focus on the target and throw the ball. I pitched in college and trust me, you don't want to think about the ball in your hand. The central nervous system should be left alone to do all of the "thinking".

#72 Petter Player

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:04 AM

View Posttommykrebs, on 18 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

I always knew that the key is in the transition. Countless times I heard shift your hip towards the target, squash a bug under the left heel and drop the club into the slot. But if you hit the ball from the top you have no chance to execute a transition. It's impossible. So, I worked a couple years on the effects (EE, OTT, steep plane, hip stall, armsy swing, disconnection, being stuck, bad pivot, left wrist break down etc.) and not the cause (hit impuls).

Well said, the problem of early extension and early release derive from too fast acceleration from the transition. The fundamental to hit it far - and straight is in physics. Since an object can accelerate only, when it is influenced by a force, the only way to have maximum acceleration at impact is to apply force to the club from a fraction before impact till a bit after impact, the rest of the swing is decelerating the fast moving parts in a safe way.

However, if you try to master that minor distance I just mentioned, you'll ruin the accelerating and consistency. Therefore my swing key is to speed the pivot slow from the top and after you've dropped the club to slot turn as furiously as possible through the ball into finishing position.

If you have already put in all you got right at the top of your back swing, how on Earth could you accelerate through impact?

To my experience the braking front wrist in the follow through is a tell-tail of something, that has happened few fractions earlier on the release. If you keep that front wrist flat or at least straight througout the swing, it'l hold the club back longer. Going to the finishing position with your front wrist straight has helped me a lot on the issue. Check how Hogan did it in short iron shots. The club head never goes past your hands, when observing from the motion point of view, not a one-eyed video.

#73 JPGolf FL

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:02 AM

View PostPetter Player, on 21 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

View Posttommykrebs, on 18 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

I always knew that the key is in the transition. Countless times I heard shift your hip towards the target, squash a bug under the left heel and drop the club into the slot. But if you hit the ball from the top you have no chance to execute a transition. It's impossible. So, I worked a couple years on the effects (EE, OTT, steep plane, hip stall, armsy swing, disconnection, being stuck, bad pivot, left wrist break down etc.) and not the cause (hit impuls).

Well said, the problem of early extension and early release derive from too fast acceleration from the transition. The fundamental to hit it far - and straight is in physics. Since an object can accelerate only, when it is influenced by a force, the only way to have maximum acceleration at impact is to apply force to the club from a fraction before impact till a bit after impact, the rest of the swing is decelerating the fast moving parts in a safe way.

However, if you try to master that minor distance I just mentioned, you'll ruin the accelerating and consistency. Therefore my swing key is to speed the pivot slow from the top and after you've dropped the club to slot turn as furiously as possible through the ball into finishing position.

If you have already put in all you got right at the top of your back swing, how on Earth could you accelerate through impact?

To my experience the braking front wrist in the follow through is a tell-tail of something, that has happened few fractions earlier on the release. If you keep that front wrist flat or at least straight througout the swing, it'l hold the club back longer. Going to the finishing position with your front wrist straight has helped me a lot on the issue. Check how Hogan did it in short iron shots. The club head never goes past your hands, when observing from the motion point of view, not a one-eyed video.

Very true about the left wrist. Although it really clicked for me when I realized that allowing the right wrist to stay cocked thru impact is a more effective way (for me)to accomplish the same thing.

#74 FairwayGolfUSA.com

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:24 PM

View PostHoganstriker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Your early extension as you call it is just your bodys attempt to balance itself which is automatic and it will always do at all times.
If I push you back you step back without thinking or else you would fall.
If you push something hard you will lean forward.
I think folks have so much problem with this because they are trying to address the effect (early extension) by addressing the hips.
I don't think it has to do with making room nor will butt against chair drill help it.
Early extension is an unavoidable automatic response to the body when force is applied.  The cause for it imo has nothing to do with anything other than your hands.
In transition when you pull the handle down hard or fire the right or both hands hard you create a club motion that creates force going down hard.
The body is automatically responding by pushing the legs up hard.
Its automatic you can't help it.  Its nothing to do with your hips and leg action that action is the bodys automatic balance response which it will always do automatically you cannot stop this.
What you need to do is change the force acting on the body so it will not do that.
ITS TRANSITION DON'T HIT FROM THE TOP!
In transition your hands should move very slowly and deliberately and ALLOW the swing to develop.  You will have faR MORE POWER AND CONTROL IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS SLOW HEAVY MOVE AS THE CLUB CHANGES DIRECTION THE SWING ACCELERATES ITSELF IN THIS FASHION YOU CANNOT STOP IT FROM DOING SO.
iTS SIMPLE the more you fire down from the top the more you will early extend.  
A lot of people fight this issue imo because they don't understand the cause and they are treating the symptom (hips legs)
Its in the hands and mind.
Slow yourself to a 1 mph crawl as the club makes a baby u turn in transition and work the hands inward towards your center of gravity.
Early extension is caused by lack of understanding of the forces you are making when you swing the club its a reaction not an action.
If you can wrap your mind around this simple concept you will find golf is way way easier than you thought.

You have to understand when you hold a club in your hands it is a powerful weapon and using it irresponsibly can have dire consequences like injury.

In transition imagine someone doing Tai Chi or Ju Jitsu.

Its a very slow heavy yet controlled movement-the club is sooo powerful you will be amazed when you learn not to fire as hard as you can from the top.

Golf swing should be a physical pleasure not a grinding workout.

SLOW DOWN AT THE TOP.

That is a great tip that really sparked a very good feel and visual in my mind. This was exactly my thoughts also on EE and actually seen improvements on my very own EE by smoothing out my very aggressive transition. Great Info.

RYAN
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Website: http://www.fairwaygolfusa.com
Email: cs@fairwaygolfusa.com
Phone: 1-877-509-0830

#75 Redjeep83

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:07 PM

View PostFairwayGolfUSA.com, on 04 December 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

View PostHoganstriker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Your early extension as you call it is just your bodys attempt to balance itself which is automatic and it will always do at all times.
If I push you back you step back without thinking or else you would fall.
If you push something hard you will lean forward.
I think folks have so much problem with this because they are trying to address the effect (early extension) by addressing the hips.
I don't think it has to do with making room nor will butt against chair drill help it.
Early extension is an unavoidable automatic response to the body when force is applied.  The cause for it imo has nothing to do with anything other than your hands.
In transition when you pull the handle down hard or fire the right or both hands hard you create a club motion that creates force going down hard.
The body is automatically responding by pushing the legs up hard.
Its automatic you can't help it.  Its nothing to do with your hips and leg action that action is the bodys automatic balance response which it will always do automatically you cannot stop this.
What you need to do is change the force acting on the body so it will not do that.
ITS TRANSITION DON'T HIT FROM THE TOP!
In transition your hands should move very slowly and deliberately and ALLOW the swing to develop.  You will have faR MORE POWER AND CONTROL IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS SLOW HEAVY MOVE AS THE CLUB CHANGES DIRECTION THE SWING ACCELERATES ITSELF IN THIS FASHION YOU CANNOT STOP IT FROM DOING SO.
iTS SIMPLE the more you fire down from the top the more you will early extend.  
A lot of people fight this issue imo because they don't understand the cause and they are treating the symptom (hips legs)
Its in the hands and mind.
Slow yourself to a 1 mph crawl as the club makes a baby u turn in transition and work the hands inward towards your center of gravity.
Early extension is caused by lack of understanding of the forces you are making when you swing the club its a reaction not an action.
If you can wrap your mind around this simple concept you will find golf is way way easier than you thought.

You have to understand when you hold a club in your hands it is a powerful weapon and using it irresponsibly can have dire consequences like injury.

In transition imagine someone doing Tai Chi or Ju Jitsu.

Its a very slow heavy yet controlled movement-the club is sooo powerful you will be amazed when you learn not to fire as hard as you can from the top.

Golf swing should be a physical pleasure not a grinding workout.

SLOW DOWN AT THE TOP.

That is a great tip that really sparked a very good feel and visual in my mind. This was exactly my thoughts also on EE and actually seen improvements on my very own EE by smoothing out my very aggressive transition. Great Info.

RYAN

Its makes sense but really you are just swinging slower, I can make slow swings and not early extend. Have you ever seen how fast pro's are in transition with their hands, its like a flash. I remember watching ryan moore on the range and he was so fast in transition, same with Tiger.


#76 FairwayGolfUSA.com

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostRedjeep83, on 04 December 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

View PostFairwayGolfUSA.com, on 04 December 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

View PostHoganstriker, on 17 November 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Your early extension as you call it is just your bodys attempt to balance itself which is automatic and it will always do at all times.
If I push you back you step back without thinking or else you would fall.
If you push something hard you will lean forward.
I think folks have so much problem with this because they are trying to address the effect (early extension) by addressing the hips.
I don't think it has to do with making room nor will butt against chair drill help it.
Early extension is an unavoidable automatic response to the body when force is applied.  The cause for it imo has nothing to do with anything other than your hands.
In transition when you pull the handle down hard or fire the right or both hands hard you create a club motion that creates force going down hard.
The body is automatically responding by pushing the legs up hard.
Its automatic you can't help it.  Its nothing to do with your hips and leg action that action is the bodys automatic balance response which it will always do automatically you cannot stop this.
What you need to do is change the force acting on the body so it will not do that.
ITS TRANSITION DON'T HIT FROM THE TOP!
In transition your hands should move very slowly and deliberately and ALLOW the swing to develop.  You will have faR MORE POWER AND CONTROL IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS SLOW HEAVY MOVE AS THE CLUB CHANGES DIRECTION THE SWING ACCELERATES ITSELF IN THIS FASHION YOU CANNOT STOP IT FROM DOING SO.
iTS SIMPLE the more you fire down from the top the more you will early extend.  
A lot of people fight this issue imo because they don't understand the cause and they are treating the symptom (hips legs)
Its in the hands and mind.
Slow yourself to a 1 mph crawl as the club makes a baby u turn in transition and work the hands inward towards your center of gravity.
Early extension is caused by lack of understanding of the forces you are making when you swing the club its a reaction not an action.
If you can wrap your mind around this simple concept you will find golf is way way easier than you thought.

You have to understand when you hold a club in your hands it is a powerful weapon and using it irresponsibly can have dire consequences like injury.

In transition imagine someone doing Tai Chi or Ju Jitsu.

Its a very slow heavy yet controlled movement-the club is sooo powerful you will be amazed when you learn not to fire as hard as you can from the top.

Golf swing should be a physical pleasure not a grinding workout.

SLOW DOWN AT THE TOP.

That is a great tip that really sparked a very good feel and visual in my mind. This was exactly my thoughts also on EE and actually seen improvements on my very own EE by smoothing out my very aggressive transition. Great Info.

RYAN

Its makes sense but really you are just swinging slower, I can make slow swings and not early extend. Have you ever seen how fast pro's are in transition with their hands, its like a flash. I remember watching ryan moore on the range and he was so fast in transition, same with Tiger.

I noticed how pro's are VERY quick but it does not look like a jerking motion from the top as they transition, it is more of a smooth change of direction. When you watch Tiger or even Sergio ( which I think has one of the most aggressive transitions ) their swings look smooth/fast not jerky fast/fast IMO if that makes sense. I believe that is the difference.

Chime in your thoughts. Discussion is how we get things accomplished

RYAN
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Website: http://www.fairwaygolfusa.com
Email: cs@fairwaygolfusa.com
Phone: 1-877-509-0830

#77 FairwayGolfUSA.com

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

BTW. Just hit 3 shots focusing on a slight pause at the top and recorded my swing. My normal 6iron avg is 170yds and I just hit 3 6iron shots @ 185yds with an visual improvement on the EE thanks to this post.

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#78 Crunchie1982

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

DaveLeeNC - "
"Chasing good ball contact on the range" is the mortal enemy of progress in your golf swing. It is so easy to drop back to bad habits in order to fix the poor ball contact that is inevitable from a swing change (because you will probably be better at hitting the ball, initially, using the old/bad habits). It is mentally difficult to leave the range after working on something, hitting the ball BADLY, but 'making better moves'. I am reminded of trying to learn to play a difficult piece on piano or guitar. No way would you do anything other than start out REALLY/REALLY slowly. Anything else is impossible. But on the range you just go at it full steam, revert to the old stuff (even though you tell yourself that you are doing the new stuff), and make no progress. The analogy in music is trying to play Flight of the Bumblebee for the 1st time on guitar, and quickly going back to Stairway to Heaven. Then you wonder why you can't play Flight of the Bumblebee (after several hours of playing Stairway to Heaven). Happens on the range all the time (and I am as guilty as anyone)"

Absolutely brilliant post. Great advice.




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