
Graphite Design makes a bad move closing its doors
#181
Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

#183
Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:12 AM
hound25, on 08 November 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:
Stetson, on 08 November 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:
Tiger, Hunter, Ryo etc
I didn't say that. I said that one company's tour rep is having all his staffers fit into something other than GDI. As a matter of fact, they just finished a bend profile test on the BB to find a suitable replacement! Not sure if other manufacturers will follow suit or not.
So out of curiosity, what shaft matched (or close enough) the BB bend profile? I have no idea on the specs of the shaft, I don't know if the BB would fit me or not, but I see raving reviews about it on this site, so I'm curious as to what would stack up with it.
#184
Posted 09 November 2012 - 01:28 AM
golfware, on 08 November 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:
GDI Tour AD DI, on 03 November 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:
I will still be checking out GOLFWRX.com daily, the best golf website on the internet.
Keep up the great work Team GolfWrx!!
Erik
golfware, on 02 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:
Oh yeah. And it'll be a HUGE door too. Erik, you're too good for anything less!
And the next time you're up in SF, your round at TPC Harding Park is on me! All the best amigo!
Im ready for some golf at TPC Harding Park!!
All the best!!
EB
#186
Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:11 PM
Pepperturbo, on 09 November 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
J13, on 08 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:
Pepperturbo, on 08 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:
J13, on 08 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:
The PGA tour gold standard, as you so aptly put it, is NOT a money maker for any OEM shaft or even equipment company's. Remember, much of a tour presents has to do with give-a-ways and prototype testing. No publicity to speak of.... A decent tour presents means every tour stop, both sides of the pond, plus the Asian tour. NOT just the US.... then factor in cost of staff and inventory, travel expenses, etc, its not a gold standard like you think.
I understand the PGA is not a moneymaker in a sense that players aren't paying a dime but many people take notice to what the pro's are using. Example Diamana whiteboard. GD TOUR ad di was on that path in the US. I just hope they work a great deal with a US distributor but it doesn't look like they give a crap about the US market. Atleast not until the Asian economy tanks and people aren't paying $2000 for a set of irons and $500 for shafts.
The only way people take notice of shafts is via photo's, or noticing what a touring pro uses while on the range; other option is in a magazine. Also, keep in mind, many pro contracts stipulate, if they are not playing the shaft in their contract, it's painted to look as though it is. So, knowing is at best, a guess.
That said, there are not enough people buying exotic shafts to warrant thorough tour coverage on the PGA, least as I measure it. Furthermore, I do NOT believe pulling out of the US market suggests GDI doesn't care about the market; its a business decision, not personal.
I don't believe the shafts you mention were ever on a great revenue path either. During all my golf travels, match play competitions at multiple clubs, I can count on two hands, the number of people I've seen using exotic or prototype shafts, and those were low-single/scratch and + players. Most golfers have "made for...", or buy exotic shafts n the secondary used market. If Golfwrx threads suggest anything, that's probably the case here as well. At my last upscale club of 400+ members with 30% single digit golfers and 4 PGA touring pros in residence, only a six or eight members used "aftermarket" exotic shafts. I knew that because I was privy to pro shop custom ordering. I have owned Red, White and Blueboard shafts since they were first introduced; not because I saw them at a PGA event, but though product advertising and a tour friend told me at my club. I currently have a Whiteboard in my G20, and Blueboard in 3wd. My point in sharing that is it reflects usage of exotic shafts.
From my source, I understand individual representation is in the process of being setup.
#187
Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:26 PM
#188
Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:42 PM
Pepperturbo, on 09 November 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:
J13, on 08 November 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:
Pepperturbo, on 08 November 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:
J13, on 08 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:
The PGA tour gold standard, as you so aptly put it, is NOT a money maker for any OEM shaft or even equipment company's. Remember, much of a tour presents has to do with give-a-ways and prototype testing. No publicity to speak of.... A decent tour presents means every tour stop, both sides of the pond, plus the Asian tour. NOT just the US.... then factor in cost of staff and inventory, travel expenses, etc, its not a gold standard like you think.
I understand the PGA is not a moneymaker in a sense that players aren't paying a dime but many people take notice to what the pro's are using. Example Diamana whiteboard. GD TOUR ad di was on that path in the US. I just hope they work a great deal with a US distributor but it doesn't look like they give a crap about the US market. Atleast not until the Asian economy tanks and people aren't paying $2000 for a set of irons and $500 for shafts.
The only way people take notice of shafts is via photo's, or noticing what a touring pro uses while on the range; other option is in a magazine. Also, keep in mind, many pro contracts stipulate, if they are not playing the shaft in their contract, it's painted to look as though it is. So, knowing is at best, a guess.
That said, there are not enough people buying exotic shafts to warrant thorough tour coverage on the PGA, least as I measure it. Furthermore, I do NOT believe pulling out of the US market suggests GDI doesn't care about the market; its a business decision, not personal.
I don't believe the shafts you mention were ever on a great revenue path either. During all my golf travels, match play competitions at multiple clubs, I can count on two hands, the number of people I've seen using exotic or prototype shafts, and those were low-single/scratch and + players. Most golfers have "made for...", or buy exotic shafts n the secondary used market. If Golfwrx threads suggest anything, that's probably the case here as well. At my last upscale club of 400+ members with 30% single digit golfers and 4 PGA touring pros in residence, only a six or eight members used "aftermarket" exotic shafts. I knew that because I was privy to pro shop custom ordering. I have owned Red, White and Blueboard shafts since they were first introduced; not because I saw them at a PGA event, but though product advertising and a tour friend told me at my club. I currently have a Whiteboard in my G20, and Blueboard in 3wd. My point in sharing that is it reflects usage of exotic shafts.
From my source, I understand individual representation is in the process of being setup.
Pepper I understand what your saying but even if people are buying the exotics in the used market those shafts were all new at one point and were paid for. As for what you see on the course I too play in a lot of state and USGA competitions and most players have exotic shafts. At my club most of the players under a 5 or 6 hcp have exotics that they order through the proshop typically from the manufacturer who made the club. My questions is with GD moving back over sea's is that going to change what OEM's will carry their shaft? Will demand for the shaft change if less and less pro's are using it?
Now that I think about it I guess my position is also being influenced by long term projections for the shaft market. As specs like MAX COR and head size have been reached the next era is really going to come down to the engine (the shaft). I see the market only growing as time goes on which again is why I see GD's lack of tour presence not their move back to japan as a bad call.
Edited by J13, 11 November 2012 - 12:44 PM.
#189
Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:40 PM
J13, on 11 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:
Driver technology has essentially been maxed out for 4-5 years already. Since the USGA capped CC size, COR/CT, and driver length, there is very little that can now be done to a modern driver to increase peak distance.
The OEMs are getting ready to push the 47" length on drivers and will only have one more inch left to market their "longer" clubs. It's why each generation of clubs is going lighter in last ditch effort to pick up clubhead speed. Unfortunately, there is a point of diminishing returns on total weight.
The bad news for shaft manufacturers is that shafts designed in the 90s, like the Speeder 757 are still very relevant. The only realistic opportunity a premium maker has is to try to make custom profiles for each golfer's swing. But you'd be looking at R&D in the millions and a shaft that would go well into the thousands of dollars range. Otherwise, there is no distance to be had.
The newest shaft I've bought is Project X graphite, which is now 3-4 years old. My fallback shaft is still Diamana Whiteboard. I have yet to see any modern shafts that perform as well as these.
#192
Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:44 PM
Lesmond, on 09 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:
#193
Posted 12 November 2012 - 01:04 PM
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1352477613' post='5912085']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1352426060' post='5910267']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1352424059' post='5910121']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1352422785' post='5910029']
The gold standard in golf is the PGA TOUR and that's not changing anytime soon so what possible reason could they have for not having a few tour reps to satisfy the demand? Anyone come up with a good reason? Honestly I can't. For distribution I can see how moving things back to Japan makes sense but pulling tour presence, just don't see the logic.
[/quote]
The PGA tour gold standard, as you so aptly put it, is NOT a money maker for any OEM shaft or even equipment company's. Remember, much of a tour presents has to do with give-a-ways and prototype testing. No publicity to speak of.... A decent tour presents means every tour stop, both sides of the pond, plus the Asian tour. NOT just the US.... then factor in cost of staff and inventory, travel expenses, etc, its not a gold standard like you think.
[/quote]
I understand the PGA is not a moneymaker in a sense that players aren't paying a dime but many people take notice to what the pro's are using. Example Diamana whiteboard. GD TOUR ad di was on that path in the US. I just hope they work a great deal with a US distributor but it doesn't look like they give a crap about the US market. Atleast not until the Asian economy tanks and people aren't paying $2000 for a set of irons and $500 for shafts.
[/quote]
The only way people take notice of shafts is via photo's, or noticing what a touring pro uses while on the range; other option is in a magazine. Also, keep in mind, many pro contracts stipulate, if they are not playing the shaft in their contract, it's painted to look as though it is. So, knowing is at best, a guess.
That said, there are not enough people buying exotic shafts to warrant thorough tour coverage on the PGA, least as I measure it. Furthermore, I do NOT believe pulling out of the US market suggests GDI doesn't care about the market; its a business decision, not personal.
I don't believe the shafts you mention were ever on a great revenue path either. During all my golf travels, match play competitions at multiple clubs, I can count on two hands, the number of people I've seen using exotic or prototype shafts, and those were low-single/scratch and + players. Most golfers have "made for...", or buy exotic shafts n the secondary used market. If Golfwrx threads suggest anything, that's probably the case here as well. At my last upscale club of 400+ members with 30% single digit golfers and 4 PGA touring pros in residence, only a six or eight members used "aftermarket" exotic shafts. I knew that because I was privy to pro shop custom ordering. I have owned Red, White and Blueboard shafts since they were first introduced; not because I saw them at a PGA event, but though product advertising and a tour friend told me at my club. I currently have a Whiteboard in my G20, and Blueboard in 3wd. My point in sharing that is it reflects usage of exotic shafts.
From my source, I understand individual representation is in the process of being setup.
[/quote]
Pepper I understand what your saying but even if people are buying the exotics in the used market those shafts were all new at one point and were paid for. As for what you see on the course I too play in a lot of state and USGA competitions and most players have exotic shafts. At my club most of the players under a 5 or 6 hcp have exotics that they order through the proshop typically from the manufacturer who made the club. My questions is with GD moving back over sea's is that going to change what OEM's will carry their shaft? Will demand for the shaft change if less and less pro's are using it?
Now that I think about it I guess my position is also being influenced by long term projections for the shaft market. As specs like MAX COR and head size have been reached the next era is really going to come down to the engine (the shaft). I see the market only growing as time goes on which again is why I see GD's lack of tour presence not their move back to japan as a bad call.
[/quote]
First, I do NOT believe less pros will be using GDI "if" they are having success with the shaft, and the same is true for better amateurs with $300 to spend on a shaft. Besides, their products will still be available stateside, only through distributors. I do find it hard to believe that that many at your club use GDI either. It wasn't all that popular, except for there lesser priced shafts, at either of my clubs. The US problem is their exotic shafts are too ($300-450) dam expensive. There's not a big market for that grade of shaft. Again, you should look at GDI's bigger picture, not so much what you think regarding access. I think they made the right decision, and wouldn't be surprised if more Asian based manufactures don't follow suite.
#194
Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:39 PM
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1352655766' post='5918963']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1352477613' post='5912085']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1352426060' post='5910267']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1352424059' post='5910121']
[quote name='J13' timestamp='1352422785' post='5910029']
The gold standard in golf is the PGA TOUR and that's not changing anytime soon so what possible reason could they have for not having a few tour reps to satisfy the demand? Anyone come up with a good reason? Honestly I can't. For distribution I can see how moving things back to Japan makes sense but pulling tour presence, just don't see the logic.
[/quote]
The PGA tour gold standard, as you so aptly put it, is NOT a money maker for any OEM shaft or even equipment company's. Remember, much of a tour presents has to do with give-a-ways and prototype testing. No publicity to speak of.... A decent tour presents means every tour stop, both sides of the pond, plus the Asian tour. NOT just the US.... then factor in cost of staff and inventory, travel expenses, etc, its not a gold standard like you think.
[/quote]
I understand the PGA is not a moneymaker in a sense that players aren't paying a dime but many people take notice to what the pro's are using. Example Diamana whiteboard. GD TOUR ad di was on that path in the US. I just hope they work a great deal with a US distributor but it doesn't look like they give a crap about the US market. Atleast not until the Asian economy tanks and people aren't paying $2000 for a set of irons and $500 for shafts.
[/quote]
The only way people take notice of shafts is via photo's, or noticing what a touring pro uses while on the range; other option is in a magazine. Also, keep in mind, many pro contracts stipulate, if they are not playing the shaft in their contract, it's painted to look as though it is. So, knowing is at best, a guess.
That said, there are not enough people buying exotic shafts to warrant thorough tour coverage on the PGA, least as I measure it. Furthermore, I do NOT believe pulling out of the US market suggests GDI doesn't care about the market; its a business decision, not personal.
I don't believe the shafts you mention were ever on a great revenue path either. During all my golf travels, match play competitions at multiple clubs, I can count on two hands, the number of people I've seen using exotic or prototype shafts, and those were low-single/scratch and + players. Most golfers have "made for...", or buy exotic shafts n the secondary used market. If Golfwrx threads suggest anything, that's probably the case here as well. At my last upscale club of 400+ members with 30% single digit golfers and 4 PGA touring pros in residence, only a six or eight members used "aftermarket" exotic shafts. I knew that because I was privy to pro shop custom ordering. I have owned Red, White and Blueboard shafts since they were first introduced; not because I saw them at a PGA event, but though product advertising and a tour friend told me at my club. I currently have a Whiteboard in my G20, and Blueboard in 3wd. My point in sharing that is it reflects usage of exotic shafts.
From my source, I understand individual representation is in the process of being setup.
[/quote]
Pepper I understand what your saying but even if people are buying the exotics in the used market those shafts were all new at one point and were paid for. As for what you see on the course I too play in a lot of state and USGA competitions and most players have exotic shafts. At my club most of the players under a 5 or 6 hcp have exotics that they order through the proshop typically from the manufacturer who made the club. My questions is with GD moving back over sea's is that going to change what OEM's will carry their shaft? Will demand for the shaft change if less and less pro's are using it?
Now that I think about it I guess my position is also being influenced by long term projections for the shaft market. As specs like MAX COR and head size have been reached the next era is really going to come down to the engine (the shaft). I see the market only growing as time goes on which again is why I see GD's lack of tour presence not their move back to japan as a bad call.
[/quote]
First, I do NOT believe less pros will be using GDI "if" they are having success with the shaft, and the same is true for better amateurs with $300 to spend on a shaft. Besides, their products will still be available stateside, only through distributors. I do find it hard to believe that that many at your club use GDI either. It wasn't all that popular, except for there lesser priced shafts, at either of my clubs. The US problem is their exotic shafts are too ($300-450) dam expensive. There's not a big market for that grade of shaft. Again, you should look at GDI's bigger picture, not so much what you think regarding access. I think they made the right decision, and wouldn't be surprised if more Asian based manufactures don't follow suite.
[/quote]
Well Robo who is pretty close with the Cobra boys say they are changing out pro's shafts to fit them into something else then I believe him. As for my club I never said it was GD shafts just exotics. Most play Diamana or Aldila RIP again because they see it on TV. I've been playing the GD TOUR AD DI and BB and a few people have picked them up after hitting mine. But I completely agree they priced themselves out of the market in a lot of players eyes.
#195
Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:16 AM

#196
Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:02 AM
The GDI team are great because they offer individualized and custom service to guys that fully appreciate it. They however are not as concerned with margins and profits (not their fault).....and mass movement of product. The next company will because that is how the separate company will make money.
Make or break time in terms of getting the brand name into the minds of the 90%.




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