287 replies to this topic

[nbg352]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355178751' post='6048015']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355166381' post='6047033']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355156928' post='6046281']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355155223' post='6046151']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355154217' post='6046065']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355151591' post='6045885']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355143355' post='6045489']
Somebody has an unhealthy interest... doesn't take a genius to see it either...
[/quote]

In the topic, perhaps.

In you?  In your dreams.

I find you about as compelling as an ill-mannered 10 year old.
[/quote]
And yet there you are again...

If you spent more time practicing instead of chasing my posts then you might break 80.
[/quote]

Yawn.

I broke 80 over 12 years ago....and currently shoot in the mid-70s.  

Like I said...an ill-mannered 10 year-old.
[/quote]
Funny - not what you said recently...
[/quote]

Clearly you were not paying attention, but that's no surprise.
[/quote]
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354902983' post='6033641']
I quickly went from a player who regularly threatened 80 (and once shot a 75), to one that couldn't break 110 with a hammer.  
[/quote]
That 75 must have been SO exciting. There are other posts of yours where you state that anchoring does provide an advantage and that it forces a 'correct' stroke, which goes well with your other assertions. Genius, mastered his putting stroke in 2 days ( although the full swing took him 6 months)... Seriously can't be arsed any more. Utter ****. Lol
[/quote]
You're doing what you do best, I see, taking another's words out of context and doing a little stalking on your own.Such a shame you feel the need  to discredit anyone who gets ahead of you in a discussion.

[Lostball]

Normally I use a long putter anchored mid-chest.  Yesterday I used the same putter and grip but held it less than an inch off my chest-which I assume would be legal under the proposal.  None of my playing partners could tell if the putter was anchored.  It routinely touched my shirt through the entire stroke.  How are they going to enforce this rule?  I can just as easily anchor it and no one could tell.

Bottom line for me is they will only be taking my putter from my cold dead hands.  And I will likely continue to anchor it regardless of this idiotic rule, since my pals don't care and I don't play in any tournaments.

[spooky]

nbg352, on 10 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

You're doing what you do best, I see, taking another's words out of context and doing a little stalking on your own.Such a shame you feel the need  to discredit anyone who gets ahead of you in a discussion.

Yes, that's exactly what happened...  Give it up...

[spooky]

Lostball, on 10 December 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Normally I use a long putter anchored mid-chest.  Yesterday I used the same putter and grip but held it less than an inch off my chest-which I assume would be legal under the proposal.  None of my playing partners could tell if the putter was anchored.  It routinely touched my shirt through the entire stroke.  How are they going to enforce this rule?  I can just as easily anchor it and no one could tell.

Bottom line for me is they will only be taking my putter from my cold dead hands.  And I will likely continue to anchor it regardless of this idiotic rule, since my pals don't care and I don't play in any tournaments.

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for not putting in a more traditional way?

[kevcarter]

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Now that sounds reasonable!

... and fair! :-)

[kellygreen]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355178751' post='6048015']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355166381' post='6047033']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355156928' post='6046281']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355155223' post='6046151']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355154217' post='6046065']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355151591' post='6045885']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355143355' post='6045489']
Somebody has an unhealthy interest... doesn't take a genius to see it either...
[/quote]

In the topic, perhaps.

In you?  In your dreams.

I find you about as compelling as an ill-mannered 10 year old.
[/quote]
And yet there you are again...

If you spent more time practicing instead of chasing my posts then you might break 80.
[/quote]

Yawn.

I broke 80 over 12 years ago....and currently shoot in the mid-70s.  

Like I said...an ill-mannered 10 year-old.
[/quote]
Funny - not what you said recently...
[/quote]

Clearly you were not paying attention, but that's no surprise.
[/quote]
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354902983' post='6033641']
I quickly went from a player who regularly threatened 80 (and once shot a 75), to one that couldn't break 110 with a hammer.  
[/quote]
That 75 must have been SO exciting. There are other posts of yours where you state that anchoring does provide an advantage and that it forces a 'correct' stroke, which goes well with your other assertions. Genius, mastered his putting stroke in 2 days ( although the full swing took him 6 months)... Seriously can't be arsed any more. Utter ****. Lol
[/quote]

At the time it was...considering it was a personal best score by some 10 strokes.  Just like shooting a 62 is exciting to a scratch player.

Now, its an ordinary day.

Anything else you'd like to keep running your mouth about?

[kellygreen]

nbg352, on 10 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

You're doing what you do best, I see, taking another's words out of context and doing a little stalking on your own.Such a shame you feel the need  to discredit anyone who gets ahead of you in a discussion.

Some people need to make themselves feel taller by trying to stand on the backs of others.

Pity.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355178751' post='6048015']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355166381' post='6047033']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355156928' post='6046281']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355155223' post='6046151']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355154217' post='6046065']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1355151591' post='6045885']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1355143355' post='6045489']
Somebody has an unhealthy interest... doesn't take a genius to see it either...
[/quote]

In the topic, perhaps.

In you?  In your dreams.

I find you about as compelling as an ill-mannered 10 year old.
[/quote]
And yet there you are again...

If you spent more time practicing instead of chasing my posts then you might break 80.
[/quote]

Yawn.

I broke 80 over 12 years ago....and currently shoot in the mid-70s.  

Like I said...an ill-mannered 10 year-old.
[/quote]
Funny - not what you said recently...
[/quote]

Clearly you were not paying attention, but that's no surprise.
[/quote]
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354902983' post='6033641']
I quickly went from a player who regularly threatened 80 (and once shot a 75), to one that couldn't break 110 with a hammer.  
[/quote]
That 75 must have been SO exciting. There are other posts of yours where you state that anchoring does provide an advantage and that it forces a 'correct' stroke, which goes well with your other assertions. Genius, mastered his putting stroke in 2 days ( although the full swing took him 6 months)... Seriously can't be arsed any more. Utter ****. Lol
[/quote]

At the time it was...considering it was a personal best score by some 10 strokes.  Just like shooting a 62 is exciting to a scratch player.

Now, its an ordinary day.

Anything else you'd like to keep running your mouth about?

While you take out-of-context comments spanning widely disparate times in almost 20 years of golf and try to force them into a continuous, short-term narrative.....

Like I said...an ill-mannered 10 year-old.   About as mature, and not nearly as creative.

[spooky]

I can't even be bothered to quote the contradictory posts you have made, such as your statement that the anchored method forces the correct stroke, followed by telling me I am wrong to say that because it merely encourages a correct stroke and does not force it. It's just too dull.

[kellygreen]

spooky, on 11 December 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I can't even be bothered to quote the contradictory posts you have made, such as your statement that the anchored method forces the correct stroke, followed by telling me I am wrong to say that because it merely encourages a correct stroke and does not force it. It's just too dull.

Yes....things that don't fit into nice neat little boxes don't fit into the drama you want to keep going.

To those of us who have actually learned to use a belly putter, nothing I've said is contradictory in the least.


"Most people believe that they are thinking, when all they are doing is simply rearranging their prejudices."

----William James.  Father of American psychology.

[indyvai]

An interesting analogy for the professional fallout.  So the rule change forces major champions to play the game differently from the method used to win the championship.

It's similar to the Brodeur rule that the NHL adopted to limit goaltenders handling the puck... definitely affected play at the top level... all because a few guys learned to maximize play under the current / former rules...

[spooky]

It's you that keeps dragging me back in. As usual, accusing others of exactly what you are doing. Quoting others does not make you look clever (the same as you telling everyone you are a genius doesn't make you look clever - quite the opposite).

kellygreen, on 11 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

To those of us who have actually learned to use a belly putter, nothing I've said is contradictory in the least.

kellygreen, on 04 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

All that resting the butt of the club in the chest does is REMIND the golfer not to use his or her arms...and to control the stroke with the body core.  That's all.

kellygreen, on 27 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

They do give you an advantage in that they help take the hands-and-wrists (the problem in a lot of yippy putting strokes) out of the stroke and FORCE you to make a proper pendulum stroke that is controlled from the body's core.  

So all anchoring does is remind you... at the same time as forcing you... No contradiction there. Let me guess... it reminds you by forcing you... Nothing would surprise me at this point. Whatever, I really shouldn't let myself be dragged into this nonsense with the World's Most Interesting Golfer. Make your inevitable comment and then try not to give any cause for further dialogue between us.

[Lostball]

Quote

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for not putting in a more traditional way?  

My putting had become so bad with a conventional putter I was about to give up the game.  My yips were so bad I could not move the putter along the intended line at all - my left hand would just freeze or twitch mid-stroke.   The worst was when an acquaintance, a 2 handicapper, told me I was the worst putter he had ever seen - and he wasn't joking.  Out of desperation, after trying crosshand, left hand under, even left handed, I tried a long putter, and after some trial and error over a period of several months I became at least an average putter.  (In my youth I was an excellent putter).

There is zero chance I will go back to a conventional putter.  Most of the guys I play with either use or have used long putters or anchoring in some way (we are all seniors).  None of the ones I have spoken with plan on changing back at this stage of our lives.  It is just a lot more fun to be able to putt the ball without one hand shaking like a leaf.  And since I don't play in tournaments I don't care what anyone else thinks.

It just seems a lot more equitable, if they want to stop people from using long putters, to ban the use of long putters.  Just limit the putter length.  I would suggest using a simple rule: No club used on the green can exceed X".  (My rule would be no club can be used that exceeds 48").   Such a rule would at least be fair and in keeping with the limit on drivers.

[kellygreen]

spooky, on 11 December 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

It's you that keeps dragging me back in. As usual, accusing others of exactly what you are doing. Quoting others does not make you look clever (the same as you telling everyone you are a genius doesn't make you look clever - quite the opposite).

kellygreen, on 11 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

To those of us who have actually learned to use a belly putter, nothing I've said is contradictory in the least.

kellygreen, on 04 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

All that resting the butt of the club in the chest does is REMIND the golfer not to use his or her arms...and to control the stroke with the body core.  That's all.

kellygreen, on 27 July 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

They do give you an advantage in that they help take the hands-and-wrists (the problem in a lot of yippy putting strokes) out of the stroke and FORCE you to make a proper pendulum stroke that is controlled from the body's core.  

So all anchoring does is remind you... at the same time as forcing you... No contradiction there. Let me guess... it reminds you by forcing you... Nothing would surprise me at this point. Whatever, I really shouldn't let myself be dragged into this nonsense with the World's Most Interesting Golfer. Make your inevitable comment and then try not to give any cause for further dialogue between us.

Wow...you ARE a concrete thinker aren't you?

Allow me, then,  to put the dots closer together.

You keep wanting to argue this point as if the player were IMPALED upon the putter shaft.  What RESTING the butt of the club against the belly or the chest does is DISCOURAGE the player from trying to use his arms independantly from his body, and thus producing a pendulum stroke that is more controlled by the body core.  Thus producing a more consistent stroke.   Anything other than this results in a stroke that is off-line and club that does not remain stable against the body.   Thus providing the player with sensory feedback.

As I said in my earliest posts, is that the main benefit of the bellyputter is that it teaches the player what a good, consistent body-controlled, pendulum stroke feels like.  I make the same stroke every time I putt with a standard length putter....yet my stroke is perfectly legal.

However, if someone has a really, really bad case of the yips, it is STILL very much possible to flinch during the stroke...and produce a poor putt.   Or if someone is determined to fight against the design of the club and use the arms independantly from the body, it is still possible to do this.  Just not very easily.  Which is why you will still see people miss LOTS of short putts despite using a belly-putter.  

All points that are COMMON SENSE to those of us who have taken the time to work with, and learn how to use these putters.

[northgolf]

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

nbg352, on 10 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

northgolf, on 10 December 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I am all for banning anchoring.

There is precedent for rules concerning swinging the putter- the croquet method was banned (AKA, The slammin sammy rule USGA, 1968).

The rules of golf (like those of any game) are arbitrary and up to those who write them.  As far as the rules of golf are concerned, I find them equitable.

To all you who don't like the ban and want reasons for what you deem being unfairly treated, who ever told you life was fair.

Thanks Dad!  But the "life's not fair" argument goes both ways.  And how long after the croquet method was used on tour did it get banned?

Approximately one year.

Now that sounds reasonable!

The game was played with stymies a lot longer than the recent use of long anchored putters, and they arbitrarily did away with stymies.  I don't see how length of time a behavior is in use affects the arbitrary nature of the rules of games.

[indyvai]

northgolf, on 11 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

nbg352, on 10 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

northgolf, on 10 December 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I am all for banning anchoring.

There is precedent for rules concerning swinging the putter- the croquet method was banned (AKA, The slammin sammy rule USGA, 1968).

The rules of golf (like those of any game) are arbitrary and up to those who write them.  As far as the rules of golf are concerned, I find them equitable.

To all you who don't like the ban and want reasons for what you deem being unfairly treated, who ever told you life was fair.

Thanks Dad!  But the "life's not fair" argument goes both ways.  And how long after the croquet method was used on tour did it get banned?

Approximately one year.

Now that sounds reasonable!

The game was played with stymies a lot longer than the recent use of long anchored putters, and they arbitrarily did away with stymies.  I don't see how length of time a behavior is in use affects the arbitrary nature of the rules of games.

Others do see it, and that's why there are strong stances in both sides.  And then you have the... doesn't affect me so who cares... people.

[spooky]

Lostball, on 11 December 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Quote

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for not putting in a more traditional way?  

My putting had become so bad with a conventional putter I was about to give up the game.  My yips were so bad I could not move the putter along the intended line at all - my left hand would just freeze or twitch mid-stroke.   The worst was when an acquaintance, a 2 handicapper, told me I was the worst putter he had ever seen - and he wasn't joking.  Out of desperation, after trying crosshand, left hand under, even left handed, I tried a long putter, and after some trial and error over a period of several months I became at least an average putter.  (In my youth I was an excellent putter).

There is zero chance I will go back to a conventional putter.  Most of the guys I play with either use or have used long putters or anchoring in some way (we are all seniors).  None of the ones I have spoken with plan on changing back at this stage of our lives.  It is just a lot more fun to be able to putt the ball without one hand shaking like a leaf.  And since I don't play in tournaments I don't care what anyone else thinks.

It just seems a lot more equitable, if they want to stop people from using long putters, to ban the use of long putters.  Just limit the putter length.  I would suggest using a simple rule: No club used on the green can exceed X".  (My rule would be no club can be used that exceeds 48").   Such a rule would at least be fair and in keeping with the limit on drivers.

Interesting and I do feel for you. Had you tried all the various grips mentioned on here? Claw? Langer/Kuchar method?

[nbg352]

northgolf, on 11 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

nbg352, on 10 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

indyvai, on 10 December 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

northgolf, on 10 December 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I am all for banning anchoring.

There is precedent for rules concerning swinging the putter- the croquet method was banned (AKA, The slammin sammy rule USGA, 1968).

The rules of golf (like those of any game) are arbitrary and up to those who write them.  As far as the rules of golf are concerned, I find them equitable.

To all you who don't like the ban and want reasons for what you deem being unfairly treated, who ever told you life was fair.

Thanks Dad!  But the "life's not fair" argument goes both ways.  And how long after the croquet method was used on tour did it get banned?

Approximately one year.

Now that sounds reasonable!

The game was played with stymies a lot longer than the recent use of long anchored putters, and they arbitrarily did away with stymies.  I don't see how length of time a behavior is in use affects the arbitrary nature of the rules of games.

It wasn't arbitrary at all. There was a great deal of controversy regarding stymies for years, before they were banned. The pros hated them, they could be harmful to the green and they took too much time. Many thought they were unsportsmanlike and therefore  contradictory to the spirit of the game. There was very little division among players. The stymie was universally hated.