129 replies to this topic

[kevcarter]

mukster, on 07 November 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 07 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

sustain, on 07 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I don't hate Nike, but I do "hate" when fanboys use the word hater.

I hate when haters use the term fanboy. :-)

Darn kev, you stole my post

LOL

Live and let live!

[MadGolfer76]

TheU, on 07 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

There is a lot to be critical of, apart from the clubs. I like to flame Nike, but that is usually just based on the reactions of the self-styled fanboys. So easy to get upset. The good news is Nike doesn't care about what I have to say.

Honestly, some of the stuff they have put out over the years has been great. I loved the One Tour D, original blades, the first Pro Combo's, the Sasquatch fairways (the ones TW used) and the Machspeed Black driver, along with an occasional wedge. It was all just amazingly good. The rest was either "meh" or had the TW "victory red" theme to it. I just don't like the idea of gaming another person's clubs with his aesthetic painted all over them.

If Nike had just kept things plain and traditional, I would have probably overlooked the fact that they bought their way into the industry, put out Walmart-quality clubs for a few years before anything good (you guys remember that don't you?), and pay single players enough cash to curb famine in small countries.

Well, maybe not...

How did Nike "buy their way into the industry"?

Uhhh...?

Pre-Tiger Woods contract - no golf on the radar.

Sign TW - Golf apparel line.

Year or so after signing TW - full line of golf clubs.


Going from 0 to 60 without spending any time in the trenches. They bought the experts, they bought a place for their clubs, they bought the names, they bought...

...see a trend? This happened within a few short years. Hence my apt description of "buying" their way in. The clubs came about as a way to market TW's image, not because they wanted to break into the golf industry, else they would have done it prior to TW.

[SurfinTurf]

TheU, on 07 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

There is a lot to be critical of, apart from the clubs. I like to flame Nike, but that is usually just based on the reactions of the self-styled fanboys. So easy to get upset. The good news is Nike doesn't care about what I have to say.

Honestly, some of the stuff they have put out over the years has been great. I loved the One Tour D, original blades, the first Pro Combo's, the Sasquatch fairways (the ones TW used) and the Machspeed Black driver, along with an occasional wedge. It was all just amazingly good. The rest was either "meh" or had the TW "victory red" theme to it. I just don't like the idea of gaming another person's clubs with his aesthetic painted all over them.

If Nike had just kept things plain and traditional, I would have probably overlooked the fact that they bought their way into the industry, put out Walmart-quality clubs for a few years before anything good (you guys remember that don't you?), and pay single players enough cash to curb famine in small countries.

Well, maybe not...

How did Nike "buy their way into the industry"?

That's exactly what they do.  It's thier MO.

Here's an example from another market. Anybody remember the OP Pro surf contest at Hunnington Beach? Now it's called the Nike US Open and ALL the hot young talent is sponsored by Nike.   It's wasn't that long ago that they had ZERO presence.  They basically just showed up with bags of cash.

I'm not saying you should love or hate them but don't kid yourself.  If money is the name of the game then good for the guys that can cash in.

Edited by SurfinTurf, 07 November 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Arafel]

kevcarter, on 07 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

mukster, on 07 November 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 07 November 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

sustain, on 07 November 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I don't hate Nike, but I do "hate" when fanboys use the word hater.

I hate when haters use the term fanboy. :-)

Darn kev, you stole my post

LOL

Live and let live!

I'm not a hater, hater.

[RRFireblade]

Hate usually stems from within.

If you look for hate , hate is all you will see.

Dont take life so serious. Especially when missing out on it while on the net.  

[MadGolfer76]

RRFireblade, on 07 November 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hate usually stems from within.

If you look for hate , hate is all you will see.

Dont take life so serious. Especially when missing out on it while on the net.  

Says the Cally fanboy. lol

jk

[KYMAR]

OP you must have been in utter turmoil when formulating your post and organizing your thoughts. To first suggest how educated the membership here is and then to go to great lengths to tell us how stupid are are for not playing Nike clubs is no small task so Kudos there! To your point, i guess i might be among those you have chosen to chastise  Although there is no truth to the idea that I "hate" a company who makes golf stuff. That's a little ridiculous. My concern though is that because I don''t share your enthusiasm, you are left wounded and disgusted with me. Well,  I apologize for that but nothing is really going to change it. I have given props for the creativity they used in the new designs on the woods and hybrids. I said the new irons are pretty awful to look at and just won't be considered, again. I have never hit an iron of theirs that matched the feel of similar irons from other companies. I will say that the orig pro combos were very nice irons. But nothing since has moved me towards spending money on them. And as an opinion of mine, I find the Dymo woods to be some of the ugliest ever made. They never appealed to me at all. Appearance is an important factor to me. If that makes me a hater, so be it. I would suggest that maybe you should try to get past it and play what you want to play and quit worrying so much about other people opinions on it. And if you are determined to push folks past the idea that they are inferior quality, maybe choose a different tact because this "I think they're awesome and you should too!" approach is lacking, to say the least.

[H.A. Kerr]

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Pre-Tiger Woods contract - no golf on the radar.

Sign TW - Golf apparel line.

Year or so after signing TW - full line of golf clubs.

Going from 0 to 60 without spending any time in the trenches. They bought the experts, they bought a place for their clubs, they bought the names, they bought...

Nothing you can really argue with about your summary there ...

But I am curious how you think a company trying to break into the golf category (especially in the last few decades) should do it? What would be the "credible way" in? What would count as spending time "in the trenches" when your competition is all the major players, circa 1995? (If you're ignoring 10 years of golf shoes ... which I wouldn't bemoan anyone for ignoring)

[Shrapnac]

sustain, on 07 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

TheU, on 07 November 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

How about the first solid core golf ball? Does killing the wound ball count?

Add Bridgestone/Precept to that list of great products.  Nike did not develope that technology.  They just overpaid a mega star to use it. Sorry.  I know a lot of your selft esteem is wrapped up in brand recognition.

I bet if you asked Phil Knight if he overpaid Tiger Woods he'd laugh in your face as he rolls around in the pile of money Tiger and Nike Golf have made him.

[justodd]

You are never going to change this forum. It is a place for opinions, good, bad, or ugly. Appearently there are a lot of haters in golf. People are always more vocal about what they dislike, just the way it is.

[MtlJeff]

Here's the thing, "hate" is a strong word. I don't think anyone really "hates" a golf company. Golf companies don't affect your life in any way, shape or form. But IMO it's totally ok to dislike or like a golf company based on their advertisements and general behavior. Don't you guys get it...THEY WANT TO CREATE REACTIONS!!!! THAT'S WHY THEY ARE ALL HERE! You think Callaway and TM are on this site just to hang out and talk golf? They are here to figure how to sell product, get you to like their company. They are here so that you jump to their defense in threads, tell your friends how great they are etc...we are the early adopters, the ones with friends who listen to us, the influencers. Companies create marketing campaigns so you'll like them

So, to me, it's OK to dislike them aswell. Why is it OK for guys to respond "TaylorMade is awesome, they are all amazing and their executives care so much about us!", but if you write "their advertising is lowest common denominator" then you are a "hater". Why is one OK but not the other?

Like a company, dislike a company. It's your right as a consumer. They know you have this right and that's why they spend millions on influencing it. There are reasons to dislike Nike, there are reasons to dislike anything, except MtlJeff, who is awesome

[H.A. Kerr]

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

There are reasons to dislike Nike, there are reasons to dislike anything, except MtlJeff, who is awesome

I heard MtlJeff has a made-for shaft. Lame.

[MtlJeff]

H.A. Kerr, on 07 November 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

There are reasons to dislike Nike, there are reasons to dislike anything, except MtlJeff, who is awesome

I heard MtlJeff has a made-for shaft. Lame.

Lies, all lies!!!!!  MtlJeff likes Xcalibers so much he has had 2 seperate threads locked due to his excessive fanboying in them

[Crab Daddy]

KYMAR, on 07 November 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

OP you must have been in utter turmoil when formulating your post and organizing your thoughts. To first suggest how educated the membership here is and then to go to great lengths to tell us how stupid are are for not playing Nike clubs is no small task so Kudos there! To your point, i guess i might be among those you have chosen to chastise  Although there is no truth to the idea that I "hate" a company who makes golf stuff. That's a little ridiculous. My concern though is that because I don''t share your enthusiasm, you are left wounded and disgusted with me. Well,  I apologize for that but nothing is really going to change it. I have given props for the creativity they used in the new designs on the woods and hybrids. I said the new irons are pretty awful to look at and just won't be considered, again. I have never hit an iron of theirs that matched the feel of similar irons from other companies. I will say that the orig pro combos were very nice irons. But nothing since has moved me towards spending money on them. And as an opinion of mine, I find the Dymo woods to be some of the ugliest ever made. They never appealed to me at all. Appearance is an important factor to me. If that makes me a hater, so be it. I would suggest that maybe you should try to get past it and play what you want to play and quit worrying so much about other people opinions on it. And if you are determined to push folks past the idea that they are inferior quality, maybe choose a different tact because this "I think they're awesome and you should too!" approach is lacking, to say the least.

Whoa, Kymar!  Another epic rant. But, unless there is some background here that I have missed, I think you're reading between the lines ... like a novel's worth.  The OP's ... uh, OP simply bemoaned irrational contempt for Nike equipment. He didn't say you should like it, only that there is no reason to dismiss their equipment just because it has a swoosh on it.  Many of your comments could be applied to Ping, as well - there were many people , at the time, that thought the Eye 2's and the TiSi driver were hideous.
I'm no Nike fan or apologist, but I agree with the OP that there is not much difference in quality between any of the major OEMs. I own a Nike VR Pro driver because I wanted an inexpensive way to try out an adjustable driver. The sound is horrible, but the ball goes just as far and just as straight as with my beloved Ping driver. Well, not quite as far, but reasonably close - I mean, c'mon, it's a Ping.
I'm not on board with this one, but keep up the good work.

[H.A. Kerr]

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

H.A. Kerr, on 07 November 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

There are reasons to dislike Nike, there are reasons to dislike anything, except MtlJeff, who is awesome

I heard MtlJeff has a made-for shaft. Lame.

Lies, all lies!!!!!  MtlJeff likes Xcalibers so much he has had 2 seperate threads locked due to his excessive fanboying in them

I heard it from "my rep" so you know it has to be true.

[Crab Daddy]

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

H.A. Kerr, on 07 November 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

MtlJeff, on 07 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

There are reasons to dislike Nike, there are reasons to dislike anything, except MtlJeff, who is awesome

I heard MtlJeff has a made-for shaft. Lame.

Lies, all lies!!!!!  MtlJeff likes Xcalibers so much he has had 2 seperate threads locked due to his excessive fanboying in them

Did that really go over your head? Say it ain't so.

[Llortamaisey]

How can anyone hate Nike. They have the best running shoes and basketball shoes on the market. Are there better deals out there? Certainly. But no one can deny the style and performance when they hit the hardwood with a pair of Nikes on their feet.

[Crab Daddy]

Llortamaisey, on 07 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

How can anyone hate Nike. They have the best running shoes and basketball shoes on the market. Are there better deals out there? Certainly. But no one can deny the style and performance when they hit the hardwood with a pair of Nikes on their feet.

Phil? How's the weather in Oregon?

[BlkNGld]

need2compress, on 07 November 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

This site offers probably the most educated golf community on the web but the negativity about Nike golf equipment is not justified. Unfortunately, the signing of RM has once again ignited the bashing.
I understand they made a mistake with their first driver offering but to say their equipment is inferior to Titleist or other companies is ignorant. No one can match Nike's R and D budget. Moreover, the employees they have in the R and D department are some of the industries best and brightest. Many of them were actually plucked from other OEMS. People have to understand they started from zero just a decade ago.  Imagine where they will be in another 5 or ten years.  Good choice Rors!

The day after possibly the most positive Nike thread ever on this board and you choose that as the time to post this?  Nice timing.

Or was it the general disdain for the irons that got you going (hint: EVERY SGI iron here gets panned - even Ping and Mizuno).

need2dcompress, perhaps?

[RRFireblade]

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

RRFireblade, on 07 November 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hate usually stems from within.

If you look for hate , hate is all you will see.

Dont take life so serious. Especially when missing out on it while on the net.  

Says the Cally fanboy. lol

jk

Fan bois have only love in thier heart brother.

[Snufles]

TheMoneyShot, on 07 November 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

The haters will come out in drones now with this thread...

Like your love for Adams?

[BlkNGld]

MadGolfer76, on 07 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Going from 0 to 60 without spending any time in the trenches. They bought the experts, they bought a place for their clubs, they bought the names, they bought...

...see a trend? This happened within a few short years. Hence my apt description of "buying" their way in.

Couldn't the same be said of Adidas and Puma?

The only real difference is that Adidas and Puma bought the companies and the people, Nike brought in people who've paid dues, but as a company pretty much started from scratch.

I didn't care for the first few models, but they've shown they're in it for the long haul.

[Matty T]

This thread is useless

[BlkNGld]

Snufles, on 07 November 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

TheMoneyShot, on 07 November 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

The haters will come out in drones now with this thread...

Like your love for Adams?

I can think of only a couple of OEM for whom TMS has NOT professed love for at some point.

He may love em and leave em, but he's an equal opportunity ho!

[KYMAR]

Crab Daddy, on 07 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

KYMAR, on 07 November 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

OP you must have been in utter turmoil when formulating your post and organizing your thoughts. To first suggest how educated the membership here is and then to go to great lengths to tell us how stupid are are for not playing Nike clubs is no small task so Kudos there! To your point, i guess i might be among those you have chosen to chastise  Although there is no truth to the idea that I "hate" a company who makes golf stuff. That's a little ridiculous. My concern though is that because I don''t share your enthusiasm, you are left wounded and disgusted with me. Well,  I apologize for that but nothing is really going to change it. I have given props for the creativity they used in the new designs on the woods and hybrids. I said the new irons are pretty awful to look at and just won't be considered, again. I have never hit an iron of theirs that matched the feel of similar irons from other companies. I will say that the orig pro combos were very nice irons. But nothing since has moved me towards spending money on them. And as an opinion of mine, I find the Dymo woods to be some of the ugliest ever made. They never appealed to me at all. Appearance is an important factor to me. If that makes me a hater, so be it. I would suggest that maybe you should try to get past it and play what you want to play and quit worrying so much about other people opinions on it. And if you are determined to push folks past the idea that they are inferior quality, maybe choose a different tact because this "I think they're awesome and you should too!" approach is lacking, to say the least.

Whoa, Kymar!  Another epic rant. But, unless there is some background here that I have missed, I think you're reading between the lines ... like a novel's worth.  The OP's ... uh, OP simply bemoaned irrational contempt for Nike equipment. He didn't say you should like it, only that there is no reason to dismiss their equipment just because it has a swoosh on it.  Many of your comments could be applied to Ping, as well - there were many people , at the time, that thought the Eye 2's and the TiSi driver were hideous.
I'm no Nike fan or apologist, but I agree with the OP that there is not much difference in quality between any of the major OEMs. I own a Nike VR Pro driver because I wanted an inexpensive way to try out an adjustable driver. The sound is horrible, but the ball goes just as far and just as straight as with my beloved Ping driver. Well, not quite as far, but reasonably close - I mean, c'mon, it's a Ping.
I'm not on board with this one, but keep up the good work.

Maybe what has happened is that i get accused of hating Nike based on my rather modest criticism and therefore overlook posts by others that fit this irrational hatred definition. (I have even said in other threads that all oems make equipment from quality materials up to a high standard. Nike included) So maybe what the OP suggests in fact exists. Based on your post, and in rereading the OP, i will relent and in fact agree with the OP that anyone who continues to say things like "Nike Sucks" are just exposing their own bias. But i disagree with the premise that they some how need to be called out and should simply be ignored. It's sort of like Tiger conversations in that whenever I read "Tiger WILL NEVER win another major!!" I disregard it just as quickly as i do statements like "Tiger WILL DEFINITELY win 25 majors!!". Those statements are rooted in an obvious bias. The same type of things are said about most OEM's. Nike and TM seem to get most of that. Nike has this carpetbagger trying to  "buy a game" reputation, TM has this "all Hype" accusations thrown at them. If there are people out there who feel their lives would be better if Nike fails in the golf business and that's who the OP is referencing then I will agree. But people such as myself with legitimate, if arguable,  criticisms of them shouldn't be lumped in with the fools.

Edited by KYMAR, 07 November 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[bossdog]

Stetson, on 07 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I think Nike drivers are fairways are excellent. That being said I believe their wedges and putters are in the bottom half of the industry. Nike seems to be making progress but BECAUSE this board is so well educated in the golf world they need to offer more customization. The wedge loft/bounce selection is far behind Titleist, for example.

Nikes recent wedges have c grinds available as well and the method putters feel great and look great. Not sure what you're talking about

[wobgon]

KYMAR, on 07 November 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Crab Daddy, on 07 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

KYMAR, on 07 November 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

OP you must have been in utter turmoil when formulating your post and organizing your thoughts. To first suggest how educated the membership here is and then to go to great lengths to tell us how stupid are are for not playing Nike clubs is no small task so Kudos there! To your point, i guess i might be among those you have chosen to chastise  Although there is no truth to the idea that I "hate" a company who makes golf stuff. That's a little ridiculous. My concern though is that because I don''t share your enthusiasm, you are left wounded and disgusted with me. Well,  I apologize for that but nothing is really going to change it. I have given props for the creativity they used in the new designs on the woods and hybrids. I said the new irons are pretty awful to look at and just won't be considered, again. I have never hit an iron of theirs that matched the feel of similar irons from other companies. I will say that the orig pro combos were very nice irons. But nothing since has moved me towards spending money on them. And as an opinion of mine, I find the Dymo woods to be some of the ugliest ever made. They never appealed to me at all. Appearance is an important factor to me. If that makes me a hater, so be it. I would suggest that maybe you should try to get past it and play what you want to play and quit worrying so much about other people opinions on it. And if you are determined to push folks past the idea that they are inferior quality, maybe choose a different tact because this "I think they're awesome and you should too!" approach is lacking, to say the least.

Whoa, Kymar!  Another epic rant. But, unless there is some background here that I have missed, I think you're reading between the lines ... like a novel's worth.  The OP's ... uh, OP simply bemoaned irrational contempt for Nike equipment. He didn't say you should like it, only that there is no reason to dismiss their equipment just because it has a swoosh on it.  Many of your comments could be applied to Ping, as well - there were many people , at the time, that thought the Eye 2's and the TiSi driver were hideous.
I'm no Nike fan or apologist, but I agree with the OP that there is not much difference in quality between any of the major OEMs. I own a Nike VR Pro driver because I wanted an inexpensive way to try out an adjustable driver. The sound is horrible, but the ball goes just as far and just as straight as with my beloved Ping driver. Well, not quite as far, but reasonably close - I mean, c'mon, it's a Ping.
I'm not on board with this one, but keep up the good work.

Maybe what has happened is that i get accused of hating Nike based on my rather modest criticism and therefore overlook posts by others that fit this irrational hatred definition. (I have even said in other threads that all oems make equipment from quality materials up to a high standard. Nike included) So maybe what the OP suggests in fact exists. Based on your post, and in rereading the OP, i will relent and in fact agree with the OP that anyone who continues to say things like "Nike Sucks" are just exposing their own bias. But i disagree with the premise that they some how need to be called out and should simply be ignored. It's sort of like Tiger conversations in that whenever I read "Tiger WILL NEVER win another major!!" I disregard it just as quickly as i do statements like "Tiger WILL DEFINITELY win 25 majors!!". Those statements are rooted in an obvious bias. The same type of things are said about most OEM's. Nike and TM seem to get most of that. Nike has this carpetbagger trying to  "buy a game" reputation, TM has this "all Hype" accusations thrown at them. If there are people out there who feel their lives would be better if Nike fails in the golf business and that's who the OP is referencing then I will agree. But people such as myself with legitimate, if arguable,  criticisms of them shouldn't be lumped in with the fools.

Well said, but i still say it's silly to think even the fools hate a golf company.

[wobgon]

bossdog, on 07 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Stetson, on 07 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I think Nike drivers are fairways are excellent. That being said I believe their wedges and putters are in the bottom half of the industry. Nike seems to be making progress but BECAUSE this board is so well educated in the golf world they need to offer more customization. The wedge loft/bounce selection is far behind Titleist, for example.

Nikes recent wedges have c grinds available as well and the method putters feel great and look great. Not sure what you're talking about

Opinion. It's his opinion. You have your, he has his.

[Zunes]

Sean2, on 07 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

All the OEM's make great equipment. In today's competitive environment they have to. I don't why anyone would hate any OEM. Seems rather silly really.

People "hate" out of fear, or ignorance, but mostly to feel better about themselves because they are insecure.  It's a free country with free speach, but I don't have much use for reading uneducated blanket criticism of another poster, a company or a piece of golf equipment.

[mikeyun1992]

I hate Hammer X driver...

j/k, I love it! Ball just goes too far when you scream after the contact.