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Name On Bag Disqualifies Amateur?


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#1 Bronco01

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:07 PM

I recently played golf with a guy who spent years caddying on the Ladies tour (I assume it was the LPGA) for a world top 10 player (a few years ago).

I was telling him about a friend I play golf with who has the whole Titleist thing going on, including his name embroidered on his (staff) bag.  Not my style but I have no problems if he wants to do that.

However....the ex-caddy told me that having his name embroidered on his bag could have him disqualified from tournaments he enters as an amateur.

Has anybody heard of this?  Seems ridiculous but my knowledge of the rules is limited to more the more practical and everyday rules (and I'll never have to worry about having my name embroidered on any bags).

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#2 rogolf

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

 Bronco01, on 29 October 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

I recently played golf with a guy who spent years caddying on the Ladies tour (I assume it was the LPGA) for a world top 10 player (a few years ago).

I was telling him about a friend I play golf with who has the whole Titleist thing going on, including his name embroidered on his (staff) bag.  Not my style but I have no problems if he wants to do that.

However....the ex-caddy told me that having his name embroidered on his bag could have him disqualified from tournaments he enters as an amateur.

Has anybody heard of this?  Seems ridiculous but my knowledge of the rules is limited to more the more practical and everyday rules (and I'll never have to worry about having my name embroidered on any bags).

Not Rules of golf, but potentially Rules of Amateur Status issue.

#3 Sean2

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:17 PM

A lot of amateurs have their names on their bags. I see it at many tournaments.
Hey...be nice.

#4 Thrillhouse

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.

#5 Bronco01

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

 Thrillhouse, on 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.
Thanks, wondered if it was a Euro thing.

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#6 Llortamaisey

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:30 AM

I've seen it here in the US. It's called the "don't be the d-bag" rule. I'm pretty sure it's just a local rule at some tournaments. While I don't agree with the rule, I do agree that you should only have your name embroidered on a bag if the bag is given to you for free.

#7 Newby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:46 AM

It's not a 'Europe thing' and it doesn't affect amateur status.
It may be a NCAA 'thing' or simply another golfing myth.


A “low handicap” golfer wishing to retain Amateur Status may not:
11. Display any advertising on his golf bag, bag cover or hold-all bag other than the name of the
manufacturer of that item and/or his own name.

Edited by Newby, 30 October 2012 - 02:56 AM.


#8 profsmitty

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:01 AM

Almost every colligiate golfer has their name sewn into their golf bag.


#9 Newby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:12 AM

Another myth then

#10 TripleGrindSole

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:51 AM

 Newby, on 30 October 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:


A “low handicap” golfer wishing to retain Amateur Status may not:
11. Display any advertising on his golf bag, bag cover or hold-all bag other than the name of the
manufacturer of that item and/or his own name.

Where is this from?


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#11 Newby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 05:53 AM

The R&A website

The Rules of Amateur Status:
A Brief Guide for “Low Handicap” Golfers

#12 6thFairway

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

Geez, a bunch of the senior golfers at my club have their names sewn onto their golf bags... I'm talking about 18 handicap guys.   They just order the bag from the club, and one of the options is to get your name on it.   Cart bags, not staff bags.   I never think a thing about it except I don't think I'd do it.

#13 mdgboxx

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

Deerslayer's son, Stratton Nolan, has his name/initials embroided on EVERYTHING! :cheesy:
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#14 rogolf

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

 Bronco01, on 29 October 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.
Thanks, wondered if it was a Euro thing.

The Rules of amateur status are the same worldwide - if it's a "Euro thing", then it's a "world thing".

#15 J13

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

a name on your bag means nothing and doesn't disqualify someone.

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#16 Petethreeput

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:52 AM

Anyone can have anything embroidered on anything... as long as they pay for it.  The only thing affecting amateur status is freebies or payments.

#17 Newby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

To repeat for those who seem to have missed it:

From the R&A website
The Rules of Amateur Status:
A Brief Guide for “Low Handicap” Golfers


A “low handicap” golfer wishing to retain Amateur Status may not:
11. Display any advertising on his golf bag, bag cover or hold-all bag other than the name of the
manufacturer of that item and/or his own name.

Edited by Newby, 30 October 2012 - 11:20 AM.


#18 LULynx'er

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:34 AM

So, wouldn't USGA bag tags be illegal to have on one's bag? It technically advertises for the USGA, and isn't product of the manufacturer of the bag. lol


Such a ridiculous rule!

#19 Stuart G.

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

First of all, What Newby posted is from the R+A, the USGA appears to be worded differently.  Secondly, Rule 6 of amateur status in the USGA (which deals with advertising) only applies to "amateur golfers of golf skill or reputation".  If you want to understand what that means, go look it up but the short answer is that it certainly doesn't apply to most casual golfers.  

It's usually a good idea to actually read and understand a rule before criticizing it.

  Key points highlighted

6-2. Promotion, Advertising and Sales
An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation must not use that skill or
reputation to obtain payment, compensation, personal benefit or any
financial gain, directly or indirectly, for (i) promoting, advertising or selling
anything, or (ii) allowing his name or likeness to be used by a third party
for the promotion, advertisement or sale of anything.
Exception: An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation may allow his name
or likeness to be used to promote:
(a) his national, regional, state or county golf union or association; or
(b) a recognized charity (or similar good cause); or
© subject to the permission of his national golf union or association, any
golf competition or other event that is considered to be in the best
interests of, or would contribute to the development of, the game.
The amateur golfer must not obtain any payment, compensation or financial
gain, directly or indirectly, for allowing his name or likeness to be used in these
ways.
Note 1: An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation may accept golf
equipment from anyone dealing in such equipment provided no advertising
is involved.
Note 2: Limited name and logo recognition is allowed on golf equipment
and clothing. Further information relating to this Note and its proper
interpretation is provided in “Decisions on the Rules of Amateur Status.”



And a specific decison wrt the players name on the bag.

6-2/13
Policy on Names on Golf Equipment and Clothing
Q. May a player of golf skill or reputation arrange for his own name to appear
on his golf equipment, clothing or shoes, in addition to the name and/or logo of
the manufacturer of the equipment, clothing or shoes?
A. Yes. The golf equipment, clothing or shoes must be of the type that is
normally available at a retail source and may bear only the name and/or logo of
the manufacturer in addition to the name of the player.
Furthermore, it is permissible for a golf bag, umbrella, golf shoes or clothing
of a player representing an educational institution to bear, in addition to the
manufacturer’s name and/or logo, the player’s name and the name and/or logo
of the educational institution.
Note: The player’s name must not appear more than once on each item of
equipment or clothing or on each shoe. With regard to golf bags and umbrellas, the
name must not exceed a perimeter measurement of 500 mm or 20 inches. With
regard to clothing and shoes, the name on each garment or shoe must not exceed
a perimeter measurement of 220 mm or 9 inches (see Decision 6-2/15). (Revised)

Edited by Stuart G., 30 October 2012 - 11:58 AM.


#20 Newby

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:12 PM

 Stuart G., on 30 October 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

First of all, What Newby posted is from the R+A, the USGA appears to be worded differently.  Secondly, Rule 6 of amateur status in the USGA (which deals with advertising) only applies to "amateur golfers of golf skill or reputation".  If you want to understand what that means, go look it up but the short answer is that it certainly doesn't apply to most casual golfers.  

Stuart

The Rule and Decisions you quoted (and all the others) are the same for the R & A and USGA.

I only quoted from the 'guide to players', as finding the Decisions on Amateur Status is not easy on the R&A site.


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#21 Stuart G.

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

 Newby, on 30 October 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

 Stuart G., on 30 October 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

First of all, What Newby posted is from the R+A, the USGA appears to be worded differently.  Secondly, Rule 6 of amateur status in the USGA (which deals with advertising) only applies to "amateur golfers of golf skill or reputation".  If you want to understand what that means, go look it up but the short answer is that it certainly doesn't apply to most casual golfers.  

Stuart

The Rule and Decisions you quoted (and all the others) are the same for the R & A and USGA.

I only quoted from the 'guide to players', as finding the Decisions on Amateur Status is not easy on the R&A site.

Thanks.  I spent enough time going through the USGA site and didn't want to even take on the R+A's site :-)

Edited by Stuart G., 30 October 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#22 Thrillhouse

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:51 PM

 rogolf, on 30 October 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

 Bronco01, on 29 October 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.
Thanks, wondered if it was a Euro thing.

The Rules of amateur status are the same worldwide - if it's a "Euro thing", then it's a "world thing".

Here ya go! Post #8, it's convention rather than law apparently but most certainly is a euro thing.

http://www.golfwrx.c...28-name-on-bag/

So maybe you can put some quotes around that.

Edited by profsmitty, 30 October 2012 - 05:19 PM.
Language.


#23 rogolf

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

 Thrillhouse, on 30 October 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 rogolf, on 30 October 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

 Bronco01, on 29 October 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.
Thanks, wondered if it was a Euro thing.

The Rules of amateur status are the same worldwide - if it's a "Euro thing", then it's a "world thing".

Here ya go! Post #8, it's convention rather than law apparently but most certainly is a euro thing.

http://www.golfwrx.c...28-name-on-bag/

So maybe you can put some quotes around that.

Yeah, but the OP was talking about "Rules and Etiquette" (disqualification), not social behavior.

Edited by profsmitty, 30 October 2012 - 05:20 PM.
Language in quote.


#24 Guia

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 04:37 PM

Seems ridiculous to disqualify someone for their name on their bag.  In college golf so many bags look
the same that having your name on the bag seems like common sense.

#25 Thrillhouse

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

 rogolf, on 30 October 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 30 October 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 rogolf, on 30 October 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

 Bronco01, on 29 October 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 29 October 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's something that has been an issue in europe, not a north American thing.

Mat562 explained the whole thing in an old thread if you feel like doing some digging.
Thanks, wondered if it was a Euro thing.

The Rules of amateur status are the same worldwide - if it's a "Euro thing", then it's a "world thing".

Here ya go! Post #8, it's convention rather than law apparently but most certainly is a euro thing.

http://www.golfwrx.c...28-name-on-bag/

So maybe you can put some quotes around that.

Yeah, but the OP was talking about "Rules and Etiquette" (disqualification), not social behavior.

I wasn't focusing on that, just trying to explain to everyone why the caddie said what he did.

In any case I shared the information, anyone who is interested can go look, no point derailing the thread over it.


#26 Newby

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 03:36 AM

 Thrillhouse, on 30 October 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Here ya go! Post #8, it's convention rather than law apparently but most certainly is a euro thing.

http://www.golfwrx.c...28-name-on-bag/

So maybe you can put some quotes around that.

"Names on amateurs' bags is something that's traditionally been frowned upon in my part of the world by both the EGU and the R&A, even for competitive players at elite amateur level,"

The relevant quote (above) from the thread you linked is nonsense. The R&A, EGU  and English Counties have no problem with names on bags. It has been common practice at top amateur level for as long as I have been officiating..

#27 Thrillhouse

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:45 PM

 Newby, on 31 October 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

 Thrillhouse, on 30 October 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Here ya go! Post #8, it's convention rather than law apparently but most certainly is a euro thing.

http://www.golfwrx.c...28-name-on-bag/

So maybe you can put some quotes around that.

"Names on amateurs' bags is something that's traditionally been frowned upon in my part of the world by both the EGU and the R&A, even for competitive players at elite amateur level,"

The relevant quote (above) from the thread you linked is nonsense. The R&A, EGU  and English Counties have no problem with names on bags. It has been common practice at top amateur level for as long as I have been officiating..

Those of us who know mat562's background (and many of us who have been around for a while do) are inclined to take his word over yours.

He played amateur golf in the UK at a very high level with some very good players and is someone I would consider an expert on the subject. I don't know how long you have been officiating, but I suspect it either isn't very long or you made it up.

Nothing like sharing good information only to have a bunch of people try to start a fight with you.

I'm out of this thread, enjoy yourselves.

#28 stage1350

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:04 PM

Am I going to get DQ'd if my mom wrote my name on the waistband of my underwear?
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#29 Sean2

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

 stage1350, on 31 October 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Am I going to get DQ'd if my mom wrote my name on the waistband of my underwear?
Only if you wear them outside your pants.
Hey...be nice.

#30 stage1350

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:21 PM

 Sean2, on 31 October 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

 stage1350, on 31 October 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Am I going to get DQ'd if my mom wrote my name on the waistband of my underwear?
Only if you wear them outside your pants.

Who am I kidding?  I prefer to go commando, especially now that the moisture wicking fabrics keep my boys fresh and airy...

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