152 replies to this topic

[tmax77]

Hey guys, been a longtime member and loyal reader, but for the most part have sat back enjoyed the commentary and opinions of all of the members. Well I think it is time to get involved. I have been a self confessed club ho for a long time 16+ plus years. I enjoy tinkering with clubs...all clubs looking for that magical bullet so to speak. I also have a different background than most...most on this forum have real jobs, go to work real hours and have weekends off....I on the hand do not. I have been a higher trained fitter for over 10+ years and with the help of an awesome facility have won multiple awards including Ping regional fitter of the year twice, Mizuno Fitter of the year 3 times, top 100 fitter for Titleist for 10+ years, Taylormade and Callaway regional fitter of the year.  I have also been blessed to be trained by some of the best in the industry including going to the Taylormade Kingdom on 7 seperate occasions (both coasts) I have been very fortunate....
Accolades aside because this site is full of people that are more highly acclaimed than me, I try to fit on the basis of stats...real stats apples to apples comparisons..Now I will be the first one to admit that hitting balls on a launch monitor and hitting golf balls in competition and or your daily round are two entirely different things so any time numbers are brought up I always take it with a grain of salt, what where the conditions, what launch monitor, what type of golf ball, what was the wind doing, etc.

Sorry for the rambling and if you guys are still reading I must have done at least a little bit right, but I just wanted to give a full background on me because I take this stuff very seriously and before I reviewed these two golf clubs because I feel that these two companies are very passionate about building the best golf clubs, and have the ability to custom fit the individual better than any other company....Another words if these guys can't find you a combination that works based on shaft selection, lie angles, spine aligning, digital lofting, customer service, etc than it is pretty hard to find that combo...Now I will say just because I think these companies are awesome in what they do that doesn't mean they are the only ones and that Callaway for example doesn't make a great driver (which the razr fit is phenomal with the right shaft.) The fact is every company out in the industry right now has a tremendous driver (just like their is different flavors of ice cream), some companies market their products better or have better options available, or look/feel better.

Anyway on to the "Clash of the Titans" I will preface it by saying this was done on a 50 degree day and hadn't hit golf balls in over a week so trackman will reflect that a little bit actual carry distance would be a little farther on a 70 degree day with real golf balls and some practice. Now I don't claim to be "GolfWrx" long I am infact very average but I am ok with that "can't change it now anyway." I also have been undergoing massive swing changes I used to have a positive attack angle on 14 and would swing from the inside again in double digits I would hit High Hooks (or blocks.. ) There has been a lot written on both drivers the Ping Anser and the Titleist 913 D3 so I wanted to do a comparison for myself on Trackman 3 and post the results on here that I got....first off Thank You very much to Ping for getting me this combination (this wouldn't have been my first choice as far as combo's go but I was ok with being a test dummy to see how this shaft would preform the head is very awesome looking it to me is very "muscle car" looking cool, sleek, confidence inspiring a little loud in my mind but not bad sounding (not like some of the old nikes or cobra's.) The Titleist on the other hand is classic, pear shaped, no nonsense and the best sounding driver I have hit in a long time. Just as a comparison I have been playing a Taylormade Superfast TP Original 9.5 with a Matrix Ozik Altus in strong flex at 44 inches long (best feeling shaft ever in my personal opinion.) This driver was not the prettiest looking but performance and sound were fantastic.

PING ANSER---Standard Ping Length 45 1/4--MItsubishi Kuro Kage 60 stiff flex tipped 3/4"--D3 Swingweight and set to the (-) setting mainly for looks

Good feeling driver, very consistent, a "low spin" monster this driver for me would be perfect for hard, fast conditions. The shaft itself to me was a little bit more boardier (if that is a word) than mine. Face felt incredible and the shots seemed to be hot. Driver for me was easy to hit draws with even with the face open, hard for me to hit a cut (6 months ago a cut for me would be a block...lol) Tried this combo in a TFC (not posted) and the carry results were better. Ping has a winner especially if the shaft is right for the person.

TITLEIST 913 D3---Standard Titleist Length 45 ----Mitsubishi D+ 62 stiff shaft--- D2 swingweight---A1 setting

Driver felt awesome....haven't hit a Titleist driver since 907 D2 (I know maybe not their best effort.) I used to play every Titleist Driver, 975D still being maybe my favorite of all time and loved the 905T driver with a Graphite Design ys-7 + shaft (remember that one) a shaft that is like the Blue Bullet. The driver was very easy to swing, very easy to hit both ways. The shaft and the clubhead for me produced high flat bombs it was simply a joy to hit and shocked me how easy it was to swing. I know that they combined the technologies of D2 and D3 to make them supposedly exact launch and spin numbers (I still give the edge to D3 in these catagories it still flies lower and spins less.)

Rankings (personal opinion)

Appearance= Ping by a slim margin (looks like a destoyer)
Feel= Titleist (shaft could be a big part of this, the materials in the shaft are designed to make it feel smoother)
Ball Flight= TItleist (who can argue with high flat bombs)
Shaft= Titleist (for a "Quote stock shaft" this thing is tremendous)
Carry Distance= Titleist (easy one here)
Total Distance= Very close
Sound= Titleist

Titleist= 5 Vs. Ping = 1 and one tie....Seems like a easy "answer" to the question of which one I should play, but again maybe the Anser with different shaft "perhaps the D+" and the numbers might be better a combo I certainly want to try....Alas the search continues my recommendation....go hit them...go get fit (very important) by someone you trust....


At the end of the day....both companies produce great drivers and it is interesting to me how important launch numbers factor into the equation when talking about "pure" carry distance...The experts say that you look for a window between 12 and 16 degrees depending on the person's speed and spin, but everyone is different.....Two similar people with two exact swing speeds can produce vastly different results with the same equipment....That is why fitting is so important.





Thanks for listening to my ramble...please feel free to ask any questions you might have

[Doc Mcstuffins]

nice review....thanks for taking the time.

[Jag80]

Thanks for the review and letting us know your background.  Also cool to see your numbers.  Those seem more in line with something I can relate to.  Please take the time to do more reviews as you get time.

Thanks again.

[Hstead]

Thanks for the review.  I am surprised at the launch and spin numbers.  Your AoA is higher, but man, is the Anser that much more of a low launch low spin head than the D3?  The shafts couldn't be making that much difference could they?  The heads are the same loft but you launched the D3 quite a bit higher.

[tmax77]

Hstead, on 31 October 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Thanks for the review.  I am surprised at the launch and spin numbers.  Your AoA is higher, but man, is the Anser that much more of a low launch low spin head than the D3?  The shafts couldn't be making that much difference could they?  The heads are the same loft but you launched the D3 quite a bit higher.

Yeah my angle of attack used to be scary double digits...Hey we are supposed to hit up on the ball right...lol went to the extreme in that regard.
With the shaft the Kuro Kage was supposed to be slightly higher launching than the D+ 62 According to the experts at Mitsubishi...The weights were virtually the same.

[Golfjunki71]

Great review . I have the Anser and will be picking up
a D3.

[tmax77]

Hstead, on 31 October 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Thanks for the review.  I am surprised at the launch and spin numbers.  Your AoA is higher, but man, is the Anser that much more of a low launch low spin head than the D3?  The shafts couldn't be making that much difference could they?  The heads are the same loft but you launched the D3 quite a bit higher.

Spin rate wise surprised me too...I knew Anser was supposed to be low spin but WOW!!

[tmax77]

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Great review . I have the Anser and will be picking up
a D3.

Honestly feel can't go wrong with either one both great drivers....what shaft are you going with in the D3?

[tyro]

Thanks for chiming in and adding your experience.  Good read and I like how you keep it real.  I have an Anser that I have not hit yet, but the 913 is one my radar for 2013 for sure!

[tmax77]

Jag80, on 31 October 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Thanks for the review and letting us know your background.  Also cool to see your numbers.  Those seem more in line with something I can relate to.  Please take the time to do more reviews as you get time.

Thanks again.

I know I can't relate to 115+ swingspeeds that carry the ball 300+ although I have seen it in person an it is awesome to watch.... I was hoping this would be more relative...

[tmax77]

tyro, on 31 October 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Thanks for chiming in and adding your experience.  Good read and I like how you keep it real.  I have an Anser that I have not hit yet, but the 913 is one my radar for 2013 for sure!

What shaft and setting do you use in your Anser? What shaft are you looking for in your 913?

Edited by tmax77, 31 October 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[Golfjunki71]

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Great review . I have the Anser and will be picking up
a D3.R

Honestly feel can't go wrong with either one both great drivers....what shaft are you going with in the D3?

The D+. I have Ahina in my Anser. Based on your results the 913 should go higher?

[gklim22]

Tmax, great review!  Is there a reason why you went with the D+ in 62 gram weight versus the 72 gram, which I believe is one of the stock shaft options?  Did you get a chance to compare the S+ 62 versus the D+ 62?  Thx

[tmax77]

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Great review . I have the Anser and will be picking up
a D3.R

Honestly feel can't go wrong with either one both great drivers....what shaft are you going with in the D3?

The D+. I have Ahina in my Anser. Based on your results the 913 should go higher?

I would think so...D+ 72?

[tmax77]

gklim22, on 31 October 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Tmax, great review!  Is there a reason why you went with the D+ in 62 gram weight versus the 72 gram, which I believe is one of the stock shaft options?  Did you get a chance to compare the S+ 62 versus the D+ 62?  Thx

The D+ 62 is a custom offering although not an upcharge...Mainly weight is why I choose it even though my Altus is 70 plus grams and was curious to see what it would produce....after not hitting balls for a while thought I would try that weight and because I was trying to do a direct comparison with the Kuro Kage...I haven't tried the S+ yet but am planning too...with the results of d+ kinda want to hit it in 72 as well...I will try them in the next couple days and post the results...

[swanry30]

great review!

it appears you launch the anser lower than the 913...  what are your thoughts - change out the anser head to 10.5(then to the minus setting) - and launch would go up?

Edited by swanry30, 31 October 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[tmax77]

swanry30, on 31 October 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

great review!

it appears you launch the anser lower than the 913...  what are your thoughts - change out the anser head to 10.5(then to the minus setting) - and launch would go up?

Yes it should go up but it will also change the spin...the other thing would be to have a head digitally lofted by Ping..

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Overall the Titleist is obviously a better fit with your SS..ball speed was super good for you off both clubs...simply a launch issue with the ping...get that puppy up to 14.5 and gain a bunch!! you already know this since you fit so many people...I am just rambling here...

great review...amazing the difference in the two launch and spin wise though.

Edited by Dscvrr St Louis, 31 October 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[J.W.]

Nice review Tmax!

[tmax77]

Dscvrr St Louis, on 31 October 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Overall the Titleist is obviously a better fit with your SS..ball speed was super good for you off both clubs...simply a launch issue with the ping...get that puppy up to 14.5 and gain a bunch!! you already know this since you fit so many people...I am just rambling here...

great review...amazing the difference in the two launch and spin wise though.

shocked me too....i have hit the 10.5 on the course and seemed really high but haven't hit that one on the monitor...too busy fitting other people...

[tmax77]

J.W., on 31 October 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Nice review Tmax!

Thanks

[jay65]

Loved the post. Very interesting set of numbrers. Nice to see somebody in the same ball park ball speeds as me. I did notice your A of A is a little more on the Titleist, but even so, its obvious the Titleist is higher launching than the Ping, even accounting for that. Would be nice to see you hit a Fujikurs 6.2 Tour Spec or Matrix 6m3 to see if that spin rate came down a little. But spin isn't the enemy alot of people think. I really liked your post, and will look forward to seeing some more of your findings. Excellent job!!

[tmax77]

jay65, on 31 October 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Loved the post. Very interesting set of numbrers. Nice to see somebody in the same ball park ball speeds as me. I did notice your A of A is a little more on the Titleist, but even so, its obvious the Titleist is higher launching than the Ping, even accounting for that. Would be nice to see you hit a Fujikurs 6.2 Tour Spec or Matrix 6m3 to see if that spin rate came down a little. But spin isn't the enemy alot of people think. I really liked your post, and will look forward to seeing some more of your findings. Excellent job!!

I have those shafts on order from Titleist so that I can cover more players...Thanks again still working on the Angle of attack but as a fitter I know that positive 5 is the number that Trackman numbers recommend

[jay65]

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

jay65, on 31 October 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Loved the post. Very interesting set of numbrers. Nice to see somebody in the same ball park ball speeds as me. I did notice your A of A is a little more on the Titleist, but even so, its obvious the Titleist is higher launching than the Ping, even accounting for that. Would be nice to see you hit a Fujikurs 6.2 Tour Spec or Matrix 6m3 to see if that spin rate came down a little. But spin isn't the enemy alot of people think. I really liked your post, and will look forward to seeing some more of your findings. Excellent job!!

I have those shafts on order from Titleist so that I can cover more players...Thanks again still working on the Angle of attack but as a fitter I know that positive 5 is the number that Trackman numbers recommend

Well you did a great job with the A of A with the Titleist, +5 degrees average, spot on!! Unfortunately mine averages out at about +1, comes from playing on Scottish Links I'm afraid, i'm scared to death to hit up on the ball that much. The wind would grab it, and lost ballsville!! Lol. Brilliant review though!!

[mit006]

I can't help but notice that you noted that the Kuro Kage felt boardier.

Looking a little more carefully, you have a pretty stiff shaft in the Kuro Kage for your swing speed, 45 1/4 tipped 3/4 puts it at 44.5. As a club fitter you must know that tip stiffens the shaft a lot and also tends to lower the launch angle. On top of which, you set the adjustable hosel to "-" which lowers the loft and opens the face a tiny bit - effect being a lower dynamic loft at impact.

To me, it is no surprise you're hitting low bullets with the Anser. The shaft, tipping, and settings have made it so it isn't exactly a apples to apples comparison. The data you provided is great. It shows a fairly consistent swing speed and ball speed, you're making a good smash factor too. As other have already noticed, the launch and spin is way lower with the Anser, but I think that's somewhat attributable to the above. Would be a good test if you could stick the stock Ahina 70s into the Ping, set it to neutral and then compare it to the D3 with the Diamana D+ (White). I bet that would result in those high bombs you gave points to the D3 for. If the spin stayed lower, you may get that added "hard fairway" roll out too!

The interesting thing about the data is that for equivalent club head speeds, the Anser is a fraction of a mph faster ball speed. We're talking less than 1 mph difference. Which at least tells us that both heads are very similar in their "hotness" - If the Anser is more forgiving, and you can get your launch numbers up a little, but still have a lower spin than the D3 - you'd have a real monster on your hands.

But ultimately as you said, nothing replaces a proper fitting to get the above all sorted out.

Thanks again for your experience - all great information to hear.

[Golfjunki71]

The Titleist had higher ball speed.

mit006, on 31 October 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I can't help but notice that you noted that the Kuro Kage felt boardier.

Looking a little more carefully, you have a pretty stiff shaft in the Kuro Kage for your swing speed, 45 1/4 tipped 3/4 puts it at 44.5. As a club fitter you must know that tip stiffens the shaft a lot and also tends to lower the launch angle. On top of which, you set the adjustable hosel to "-" which lowers the loft and opens the face a tiny bit - effect being a lower dynamic loft at impact.

To me, it is no surprise you're hitting low bullets with the Anser. The shaft, tipping, and settings have made it so it isn't exactly a apples to apples comparison. The data you provided is great. It shows a fairly consistent swing speed and ball speed, you're making a good smash factor too. As other have already noticed, the launch and spin is way lower with the Anser, but I think that's somewhat attributable to the above. Would be a good test if you could stick the stock Ahina 70s into the Ping, set it to neutral and then compare it to the D3 with the Diamana D+ (White). I bet that would result in those high bombs you gave points to the D3 for. If the spin stayed lower, you may get that added "hard fairway" roll out too!

The interesting thing about the data is that for equivalent club head speeds, the Anser is a fraction of a mph faster ball speed. We're talking less than 1 mph difference. Which at least tells us that both heads are very similar in their "hotness" - If the Anser is more forgiving, and you can get your launch numbers up a little, but still have a lower spin than the D3 - you'd have a real monster on your hands.

But ultimately as you said, nothing replaces a proper fitting to get the above all sorted out.

Thanks again for your experience - all great information to hear.

[tmax77]

jay65, on 31 October 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

jay65, on 31 October 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Loved the post. Very interesting set of numbrers. Nice to see somebody in the same ball park ball speeds as me. I did notice your A of A is a little more on the Titleist, but even so, its obvious the Titleist is higher launching than the Ping, even accounting for that. Would be nice to see you hit a Fujikurs 6.2 Tour Spec or Matrix 6m3 to see if that spin rate came down a little. But spin isn't the enemy alot of people think. I really liked your post, and will look forward to seeing some more of your findings. Excellent job!!

I have those shafts on order from Titleist so that I can cover more players...Thanks again still working on the Angle of attack but as a fitter I know that positive 5 is the number that Trackman numbers recommend

Well you did a great job with the A of A with the Titleist, +5 degrees average, spot on!! Unfortunately mine averages out at about +1, comes from playing on Scottish Links I'm afraid, i'm scared to death to hit up on the ball that much. The wind would grab it, and lost ballsville!! Lol. Brilliant review though!!

Higher Angle of attack lower spin rates generally...great for into the wind...

[Golfjunki71]

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

tmax77, on 31 October 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Golfjunki71, on 31 October 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Great review . I have the Anser and will be picking up
a D3.R

Honestly feel can't go wrong with either one both great drivers....what shaft are you going with in the D3?

The D+. I have Ahina in my Anser. Based on your results the 913 should go higher?

I would think so...D+ 72?

Yes I like the heavier shafts.

[J.W.]

mit006, on 31 October 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I can't help but notice that you noted that the Kuro Kage felt boardier.

Looking a little more carefully, you have a pretty stiff shaft in the Kuro Kage for your swing speed, 45 1/4 tipped 3/4 puts it at 44.5. As a club fitter you must know that tip stiffens the shaft a lot and also tends to lower the launch angle. On top of which, you set the adjustable hosel to "-" which lowers the loft and opens the face a tiny bit - effect being a lower dynamic loft at impact.

To me, it is no surprise you're hitting low bullets with the Anser. The shaft, tipping, and settings have made it so it isn't exactly a apples to apples comparison. The data you provided is great. It shows a fairly consistent swing speed and ball speed, you're making a good smash factor too. As other have already noticed, the launch and spin is way lower with the Anser, but I think that's somewhat attributable to the above. Would be a good test if you could stick the stock Ahina 70s into the Ping, set it to neutral and then compare it to the D3 with the Diamana D+ (White). I bet that would result in those high bombs you gave points to the D3 for. If the spin stayed lower, you may get that added "hard fairway" roll out too!

The interesting thing about the data is that for equivalent club head speeds, the Anser is a fraction of a mph faster ball speed. We're talking less than 1 mph difference. Which at least tells us that both heads are very similar in their "hotness" - If the Anser is more forgiving, and you can get your launch numbers up a little, but still have a lower spin than the D3 - you'd have a real monster on your hands.

But ultimately as you said, nothing replaces a proper fitting to get the above all sorted out.

Thanks again for your experience - all great information to hear.

In your opinion, do you think shaft can lower launch 2 degrees?

[BirdieBob]

Thanks for the quick review of the two drivers.  Since you are a very good fitter for these drivers, please try a variety of shafts in both as if you were fitting someone and then report back what you found to be the best for you for each driver.  Then you are reporting the best for each.  I'm understanding that this was not the case?