59 replies to this topic

[Pat_Irish]

So with all the debate over the last few years about equipment from long putters to ball, to hybrids  to groves including making courses longer to counter act the advances in equipment, lack of real skill etc, is there a solution ?
To get the debate going I am going to suggest

Max number of clubs to be reduced to 7

so you can hit your 6 iron 200 yards, but can you also hit it 150, can you chip with an 8 iron ? can you play  out of greenside bunkers with it, How would the tour pro handle all of this, would the cream come to the top or would you see the same guys still there, if the number of clubs rule was changed, there would be no litagation necessary, nothing banned, just go play

[Arizonalefty59]

I think everyone should play butter knife blades and putt with an Anser style putter hitting persimmon woods!

[sharkiesj]

Simple. No wooden tee allowed.  Or scale the ball back. The ball goes too far.

[jwrogers]

scale the ball back.
shrink driver head size back to something reasonable.
Make all NFL teams go back to their original city
ready, break!



(I actually like your idea of allowing fewer clubs... interesting, and might encourage walking again.)

[MtlJeff]

I'd rather they mandate blades and 300cc heads then change the ball. They created the issue of distance by "Tiger proofing" courses and requiring it. Now they want to screw the average player for their mistakes

[freddyottawa]

Is reducing the size of the driver head going to make that much difference these days do you think?  Other than the confidence the bigger head can inspire, the distance you hit the ball is still going to be the same. 3 woods are hitting the same limits now as what drivers hit as far as COR goes a few years ago, which are becoming small headed drivers in many ways.

Edited by freddyottawa, 07 November 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[MtlJeff]

freddyottawa, on 07 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Is reducing the size of the driver head going to make that much difference these days do you think?  Other than the confidence the bigger head can inspire, the distance you hit the ball is still going to be the same. You only have to look at modern day 3 woods for that.

yes i agree for good players, but it makes driving tougher for the less skilled. Some people (not me) argue that golf is "too easy" now

[freddyottawa]

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

freddyottawa, on 07 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Is reducing the size of the driver head going to make that much difference these days do you think?  Other than the confidence the bigger head can inspire, the distance you hit the ball is still going to be the same. You only have to look at modern day 3 woods for that.

yes i agree for good players, but it makes driving tougher for the less skilled. Some people (not me) argue that golf is "too easy" now

you won't hear that argument from me either.

I totally agree with what you said in your initial post though. They would be totally screwing the average guy with drastic changes to such things as the ball.

I don't want to see to many things scaled back or changed as far as equipment goes personally. Innovation and new technologies is what drives pretty much any industry and golf is no exception. There are already enough limits now, most of which are already pushed pushed as far as they can go. Scaling things back is not really feasible.

Edited by freddyottawa, 07 November 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[MadGolfer76]

I would love to roll things back a couple decades.

Blades, spinny ball, steel shafts, but maybe with a modern twist. You know, keep the lightweight steel as an option for fairways and drivers, limit the iron lofts to an industry standard (48-50 degrees for pw, no more than 22 for a 3i), reduce the size of the driver head to 983K proportions at least (don't care either way about COR), get rid of hybrids, reign in wedge lofts to 56-58 or so. Keep all the cool grip options. Keep the different putter head shapes but kill the long putter. Limit the craziness of iron designs to like an Mp/GI/Eye2 style at the most.

My bet is I would score the same. Hmm...

[Tincup91]

I remember growing up with a 5 clubs in a set! I think I played the junior clubs right up until I was 12! It really made me focus on half shots etc. I like your thinking about reigning back the amount of clubs. I also think that limiting lofts in wedges is a big one!
We can't change club design as I think it will deter a lot of people from trying the sport.

[RRFireblade]

I'd go back 30 years in a heart beat.

Where woods were woods , Tiger was a cereal and real men wore plaid !

[golfguy31]

I think limiting number of clubs would be the easiest and have the least effect on amateurs.  Easy to implement, don't have to buy new clubs, just make a choice of which ones your most effective with.  Manufacturers don't change anything, everyone has an option of what they want to play and don't want to play.  Also, if you want to keep your 14 clubs, go ahead, you're an amateur, who's going to call you on it.  Very easy to implement just to the pro game without affecting anyone else.

I like it, make it so.

[jack1123]

I think reigning in the ball. The golf industry is too reliant upon OEMs to go silly with restrictions in clubs.

Also, better/different course design. For example, with the likes of 240+ yard par 3s course designers have made distance essential. I'd love to see par 3s in the range of 160-190, but very protected, small greens, tough pins, more undulating greens. Par 4s where accuracy from the tee comes before distance. With 500 yard par 4s players HAVE to rely on distance. More true 3 shot par 5s where distance may be an advantage, however a skilled short game is just as likely to reward a birdie as crushing it 300+.

Edited by jack1123, 07 November 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Cwing]

No need. Golf is hard and these changes will not grow the game.

[Mikey Town]

Cwing, on 07 November 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

No need. Golf is hard and these changes will not grow the game.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^


Golf is VERY hard.

If they want to make the game more difficult for the pros, just do it with course set-up.  The USGA proves every year at the US Open (as long as it doesn't rain a bunch and soften up the course) that course set-up can make par a very good score, regardless of the equipment used.

If more tournaments went to more difficult set-ups, golf would be harder for the pros.  You can't exactly dictate the weather, or a few other variables, so you can't predetermine a winning score, but you sure as heck can make sure that nobody will haul off and post -20.  However, it is very unlikely that this will ever happen because birdies, eagles, 350+ yard drives and par 5s in 2 equal ratings... and ratings equal cash.

[MadGolfer76]

I would rather let the numbers die than the standards and traditions.

[sblack5]

I would be ok with a few things changing......... however......golf is now more of a business than a sport at the highest levels as far as equipment manufacturers go. They are making more $ than ever and a good bit of that cash goes toward new research to make average amateurs have better shots without having to have a better swing.  In my eyes this makes the game more enjoyable on a mass scale and brings more people to the sport.

[seasterl]

Simple:  use only irons!

Drop the fairway metals and hybrids and bring back the 1-3 irons.  Athleticism and technology now make score comparisons apples and oranges if comparing what the old timers shot on a particular course.  Nowadays, there are a lot of guys that can carry 300 yds and use a lofty hybrid to land softly onto a green. The game sure has changed.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I think the entire "problem" is made up, imaginary in the minds of people with a pathological need to wring their hands over how someone else chooses to play the game. The USGA totally stuck their head in the sand for a decade while the golf ball got far longer (for elite players) then tried to limit the change after it was too late. Ever since, they've been trying one idiotic thing after another to make it look like they're doing something, anything.

What exactly is the harm that is being done by square grooves or long putters? I just don't see it.

[richard t]

+1 on Ceres. I've been playing golf since I was 12. That's 54 years! (where did the time go?). I've played with broken, busted, old, hand me downs and the newest/best stuff. If you want a good game you've got to work at it - HARD! No equipment is going to make you Jack Nicklaus. Those who play at the top (tour), top amateurs and even those who want to be single digit players will/should always follow the rules. On the other hand, golf is hard enough. For the average guy what difference does it make? $1 million is not on the line. The US Amateur is not at stake. Now I don't advocate clubs that will do it all for you, but if folks want to play long putters, moon reaching balls, square grooves etc. in their weekly group let'er rip. I see guys all the time playing with 'illegal' stuff. Does anyone really think they care? If it's about playing with friends, having fun and enjoying themselves I say go for it! The USGA, in my opinion, thinks it's the Oracle of Delphi. Most times, as Ceres pointed out, they are ten yards behind the play and then want to call it back. I lost a lot of faith in the USGA with the whole Karsten mess over the EYE2s. Perfect example of trying to close the door after the horse was gone. Does golf need a ruling body? YES! Should it be the USGA? YES! Should they speak for every person who plays/enjoys the game. NO!

[profsmitty]

Pat_Irish, on 07 November 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

So with all the debate over the last few years about equipment from long putters to ball, to hybrids  to groves including making courses longer to counter act the advances in equipment, lack of real skill etc, is there a solution ?
To get the debate going I am going to suggest

Max number of clubs to be reduced to 7

so you can hit your 6 iron 200 yards, but can you also hit it 150, can you chip with an 8 iron ? can you play  out of greenside bunkers with it, How would the tour pro handle all of this, would the cream come to the top or would you see the same guys still there, if the number of clubs rule was changed, there would be no litagation necessary, nothing banned, just go play

I see the OPs tongue firmly planted in his cheek, of course.

With that said, there are many threads over the last few years that have discussed the benefits that reducing the number of clubs can have for hackers, the group I proudly belong to. I occasionally play with my "car bag". It is collection of clubs that I have bought from the used bin or are left over from previous  equipment experiments. I have a persimmon driver, a three iron, a six iron, a nine iron, a PW, a SW, and old blue goose putter. I have fun, my bag is light enough for me to carry a few holes, and my scoring doesn't seem overly effected. And what's even more important, no one with the USGA seems to care a whit.

[Myherobobhope]

I don't think there is much of a problem in the world of equipment... I'm fine with the current set of rules.

If the USGA feels they need to change things to make the PGA more competitive, then those changes should stay at the top level...

[jwrogers]

jack1123, on 07 November 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Also, better/different course design. For example, with the likes of 240+ yard par 3s course designers have made distance essential. I'd love to see par 3s in the range of 160-190, but very protected, small greens, tough pins, more undulating greens. Par 4s where accuracy from the tee comes before distance. With 500 yard par 4s players HAVE to rely on distance. More true 3 shot par 5s where distance may be an advantage, however a skilled short game is just as likely to reward a birdie as crushing it 300+.

I think courses should be shorter and more walkable, and more of them should be designed so you can bounce the ball into the green.   That's the way it used to be.   Probably the biggest change in golf (if it isn't the ball) is all these premium daily-fee courses with "signature holes" all over.    Most golf courses are too tough for the average player, IMHO.

[Agent Jim]

A lot of people fool themselves into thinking they are playing competitive golf, when its really recreational.  I think there is a need to separate the two.

I think recreational golfers like myself should have all the current options
.
I think competitive golfers should be governed more like Formula 1. There is specifics that need to be followed to level the field. Like in F1 how they use one tire manufacturer, tournament golf should have one ball.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

In what way would a "tournament ball" improve the PGA Tour? Either from the perspective of someone watching it on TV or from the perspective of the players.

Has someone won 20 majors because they played a certain ball that's better than the others? Hell, has anyone ever won a single Tour event because they were playing a ball that gave them an advantage?

I'd suggest if there was an advantage to one ball over another then all the players would soon be using that ball. Just like the belly putter. When a whole season goes by without a single Tour winner using a conventional putter maybe I'll start to think there's a "problem" with belly putters on Tour.

[golferlaird]

Bubba Watson shot even par using just a 4 wood.

[Vindog]

Arizonalefty59, on 07 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I think everyone should play butter knife blades and putt with an Anser style putter hitting persimmon woods!

Why let them use an anser head?

[rogolf]

Everyone should use Corey Pavin's bullseye putter. That would certainly be interesting.

Want to make it easier or harder ? - change the par.  It's amazing that the same 500 yard hole is too easy as a par 5 and too difficult as a par 4, yet the scoring average will be exactly the same regardless of the number on the card.
Why does par have to be 70 - 72?
Is your total score for the day going to change if the par on the scorecard changes?

I do support decreasing the number of clubs (to ten?) but leaving all other club requirements the same.  A reduction to the number permitted will force the player to sort out other things (such as wedge/iron lofts).

[Shrapnac]

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I would rather let the numbers die than the standards and traditions.

But how will you play when all of the courses are forced to close because they don't have any revenue?

[Pat_Irish]

Every event you watch, is it not all about length and putting,and if the course isnt 7400+ its a pitch and putt course ?. Now I can smile when I think of a Pro going out in round 4 looking at 20 clubs in his room and saying to himself, which 7 do i choose. I have seen many 3 club and 5 club events in my home club and the winners usually are, Guys over 60 who were once single digit handicaps, Their muscle memory was still there to play little knock down shots. chip and run, all played by feel, Nobody had 4 wedges in their bag,,, I appreciate that it would not be easy to arrange stateside, but guys if you ever get the chance, you might be amazed at how well you can play with less clubs The pro,s would not score as well by a long shot and no doubt some might just disappear, But I think that the fans might just enjoy it.