14 replies to this topic

[atsu888]

Could one of you course guru's tell me what each of these recent designers signature features are??
I noticed that there isn't once place that tells how each designer likes to create his courses.
Whatever information you can provide would be appreciated!
Thanks


Pete Dye:  Hidden bunkers, pot bunkers, railroad ties

Jack Nicklaus: Tight fairways, fast contoured greens,

Arnold Palmer: Large fairways and landing areas,

Greg Norman:

Rees Jones:

Tom Fazio:

Ted Robinson:

Robert Trent Jones:

Gary Player:

Tom Weiskopf:

Crenshaw/Coore:

Tom Doak:

Jim Engh:

[teejaywhy]

Many of these designers do have a signature style but I wanted to comment that Doak and C&C typically let the lay of the land tell them how the course will be designed, using the natural features of the site instead of forcing a particular style.  Some call this minimalism.  I find it to be an encouraging trend away from the modern styles that evolved during the 80's and 90's that focused mostly on visual esthetics and were less and less about the game of golf.

[farmer]

Totally on board with the Tee.  Too many of these guys move too much dirt, go for glitz rather than playability.  Too costly to build, too costly to maintain.

[cbehan]

From my experiences:

Dye: Hidden target golf.   It's almost impossible to play a course the way he wants you to play it the first time through if you don't have local knowledge.
Nicklaus: Courses tend to play his preferred ball-flight, left to right.
RTJ: Large greens, long, long courses.
Fazio: downhill drives, fairways that funnel towards the middle.
Weiskopf: variety.  I like his mix of hole shapes on most of his course I've played.
Donald Ross: (I know you said recent, but how can you leave him out?). Elevated greens with run-ups. Favor a good ground game.

Tee is dead on about Doak and C/C....very minimalistic and because of that, they have a very old feel to most of them.   C/C do alot of rough edges around bunkers to make it look like they've been there for centuries.

Edited by cbehan, 07 November 2012 - 01:21 PM.

[Waterboy]

teejaywhy, on 06 November 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Many of these designers do have a signature style but I wanted to comment that Doak and C&C typically let the lay of the land tell them how the course will be designed, using the natural features of the site instead of forcing a particular style.  Some call this minimalism.  I find it to be an encouraging trend away from the modern styles that evolved during the 80's and 90's that focused mostly on visual esthetics and were less and less about the game of golf.

Agree with what you say about Doak. He tries to move as little dirt as possible when it comes to designing. It also seems like if he has to move dirt, the end product will appear to be a natural feature.

[MarkCPA]

I agree with cbehan.  Nicklaus designs courses exactly the way he played.   High ball flight required and with a fade.

[MileHighClub]

Played a lot of Engh courses (he lives near me).  He is mostly known for creating "bowls" around his greens.

[sharkiesj]

RTJ (Sr. not Jr.) philosophy: Hard par, easy bogey. Father of the long, long tee box that offers infinite yardage options. Fairway bunkers on almost all par 4's, par 5's and greens are usually crowned.

Ted Robinson is known for his use of waterscapes more than a particular style.

Weiskopf loves the driveable par 4. All of his courses have one.

[duffer987]

OP: Jack and tight fairways? Found that he actually leaves a lot of room off the tee, for resort courses such as Nicklaus North or Bear's Best anyways.
RTJ Jr's style is surely showing how much he likes bulldozers?
Johnny Miller - when reigned in by his partners - can actually create some quality tracks with a great variety of holes and shots. When he isn't...eesh, stay away.

I really enjoy the 'minimalist' natural designs - the less contrived the better, but those are easier said than done. You need a really good piece of land to pull it off. Doak, C&C, Eddie Hackett (look him up if it's a new name to folks), Pat Ruddy (his links ones) and others who espouse that philosophy still couldn't turn an old airfield into a compelling 18 holes without moving a lot of dirt.

Course design is a very interesting subject, a couple other regional designers whose courses I've enjoyed are John Fought and John Harbottle. Two fellas who also seem to keep routings as naturally feeling as they can.

Edit: Wow! Absolute shame to hear about John Harbottle

Edited by duffer987, 10 November 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[sabram]

duffer987, on 10 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

Course design is a very interesting subject, a couple other regional designers whose courses I've enjoyed are John Fought and John Harbottle. Two fellas who also seem to keep routings as naturally feeling as they can.

Sad to say that Harbottle  passed away earlier this year. http://www.kitsapsun...john-harbottle/

[Ranger Rick]

Player uses a lot of clover greens and reasonably short par 3s and long par 5s. I don't think there are too many player courses where if you are playing from the right tee box you are hitting more than a 5 irons.

I'm not sure if he has done many international courses but a great local designer is Peter Matkovich. I like a lot of his work, especially a course called Ebotse about 40 minutes from me and one down on the coast which is arguably (one of) our Pebble Beach(s) http://www.pinnaclep...se_gallery.html

[Animal Chin]

Fazio -  square tee boxes

Donald Ross -  square greens

[HitTheStick]

My impression of Donald Ross greens is they are often upside down bowls. Fazio seems to like elevated tee boxes. Jack loves the short par 4. Rees Jones tends to have elevated greens, or at least ones that favor short over being long. He actually said so himself in an interview I did with him a while back.

[teejaywhy]

MileHighClub, on 09 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Played a lot of Engh courses (he lives near me).  He is mostly known for creating "bowls" around his greens.

I thought Scott Miller was the King of Containment Mounding... until I played an Engh course.

duffer987, on 10 November 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

OP: Jack and tight fairways? Found that he actually leaves a lot of room off the tee, for resort courses such as Nicklaus North or Bear's Best anyways.

From my limited experience, Nicklaus does tend to be forgiving from the tee but offers a steady diet of very demanding approaches to the green with severe penalty for failure and limited bailout options.  A lot of cape style/diagonal greens with fronting hazards on holes with long iron/hybrid approaches.  I've discovered that if I want to have any fun playing a JN course, I need to step up a tee box or two and "play it forward."

[SnapFade2]

MileHighClub, on 09 November 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Played a lot of Engh courses (he lives near me).  He is mostly known for creating "bowls" around his greens.

plus one on the engh ive played a few of his from colorado to az to idaho. they are all the same a wow factor but lots of bowls around his greens and ever where else. the worst to maintain if you a greens keeper.