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Full swing yips, any help out there?

full swing yips

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#1 juliette91

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM

I don't have them all the time while playing, or I'd quit for sure, but at least 4-5x/round and with chipping too, causing
me to lose on average 2-8 strokes/round depending upon penalty strokes atttached to these uncontrollable twitches.

Please don't get involved in this topic and offer any advice (for your own good) unless you've been there (and I hope, done that)

Tks!


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#2 juliette91

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:40 PM

 juliette91, on 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I don't have them all the time while playing, or I'd quit for sure, but at least 4-5x/round and with chipping too, causing
me to lose on average 2-8 strokes/round depending upon penalty strokes atttached to these uncontrollable twitches.

Please don't get involved in this topic and offer any advice (for your own good) unless you've been there (and I hope, done that)

Tks!

I guess it's no surprise that no one has commented, though 90 people have wandered onto this thread even after reading the clear subject title.
So, this is what I am going to do.  First, describe in detail what I have done to overcome the yips---so you will know what has been tried unsuccessfully--
and then I will describe what I am going to do---and give myself 3 months of dogged follow through to see if my new ideas work.

I will report everything here regardless of its success.

I have been golfing for over 50 years and my first yip occurred when I was 16, on a putting green in a competition.  I twitched violently and sent a 15 foot putt about
60 feet.  Scared the heck out of me.  Very few twitches for a while and then in another competition when I was 21 a few twitched putts.  Played sparingly the next
ten years but starting about age 30 I began playing with work mates in friendly competition and developed chipping yips.  Could not pull the club back sometimes
and only could overcome them by opening the SW face practically wide open and taking pretty much full swings, harder or easier depending upon the distance required.
Putting was twitchy but not all the time, but the chipping was full on twitch all the time.  Finally got to me and I quit golf for about 8 years.

Took up golf again at about age 40 and on a vacation trip to AZ with a friend, no competition at all, started full swing yips with the driver.  In the real estate development courses
we were playing that made for many dicey moments.  The full swing yips, first experienced, were terrifying.

Did not quit but found the full swing yips came and went and usually came more frequently with competition or when I was verging on a low score.  Obviously pressure was a likely source and instead of responding heroically I responded in quite the opposite way.  I switched putting from my dominant hand to the other hand, and have but for very few
times putted smoothly yip free despite many pressure situations.  Chipping is on again off again with the yips but I received some help from someone who now is a regular contributor to Golf Magazine, and that has helped some. Still yip but say it's about 20% of the time (easily enough to lose 2 or 3 strokes a round).  Full swing yips vary and I can yip 50% of all tee shots if it's a heavy onset===usually equated to heavy competition.  Still I full swing yip almost always at least once or twice every single round===but much less so when I play alone.

My handicap index is today around 4.6 but over the past three years it has been as low as 3.4 and as high as 6.6, mostly all yip related in the fluctuation.

Here is what I have unsuccessfully tried:  one on one session for a week with book author of mental approach to successful golf.  This person utilized NLP and hypnosis therapies.

Skype sessions with EFT therapist who has an unblemished record for yip success (unnamed because this person feels I did not give it my best shot.  I disagreed).

Sports hypnosis, Hawaiian native therapy (cannot remember the name), sports psychologists, rapid eye movement therapies, many golf lessons with the big idea that a
mechanical flaw in my swing was the cause, visit to the Hank Haney ranch and an instructor there who specialized in the yips===this after reading Haney's GDigest article on his full swing yips.  I did get some help in my chipping that still works 75% of the time but no success for the full swing yips.  Problem there was that I was rarely able to produce the yips on demand so they could be evaluated properly.

The putting machine the Haney folks put me on showed my yip but my opposite hand putting was so pure we decided to just go that direction.  Of course the one continuing
problem is lining up and seeing the line properly.  Putting from the opposite side creates that line up problem even though my stroke is quite good.  Not seeing the target line accurately or lining up to it accurately is quite bad.  Also tried putting with my eyes closed (works some of the time) forcing my eyes to stay open and unflinching (works some of the time) and every kind of putting stroke/grip hold/grip pressure/putter size out there: long, side saddle, claw, opposite hand low, etc.  I even yip when only holding the putter lightly with only my forefinger and thumb on the shaft.  A frequent yip poster here has his own approach, that of trying to supplant any thought process which occurs immediately prior to impact with a nonsense phrase that one repeats in a cadence as one begins preshot.  I may not have given this approach the due it requires.

What I am going to try.

1. Meditation.  I have never really given this a try.  3 months may not be a long enough testing period.

2. Clearkey technique of practicing with and repeating a nonsense but lyrical phrase (the beat is in sync with the swing, number of syllables important) as one swings.
In my opinion the force behind the Clearkey idea has the best grasp of the yip problem, along with another blogger, Geoff Mangum, who takes serious issue with Debbie
Crews, ASU prof and her influential opinions about the yips.  I do not know Mangum's approach to the yips only what he does not find credible, which echoes my opinion too---err, I should say I echo him not the other way around.  I will follow up on ClearKey and Mangum if I find out from him what he suggests.

3. Mirror Box/vibration.  This is my own idea based upon my reading about the way the brain works.  This therapy is often successful for amputees who feel residual pain in the
amputated limb.  The idea is to train the brain to think there is a limb there when there isn't, so the brain will stop the pain.  Look up mirror box for amputees to find out more.
My idea is that something in my brain and I think all yippers' brains is wired improperly.  Somehow the cortex on the side of the brain which controls my disobedient hand has lost
its way and is not following my commands.  Retraining my cortex will be a central part of my therapy.  I'm also looking into, but haven't figured out a way to implement, the idea of
stimulating the soles of my feet while I'm swinging.  The big idea here is that our bodies have the most neurological sensitivity in our hands, our tongues and the soles of our feet.
My hands are the issue so I'm trying to reach my cortex through the soles of my feet.  Perhaps by sending signals through them I can scramble the set in pattern in my cortex.
Of course if I start violently yipping full swings while trying to scramble my cortex I run the risk of embedding that yip even deeper.  I need to put more thought into exactly how to
do this.  None of these therapies--#3.--are now utilized for yips.  Vibration therapy is mentioned as a possible research endeavor in the book: Your Body Has A Mind Of Its Own, a fascinating read for yippers and non alike.  Also mentioned there is the possibility of using the tongue and the technique is described in the book.  I do not have the tools to make that happen but the vibration of the soles could be within my reach.

If I'm successful I won't know which of the modalities I'm trying is the one that really works, but this is not a scientific experiment for me, it's only about solving a problem.  I figure all of the above can't hurt.

If you've gotten this far in my rant, congratulations!

Edited by juliette91, 05 November 2012 - 01:11 PM.


#3 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Ok, started my program with the meditation and the Clearkey model.  For Clearkey, one of the practice modes is to
perform what is called a 32 ball drill.  You select a club and hit 4 balls focussing on your mechanics and then you hit
4 balls using your Clearkey-which as I described is a lyrical but kinda nonsensical string of words that mimics the cadence
of your swing.  You say it 3x, starting with your approach to the ball.

To give you an idea, mine is: "Sticks and stones can break my bones, my name is Michael Murphy".  14 syllables and a lyrical
sound.

I've practiced the drill twice now.  Found that I yipped most of my full swing tee shots for the first 6 holes of play today but once on
the back 9 when I felt the feeling that all yippers know---that you're going to yip---I didn't.  Progress?  Maybe.  Anyway, played the
last 12 holes in 1 over saying the Clearkey for every single shot.

Just purchased a mirror box from a physical therapist in Maine but see that it is very easy to make one just using mirror tiles and a cardboard
box.  Not sure there's any difference given what I'm trying to do but the purchased wooden box sure looks a lot more professional.  Maybe it's
the same as looking at a beautiful club and gaining confidence from its appearance.

More later...

#4 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

Full swing yips are usually one of two things.  Upper and lower body completely out of sync in back swing....or rhythm is completely off...sometimes both.

Would have to see your swing.
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#5 MadGolfer76

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

juliette91, are you in Maine? I would be happy to help in any way I can.

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#6 kellygreen

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:26 PM

 juliette91, on 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I don't have them all the time while playing, or I'd quit for sure, but at least 4-5x/round and with chipping too, causing
me to lose on average 2-8 strokes/round depending upon penalty strokes atttached to these uncontrollable twitches.

Please don't get involved in this topic and offer any advice (for your own good) unless you've been there (and I hope, done that)

Tks!

About 12 years ago I struggled with a case of the driver yips that nearly ran me out of the game.   I could hit all my clubs fine on the range...but the moment I stepped out onto the course, I would top any wood club that I tried to tee up and hit. I went from a player who could regularly threaten 80, to one who couldn't break 110 with a hammer...and was terrified of any tee box that was fronted by water or wild terrain.

So, yes...I've been there.

IMO...of all the things you've proposed in your other posts....MEDITATION is probably the most effective treatment that is specifically "yip" related.
In my experience the "yips" are NOT a physical problem. They are a physical manifestation of uncontrolled Fear and a self-perpetuating pattern of negative thinking and negative expectation.  IOW, there are no "yippy hands"...there are YIPPY MINDS that are giving conflicted and unclear instructions to the hands.

The mind communicates what it wants the body to do in IMAGES...not words.  So if you stand over a drive...and genuinely fear/expect to top it...your mind will give your body instructions to top it.  Regardless of what your THINKING mind wants.

So the key to getting the yips under-control is about BREAKING the pattern of negative thinking, negative images, and negative expectations that keep it in place.   Getting control of your mind through meditation is helpful...but not necessary.  But you HAVE to clear your mind of the negativity and focus on what you WANT to have happen with the shot...and not what you FEAR MIGHT happen.

Changing something physical is often helpful...in that it helps to break up the habits and sensations that help reinforce the negative mental pattern.  In my case, it was changing an overly upright/steep swing plane that lead to the problems hitting wood clubs that triggered my bout of the driver yips.   After that, getting a handle on the yips is about controlling your mind...and building up an new experiences of positive outcomes to replace the negative one's you've built up.

So...

1.  Stop looking for a purely physical cause....you aren't going to find one.

2. Change something physical...but only as an additional means of breaking up the negative mental habits that reinforce the yips.

3. DISCIPLINE YOUR MIND.  Build up a mental routine that clearly visualizes and emphasizes the desired outcome...rather than letting a feared one dominate your mind. If a fearful though enters your mind while standing over a shot....you are not committed to the shot.  Back away...start over again.   Practice this mental routine like you practice your physical skills.

Do this...and your mind will once again give CLEAR (rather than fearfully conflicted) instructions to your body...and you'll start to hit good shots again.  Take time to savor those good shots, so you have them to draw upon as part of your mental routine.

4. Study the mental game of golf.

Edited by kellygreen, 06 November 2012 - 05:27 PM.

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#7 Tanner25

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Juliette,

I was suprised to see this post as previously you demonstrated confidence using the Master Key. What changed? Also, this topic interests me as I get "yippy" on short sided chips.

Tanner

Edited by Tanner25, 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM.


#8 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

 Tanner25, on 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Juliette,

I was suprised to see this post as previously you demonstrated confidence using the Master Key. What changed? Also, this topic interests me as I get "yippy" on short sided chips.

Tanner

The master key really has nothing to do with the yips; it's just a way of swinging the club.  Tanner, this is a topic you probably don't really know about, ie. haven't experienced it first hand, and my advice is to stay away from it.  For some it can be contagious and I'm serious about this.  Always appreciate your good posts.

#9 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

 juliette91, on 06 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

 Tanner25, on 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Juliette,

I was suprised to see this post as previously you demonstrated confidence using the Master Key. What changed? Also, this topic interests me as I get "yippy" on short sided chips.

Tanner

The master key really has nothing to do with the yips; it's just a way of swinging the club.  Tanner, this is a topic you probably don't really know about, ie. haven't experienced it first hand, and my advice is to stay away from it.  For some it can be contagious and I'm serious about this.  Always appreciate your good posts.

By the way, the master key is working well for me.  I have no doubt that if I didn't have all these yips I would be right around scratch and the master key has been a great source of pleasure and swing results.

#10 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

 kellygreen, on 06 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

 juliette91, on 04 November 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I don't have them all the time while playing, or I'd quit for sure, but at least 4-5x/round and with chipping too, causing
me to lose on average 2-8 strokes/round depending upon penalty strokes atttached to these uncontrollable twitches.

Please don't get involved in this topic and offer any advice (for your own good) unless you've been there (and I hope, done that)

Tks!

About 12 years ago I struggled with a case of the driver yips that nearly ran me out of the game.   I could hit all my clubs fine on the range...but the moment I stepped out onto the course, I would top any wood club that I tried to tee up and hit. I went from a player who could regularly threaten 80, to one who couldn't break 110 with a hammer...and was terrified of any tee box that was fronted by water or wild terrain.

So, yes...I've been there.

IMO...of all the things you've proposed in your other posts....MEDITATION is probably the most effective treatment that is specifically "yip" related.
In my experience the "yips" are NOT a physical problem. They are a physical manifestation of uncontrolled Fear and a self-perpetuating pattern of negative thinking and negative expectation.  IOW, there are no "yippy hands"...there are YIPPY MINDS that are giving conflicted and unclear instructions to the hands.

The mind communicates what it wants the body to do in IMAGES...not words.  So if you stand over a drive...and genuinely fear/expect to top it...your mind will give your body instructions to top it.  Regardless of what your THINKING mind wants.

So the key to getting the yips under-control is about BREAKING the pattern of negative thinking, negative images, and negative expectations that keep it in place.   Getting control of your mind through meditation is helpful...but not necessary.  But you HAVE to clear your mind of the negativity and focus on what you WANT to have happen with the shot...and not what you FEAR MIGHT happen.

Changing something physical is often helpful...in that it helps to break up the habits and sensations that help reinforce the negative mental pattern.  In my case, it was changing an overly upright/steep swing plane that lead to the problems hitting wood clubs that triggered my bout of the driver yips.   After that, getting a handle on the yips is about controlling your mind...and building up an new experiences of positive outcomes to replace the negative one's you've built up.

So...

1.  Stop looking for a purely physical cause....you aren't going to find one.

2. Change something physical...but only as an additional means of breaking up the negative mental habits that reinforce the yips.

3. DISCIPLINE YOUR MIND.  Build up a mental routine that clearly visualizes and emphasizes the desired outcome...rather than letting a feared one dominate your mind. If a fearful though enters your mind while standing over a shot....you are not committed to the shot.  Back away...start over again.   Practice this mental routine like you practice your physical skills.

Do this...and your mind will once again give CLEAR (rather than fearfully conflicted) instructions to your body...and you'll start to hit good shots again.  Take time to savor those good shots, so you have them to draw upon as part of your mental routine.

4. Study the mental game of golf.

Kellygreen, thank you for the time, effort and sentiment you put into your post.  It's a passionate subject with anyone who has experienced them.  I agree about meditation and pretty much most of what you wrote.  Using this clearkey from the website of the same name (Carey Mumford, resident guru) in combination with meditation might lead to an improvement.  Thanks again!


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#11 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:39 PM

 MadGolfer76, on 06 November 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

juliette91, are you in Maine? I would be happy to help in any way I can.

Thank you for you offer.  No, I only ordered the mirror box from someone in Bangor, found him through the internet.  I do like Maine though!  Thanks again for your offer.

#12 juliette91

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:43 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 06 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Full swing yips are usually one of two things.  Upper and lower body completely out of sync in back swing....or rhythm is completely off...sometimes both.

Would have to see your swing.

That sounds authoritative Monte, and I will send you a video of my swing if you like, but the out of sync part, the rhythm completely off part only really occurs when the yip occurs.  Up until that point
my swing is pretty darn good for someone my age.  At least the teaching pro I work with says that.  (When he puts the video of my swing on the screen in a slow motion side by side with a good touring pro's swing I cringe.)

Thanks for weighing in!

#13 Tanner25

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

 juliette91, on 06 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

 Tanner25, on 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Juliette,

I was suprised to see this post as previously you demonstrated confidence using the Master Key. What changed? Also, this topic interests me as I get "yippy" on short sided chips.

Tanner

The master key really has nothing to do with the yips; it's just a way of swinging the club.  Tanner, this is a topic you probably don't really know about, ie. haven't experienced it first hand, and my advice is to stay away from it.  For some it can be contagious and I'm serious about this.  Always appreciate your good posts.

Ok, good to know Juliette. As I said, I am close to a yipping crisis with my chips. Do you have any tips in this area?

Tanner

#14 Gbyeball

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:09 AM

Kelly Green

I can relate very well to your message of a positive mental direction coupled with a directed swing thought to help overcome the full swing yips. I have had them in the past but not as bad as others have but in some areas it was horrible.

It became apparent to me that I had a problem when I would FLINCH while watching others make a practice swing when I thought they were actually going to hit a shot. This even happened when I was watching golf on TV, anticipating impact when it did not occur and the subsequent flinch showed I had a problem.

For the most part I have combined the mental and physical approach you talked about. I picture the shot in my mind  and I feel relaxed over the ball because it is going to be a fade that that is my go to shot. I then make two or three practice swings feeling the fade, then pull the trigger. As you described the process of giving clear postive mental images and commands coupled with a specific outcome or direction for the physical swing itself ie. hit a fade does work for me.

Thanks to the OP and other posters for bringing it to light and I sometimes felt like I had a dirty little secret or flaw that I didn't want anyone to know about.
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#15 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

 juliette91, on 06 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

 MonteScheinblum, on 06 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Full swing yips are usually one of two things.  Upper and lower body completely out of sync in back swing....or rhythm is completely off...sometimes both.

Would have to see your swing.

That sounds authoritative Monte, and I will send you a video of my swing if you like, but the out of sync part, the rhythm completely off part only really occurs when the yip occurs.  Up until that point
my swing is pretty darn good for someone my age.  At least the teaching pro I work with says that.  (When he puts the video of my swing on the screen in a slow motion side by side with a good touring pro's swing I cringe.)

Thanks for weighing in!
Let's take a look.

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#16 juliette91

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:28 PM

 Tanner25, on 06 November 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

 juliette91, on 06 November 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

 Tanner25, on 06 November 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Juliette,

I was suprised to see this post as previously you demonstrated confidence using the Master Key. What changed? Also, this topic interests me as I get "yippy" on short sided chips.

Tanner

The master key really has nothing to do with the yips; it's just a way of swinging the club.  Tanner, this is a topic you probably don't really know about, ie. haven't experienced it first hand, and my advice is to stay away from it.  For some it can be contagious and I'm serious about this.  Always appreciate your good posts.

Ok, good to know Juliette. As I said, I am close to a yipping crisis with my chips. Do you have any tips in this area?

Tanner

The advice I have is only if you are truly twitching your hand(s) at impact.  If you feel this uncontrollable twitch that sends the ball in
directions unplanned or anything approaching this I'll give you some advice, but "close" isn't there yet.  Be thankful!

#17 juliette91

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

 Gbyeball, on 07 November 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Kelly Green

I can relate very well to your message of a positive mental direction coupled with a directed swing thought to help overcome the full swing yips. I have had them in the past but not as bad as others have but in some areas it was horrible.

It became apparent to me that I had a problem when I would FLINCH while watching others make a practice swing when I thought they were actually going to hit a shot. This even happened when I was watching golf on TV, anticipating impact when it did not occur and the subsequent flinch showed I had a problem.

For the most part I have combined the mental and physical approach you talked about. I picture the shot in my mind  and I feel relaxed over the ball because it is going to be a fade that that is my go to shot. I then make two or three practice swings feeling the fade, then pull the trigger. As you described the process of giving clear postive mental images and commands coupled with a specific outcome or direction for the physical swing itself ie. hit a fade does work for me.

Thanks to the OP and other posters for bringing it to light and I sometimes felt like I had a dirty little secret or flaw that I didn't want anyone to know about.

Whatever works and sounds like you've found something.  Generally what you're doing is not enough to overcome the yips---this from reading many articles, treatises and chapters within books about the yips.  That said, the calming of the mind changes the pressure of the situation and defuses the yip bomb.

#18 juliette91

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:32 PM

 MonteScheinblum, on 07 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

 juliette91, on 06 November 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

 MonteScheinblum, on 06 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Full swing yips are usually one of two things.  Upper and lower body completely out of sync in back swing....or rhythm is completely off...sometimes both.

Would have to see your swing.

That sounds authoritative Monte, and I will send you a video of my swing if you like, but the out of sync part, the rhythm completely off part only really occurs when the yip occurs.  Up until that point
my swing is pretty darn good for someone my age.  At least the teaching pro I work with says that.  (When he puts the video of my swing on the screen in a slow motion side by side with a good touring pro's swing I cringe.)

Thanks for weighing in!
Let's take a look.

Ok, I'll get one this weekend or early next week and send it to you.  Tks!

#19 juliette91

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:09 PM

Progress Report, day 4.

Continued with meditation and another 32 ball session with the clearkey (that's 4 sessions now).  Have not tried the mirror box or sole vibration as described.  Played 18 holes today.
No full swing or chipping yips on the front 9 and I shot 1 under.  Back nine was deplorable as I yipped continuously all tee shots and a few fairway shots, and horrors I started yipping the chip
shots.  Finished the 9 but shot 53 (including 2 birdies).  So you can see that once they've set in it's almost always a disaster.

May not have even hit rock bottom yet and I will continue with what I'm doing to report to you all.

#20 Mickey75

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

I have struggled with this problem for 4 years now.  Went from a scratch golfer to 13 handicap.  Never manifested itself on the range where to this day I can hit balls perfectly for hours.  It happens as soon as I step on the golf course to play actual holes.  I used to have a short compact swing that produced a low draw.  With the onset of the full swing yips my swing went WAY past parallel with a weak fade.  The harder I tried to compact my swing the longer it became - so much so that I was able to see the clubhead over my left shoulder pointing towards the ground!   I read a lot, as I'm sure you have, including the various techniques many of which I tried (including hypnotism).  Nothing helped.  After more research I located a pro (Jim Waldron from Portland, OR) who seemed to have a solid grasp of the problem.  I spent time with him working on the problem and now my game has  finally started to turn around.  The main two changes were 1.  I went to a ten finger (baseball) grip from my overlap and 2.  I embraced the focal point approach (best explained at:  http://www.balancepo...f.com/index.php).  My focal point is to keep pressure between my forearms, wrists and biceps throughout the swing.  This creates a solid triangle and helps prevent the past parallel swing.    There is only room for one focal point - the brain can't keep multiple swing thoughts in order during the small fraction of time it takes to make a golf swing.  The focal point simplifies the process immensely.  This is a mental not physical problem - on that I think we can all agree.  The solution is to focus your mind and judge the success of your swing solely based on the quality of maintaining the focal point, not on the end result.  My handicap is back in single digits.  I still have more work to do but the focal point approach has allowed me to enjoy the game again, and to see some real results, so it's worth considering imho.


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#21 juliette91

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:53 PM

 Mickey75, on 08 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I have struggled with this problem for 4 years now.  Went from a scratch golfer to 13 handicap.  Never manifested itself on the range where to this day I can hit balls perfectly for hours.  It happens as soon as I step on the golf course to play actual holes.  I used to have a short compact swing that produced a low draw.  With the onset of the full swing yips my swing went WAY past parallel with a weak fade.  The harder I tried to compact my swing the longer it became - so much so that I was able to see the clubhead over my left shoulder pointing towards the ground!   I read a lot, as I'm sure you have, including the various techniques many of which I tried (including hypnotism).  Nothing helped.  After more research I located a pro (Jim Waldron from Portland, OR) who seemed to have a solid grasp of the problem.  I spent time with him working on the problem and now my game has  finally started to turn around.  The main two changes were 1.  I went to a ten finger (baseball) grip from my overlap and 2.  I embraced the focal point approach (best explained at:  http://www.balancepo...f.com/index.php).  My focal point is to keep pressure between my forearms, wrists and biceps throughout the swing.  This creates a solid triangle and helps prevent the past parallel swing.    There is only room for one focal point - the brain can't keep multiple swing thoughts in order during the small fraction of time it takes to make a golf swing.  The focal point simplifies the process immensely.  This is a mental not physical problem - on that I think we can all agree.  The solution is to focus your mind and judge the success of your swing solely based on the quality of maintaining the focal point, not on the end result.  My handicap is back in single digits.  I still have more work to do but the focal point approach has allowed me to enjoy the game again, and to see some real results, so it's worth considering imho.

Mickey, are you saying that your swelling handicap was due to the yips, that unfathomably disgusting uncontrollable physical twitch at impact? or are you saying you just had some mechanical flaws in your swing straightened out a bit by what you described?

Tks for responding!

#22 juliette91

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

mickey, understand now, no need to reply.  Describe this triangle you're talking about, ok?  Paint me a picture of how it looks===or feels.

Tks.

#23 Mickey75

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:33 PM

 juliette91, on 08 November 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

 Mickey75, on 08 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I have struggled with this problem for 4 years now.  Went from a scratch golfer to 13 handicap.  Never manifested itself on the range where to this day I can hit balls perfectly for hours.  It happens as soon as I step on the golf course to play actual holes.  I used to have a short compact swing that produced a low draw.  With the onset of the full swing yips my swing went WAY past parallel with a weak fade.  The harder I tried to compact my swing the longer it became - so much so that I was able to see the clubhead over my left shoulder pointing towards the ground!   I read a lot, as I'm sure you have, including the various techniques many of which I tried (including hypnotism).  Nothing helped.  After more research I located a pro (Jim Waldron from Portland, OR) who seemed to have a solid grasp of the problem.  I spent time with him working on the problem and now my game has  finally started to turn around.  The main two changes were 1.  I went to a ten finger (baseball) grip from my overlap and 2.  I embraced the focal point approach (best explained at:  http://www.balancepo...f.com/index.php).  My focal point is to keep pressure between my forearms, wrists and biceps throughout the swing.  This creates a solid triangle and helps prevent the past parallel swing.    There is only room for one focal point - the brain can't keep multiple swing thoughts in order during the small fraction of time it takes to make a golf swing.  The focal point simplifies the process immensely.  This is a mental not physical problem - on that I think we can all agree.  The solution is to focus your mind and judge the success of your swing solely based on the quality of maintaining the focal point, not on the end result.  My handicap is back in single digits.  I still have more work to do but the focal point approach has allowed me to enjoy the game again, and to see some real results, so it's worth considering imho.

Mickey, are you saying that your swelling handicap was due to the yips, that unfathomably disgusting uncontrollable physical twitch at impact? or are you saying you just had some mechanical flaws in your swing straightened out a bit by what you described?

Tks for responding!
It was definitely the full swing yips!  I'm mechanically sound on the range, it's just that the yip takes over when I'm on the course.  It is pernicious to be sure!

#24 Mickey75

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

 juliette91, on 09 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

mickey, understand now, no need to reply.  Describe this triangle you're talking about, ok?  Paint me a picture of how it looks===or feels.

Tks.
Think of slight pressure between (a) your two wrists  (b) your two elbows and © your two biceps.  This consistent pressure across these three points locks in the triangle and prevents a breakdown in the wrists or elbows which are meaningful contributors to the yip.  Does this make sense to you?  More important is the focus on this sole "focal point" and only judging the swing based on the quality of the keeping pressure in the triangle not on whether the yip is there or what the result happens to be.  One needs to remove oneself from the process and the result and instead focus solely on one, clear focal point to remove the physical obstacles to making a swing.

#25 juliette91

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

 Mickey75, on 09 November 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

 juliette91, on 09 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

mickey, understand now, no need to reply.  Describe this triangle you're talking about, ok?  Paint me a picture of how it looks===or feels.

Tks.
Think of slight pressure between (a) your two wrists  (b) your two elbows and © your two biceps.  This consistent pressure across these three points locks in the triangle and prevents a breakdown in the wrists or elbows which are meaningful contributors to the yip.  Does this make sense to you?  More important is the focus on this sole "focal point" and only judging the swing based on the quality of the keeping pressure in the triangle not on whether the yip is there or what the result happens to be.  One needs to remove oneself from the process and the result and instead focus solely on one, clear focal point to remove the physical obstacles to making a swing.

Yes it makes sense and thanks for explaining it to me.  The idea of putting tension ("keeping pressure" as you say) on those areas would tend to limit distance a bit but if that is a successful way to
overcome this malady then who cares.  Personally I'd rather be a 15 handicapper yip free than a 4 hcp'r with yip tendencies to shoot 110.  Less stressful and I'd say much more enjoyable.


#26 Jim Waldron

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

I have found that an eclectic approach works best when working with a student who has the full swing yips. There are two main avenues to cure or near-cure of the yips. Dealing with the root cause, which is always about emotion linked to self-esteem and with fear of failure and lack of confidence. In othe words, a ton of internal emotional pressure is really builiding up to a boiling point in the yipper's psyche, just waiting for a trigger to light the fire. Usually just one badly missed shot or the imagination picturing a badly missed shot is that trigger.  The second avenue is Inhibition of the yip circuit by using a different piece of mechanics ( creates new pathway between brain and body) and by clear and strong mental focus, the "focal point" technique mentioned earlier in this thread.

#27 Cmartingolf

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:45 AM

I had a full swing yipper in today. He was a former college player a d competitive player in his state tour events. Like many, aim is a problem , in that Golfers like to aim straight on "train tracks" and hit the ball "down the middle. Way too hard to "hit it straight." I showed this fellow how to aim for a draw or fade and be performed well on the course. Aiming and using a buffer to shape shots is a big deal if you get the affliction.

#28 juliette91

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

 Cmartingolf, on 13 November 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

I had a full swing yipper in today. He was a former college player a d competitive player in his state tour events. Like many, aim is a problem , in that Golfers like to aim straight on "train tracks" and hit the ball "down the middle. Way too hard to "hit it straight." I showed this fellow how to aim for a draw or fade and be performed well on the course. Aiming and using a buffer to shape shots is a big deal if you get the affliction.

Martin, what does "buffer" mean in the context you used it?  If you mean playing for a large draw or large fade/slice I can relate to that.  The only swing I can put on the ball when the full yips are in bloom is a big distance eating slice.  Not sure why I can do that yip free but I can.  Just this year in our club championship I got them full bore in the second round and started playing for a very big slice off the tee and less with each succeeding club.  It's the part two of what Jim Waldron said, scrambling up the brain/body yip connection with a very different swing.

#29 Gbyeball

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

 Cmartingolf, on 13 November 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

I had a full swing yipper in today. He was a former college player a d competitive player in his state tour events. Like many, aim is a problem , in that Golfers like to aim straight on "train tracks" and hit the ball "down the middle. Way too hard to "hit it straight." I showed this fellow how to aim for a draw or fade and be performed well on the course. Aiming and using a buffer to shape shots is a big deal if you get the affliction.
  

This is the very thing that helped me as I had stated earlier in this thread. It may just come down to bein focused on the process of making a fade swing instead of hitting to a target. I really like your use of the word buffer. If we agree yips are mentally driven then replacing an exact, precise target with the BUFFERING affect of starting the ball off or away from the flag then fading or drawing it would seem to take the pressure off.
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#30 blindwillie

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

The study and practice of mindfulness and acceptance has been successful with some of my clients who suffer from the yips. The yips can be triggered by a thought you have during your swing.  Mindfulness practice will allow such a thought to come and go without the body feeling it must react.  The practice is quite helpful with golf.  While there really is no time to consciously process thoughts in the middle of our swing, those who have mastered mindfulness are able to complete this task unconsciously.


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