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Persimmon drivers with really nice grain pattern ?


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#181 Ironmaster Oddities

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 02:57 PM

View PostTexsport, on 16 December 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
Attachment CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg
Attachment CPennaJAMface.jpg
Attachment CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jpg
Attachment CPennaJAMback.jpg
Attachment CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto thread here!

Texsport
texsport.  please post some pix
Thanks,
Uncle Bob


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#182 Ironmaster Oddities

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 02:58 PM

View Postjonnygrouville, on 16 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tony Lema clubs!  Deep-face!!  From San Fransisco!!!  Get out of my dreams and into my car.  That has to be the coolest thing I have ever heard.  This guy was a legend.

Have it!

Posted Image

So much lag that palm tree is getting out of the way.

How have I got this far through my golfing career without knowing that these existed?

Posted Image

I have a Tony Lema Golden Gate SW that matches
Uncle Bob

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#183 jonnygrouville

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 03:58 PM

I bet that sand wedge is lovely.  Square-toe, but nice lines.  Seriously nice.

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#184 jonnygrouville

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 04:40 PM

View Postxgolfx, on 16 December 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

I never saw Toney Penna, or Charley Penna use any wood club that was not finished in BLACK for their personal use. They may have tested other colors , but when it was a tournament, or a "hit the hip" game, it was always black. Many inserts and shafts were used. It may surprise you ( the readers of this site) to know how little you know about the persimmon era clubs. The emphasis of  almost everyone who posts on this site,with few exceptions, is on the importance of the material in the club head . A cavalier attitude of most posters for the shaft is in direct contrast to the designer's concept. TONEY PENNA FELT THAT THE SHAFT WAS NINETY PERCENT OF THE CLUB. THE GRIP AND HEAD WERE ONLY TEN PERCENT. The beginning of a set for personal use was weighing shafts of the proper flex. I have seen him go through dozens to select four for a wood set. With irons, it may have been a hundred to find ten. When the readers on this site change shafts ( and invariably lengthen the clubs) , they have altered (by 90%) the designer's intent. The club is further ruined by sanding off the crown, altering the face, removing the bulge and roll,and changing the color.

My aversion to refinished clubs is a result of my respect for the design and the knowledge that altering to remove the scratches ruins the club. I presume that this will not make most readers happy,but I don't GAS.

CHARLEY PENNA

That's weird.  I have a few clubs that were used by seriously good players (professionals, one British Amateur champion and so on) and they are all black, a few original, but others have clearly been painted.  You definitely can't miss them behind the ball and the contrast of the inserts and definition of the leading edge definitely stand out.  Interesting.  Always seemed so workman-like and this kind of makes sense.

It does not surprise me to know how little I know about this era.  I started playing golf when Burners, Big Berthas and the like were around.  Grouville senior still used persimmon for years, but I wasn't interested as a teenager.  That is why I, and I am sure many others, value your insights.  This is one of my main sources of information and I appreciate the time people here have taken to give me advice and so on.

Sanding crowns?  Guilty!  Have definitely overdone this before, but working on it.  Try and steer clear of altering the face.  Shafts though are a big deal to me as I want to play them.  If I can't find something stiff enough, it is just taking up space in the garage.  If I reshaft something it is only because it would otherwise be useless to me and I know it is pretty much a lottery that I am going to get it even close to right in terms of weight, balance and so on.

Am I a sucker for nice grain?  Yes.  As I said, I had zero appreciation for any of this for the first twenty years of my golfing life.  The natural, organic look is such a strong contrast to what clubs look like today, difficult not to be attracted by this, I am afraid.

I will continue with my amateur attempts to restore clubs, many of which would otherwise be doomed and probably wouldn't be used to hit a ball ever again.  There is no way, not a chance, I will ever understand all the elements of design and craftsmanship that went into the top end clubs.  No way.  It is 2015, I have two kids and work in a bank.  However, keeping as much original as I can, I'd like to think the proof is in the pudding as I now have clubs that work.  For me at least!

Can't remember exactly, but did your uncle design the velocitized woods?  I found a tatty old velocitized driver with a good shaft, which I regripped, refinished, got it to the weight I wanted and used it to shoot level from the back tees around Loch Lomond.  For all the times I have broken par, this is one round I will remember all my life.  Have never hit the ball off the tee like that.  Guys in the bar were asking to see the driver that evening.  Fifty odd years after it was made, people are asking about it.  I'd like to think all the guys responsible for designing it would be happy about that.  Made me far happier than shooting 68 with a big titanium driver would have done (although I did, somehow, manage to lose money).

My restoration attempts might be sacrilege to you, but I have a huge amount of respect for all the work that went into the clubs and am just trying to give them another life many years after their prime.  And many I get my hands on have been refinished before I have had the chance, so have sloppily re-etched crown stamps, garish colours, thick toffee-apple varnish and so on.  I do not have the skill or knowledge to do them complete justice, but will always be trying my best.

Please do not stop dropping in this sort of information.

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#185 jonnygrouville

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 05:29 PM

Not wanting to spoil the thread, some of the refinishing I plan to do over the winter... not for the faint-hearted...

Unless employees at the MacGregor factory in the 1960s were having long, liquid lunches, these are some pretty ham-fisting re-etching attempts...

PC160001.JPG

Can hopefully work out a way around this, but might have to just not repaint if they are really bad.

Or these M43s with crazy five screw inserts and tacky red stain seemingly amplified by the thick, thick varnish.  These have Ping grips on too...

PC160003.JPG

The shafts in all these clubs are good, but they are far from how their original designer intended.  If I could get my grubby paws on original gear still in the state their creator had in mind, trust me, I would not mess with them.

One of the clubs used by a professional for many years...

PC160002.JPG

...which I will, on the other hand, probably never touch.  Because I don't have to.  Plays great, looks mean, what's not to like?


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#186 Fellaheen51

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 06:00 PM

I like the look of the black D in that last pic Jonny.  I've become enamored of late with the all black look of some persimmons seen here and there.  All the persimmons ITT are wonderful to look at, but I would be very nervous with trying to play any of them out of concern for marring them up.  And a couple of rough resto attempts I've tried have been very much less than satisfactory.  Like the idea of taking clubhead of middling grain quality and giving it the all black semi-gloss look.  Kudos to you for giving restoration a try.  Practice makes perfect is the adage.
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

O.G.A. - Mitglied Nummer Sechs

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#187 robert horneman

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:58 AM

View PostTexsport, on 13 November 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

The best fairway woods ever may be Wood Bros Fairway Instruments.

Dave Wood has told me several times that he tested them against metal woods, with Tour pros at MacGregor, and the persimmon was preferred because of the ease of launch and compact size.

Texsport
Hi Texsport, I wonder if when you next talk with Dave Wood , could ask him what the name of the etching tool he refers to in his refinishing article? I would like to buy one.
Thanks

Edited by robert horneman, 17 December 2015 - 09:59 AM.


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#188 Texsport

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:38 AM

View Postrobert horneman, on 17 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 13 November 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

The best fairway woods ever may be Wood Bros Fairway Instruments.

Dave Wood has told me several times that he tested them against metal woods, with Tour pros at MacGregor, and the persimmon was preferred because of the ease of launch and compact size.

Texsport
Hi Texsport, I wonder if when you next talk with Dave Wood , could ask him what the name of the etching tool he refers to in his refinishing article? I would like to buy one.
Thanks

I can, but have you seen the etching and stamping freshening tips on his web site, in the golf club section?

davewoodarts.com

Texsport

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#189 robert horneman

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 09:19 AM

View PostTexsport, on 17 December 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

View Postrobert horneman, on 17 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

View PostTexsport, on 13 November 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

The best fairway woods ever may be Wood Bros Fairway Instruments.

Dave Wood has told me several times that he tested them against metal woods, with Tour pros at MacGregor, and the persimmon was preferred because of the ease of launch and compact size.

Texsport
Hi Texsport, I wonder if when you next talk with Dave Wood , could ask him what the name of the etching tool he refers to in his refinishing article? I would like to buy one.
Thanks

I can, but have you seen the etching and stamping freshening tips on his web site, in the golf club section?

davewoodarts.com

Texsport
Thanks Texsport, Yes, I like how he does the etching in his club section. I am interested in the electric etching tool he uses. I would like to buy one.

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#190 Texsport

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 05:01 PM

I sent him a note and will report the answer.

Texsport


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#191 jonnygrouville

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 05:58 PM

View PostFellaheen51, on 16 December 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

I like the look of the black D in that last pic Jonny.  I've become enamored of late with the all black look of some persimmons seen here and there.  All the persimmons ITT are wonderful to look at, but I would be very nervous with trying to play any of them out of concern for marring them up.  And a couple of rough resto attempts I've tried have been very much less than satisfactory.  Like the idea of taking clubhead of middling grain quality and giving it the all black semi-gloss look.  Kudos to you for giving restoration a try.  Practice makes perfect is the adage.

The firing-pin is a beauty.  Kind of shallow-faced two wood.  Great off the deck.  Piercing, rising flight.

I have had a modicum of success using black leather dye on woods at the suggestion of Ken Macpherson who is always good for a Harry Busson story.  Apparently he had a tub of permanent markers on his workbench and would often use them to touch-up edges and corners of woods.  Skills.

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#192 teevons

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 10:35 PM

View PostIronmaster Oddities, on 16 December 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

View Postjonnygrouville, on 16 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tony Lema clubs!  Deep-face!!  From San Fransisco!!!  Get out of my dreams and into my car.  That has to be the coolest thing I have ever heard.  This guy was a legend.

Have it!

Posted Image

So much lag that palm tree is getting out of the way.

How have I got this far through my golfing career without knowing that these existed?

Posted Image

I have a Tony Lema Golden Gate SW that matches
Uncle Bob
here is a Lema Golden gate putter, hickory shaft, unfortunate not legal for hickory sanctioned play, great putter, love the center shaft

Attached Thumbnails

  • lema1.jpg
  • lema.jpg


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#193 robert horneman

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 07:27 AM

View PostTexsport, on 18 December 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

I sent him a note and will report the answer.

Texsport
Thanks, I will watch for the info

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#194 Texsport

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 02:55 PM

Bob,

Dave tells me he sent you the answer today.

Good luck with your projects.

Texsport

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#195 gripandrip

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 04:16 PM

Got a full set 1-4 of Ben Hogans, but they were refinished in dark walnut which destroyed the beauty.

I'll have to dig out my old McGregor MT's and post. That club was beautiful.

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#196 scomac2002

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 04:43 PM

Good candidates for a proper refinishing back to period correct.  A winter project perhaps?
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#197 robert horneman

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 08:12 AM

View PostTexsport, on 19 December 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Bob,

Dave tells me he sent you the answer today.

Good luck with your projects.

Texsport
Yes I got an excellent response from Dave today.

Thanks

Bob

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#198 jonnygrouville

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 03:36 PM

Love those sole-plates, but the driver with the horn-slip is cool as you like.  Nothing on the bottom but tee-flashes.

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#199 teevons

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 07:30 PM

another set of Fernquest johnson, real cool grain, original finish is a unique green

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  • f&j2.jpg

Edited by teevons, 22 December 2015 - 10:01 PM.


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#200 Texsport

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 10:03 PM

Just a stunning finish and grain!

Texsport


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#201 jonnygrouville

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 06:10 AM

Beautiful.  No other words.

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#202 robert horneman

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 12:00 PM

I'm sorry that grain does not appeal to me. Different strokes for different folks.

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#203 Texsport

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

What if they were finished a different color?

Texsport

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#204 robert horneman

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 07:59 AM

i don't care for the wide straight grain.

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#205 freddiec

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:50 PM

Pure and solid block. One I love to hit.. 1987 Wood Bros 9*. A_9WB_Cwn1.jpg


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#206 Texsport

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 07:30 PM

freddiec has got some great grained woods!

Beauty!

Texsport

Edited by Texsport, 31 December 2015 - 07:22 AM.


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#207 teevons

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 07:54 PM

Great grain/Cleveland Ben Crenshaw driver

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#208 teevons

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 08:37 PM

Crenshaw in the sun today

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#209 golfnut1964

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 09:45 PM

simply an amazing thread...great collections thnx so much for sharing everyone.
If those leftys early in the thread ever come up for sale I will be all over them !

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#210 teevons

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 06:29 PM

Found this on rack today, Tommy Armour Tourney 945W with beautiful horseshoe grain

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