145 replies to this topic

[buzlin]

Wanted to get your opinion on a Marshall’s comments throughout my round yesterday.  At the time I wasn’t that concerned, but along the same lines as not offering unsolicited advice, or other golf etiquette faux pas , I wondered if what he said was inappropriate.

He called me out on my irons multiple times during the round (7.7 index playing MP-69s).  After he looked at my bag and asking my index, he went on a long ramble about how I shouldn’t be playing blades and gave the familiar reasons before we tee’d off.  Then midway through the round, he again stated that I was playing the wrong clubs and that “even the pros don’t play blades”, “golf is hard enough”, “you should be playing cavity backs”, etc, etc, etc….

I’ve been playing golf for 15+ years, and have a lot of reasons that I play blades (for now), and didn’t really feel like going into detail with him other than to defend myself by saying, “yeah, I know, you’re right”.   In retrospect, it really feels like he was talking trash in a friendly manner, if that makes sense.

What do you guys think? Cool or not cool? No big deal? How would you have responded?

[Hstead]

No biggie.  I would agree with him.  Make him feel all warm and fuzzy like he really knows what he is talking about.

I played 690MBs and have played blades for a long time.  I recently went through a fitting this summer where I thought for certain I would walk away with CBs or AP2s, the last club I thought I would buy was the MB.  I wouldn't have even hit it during the fitting.  But, the fitter handed me one and it flew best.  No comparison for me.  The CB was a terrible fit, I couldn't hit them consistent to save my life.  

I don't think blades are that big of a deal if you can hit the face close to the center most of the time.

[Troyefl]

I would have told him to mind his busniess after the 2nd round of comments.  I played blades and love them, but they are harder to stay consistent with. But if you're comfortible with them, then why not keep playing them.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

When you said "Called you out" I thought for a moment you meant he stood across the tee box from you with his hands hovering nervously over his six-shooters, waiting for you to draw first so he could gun you down like a 7-handicap dog. That would have been cool.

[esketores]

Telling him to STFU would not have been inappropriate. Beyond a reasonable doubt I would have.

[jahopki]

Definitely not cool, but you could issue a "you're welcome" to showing up and providing a reason for him to have a job...  You play what you like and are comfortable with; let him play what he likes and is comfortable with.  Unless he's your swing / mental / physical coach, he has no business offering unsolicited advice for (supposedly) helping you improve your scores.  In most cases, someone less than a 10 handicap isn't going to see significant improvement in scores with irons -- putting is generally where strokes are shaved at that level.

[jwrogers]

Golf wouldn't be as interesting without grouchy old marshalls giving their opinions on everything.   God bless 'em.

[boxerjoe2011]

"blades" today are nothing like blades 10 years ago, or farther back.  Hitting my 690MB's is totally different than hitting my Rac MB TP's even though both are considered blades.  I am picking up a set of 69's myself and those are even easier to hit than my Rac's.  Simply tell this old codger that you like them and to mind his own business.  You aren't planning on going on tour and he can have fun hitting his wedge woods.

[tembolo1284]

What a goober. I would have taken a 7 iron blade to his skull. With love of course.

[tembolo1284]

Wait scratch that. I woulda done it with a wedge. Don't want to dirty the irons.

[MelloYello]

If you don't have a come-back what do you think that means?

You should have some response and F-Off is certainly not the right one. You should have some legitimate answer to his comments that isn't hostile. If hostility is a response to someone's comments, then those comments probably hit home and are true. That's just ego being a defense mechanicsm.

I realize you weren't hostile, but some of the above responses are and that's just terrible. They're what's wrong with golf right now. Too many people who aren't approachable. They'd tell someone to piss off before they would offer a smile and a polite conversation. Whatever you want to say, just don't take that road. Be a nice guy and try and change this gentlemen's views on blades instead. Be a positive individual.

To me, you probably shouldn't be playing them if you can't have a nice conversation with someone who's interested. There's nice clubs and people are going to take notice of them on occassion. If you carry blades, you'd better be wiling to chat with folks about them because you'll have people ask you about them and people like the Marshall you mentioned who want to tell you their opinions outright. If you can't even give him a good reason why you bought them, you probably bought them out of some lusty desire which you're secretly embarrassed of. That only makes you human though. But, it's perfectly fair to say something like...

"...well, I'm at a point where I'd like to try them and see if I can adjust to them. I just want to experience them. I realize it's a mixed bag with who's playing what these days but I want to give them a shot before these Game Improvement companies stop making them altogether."

Edited by MelloYello, 31 October 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[bagoon316]

He sounds like a lil gnat buzzing around in your ear, just pissing you off.  It's really not his business telling you what gear you should and shouldnt be playing with.  I think I would have brushed him off the first time, though I'm a new golfer, and might have considered advice, but a low handicapper experienced golfer as yourself, I think I would have been more than annoyed, especially the second time around.

[Senna]

I wouldn't have entertained him at all, maybe answer with a "yeah" and walk away or turn my back.  I cant stand "know it all's" who feel the need to "enlighten" other people when its none of their business.

I often think back to about 7/8 years ago when i was deciding on new clubs to buy, i played for about 3 months with an old old set of wilson blades and i probably played the best golf i ever have, mishits were punished but they were few and far between.  I'm a 15 handicapper and got GI irons last year, couldn't hit them to save my life, but MP60's or CG16 tours thats a different story.
Horses for Courses.

[will227457]

your a lowish capper did you beat him?

I know you werent playing against each other, but if he shanked a shot I might have asked him how those GI clubs were working out for him.

[Kadin 25]

First time I would have ignored it, and brushed it off as he's jealous or clueless.

Second time I would've responded with "Well let's play nine holes for a hundo and find out."

[buzlin]

Mello,

Interesting point.  There is a part of me that knows that blades are "too hard" and that CBs are mechanically "superior", but, I have dropped my index 4+ strokes this season, am having a blast playing blades, hitting some of the best shots I've ever hit, and overall just love the challenge, satisfaction, feel and look.  I'm an engineer and love the technical aspects of equipment and how it all functions together to produce results, but also recognize and value the "emotional" aspects of the game beyond purely the score.

I've always thought that if I were to start playing in tournaments (ie, where score is ultimately what matters), I would move back to my MP-52s, or some other cavity back.  But for now, I play purely for fun and for the challenge of the game.

In this instance I wasn't prepared to defend my choice in equipment and backed off responding or really engaging him.  In a way, I just wanted him to go away and let me play.  With all the discussions and opinions about blades on this site, it's easy to get overly concerned about what others are thinking, so yeah, I was probably subconsciously prepared to tuck my tail and accept what he said.

[bigred90gt]

I would have politely told him "Sir, it is of no consequence to you what clubs I play, and I would appreciate you keeping your comments about my ability and thoughts regarding my club selection to yourself."

To me, it is a big deal. A marshal's place on the course is not to tell a player that they should not be playing the clubs they are playing. Unless he is a friend, and is giving you a friendly ribbing, it is not his concern. His only concern should be that you are checked in with the pro shop, on the tee at the appropriate time, following the cart rules of the course, and not holding up play on the course. Beyond that, anything he does or says is not in the capacity of a marshal, and he should be addressed the same as you would address anyone else who randomly made such comments. No need to be rude about it, the first time. If a second comment is made (which it was), and you have already told him not to worry about it (which you did not), then all bets are off. IF any comments were made after the first comment, it would have been an earful for him, AND the pro shop. Both parties would have very clearly understood my displeasure with his actions.

[MelloYello]

Look at how many of these guys can't say something nice!

Every single one wants to tell this guy to piss off.


Let me just say that if you tell every person who comments on your blades to piss off you're going to be doing it a lot and carrying blades won't be worth the time involved. People are going to ask and start conversations about them. Here's a Marshall trying to tell you that blades are probably overkill and unecessary. It's a good point and it's coming from a good place. He might be over some line in how he's doing it but man, I'm shocked at how quick people are to 'turn their backs on someone.'

That's why people are so un-social in golf right now. No one is willing to talk about what they think or believe with other people. If someone else thinks something different they must be crazy and it's your job to completely disrespect them.

Seriously...people are going to notice you if you have blades!

Just a warning to anyone who doesn't know this.

Please come up with some answer other than F-off, buddy!

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

There's a guy used to be a member of my club. Older fellow, very opinionated and very "sharing" of his opinions. One day he lectured me all the way from the tee to the green on a Par 3 about how I was making the typical high-handicapper's mistake of never taking enough club and coming up 40 feet short of the hole. He barely paused for breath for me to stroke my 40-foot putt into the hole for birdie.

I was still walking up to retrieve my ball when he picked up right where he left off with explaining it didn't matter whether I made the putt, I was still going to have to learn my lesson and take an extra club, yada, yada, yada. When he was done I said "Thanks!" just as though he had said "Nice bird" which he did not.

[MelloYello]

buzlin, on 31 October 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Mello,

Interesting point.  There is a part of me that knows that blades are "too hard" and that CBs are mechanically "superior", but, I have dropped my index 4+ strokes this season, am having a blast playing blades, hitting some of the best shots I've ever hit, and overall just love the challenge, satisfaction, feel and look.  I'm an engineer and love the technical aspects of equipment and how it all functions together to produce results, but also recognize and value the "emotional" aspects of the game beyond purely the score.

I've always thought that if I were to start playing in tournaments (ie, where score is ultimately what matters), I would move back to my MP-52s, or some other cavity back.  But for now, I play purely for fun and for the challenge of the game.

In this instance I wasn't prepared to defend my choice in equipment and backed off responding or really engaging him.  In a way, I just wanted him to go away and let me play.  With all the discussions and opinions about blades on this site, it's easy to get overly concerned about what others are thinking, so yeah, I was probably subconsciously prepared to tuck my tail and accept what he said.

Just have a polite conversation with him. Be completely honest and say what you just said to me.

Why people can't do that and instead act like this guy is pure evil is crazy to me.

Whatever blades you have are probably the coolest clubs he's seen all day...you're going to get some comment. You don't have to have a thesis on why you're good enough to play blades. Just politely smile and say you're having a blast and that you think they've really helped you figure out some subtleties in your swing.

Nothing rude about that. It's a shame more people can't just say something like that. I'm glad you didn't say something you would've regretted. That's the unfortunate side of people being so hostile. Sometimes they don't wait until getting in front of their computers to vent!

[Boogaloo_Jones]

Tell him: "instead of commenting about my clubs, why dont you go out there and tell other groups who are slowing the course down to keep pace of play.  My blades are doing their job, why dont you do yours."

[buzlin]

This discussion is very interesting because it highlights how passionate we are about our love/opinions on equipment on this site.  On the one hand, this topic could have been purely about etiquette and what is and isn't appropriate for a marshall to say to a player.  But as usual, when blades are involved, we no doubt get into talking about the why's and why nots.

When I first switched to blades, I only played them with my usual foursome.  If I went out as a single or twosome, I had my 52s in the bag, for exactly the reasons Mello ystated.  I know/knew they would draw a response, but since I hadn't ran into any comments beyond "nice clubs", or "you must be a player", and my only necessary response had been  "I'm not good, but I want to be" or "i just really like equipment".  That seemed to be satisfactory.  But in this instance, he kept up his "lecture", and admittedly I got humble and passive on my positition about the matter and accepted the "lecture" from an older gentleman.

[kevcarter]

MelloYello, on 31 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If you don't have a come-back what do you think that means?

You should have some response and F-Off is certainly not the right one. You should have some legitimate answer to his comments that isn't hostile. If hostility is a response to someone's comments, then those comments probably hit home and are true. That's just ego being a defense mechanicsm.

I agree there is no need for hostility. However, the OP also does NOT owe the starter any type of explanation.

"Mind your own business", or "F-Off" would be appropriate, but simply walking away would do as well.

Kevin

[buzlin]

Yeah, I figured it was a bit inappropriate for him to just tell me that what I was playing was wrong, especially unsolicited AND multiple times DURING the round.  I suppose it could have been different had he asked me about the blades first and started a discussion, instead of immediately telling me his opinion, as it seemed more like a lecture.  Or maybe talked about it after the round.......In retrospect, it seems like he was the one locked and loaded to "school" players like me (ie, non-scratch with blades).

[Hogan's Cardy]

I think I would have smiled, glanced downwards and said "Nice shoes" and moved on.

[damnorcross]

Screw that guy, play what you like.  tell him you enjoy the look of a blade, and nothing feels as good as a blade when you hit it dead center.

[Bluefan75]

MelloYello, on 31 October 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Look at how many of these guys can't say something nice!

Every single one wants to tell this guy to piss off.


Let me just say that if you tell every person who comments on your blades to piss off you're going to be doing it a lot and carrying blades won't be worth the time involved. People are going to ask and start conversations about them. Here's a Marshall trying to tell you that blades are probably overkill and unecessary. It's a good point and it's coming from a good place. He might be over some line in how he's doing it but man, I'm shocked at how quick people are to 'turn their backs on someone.'

That's why people are so un-social in golf right now. No one is willing to talk about what they think or believe with other people. If someone else thinks something different they must be crazy and it's your job to completely disrespect them.

Seriously...people are going to notice you if you have blades!

Just a warning to anyone who doesn't know this.

Please come up with some answer other than F-off, buddy!

You seem to be completely blind to the marshal's words.  He didn't say "Nice irons."  He didn't ask "What kind of blades are those?"

You're barking up the wrong tree about people not wanting to be social.  The marshal had no intention of being social there, he was looking to toss a lecture.  Social would have been completely different.

And I don't think any of these people would be saying "F off" is the best response had the marshal started the conversation a different way.

Would you have the same complaint if the marshal posted that some guy came up to him and said he did a crappy job of keeping the pace and managing the tee box?  And he has no clue on how to ride his cart around the golf course for effectiveness?  Because that's the equivalent of what this marshal did to a paying customer.

[Boogaloo_Jones]

MelloYello, on 31 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If you don't have a come-back what do you think that means?

You should have some response and F-Off is certainly not the right one. You should have some legitimate answer to his comments that isn't hostile. If hostility is a response to someone's comments, then those comments probably hit home and are true. That's just ego being a defense mechanicsm.

I realize you weren't hostile, but some of the above responses are and that's just terrible. They're what's wrong with golf right now. Too many people who aren't approachable. They'd tell someone to piss off before they would offer a smile and a polite conversation. Whatever you want to say, just don't take that road. Be a nice guy and try and change this gentlemen's views on blades instead. Be a positive individual.

To me, you probably shouldn't be playing them if you can't have a nice conversation with someone who's interested. There's nice clubs and people are going to take notice of them on occassion. If you carry blades, you'd better be wiling to chat with folks about them because you'll have people ask you about them and people like the Marshall you mentioned who want to tell you their opinions outright. If you can't even give him a good reason why you bought them, you probably bought them out of some lusty desire which you're secretly embarrassed of. That only makes you human though. But, it's perfectly fair to say something like...

"...well, I'm at a point where I'd like to try them and see if I can adjust to them. I just want to experience them. I realize it's a mixed bag with who's playing what these days but I want to give them a shot before these Game Improvement companies stop making them altogether."

When did golf become a place to have a legitimate response to someone, a marshall of all people, who was LECTURING the OP on why he shouldnt be playing blades.  It wasnt a discussion, it was the marshall stating matter of factly that because "you are not a pro, you should not be playing blades" argument.  There was no conversation.

The comment about the OP being a gentleman, in my opinion he was.  He didnt say anything to argue and came there to continue what he was doing, that was to play golf.  The marshall's job is to make sure people start on time and group people together and keep pace of play.  If he wanted to voice his opinion on why amateurs should not play blades, then write an article or have it at the bar where you're not interrupting someones game.

The argument of "blades vs. cavity backs" is annoying enough on the forums, but when it goes to the golf course that's just taking it to another level.

[dlygrisse]

I find people like this very annoying, depending on my mood I would have either laughed him off and ignored him, or told him to STFU.  Or I may have let him take a swipe with one to show him how cool they were...

[stage1350]

General response to off the wall crap like this:

"Well, my grandfather lived to be over 100."

by playing blades?

"No.  By minding his own f-ing business."