47 replies to this topic

[Par-A-Medic]

I think those increases will get us to a spot we can make it through the winter and back into tourney times. I can't honestly answer that these Increases alone will get them into the black forever. That's the information I would like to have more access to as a board member.

[Thrillhouse]

Par-A-Medic, on 30 October 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

I think those increases will get us to a spot we can make it through the winter and back into tourney times. I can't honestly answer that these Increases alone will get them into the black forever. That's the information I would like to have more access to as a board member.

I think you should push for that information. You can't come up with a plan if you don't have it.

[puttnforthe8]

Do something that more golf course should do!!!!!  Offer a range pass to the public.  I do not understand why more courses do not do this....it is free money like a gym membership.  Instead courses insist on charging for buckets or a flat rate.  Example, the course that I live on charges $20 for the range...so screw them, I paid $50/month for a range pass with some other goodies.   I spent $20 one time and never again....I pay $50/month and used the range once per week maybe twice a couple of times.  

So put it simply:
Course A:  Got $20 off of me for 1 range session and that's it.
Course B: Got $600 off of me for ~50 range sessions.

Did it cost course B more money for my 50 range sessions?  Nope.

[The General]

make sure you have fast/good greens and cheaper rates and you will get people to play there. I would.

[Thrillhouse]

puttnforthe8, on 30 October 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Do something that more golf course should do!!!!!  Offer a range pass to the public.  I do not understand why more courses do not do this....it is free money like a gym membership.  Instead courses insist on charging for buckets or a flat rate.  Example, the course that I live on charges $20 for the range...so screw them, I paid $50/month for a range pass with some other goodies.   I spent $20 one time and never again....I pay $50/month and used the range once per week maybe twice a couple of times.  

So put it simply:
Course A:  Got $20 off of me for 1 range session and that's it.
Course B: Got $600 off of me for ~50 range sessions.

Did it cost course B more money for my 50 range sessions?  Nope.

Course A received $20 in total revenue and in return only had to pick 100 range balls off the range, only had 1 session of wear on their mat or grass tee, as well as additional costs incurred.

Course B received $12 in revenue per range session from you but had to pick 5000 range balls off the range and had 50 sessions of wear on their mat or grass tee, as well as additional costs incurred.

Did it cost course B more money for your 50 range sessions? We would have to have their books to know what the costs of facility A and B were to be able to answer that question for sure.

I suspect that the answer is yes, it costs facility B more per session because the wear on their facility and range balls is greater. I suspect that option B becomes more profitable once you sell enough of those range passes, which means your range will be crowded with range rats which a facility may or may not want.

This is my whole point about this whole thing. Without hard data on revenue, costs, use, continued privacy etc. you can't make a decision on any of this stuff.

(I didn't mean to attack your post, It was just a useful example to make a point)

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I think a purely private golf course (members and accompanied guests only) is a simpler thing to speculate about than a semi-public, member-owned hybrid. If you're basically competing with public courses for daily play, the whole thing is extremely dependent on the competition in your local area. Private club finances tend to come down to adding members, cutting costs or convincing the membership to step up their individual outlay. Public courses generally come down to grabbing share of a shrinking pie nowadays.

If the area is, as most parts of the country at present, overbuilt with golf courses it will be difficult to add enough rounds at a price that is worthwhile to the club's bottom line because you'll be working in a market that's a race to the bottom on pricing as too many course chase a declining number of daily-fee rounds.

If you're fortunate (as a club) to be in an area where there are more golfers than available tee times then of course you can tap into that underserved market profitably.

[BrianL99]

Thrillhouse, on 31 October 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

This is my whole point about this whole thing. Without hard data on revenue, costs, use, continued privacy etc. you can't make a decision on any of this stuff.

(I didn't mean to attack your post, It was just a useful example to make a point)

As has often times said of me, "I'd hate to be quoted as agreeing with you, but I do".

In my opinion, many of the suggestions in this thread, are ludicrous.   Without some insight into the goals of the club, their membership structure, as well as a costs vs revenue matrix, people are throwing darts ... & not very accurately in my opinion.

Golfers are not necessarily good businessmen, nor are businessmen necessarily golfers.

Edited by BrianL99, 31 October 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[YSU golf 86]

Give new members $50 off monthly dues for the first two years and a free cart pass for the first year. My club did this and we picked up 40 new members this year. We shall see how many stick around after the incentives go away. I suspect not many.

[Truman]

It's very difficult to discount your way to prosperity.

[Par-A-Medic]

BrianL99, on 31 October 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Thrillhouse, on 31 October 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

This is my whole point about this whole thing. Without hard data on revenue, costs, use, continued privacy etc. you can't make a decision on any of this stuff.

(I didn't mean to attack your post, It was just a useful example to make a point)

As has often times said of me, "I'd hate to be quoted as agreeing with you, but I do".

In my opinion, many of the suggestions in this thread, are ludicrous.   Without some insight into the goals of the club, their membership structure, as well as a costs vs revenue matrix, people are throwing darts ... & not very accurately in my opinion.

Golfers are not necessarily good businessmen, nor are businessmen necessarily golfers.

The club I'm talking about has indeed decided to get some professional advice on what can be done in the office. I posted on here to see what others might have done, and to get an idea of what other club golfers want out of a club as far as activities, especially those that generate revenue.

[Par-A-Medic]

Truman, on 02 November 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

It's very difficult to discount your way to prosperity.

+1

[YSU golf 86]

I agree with the above. We have junior members paying dues of 85 per month with no cart fees for unlimited golf for the year. The course is a beautiful Travis course. These new members will be gone and we accomplished nothing.

[finalist]

Open the range to the public. Grass range time would hold some value to me personally. I'd glady pay more for a grass range!

[Veng]

BrianL99, on 29 October 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Llortamaisey, on 29 October 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

I'm assuming that the course is open 6 days a week. Reduce that to 5 days a week. Depending on the operating costs, the club could save at least $150,000 per year.

How exactly does closing one day a week, "save" $150,000?

Do you get to cut the Pro's salary by 15% ?
Do you get to cut the Superintendent's pay by 15% ?
Do employee fringe benefit costs go down?
Do you get the City to cut your taxes?
Do your insurance costs go down?
Do you now get to buy less fertilizer or pest control chemicals?
Do cart "expenses" go down?

I have to agree that idea is absolutely laughable.

Golf courses are the epitome  of a fixed cost business.  It probably costs a golf club less than the first 2 foursomes (if that) for the staffing cost to be open an extra day a week.

[scs1070]

The key I think is to drive interest via the pro shop.  I used to be a member at a course years ago that was struggling, and the new pro came in and really change the culture while he was there by have demo days, offering product in the pro shop, having different tourney options. Having tourneys on weekdays that involve players that Normal wouldn't play in tourneys, they had a Wednesday night "hit and giggle" scramble event and a 2-man team league.  Those event drove business back into the bar and restaurant.  The key to it was to get the fringe members, those who maybe only came out once a month, to come out and play in these, along with those members who play in everything.

I remember he really put a lot of time getting the driving range right and keeping it nice.  Having demo clubs to hit out there.  Driving range is easy money for a club, the infrastructure is typically their already.  Getting more traffic just means more money.

You are always going to have that handful of members that will play in everything, or spend money there.  But you have to get those that sit on the fence to come out and play.

[midweston]

This may have been covered, but I am just going to respond without reading the whole thread.  I worked at a really small country club this summer. It has been converted to another business model that seems to be working.

It's called GreatLife golf and fitness. They too had a restaurant, and had built this big building to house it. They converted that to a fitness center and then offered memberships for a ridiculously low rate. Basically in one year they went from under 300 members and no play to around 900 members. They are still working out the kinks, but all the restaurant ever did for them was kill their bottom line. If you make it into a fitness center, you can get people in there during the colder months. Have some classes and trainers and develop both sides. Much more versatile and then you will have non golfers also patronizing your club.

[Siper11]

Clubs in Sothern California are doing the following:
- 1-3 year flat fee trial memberships (Full guest policies)
- Waiving initiation fees, cart fees, locker fees, etc. in exchange for 3-5 year minimum dues
- Willing to refund 75%-100% of initiation fee if cancelled within 3 years

The higher end clubs seem to be equally focused on bringing in non-legacy affluent younger "players" than the 50+ croud by increasing their number of available junior memberships, raising the expiration age from 40 to 45 years old, discounting the monthly fees by 50%, eliminating cart fees, and broadening guest policies. Some are even developing new programs centered on providing specific social, networking, and mentoring programs to this group. While not elimiting initiation fees completely, these clubs are also oferring a full refund of the initiation fee if the individual chooses not to convert to a full membership at 46.

I applaud the mentality and feel that that anyone who can afford to do without the money until they are 46 is more likely to join when they do. Also, having "skin in the game" will make an individual more "invested", more prone to fully experience what the club has to offer, and even more inclined to bring others like them to experience it with them. (FYI - Full Membership initiation/monthly dues are $225K/$2,000 - Junior Membership offer is $30K/$750).

These same clubs have also focused on updating their amenities and improving every aspect of their course's conditions.

Edited by Siper11, 06 November 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[p3ga]

Looking at the Radford Chamber of Commerce site, it states: "Nine golf courses at public and private facilities are located within 30 minutes of Radford".

Wikipedia states:
Demographics

As of the census^[1] of 2000, there were 15,859 people, 5,809 households, and 2,643 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,615.2 people per square mile (623.5/km²). There were 6,137 housing units at an average density of 625.0 per square mile (241.3/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 88.21% White, 8.10% African American, 0.25% Native American, 1.43% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.49% from other races, and 1.51% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.16% of the population.
There were 5,809 households out of which 18.8% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 33.9% were married couples living together, 8.9% had a female householder with no husband present, and 54.5% were non-families. 32.0% of all households were made up of individuals and 8.7% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.25 and the average family size was 2.78.
The age distribution, which is strongly influenced by Radford University, is: 12.9% under the age of 18, 44.0% from 18 to 24, 19.6% from 25 to 44, 14.3% from 45 to 64, and 9.2% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 23 years. For every 100 females there were 83.5 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 81.6 males.
The median income for a household in the city was $24,654, and the median income for a family was $46,332. Males had a median income of $33,045 versus $22,298 for females.

With that many options & a small base from which to draw upon, you're going to have to figure out how to differentiate your club from competitors', as well as draw in a new demographic to the club - maybe not as full members, but as social members. Make the club a destination - for business lunches, dinners, retirement parties, weddings, you name it.... to generate cash outside the normal revenue {golf} stream.

There will be rumblings from the current members as few (especially the long term mebers) will willingly embrace change. However, an organized,  structured, approach could result in their memberships increasing in value.