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The great big basketball thread


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#61 MtlJeff

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

OJ Mayo goes for 30 tonight, like i said earlier in the thread i expect big things from him this year, playing on a team where he'll really get a lot of looks and will have unlimited creative opportunities in a mostly unscripted offense. It will suit a really dynamic player like him

Harden 8-24, no one else on the Rockets had more then 13 points. Expect that a lot this season (not the 8-24, i like Harden, but the zero help)

I am probably the biggest Westbrook fan in the world based on all the heat he takes. I love the guy. He faced so much adversity, took all the blame 2 years ago, now he's going to be relentlessly compared to Harden. Last year in the playoffs he took over games for stretches in ways not many other guys in the league can. Re-watch game 4 of the finals when he went for 43-7-5 and Miami literally couldn't keep him out of the lane. Keep in mind Harden didn't play well in the finals. His shot selection is improving, and he is the most explosive player other then Lebron James on the break.

I'll take Westbrook any day of the week for a basketball team. In fact right now i'd take him over any PG in the NBA. (think about it, Chris Paul is a little banged up, so is Rose, Deron Williams has had a fairly meh couple of years, Kyrie Irving isn't quite there but is close)

I love Westbrook. Quote me on that one! Not traditional, but a great scorer who happens to be a PG. Doesn't mean he is selfish. He is not Stephon Marbury. His point come within the scope of the offense

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#62 MacDaddyMike

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 03 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

View PostMacDaddyMike, on 03 November 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 29 October 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

people are going a bit crazy with the impact of this trade though. Latest ESPN NBA power rankings they moved OKC behind Boston. That must be an early april fools joke. Ummm, they didn't trade Durant folks.

So a starting 5 of Russell Westbrook (cusp of franchise player-dom), Kevin Martin (3 time 23+ PPG seasons, horrible defense mind you), Kevin Durant (at worst 3rd best player in league), Serge Ibaka (DPOY candidate, 15-20 foot range, superfreak) and Kendrick Perkins (ultimate team guy, dirty work, rebounds, toughness)....and a bench that features Thabo Sefalosha (grade A defense), Eric Maynor (quality backup point) and 2 solid rookies in Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones is suddenly not really a contender? Behind Boston?????

Bah. Just watch
Yeah Harden didnt help okc that much. He was only the 6th man of the year. And with his new team he scored 82 points in the first 2 games. But i agree with you. . . They didnt trade Durant but they did trade there 3rd best player and that would have a impact on most teams.

In OKC's first 2 games they lost on a buzzer beater to one of the top 3-4 teams in the league, and then convincingly beat Portland who was coming off a win and is semi decent. Harden's replacement, Kevin Martin has played fairly well in both games and was 3-3 from downtown last night. They will also get some production from Lamb who is going to brought along slowly, but just a few months ago was being touted as one of the steals of the draft at #12. Not to mention the 2 first round picks they got from Houston, one of which is from Toronto and will surely be in the lottery.

No one is saying Harden isn't a great player, but he's going to have carte blanche to shoot as much as he wants and do whatever he wants. I expect him to put up great numbers this year just like T-Mac did when he went to Orlando. It doesn't mean he would have put up those stats in the OKC's team framework, obviously. I don't know how anyone could look at OKC this season and think they aren't a contender with their current roster. And what's Houston going to do on those nights when Harden doesn't score 45? Ask Omar Asik to put up 25-15? Or Chandler Parsons? They have 45-50M a year tied up to Asik, Jeremy Lin and Harden. Not exactly Bosh/Wade/James. And they don't have first round draft picks to boot. Let's not judge the trade based on 2 games, even if they had resigned Harden there was a good chance they were going to have to trade Ibaka next season. The 4 guys they had were always going to have a tough time staying together.

My choice would have been Harden over Ibaka. But doesn't mean the Thunder aren't still one of the 3-4 best teams in the league in their "rebuilding" year
Yeah i agree. I'm liking how Kevin Martin is playing. I still see the Thunder atleast in the western conference finals.
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#63 mnplayer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

Kevin Martin with 28. Westbrook and Durant both with bad shooting nights though. Martin can produce the scoring, but they're still missing that energy, defense, and leadership Harden had with that second unit though.

#64 MtlJeff

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:15 PM

I can't believe how little Lamb and Perry Jones are playing. 2 of 3 games were DNP's. Still really early in the season i guess especially for Lamb who didn't get a preseason in OKC.

Funny start to the year. LAL and OKC, BOS, Denver all looking not so great. Orlando with 2 relative blowouts. What's going on here LOL???? When did Glen Davis and JJ redick become the best inside-outside combo in the league???

BTW, no way JJ Redick finishes this season in Orlando. He is perfect for a contender. Expiring contract, great shooter and hustle guy and an improved defender. He's an underrated guy who could really contribute on a contender. Maybe Dallas as a Mayo backup, or Indiana who could use some more shooters
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#65 mnplayer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:24 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 04 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

I can't believe how little Lamb and Perry Jones are playing. 2 of 3 games were DNP's. Still really early in the season i guess especially for Lamb who didn't get a preseason in OKC.
I guess they're redshirting them, haha. But in all seriousness, there are quite a few rookies not getting time. Royce White has yet to play a single minute, and Kendall Marshall(the supposed heir to Steve Nash's throne) has 1 minute under his belt. Terrence Jones, who I think can end up being a decent player hasn't played either. But Royce White is a special player, I've watched him since he played high school ball here in MN and he's going to end up being quite a player.

Edited by mnplayer, 04 November 2012 - 11:25 PM.


#66 tjumper78

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:38 AM

cant remember the last time my knicks started the season with 2-0 record.
loving the hustle plays by melo.
the defense is crazy good even without shumpert and camby.
the extra passes are giving us so many wide open 3's, thanks to felton, kidd, and pablo in point guard posistions.
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#67 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

i've always been a college basketball guy. caught the NBA end of may towards end of playoffs. for some reason this year i'm really interested in watching more games. not just the Pacers, but the NBA in general. hopefully the NBA can keep the momentum they have going.

on a side note, anyone seen pics of the Pacers new scoreboard. largest indoor HD curved screen in the world. pretty ridiculous.

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#68 scratchswinger

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 03 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

OJ Mayo goes for 30 tonight, like i said earlier in the thread i expect big things from him this year, playing on a team where he'll really get a lot of looks and will have unlimited creative opportunities in a mostly unscripted offense. It will suit a really dynamic player like him

Harden 8-24, no one else on the Rockets had more then 13 points. Expect that a lot this season (not the 8-24, i like Harden, but the zero help)

I am probably the biggest Westbrook fan in the world based on all the heat he takes. I love the guy. He faced so much adversity, took all the blame 2 years ago, now he's going to be relentlessly compared to Harden. Last year in the playoffs he took over games for stretches in ways not many other guys in the league can. Re-watch game 4 of the finals when he went for 43-7-5 and Miami literally couldn't keep him out of the lane. Keep in mind Harden didn't play well in the finals. His shot selection is improving, and he is the most explosive player other then Lebron James on the break.

I'll take Westbrook any day of the week for a basketball team. In fact right now i'd take him over any PG in the NBA. (think about it, Chris Paul is a little banged up, so is Rose, Deron Williams has had a fairly meh couple of years, Kyrie Irving isn't quite there but is close)

I love Westbrook. Quote me on that one! Not traditional, but a great scorer who happens to be a PG. Doesn't mean he is selfish. He is not Stephon Marbury. His point come within the scope of the offense

How much of the 43 points do you think has to do with the game plan being to let Westbrook do what he wants and try to contain Durant and others the best as possible? If Westbrook goes for 43 that means the ball is out of OKC's best players hands. For me personally, I would prefer my PG have 25 points and 15 assists over 43 points and 7 assist. Don't get me wrong he had a huge game last year in the finals and I am not trying to discredit that. But I think the plan was to let Westbrook beat them, if he does hats off. But chances are that the team will be much less efficient and easier to beat with BW taking a majority of the shots. I think he has the opportunity to be great but he needs to know his role as the 2nd best scorer on his team.

#69 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:36 PM

^^^Westbrook's a ballhog.  The heat he takes is warranted (get KD the freakin ball dude)....

I take Paul, Williams, Rondo over him easily.  And this is coming from a SoCal guy who watched him at UCLA and roots for Bruin basketball.

Oh yeah, add Kyrie to that list too.

Edited by Son_of_Sahm, 05 November 2012 - 10:38 PM.


#70 mnplayer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

My Wolves just had a huge comeback over the Nets. I really like the way we're looking early, especially without Love and Rubio. Got a good balance going. And Kyrie Irving doesn't have the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Westbrook shouldn't be taking shots away from Durant, and most of them aren't good shots.


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#71 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:47 PM

And last but not least, go Lakers!  We're not looking great so far, but we should be a handful in the playoffs.

#72 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

View Postmnplayer, on 05 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

My Wolves just had a huge comeback over the Nets. I really like the way we're looking early, especially without Love and Rubio. Got a good balance going. And Kyrie Irving doesn't have the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Westbrook shouldn't be taking shots away from Durant, and most of them aren't good shots.

Yup.  Sheeeeeet. I may want to take Rubio over Russell, too.  With Westbrook and Durant, it's like in the early 2000s when Kobe was taking shots away from Shaq...   But Kobe wasn't a pg, and Shaq, unlike KD, was anything but clutch due to his inability to make free throws.

#73 scratchswinger

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostSon_of_Sahm, on 05 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

View Postmnplayer, on 05 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

My Wolves just had a huge comeback over the Nets. I really like the way we're looking early, especially without Love and Rubio. Got a good balance going. And Kyrie Irving doesn't have the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Westbrook shouldn't be taking shots away from Durant, and most of them aren't good shots.

Yup.  Sheeeeeet. I may want to take Rubio over Russell, too.  With Westbrook and Durant, it's like in the early 2000s when Kobe was taking shots away from Shaq...   But Kobe wasn't a pg, and Shaq, unlike KD, was anything but clutch due to his inability to make free throws.

And Westbrook ain't no mamba.

#74 scratchswinger

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

In my eyes BW is the 6th best PG.

1) Paul
2) Rondo
3) D Will
4) Rose
5) Nash
6) Westbrook
7) Parker
8) Irving
9) Ty Lawson
10) Damian Lillard (Google Him)

#75 mnplayer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 05 November 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

View PostSon_of_Sahm, on 05 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

View Postmnplayer, on 05 November 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

My Wolves just had a huge comeback over the Nets. I really like the way we're looking early, especially without Love and Rubio. Got a good balance going. And Kyrie Irving doesn't have the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Westbrook shouldn't be taking shots away from Durant, and most of them aren't good shots.

Yup.  Sheeeeeet. I may want to take Rubio over Russell, too.  With Westbrook and Durant, it's like in the early 2000s when Kobe was taking shots away from Shaq...   But Kobe wasn't a pg, and Shaq, unlike KD, was anything but clutch due to his inability to make free throws.

And Westbrook ain't no mamba.
Kobe quoted at saying he wants to play until he's 40!! But he's looked good this year, getting his numbers with less effort and not jacking up 30 shots. Pau has also looked really really good this year. One of the best passing bigs in the league. And as I speak, Irving finishes with 16 in the first quarter


#76 scratchswinger

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

Pau and D12's two man game will soon be the Unstoppable Force in the NBA with Kobe setup on one side of the court and Nash on the other it will be very difficult for teams to defend. Or run the pick and role with Nash and D12. Or iso Kobe. Or mid post Kobe. Oh my god it's going to be unreal when this thing gets rolling. Absolutely zero panic from Scratch!

#77 mnplayer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

I've watched all their games so far and I don't see Howard even thinking of going anywhere else. You guys just gotta get that bench figured out. Any chance Fish would consider coming back? I know Kobe was supposed to be making a push for him this past offseason.

#78 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:34 PM

Well yeah.  Our bench aint great, but they're better then they've played.

I think we just need a few games. If we're at 500 come all star break, i'll be worried.  

It's a process.  We need some reps.

#79 scratchswinger

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:30 AM

Front office does not want Fish back for the same reason he was traded. They don't want his shadow of leadership and relationship with Kobe to get in the way of the current PG (last year Sessions, this year Nash). Bench and Mike Brown are my concerns. I'm hoping we can pickup some shooters off waivers or the trade deadline, later in the year. Mike Brown needs to prove that he can make adjustments in the Playoffs.

MNPlayer- you sound like you are a Laker fan at heart?

I wish we could get a few of the Clippers bench players. They will be 11 deep when Grant Hill and Billups return, look at this squad. I'm not a Clippers fan at all but their front office has really done a good job.

22 Matt Barnes
1 Chauncey Billups
12 Eric Bledsoe
5 Caron Butler
11 Jamal Crawford
34 Willie Green
32 Blake Griffin
33 Grant Hill SF
15 Ryan Hollins
6 DeAndre Jordan
23 Travis Leslie
7 Lamar Odom
3 Chris Paul
9 Trey Thompkins
21 Ronny Turiaf

Edited by scratchswinger, 06 November 2012 - 09:42 AM.


#80 MtlJeff

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 05 November 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

In my eyes BW is the 6th best PG.

1) Paul
2) Rondo
3) D Will
4) Rose
5) Nash
6) Westbrook
7) Parker
8) Irving
9) Ty Lawson
10) Damian Lillard (Google Him)

Point guard is really in the eye of the beholder i guess. I don't want to disagree too much because everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really like Westbrook, I mean Durant led the league in scoring 2 years in a row so how many shots can Russell be taking from him. Derrick Rose can average 24ppg and no one calls him a ballhog even when he is the primary scorer on his team. Westbrook IS the second best scorer on his team so he should be taking a similar number of shots to Durant, at least that is my opinion. As long as he takes them without disrupting the framework of the offense i am OK with that. But anyway, we can agree to disagree there are a lot of great PG's and everyone is looking for something different

I'd probably rank them (assuming everyone is healthy, except Chris Paul who is never going to be 100% again)

1) Derrick Rose (great scorer, great teammate, unselfish, 2 way player)
2) Chris Paul (sees the floor better then anyone in the league, can turn it on but always plays at 80%)
3) Tony Parker (why is he never rated higher? San Antonio moves the ball better then any team in the NBA, and he can score)
4) Russell Westbrook (Yeah yeah)
5) Rajon Rondo (big game player, can cover 1's or 2's, great vision and creativity, best rebounding PG in the league)
6) Kyrie Irving (he might be #1 by the end of the year if he keeps playing the way he is, seriously watch the Cavs JUST for him)
7) Deron Williams (i don't like Deron, there i said it. He doesn't seem like a great leader, is he a stats guy or a winner? I don't know)
8) Steve Nash (offensive savant, defensive opposite-of-savant)
9) Ty Lawson (the faster player in the league and an improved crunch time scorer)
10) Mike Conley Jr (one of the best defensive guards, all around good scorer and passer, underrated)

not willing to put Lillard in the top 10 yet

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#81 MtlJeff

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

Scratch, serious question. If you are the GM of Boston are you turning down Westbrook for Rondo straight up? I am a Rondo fan, but i really feel like Boston makes that trade and OKC doesn't

Same for D-Will. If i'm Sam Presti there's no way i take Deron back for Russell, but i feel like Brooklyn makes that deal

Chris Paul is the prototype i'll give you that. I feel like him hurting his knees was a terrible break for basketball in general. Screw the clips or Hornets. Basketball in general. Chris Paul at 100% would have been a gift to every true basketball fan. It hurts me to even think about it....bah!!!!
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#82 MtlJeff

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

speaking of trades, let's say you're the GM of New Orleans. What does it take for you to give up Anthony Davis?

I say he's effectively untouchable already. Bill Simmons does his trade value column every year and i think he's already #3 behind only Lebron and Durant
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#83 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

^^^ too early to say imo...  I just know that in the NBA, unlike in golf, people often love potential more than performance.  And reporters, in all sports, love to jump the gun.  As of today, there's at least 20 players I wouldn't dream of trading straight up for Davis.

#84 MtlJeff

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

Well that is certainly true. You wouldn't say say Davis is better then Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge right now, but if either one was offered to the Hornets for Davis, Dell Demps would laugh for 25 minutes approximately before hanging up. So naturally potential has a lot to do with trade value
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#85 mnplayer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:20 PM

Scratch- I've always been a Lakers fan but I'm a T-Wolves fan first, ironic that the lakers used to be here, but anyways. I think that Fish just brought so much to that team that doesn't show up in the box score. Since we're talking PG's I'll give you guys my list. Like Jeff said this is really tough, depends on what you're looking for. Also, assuming everyone is healthy.
1. Rose
2. Paul
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Westbrook
6. Williams
7. Nash
8. Irving
8.Rubio
9. Lawson
10. Lillard


#86 Son_of_Sahm

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:32 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 06 November 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Well that is certainly true. You wouldn't say say Davis is better then Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge right now, but if either one was offered to the Hornets for Davis, Dell Demps would laugh for 25 minutes approximately before hanging up. So naturally potential has a lot to do with trade value

Of course potential has a lot to do with it.  That's why Darko, Kwame, Hasheem, and lots of euros I can't name right now, etc... were drafted at their respective spots.  Potential can also be a shot in the dark.  A short while ago, few, if any, NBA pundits would have traded John Wall for Lamarcus Aldridge.  Now, Portland's gm would laugh for 25 seconds before hanging up.  And not just because Lillard is good.

I'm saying potential is great, but still overrated in the NBA.

#87 scratchswinger

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View PostMtlJeff, on 06 November 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Scratch, serious question. If you are the GM of Boston are you turning down Westbrook for Rondo straight up? I am a Rondo fan, but i really feel like Boston makes that trade and OKC doesn't

Same for D-Will. If i'm Sam Presti there's no way i take Deron back for Russell, but i feel like Brooklyn makes that deal

Chris Paul is the prototype i'll give you that. I feel like him hurting his knees was a terrible break for basketball in general. Screw the clips or Hornets. Basketball in general. Chris Paul at 100% would have been a gift to every true basketball fan. It hurts me to even think about it....bah!!!!

The difference between BW and Rondo is that Rondo knows he is not good enough be the #1 on a championship team. Because of this he will defer down the stretch and look to make his teammates better. BW thinks he is the man and wants everyone to know it. His jump shot ain't good enough, he doesn't make others better and he takes too many bad shots. What made Scotty Pippen so great? Because he was arguably the best #2 ever and he was cool with that. Would the Bulls had won 6 titles if he was always challenging MJ? BW will never be better at being the #1 than Durant. But he could be the best #2 in the league if he just accepted it.

View Postmnplayer, on 06 November 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Scratch- I've always been a Lakers fan but I'm a T-Wolves fan first, ironic that the lakers used to be here, but anyways. I think that Fish just brought so much to that team that doesn't show up in the box score. Since we're talking PG's I'll give you guys my list. Like Jeff said this is really tough, depends on what you're looking for. Also, assuming everyone is healthy.
1. Rose
2. Paul
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Westbrook
6. Williams
7. Nash
8. Irving
8.Rubio
9. Lawson
10. Lillard

Fisher needs to come back as a coach. As a player he really has nothing left, he is a complete liability on defense and his entire game eroded to sitting in the corner and waiting for a 3 on offense. His entire defensive strategy was to try and get in front of someone in transition and take a charge. It would be cool to see him come back as a player coach or assistant. I agree that be brings a lot to the table, probably the most important was his relationship with Mamba and being the buffer between Kobe and the other teammates. I never thought I would say this but I actually miss Fish and the left handed Rainbow jumper from the corner. It seemed like it stayed in the air long enough to grind my teeth to stubs while cringing. But the dude made some big shots.

#88 scratchswinger

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:07 AM

Do you guys think Rose will still have that same lightning first step after knee surgery? Does he have enough to be the same player if the first step and jumping ability isn't the same?

#89 MtlJeff

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 07 November 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Do you guys think Rose will still have that same lightning first step after knee surgery? Does he have enough to be the same player if the first step and jumping ability isn't the same?

I don't think he's the same player without the first step, but he's still good enough to be a top 5 PG. He's bigger then most people realize and i think worst case could develop some Andre Miller like moves because of that. Post up smaller guards and what not. He's too smart a basketball player to not succeed even with a bit slower first step.

I don't think he has a great year this season though. Next season will be the test
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#90 MtlJeff

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

BTW i hope you guys know i don't care if we disagree on things like Westbrook and all. I'm just happy to talk hoops with you guys....it's all in good fun

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