48 replies to this topic

[virtuoso]

juliette91, on 14 November 2012 - 01:43 AM, said:

  If you mean playing for a large draw or large fade/slice I can relate to that.  The only swing I can put on the ball when the full yips are in bloom is a big distance eating slice.  Not sure why I can do that yip free but I can.

I would imagine it's similar to falling off a 4 inch wide balance beam. If I tell you it's ok to fall but you must fall off the right side, you relax and fall off the right side (ie, you hold the clubface pretty open, or pretty darn open, or way wide friggin open). What you've actually done is expand the margin exponentially.Your brain can make sense of that and the confidence you can do it takes away the pressure. So with the big slice, you don't really have outer bounds that put you in steer mode. That's what the yips are: steer mode on steroids.

If I said, "Ok, you can slice the ball, but it has to be between a 10 yard slice and a 20 yard slice, no larger or smaller", you'd yip it again.

On a normal straight shot, your brain tells your hands on the down swing: "Don't miss it too far left, and for heaven's sake, don't miss it too far right." Your hands cannot operationally guard against left and right at the same time. Big flinch.

Edited by virtuoso, 15 November 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[juliette91]

blindwillie, on 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The study and practice of mindfulness and acceptance has been successful with some of my clients who suffer from the yips. The yips can be triggered by a thought you have during your swing.  Mindfulness practice will allow such a thought to come and go without the body feeling it must react.  The practice is quite helpful with golf.  While there really is no time to consciously process thoughts in the middle of our swing, those who have mastered mindfulness are able to complete this task unconsciously.

Thank you for responding.  I've started just meditating, recalling a TM word given to me about 45 years ago.  Is this enough or what do you recommend for the best way to pursue this.
Your suggestion is one of the key pathways to overcoming this malady in my opinion.

[juliette91]

juliette91, on 17 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

blindwillie, on 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The study and practice of mindfulness and acceptance has been successful with some of my clients who suffer from the yips. The yips can be triggered by a thought you have during your swing.  Mindfulness practice will allow such a thought to come and go without the body feeling it must react.  The practice is quite helpful with golf.  While there really is no time to consciously process thoughts in the middle of our swing, those who have mastered mindfulness are able to complete this task unconsciously.

Thank you for responding.  I've started just meditating, recalling a TM word given to me about 45 years ago.  Is this enough or what do you recommend for the best way to pursue this.
Your suggestion is one of the key pathways to overcoming this malady in my opinion.

I have had successes when I am in the throes of the fsyips, and those successes are derived from a series of articles on the yips by the Canadian author/columnist Lorne Rubenstein---echoing for the  most part what you're saying.

When I am beset I can usually conjur up a big slice off the tee.  Somehow changing my stance and swinging across the ball purposely frees up my swing.  It's not the same way for the hook as that forces my hands to turn over in sync and that is pretty much what the full swing yips interferes with.  So to purposely hit the draw is harder when one is in the throes of the yips.

[blindwillie]

juliette91, on 17 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

blindwillie, on 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The study and practice of mindfulness and acceptance has been successful with some of my clients who suffer from the yips. The yips can be triggered by a thought you have during your swing.  Mindfulness practice will allow such a thought to come and go without the body feeling it must react.  The practice is quite helpful with golf.  While there really is no time to consciously process thoughts in the middle of our swing, those who have mastered mindfulness are able to complete this task unconsciously.

Thank you for responding.  I've started just meditating, recalling a TM word given to me about 45 years ago.  Is this enough or what do you recommend for the best way to pursue this.
Your suggestion is one of the key pathways to overcoming this malady in my opinion.

Mindfulness is a practice I have studied and recently incorporated into my practice.  Its important to note the distinction between mindfulness and meditation.  Mindfulness is not a relaxation practice, but a way of achieving optimal performance all in the face of negative thoughts.  The theory is called the Mindfulness Acceptance Commitment Theory from Gardner and Moore's work and is gaining traction in the world of performance enhancement.  Feel free to PM me if you want to know more and good luck in your journey!

[Jim Waldron]

The Focal Point method that I have developed over the past 20 years teaching golf is basically mindfulness training with a golf club in your hand. It is very effective at inhibiting the yips and also the "Three Demons" of Golf - the Hit, Steering and Scooping Impulses. This method evolved from my training and experiences in Asian martial arts, Buddhist meditation practice (both Japanese Zen Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism), Gestalt therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, NLP, hypnotherapy, Pilates and Yoga. This is a two-pronged approach for my students with the severe yips, addressing the root cause of self-esteem/confidence issues wrapped around performance as well as mind/body connection issues of neurological mis-cues.

The idea is to learn how to focus the mind on a single focal point while at the same time "doing nothing", ie not reacting to any negative thoughts or emotions that might still creep in. As you get better at the focus part, the mind wanders much less, or even not at all, the brain/body connection remains strong and clear, and the yip impulse is inhibited. "Doing nothing" is not the same thing as "trying" to do nothing, since trying is still "efforting" which is a "something". It is very much along the same lines as Hogan's idea of "removing oneself" from the golf swing or removing all self-interference. Yippers especially (although 99% of all golfers do this to some degree) are always trying to "add" something to their swing or to change something in their swing.

[juliette91]

blindwillie, on 17 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

juliette91, on 17 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

blindwillie, on 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

The study and practice of mindfulness and acceptance has been successful with some of my clients who suffer from the yips. The yips can be triggered by a thought you have during your swing.  Mindfulness practice will allow such a thought to come and go without the body feeling it must react.  The practice is quite helpful with golf.  While there really is no time to consciously process thoughts in the middle of our swing, those who have mastered mindfulness are able to complete this task unconsciously.

Thank you for responding.  I've started just meditating, recalling a TM word given to me about 45 years ago.  Is this enough or what do you recommend for the best way to pursue this.
Your suggestion is one of the key pathways to overcoming this malady in my opinion.

Mindfulness is a practice I have studied and recently incorporated into my practice.  Its important to note the distinction between mindfulness and meditation.  Mindfulness is not a relaxation practice, but a way of achieving optimal performance all in the face of negative thoughts.  The theory is called the Mindfulness Acceptance Commitment Theory from Gardner and Moore's work and is gaining traction in the world of performance enhancement.  Feel free to PM me if you want to know more and good luck in your journey!

Thank you so much for weighing in on this discussion.  I've been pleasantly surprised at the number of responders but more pleased with the content, yours among them.  I will PM you about this.

[juliette91]

Jim, thanks mightily for entering this fray and for giving us a bit of background about yourself so we can accord you
the proper credibility for what you've stated.  Sometimes this world wide web thing amazes me with the connections
one can make just by putting something out there.  Do you agree with blindwillie about the difference between mindfulness
and meditation practices?

Edited by juliette91, 19 November 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[kellygreen]

juliette91, on 19 November 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Jim, thanks mightily for entering this fray and for giving us a bit of background about yourself so we can accord you
the proper credibility for what you've stated.  Sometimes this world wide web thing amazes me with the connections
one can make just by putting something out there. Do you agree with blindwillie about the difference between mindfulness
and meditation practices?

Yes...and no.

Mindfulness is synonym for "present moment awareness" or "being in the moment."  Meditation is an arraying of mind-training practices whereby one cultivates mindfulness.  Either by cultivating it directly ("mindfulness meditiation") or indirectly through strengthening concentration.

In long-term meditation practitioners, the power of concentration becomes so strong that the background chatter of the mind slows down...and then falls silent.  So that mindfulness eventually becomes a part of that person's everyday life, and (in many ways) their life becomes a "meditation practiice in motion".

[blindwillie]

Great points Kellygreen.  You are spot on.   Confusion can arise  when mindfulness training is mistaken for either relaxation, breathing training, or positive thinking.  It also is not trancelike or flat emotion.  At its essence, and in response to the OP, mindfulness promotes self-awareness to the point where we can be free from habitual reactions and impulses, or full swing yips

[Jim Waldron]

juliette91, on 19 November 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Jim, thanks mightily for entering this fray and for giving us a bit of background about yourself so we can accord you
the proper credibility for what you've stated.  Sometimes this world wide web thing amazes me with the connections
one can make just by putting something out there.  Do you agree with blindwillie about the difference between mindfulness
and meditation practices?

Kelly got it right, there are many varieties of mediation practice, but the biggest difference between authentic meditative traditional practice and popular Western forms is the Western forms are more utilitarian, ie you mediate in order to achieve some "end result" such as relaxation, or stress reduction. The classical Budhhist approach is based on a vital underlying premise which is the illusory nature of the self or ego, and the essential  nature of reality itself, which is impermanence. In the early stages of traditional practice, it is really more a form of concentration practice, to tame the wandering "monkey mind". Once some level of focus/stillness has been attained, then the real mindfullness approach is possible, where the mind is free and open and accepting and wide awake - not at all a trance-state - but one that is very practical, and level-headed, ie one you could take to work! Or the golf course...

[kellygreen]

Jim Waldron, on 19 November 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

juliette91, on 19 November 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Jim, thanks mightily for entering this fray and for giving us a bit of background about yourself so we can accord you
the proper credibility for what you've stated.  Sometimes this world wide web thing amazes me with the connections
one can make just by putting something out there.  Do you agree with blindwillie about the difference between mindfulness
and meditation practices?

Kelly got it right, there are many varieties of mediation practice, but the biggest difference between authentic meditative traditional practice and popular Western forms is the Western forms are more utilitarian, ie you mediate in order to achieve some "end result" such as relaxation, or stress reduction. The classical Budhhist approach is based on a vital underlying premise which is the illusory nature of the self or ego, and the essential  nature of reality itself, which is impermanence. In the early stages of traditional practice, it is really more a form of concentration practice, to tame the wandering "monkey mind". Once some level of focus/stillness has been attained, then the real mindfullness approach is possible, where the mind is free and open and accepting and wide awake - not at all a trance-state - but one that is very practical, and level-headed, ie one you could take to work! Or the golf course...

With the additional benefit that it helps to make one less emotionally reactive to other people's foibles, or to stressful situations.

[juliette91]

Just a follow up to try to do what I said I was going to do at the outset, keep people posted on my progress.  I ended up contacting one of the posters on this
board and took a series of private lessons targeting the dreaded flinches.  That would be Mr. Jim Waldron.  The lessons were intense but highly designed to
find ways of distracting the mind with conscious activity of either visual, kinesthetic or auditory activity.  Big idea, just one of these so called focal points at a time.
I've just returned from the lessons and the first two rounds out of the box saw a fairly dramatic reduction in full swing yips from the teeing ground.  I have some
work to do with the chipping yips but even though I have continually yipped the chips the results are less awful.  That is a start.  Having flinched for many many
years I never expected to find a turnkey operation, but this series of lessons was by far the best I have ever had for both mechanics and especially for my mind.

[kevcarter]

juliette91, on 11 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Just a follow up to try to do what I said I was going to do at the outset, keep people posted on my progress.  I ended up contacting one of the posters on this
board and took a series of private lessons targeting the dreaded flinches.  That would be Mr. Jim Waldron.  The lessons were intense but highly designed to
find ways of distracting the mind with conscious activity of either visual, kinesthetic or auditory activity.  Big idea, just one of these so called focal points at a time.
I've just returned from the lessons and the first two rounds out of the box saw a fairly dramatic reduction in full swing yips from the teeing ground.  I have some
work to do with the chipping yips but even though I have continually yipped the chips the results are less awful.  That is a start.  Having flinched for many many
years I never expected to find a turnkey operation, but this series of lessons was by far the best I have ever had for both mechanics and especially for my mind.

Great news. Good luck with this moving forward. I hope to keep hearing of your improvement and that you are having fun again!!!

[gvogel]

My own experience is that the yips are caused by being "ball bound", and trying to do something - a move - during the shot.  I've fought the putting, chipping and full shot yips.  Putting yips were overcome by a belly putter and claw grip.  Chipping yips are reduced by thinking of the finish of the action, and being target oriented.  I keep a picture of the target in my mind and "let" my body hit the shot.  Also, realizing that I am not perfect allows the part of the brain that drives your car to work while you are thinking about something totally unrelated, allowing that part to function without frontal core interference.

I played 4 rounds while closing my eyes for all tee shots this past summer.  That helped a lot - perhaps just to realize that my swing is good, but not perfect.  I'll do that again sometime next year.

[juliette91]

kevcarter, on 11 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

juliette91, on 11 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Just a follow up to try to do what I said I was going to do at the outset, keep people posted on my progress.  I ended up contacting one of the posters on this
board and took a series of private lessons targeting the dreaded flinches.  That would be Mr. Jim Waldron.  The lessons were intense but highly designed to
find ways of distracting the mind with conscious activity of either visual, kinesthetic or auditory activity.  Big idea, just one of these so called focal points at a time.
I've just returned from the lessons and the first two rounds out of the box saw a fairly dramatic reduction in full swing yips from the teeing ground.  I have some
work to do with the chipping yips but even though I have continually yipped the chips the results are less awful.  That is a start.  Having flinched for many many
years I never expected to find a turnkey operation, but this series of lessons was by far the best I have ever had for both mechanics and especially for my mind.

Great news. Good luck with this moving forward. I hope to keep hearing of your improvement and that you are having fun again!!!

Thanks for the encouraging words.  The big picture for me now is that I have a plan.  Now I know all plans don't work out, but I'm now armed with plan B through G--really, and I've tested them
for their affect on my swing.

[juliette91]

gvogel, on 11 December 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

My own experience is that the yips are caused by being "ball bound", and trying to do something - a move - during the shot.  I've fought the putting, chipping and full shot yips.  Putting yips were overcome by a belly putter and claw grip.  Chipping yips are reduced by thinking of the finish of the action, and being target oriented.  I keep a picture of the target in my mind and "let" my body hit the shot.  Also, realizing that I am not perfect allows the part of the brain that drives your car to work while you are thinking about something totally unrelated, allowing that part to function without frontal core interference.

I played 4 rounds while closing my eyes for all tee shots this past summer.  That helped a lot - perhaps just to realize that my swing is good, but not perfect.  I'll do that again sometime next year.

Good post and advice.  I agree with everything you've said though I personally tried the putting method you suggest and didn't have any positive results.  As far as chipping yips, I noticed in my recent lessons where we
spent a couple hours figuring out what kinesthetic or auditory or visual focal point I could actually maintain throughout the chip--that visualizing Ernie Els' chipping finish often worked well for me.  Driving, I'm getting a bit better at controlling the flinches.  One key is to practice these focal points until they become ingrained.  It's only through maintaining a clear focal point throughout preshot and swing that one can keep the yip feelings at bay.

[kevcarter]

juliette91, on 11 December 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 11 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

juliette91, on 11 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Just a follow up to try to do what I said I was going to do at the outset, keep people posted on my progress.  I ended up contacting one of the posters on this
board and took a series of private lessons targeting the dreaded flinches.  That would be Mr. Jim Waldron.  The lessons were intense but highly designed to
find ways of distracting the mind with conscious activity of either visual, kinesthetic or auditory activity.  Big idea, just one of these so called focal points at a time.
I've just returned from the lessons and the first two rounds out of the box saw a fairly dramatic reduction in full swing yips from the teeing ground.  I have some
work to do with the chipping yips but even though I have continually yipped the chips the results are less awful.  That is a start.  Having flinched for many many
years I never expected to find a turnkey operation, but this series of lessons was by far the best I have ever had for both mechanics and especially for my mind.

Great news. Good luck with this moving forward. I hope to keep hearing of your improvement and that you are having fun again!!!

Thanks for the encouraging words.  The big picture for me now is that I have a plan.  Now I know all plans don't work out, but I'm now armed with plan B through G--really, and I've tested them
for their affect on my swing.

Following the posts on Yips for years, Mr. Waldron is the one who always has the answers and the results to back them up. Great to hear you had a chance to work with him, I wish I could have!

Kevin

[Jim Waldron]

Juliette91, you were a pleasure to work with and a very talented golfer: two 8 hour days of intense golf instruction, with a day off in between to play Kahuku and Turtle Bay and explore the North Shore of Oahu, then a third day of 5.5 hours of instruction. Glad to hear that things are improving for you so much. Your driver swing is much better, a lot more distance and overall you seem much more confident. Yips are a tough issue since there is almost always  more than one root cause, but we covered all the bases so I am confident that you will continue to make progress. Learning to control ones "state" - especially both mentally and emotionally, is what it is all about.


We started with the grip change, which creates a new neuromuscular pathway and disrupts the old yip pathway, and J saw immediate imrpovement in both execution and ball flight. Then - moving forward, we worked on various other elements of Educated and Aware Hands, Tempo, Rhythm, a deeper backswing coil, accessing a state of Indifference/Detachment, and Confidence.

Understanding the Yip Wave of negative energy and how to deal with it is also a key area of focus.

[juliette91]

Hello everyone, reporting progress.  Played a resort course with wide open fairways and on vacation mode, so bear that in mind.  Still, I had only one full swing yip and it was about 50% milder than my usual
hit it off the planet result.  I drove the ball as well as I ever have for an extended period of time. Chipping is a bit better but still a number of jabs at the ball.  Did not have any chips where I could not take the club back so that's a bonus.  I know Jim now since he was my teacher, but we're not in cahoots about this to drum up business for him.  I like him, he helped me but I will continue to report only the results I'm having and the progress regardless of whether or not they enhance or detract from his teaching methods.  This is a big responsibility to this forum that I do not take lightly, since I know the agony of what these flinches cause.  


Best to everyone.