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The great big basketball thread


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#1 MtlJeff

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:48 PM

OK, so 2012-2013 season is almost upon us. Where are all my buddies from the Dwight Howard thread of several months ago??? Time to talk some hoops. I am super excited for this season. There are A LOT of interesting teams and stories

1) The Dwight trade was awesome, because it made 3 teams decidedly better and made the team that had the best piece decidedly worse LOL.....ahhhhh Orlando. Way to get all the worst players in the deal while 3 teams are now better. Nice job!

2) How about Dallas? "Hey maybe we'll get Dwight and Deron....what? We're not? Crap who's left, throw money at them!!!! Do you hear me!!! Chris Kaman, OJ Mayo, we can make this work!"

3) Did Phoenix just take Houston's 2 best players so Houston could overpay Jeremy Lin? Did that happen?

4) Why did Orlando let Ryan Anderson walk? Do you realize NO has Austin Rivers, Eric Gordon, Aminu, Ryan Anderson and the Unibrow? How did they go from horrible to suddenly a team you really want to watch

5) Is there a team other then the Lakers, Thunder or Heat that can win? My gut says "not in a million, trillion years" One of those 3 teams is taking it this year unless Chris Paul gets new knees through an experimental procedure, and Blake Griffin makes one heck of a leap

6) Is OKC going to pay James Harden in a few weeks? They have to right?


I mentioned the Dwight trade. Here are 2 sneaky good teams:

Denver: Ty Lawson made a leap of sorts in 2011-2012. Danilo had injuries last year, Wilson Chandler had china syndrome, the Javale Mcgee trade halfway through the season. There was a lot of stuff going on in Denver last year. This year they have a lot more consistency, and they added the most underrated player in the NBA, Andre Iguodala. Their starting 5 is ridiculously athletic and can play defense. So can Corey Brewer off the bench. If Lawson and Gallo become a crunch time scorers this is a better team then you think

Philly: I don't like a season resting on Andrew Bynum. But he actually is a dominant big man when he, you know, tries. They added Jason Richardson who most know as a dunker, but he is a really accomplished 3 point shooter aswell who can get really hot. Evan Turner and Jrue Holiday should get better. Thaddeous Young and Lavoy Allen are energy guys off the bench. They still have Spencer Hawes to go big on people. And they have erratic gunner Nick Young who has promised to get at least 1 assist this season.



Oh, and i'll take the Lakers. I hate saying that. But if a team with desperate-for-a-title-Nash, needs-a-title-to-tie-MJ-Kobe, i-just-want-to-defend-and-rebound Dwight and ummm....ummm...i have nothing to say about Pau other then he is good...doesn't win....well then kudos to whomever beats them

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#2 TexMex36

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

I'm hoping that Boston does well this season without Ray Allen. My favorite player goes to my least favorite team. Hopefully Rondo can keep the turnover numbers low this season and KG and The Truth stay healthy. I think if these things happen they will give Miami some trouble in the playoffs. I'm just happy that the East isn't as deep as the West.

#3 mnplayer

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:20 PM

Lakers will win the finals. Kobe Bryant will be a completely different man with a true point guard and he won't have to carry the team every night, it'll be fun watching them this year.
Denver was a really exciting team last year and I think Iggy fits in really well in that George Karl system.
Phoenix has the next Nash in Kendall Marshall, but they also took Beasley and Wes Johnson from us here in MN so that sucks for them.
My Timberwolves improved immensely on paper this year, who knows how Roy and AK47 will hold up throughout the year. Hopefully we can float around .500 until Love and Rubio are back.
Also, look out for the Nuggets and Grizzlies to make deep playoff runs, and my T-Wolves of course. And about the Clippers, can you say overrated?

#4 MtlJeff

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:45 PM

I feel like the west is deep beyond belief. I mean there are teams that will finish in the 8-10 spots that are genuinely good and entertaining teams. Minnesota might not make the playoffs with Rubio, Brandon Roy, AK47, Kevin Love and Nik Pekovic . They might not make the playoffs with that team! With genuinely good players and a guy who just had one of the best statistical seasons that a PF has ever had!

What if the unibrow goes crazy this year too? Certainly possible....they have Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, Austin Rivers. And this is a team that won't sniff the playoffs.

The west is l-o-a-d-e-d

LA Lakers: On paper one of the best starting 5's....well....well....in a looooooong time
OKC: Oh not much other then 4 guys under 25 who almost any team in the NBA would give a max deal to
SA: Could win 50 games while literally sleeping, and while Tony Parker has sex with the entire cast of an ABC sitcom at halftime
LA Clippers: Chris Paul, Chris Paul, Chris Paul....They return their starting 5 and add Grant Hill, Lamar Odom (ok don't laugh, he was good in LA right?), Matt Barnes , Jamal Crawford etc
Dallas: Don't quit on a team with Dirk Nowitzki surrounded by quality, unspectacular veterans. BTW i expect a huge season from OJ Mayo. You have been warned
Denver: The most athletic starting 5 in the league by about 200% and a burgeoning star in Ty Lawson
Memphis: DON'T YOU SEE, WE ARE AT #7, number friggin 7...and it's Mike Conley and Tony Allen (one of the best defensive backcourts in basketball), Rudy Gay, Z-Bo and Marc Gasol. I repeat, this is a fringe playoff team in the west
Minnesota: Rubio, Love, Pekovic...Brandon Roy....

and then you have Utah, Phoenix, Houston....all very solid teams that will MISS the playoffs. Go look at their rosters. Go look and report back

the west is LOADED
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#5 mnplayer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:09 PM

I agree with you on Mayo. I though he might be the answer to MN's problems at the 2 guard. He should have a really nice season, I think the change of scenery will do him good. How do you guys the Bulls will fare without Rose? Also will be very interesting to see how Austin Rivers will do, if you ask me he isn't a point guard.


#6 MtlJeff

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

The Bulls are going to have a tough year. Everything they do is based around Rose. When he doesn't play they are just a collection of excellent defenders and jump shooters. A good team no doubt, but as Philly showed last season in the playoffs they don't have enough ability to create plays without D-Rose, or with a recovering D-Rose. Bill Simmons wrote last year that Rose's injury was one of the most significant major injuries in NBA history, given how good Derrick was and how much his team depended on him

The Heat, IMO, can coast their way to an NBA finals appearance. There is no one, no one, in that conference remotely close to them. The Knicks, Nets, Celtics, Pacers, 76ers are good but if the Heat are on the 10th floor, those guys are on the 6th. Know what i mean?

Austin Rivers to me is another Tyreke Evans type player. But he's Doc's kid. He'll fit in. Plus he's going to be playing with a dominant big man and a superstar 2-guard. He won't be thrown into things like Evans was, who basically had a carte blanche to do whatever he wanted and that was kind of bad.

Bill Simmons made an excellent point about Rivers too. Everyone loves Damian Lillard, but Rivers put up a bit worse numbers in college as a freshman in a major conference, then Lillard did in a mid major conference and 4 years older. Who would you rather have?
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#7 ben w

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

it'll be interesting when New Orleans plays Boston, and Doc Rivers runs isolation for Rondo to essentially score at will against his son.

Can you imagine that dinner table conversation?
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#8 Myherobobhope

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

MTL: I love you, but you read too much Bill Simmons.

#9 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:15 PM

How about those Pacers! not a team i expect to contend for title but maybe slightly better than last year and they were # in east and took miami to 6 games.

normally i'm not excited for the NBA to start. more of a college guy but this year even with IU at #1 i'm still looking forward to watching some NBA
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#10 MtlJeff

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

View Postben w, on 24 October 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

it'll be interesting when New Orleans plays Boston, and Doc Rivers runs isolation for Rondo to essentially score at will against his son.

Can you imagine that dinner table conversation?

haha, it is kind of funny to think about. Will he give Rondo some extra tips for how to get into Austin's head? Where does his loyalty really lie LOL

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#11 MtlJeff

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:22 PM

View PostMyherobobhope, on 24 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

MTL: I love you, but you read too much Bill Simmons.

I've read the book of basketball (which is 700 pages BTW) probably 10 times over.

He rarely writes anymore, mostly podcasts.

But i have to hand it to him, he really is a great writer. He and Gregg Easterbrook are probably my 2 favorite sports writers. Though i rarely read TMQ anymore since i don't watch football these days

Chuck Klosterman is an amazing writer too. Pick up Eating the dinosaur or sex,drugs and cocoa puffs, they are tough to put down. Though the latter is a little dated now
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#12 MtlJeff

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostHoosierMizuno, on 24 October 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

How about those Pacers! not a team i expect to contend for title but maybe slightly better than last year and they were # in east and took miami to 6 games.

normally i'm not excited for the NBA to start. more of a college guy but this year even with IU at #1 i'm still looking forward to watching some NBA

i like the Pacers a lot but you're right, they can't contend. They are like a BMW 550 racing against a BMW M5 when it comes to Miami. They just don't have the horsepower to keep up and that was painfully evident whenever the Heat went on one of their patented runs. They have big men, the hustle, they have Paul George who is a future star. But they have no one to lean on to score points. When your best scorer is Danny Granger, who shoots 38% and doesn't get to the rim super well......that is kind of a problem
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#13 M.C.H.

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

I'll take the Grizzlies to win it all this year.
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#14 MtlJeff

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

If a 7-8 seed ever wins the NBA title, it will be the grizzlies. They play excellent perimeter defense, rebound well and have a couple of guys with low post moves and a flair for big games
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#15 scratchswinger

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:25 PM

"Dwight Howard_Dumb" was probably one of the most entertaining threads in 2012. CourJester is a genius as the Lakers struggle to win one came in the preseason. I cannot wait to bring that thread back from the dead when the Lakers make the finals.

The NBA is far and away the most predictable sport. Baring injuries this is a three team race and everyone else will be lucky to advance in the playoffs.

Heat: Cake walk into the NBA Finals, there is really no team in the East that can push them past 6 games. LBJ is truly a once in a lifetime talent, when it's all said and done I'm scared he might be better than MJ.

OKC: I don't think they added anyone to the roster that will really make them better. I am afraid that they had a one year window that the Lakers closed when getting D12. Okay I give them a 2 year window... IF they can get by LA again then I actually like their chances against The Heat. I hate to say this but I would not be surprised if OKC never wins an NBA Title. Two years ago it looked like the sky was the limit, with the Lakers additions and the free agency looming they have a big decision ahead of them. Do you sign Harden or Ibaka? The obvious choice is to sign Harden but that poses a big problem. Who will you get to defend D12 for the next 3 years assuming he re-ups with the Lakers?

Lakers: I don't think we will have the best record in the West but I think we will be an extremely difficult out for any team. Kobe looks fresh, Nash is ageless and no big in the NBA does what D12 can. Mike Brown is still unproven in my book and he is the weakness along with our bench. I think he needs to get a rotation where there is always 1 or 2 starters on the court with the 2nd unit. Phil used to sub 5 guys at a time because he could. Mike Brown does not have the luxury, he needs to keep the vets rested for the playoffs but at the same time he needs to keep them on the court because of the lack of bench. I really think that his decisions and performance will play a bigger role in his teams outcome than any other coach. I wish we had Pop as he is a master at managing minutes. As a Laker fan we are extremly fortunate to have the ownership that we do. The team is setup to clean ship and sign the absolute best free agents... I think there will be some guy in Miami will that be a free agent around the same time. D12 and LBJ unit!!!

I think the one team that could upset any of the three above is LA Clips. They are extremely deep and this can be a huge factor as the season wears on. DeAndre Jordan looks to have found his post game which can make him a top 5 center. Add that to the best PG in Paul and a host of other talented players and you have the most exciting team in the NBA. I think they also have the best backup PG in the NBA and possibly the 6th man of the year in Bledsoe. Watch out for this team...


#16 MtlJeff

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:07 PM

I agree with you on the 3 team race

Who knows maybe OKC will never win a title, but id be surprised. They are one of the best positioned teams in any major professional sport IMO. They have Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka signed to long term deals. Durant is at worst the 3rd best player in the NBA right now. Westbrook and Ibaka are guys that any team in the league would give a max deal to and they are also on board. Westbrook is one of the more underrated players in the league I think.

Harden has done everything short of tattooing a thunder logo on this arm like in "the skulls". He has constantly hinted he'll take less money. They will sign him i'm positive

That gives the thunder 4 All-star caliber players under 25 signed to long term deals. One of whom's ceiling is "top 10 offensive player ever" and another one who's ceiling is "legitimate franchise player" (westbrook). Meanwhile their 3rd and 4th guys (ibaka and harden) are legitimate guys who you could win a title with if they are your second best player. And on this team they are 3rd and 4th

OKC could fill out their roster with Smush Parker  and 7 of his clones and contend every year
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#17 scratchswinger

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

They will have to move another contract or pay the Luxury tax for Harden. I can't see Harden taking 10 million less to stay with OKC. This will be his #2 contract which is normally the pay day for good players. I just don't see him taking less to stay with OKC.

Have you watched the Clippers play yet this preseason?

#18 mnplayer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:38 PM

3 team race but I think the Celtics can push the heat. They were in the position to win that series last year and they're a better team this season. I think Harden will leave. I'm not sure if he'll take the paycut to stay there because there are teams who'll give him the money that OKC can't. Speaking of Durant, have you guys seen his Rucker Park mix tape from this summer?

#19 MtlJeff

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 25 October 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

They will have to move another contract or pay the Luxury tax for Harden. I can't see Harden taking 10 million less to stay with OKC. This will be his #2 contract which is normally the pay day for good players. I just don't see him taking less to stay with OKC.

Have you watched the Clippers play yet this preseason?

not really a lot but i believe they'll be good. I think the Grant Hill signing was a great move. He plays good defense and is a really good leader. At crunchtime they can play him with Billups and Paul, for some serious veteran savvy, along with Griffin and Jordan. I think they lack a bit of natural scoring but are a really good team.

Sam Presti is a great GM. I can't imagine him signing Ibaka like that without some sort of plan. I always said you need to sign Harden before Ibaka. As great as it is to have a versatile forward-center like that, the Heat just showed how the league is changing. Having 3 dominant slasher-scorers sets you up for 10 years. The heat go on runs like no other team in the league can. OKC is on the verge of that. You don't mess that up. You can get a rebounder who can knock down 15 footers. He won't be Ibaka but for me the choice was always Harden over Ibaka

i just can't see Harden leaving.
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#20 scratchswinger

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

View Postmnplayer, on 25 October 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

3 team race but I think the Celtics can push the heat. They were in the position to win that series last year and they're a better team this season. I think Harden will leave. I'm not sure if he'll take the paycut to stay there because there are teams who'll give him the money that OKC can't. Speaking of Durant, have you guys seen his Rucker Park mix tape from this summer?

Link?


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#21 HoosierMizuno

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 24 October 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

View PostHoosierMizuno, on 24 October 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

How about those Pacers! not a team i expect to contend for title but maybe slightly better than last year and they were # in east and took miami to 6 games.

normally i'm not excited for the NBA to start. more of a college guy but this year even with IU at #1 i'm still looking forward to watching some NBA

i like the Pacers a lot but you're right, they can't contend. They are like a BMW 550 racing against a BMW M5 when it comes to Miami. They just don't have the horsepower to keep up and that was painfully evident whenever the Heat went on one of their patented runs. They have big men, the hustle, they have Paul George who is a future star. But they have no one to lean on to score points. When your best scorer is Danny Granger, who shoots 38% and doesn't get to the rim super well......that is kind of a problem

agreed...granger relys way too much on the 3 pointer. he'll get his points but he needs to up his shooting percentage. i think gerald green will be better than expected. it didn't help the pacers passed on some real talent in the draft and chose miles plumlee???  pacer fans weren't too happy about this.
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#22 scratchswinger

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:55 AM

Court was correct about the Lakers, now winless through preseason.

#23 MtlJeff

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:09 AM

There are a lot of rumors about the Pacers, the most common one was that Eric Gordon was going to try to go there but that is out of the question now i'd think. There are a few involving the Jazz aswell which would make a lot of sense. The Jazz are going to move Jefferson or Millsap this year they just have to, both are expiring contracts and they have Kanter and Favors who need playing time

If the Jazz start slowly this could have a big impact on the playoff race. Granger for Millsap is a rumor, though if i were the Pacers i'd go after Josh Smith if the hawks start slow but not sure how that trade could work. He is a much more dynamic player

Al Jefferson is really interesting because i feel like a team could get him for nothing. He's never gotten much press. But is big, gives you 18 and 9 and has low post moves. Wouldn't it be cool if Boston got him back for a playoff run? I mean that could really happen. And that would be an imposing team
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#24 mac94

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:19 AM

Let's go Cavs!

#25 mnplayer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

James Harden is possibly on his way to Houston according to ESPN.


#26 MtlJeff

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:36 PM

View Postmnplayer, on 27 October 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

James Harden is possibly on his way to Houston according to ESPN.

definitely on his way according to updated stories. Very very surprising. I can't believe it. I was totally wrong on that one

Harden to Houston for Kevin Martin (expiring contract probably a one and done in OKC but will help them this year) and Jeremy Lamb, 2 first rounders and a second rounder.

Interesting move for a team just in the finals. Apparently Harden turned down a 4 yr/55M deal from OKC. I honestly can't believe it. He talked so much about taking less to stay

Lamb is very highly regarded. Many considered him a steal at the 12 pick. Martin will help this year and Lamb hopefully will in the future. Plus they get 2 first rounders that will probably end up being mid first round.

Interesting move. Very interesting. Don't think it hurts OKC this year because they added a good scorer (who probably won't be kept). Long term losing Harden is something that might hurt
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#27 mnplayer

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:56 PM

I'm more surprised he turned down thee 55 mil. deal than the fact he was traded. Martin is a very solid player and gives them the scoring they lose from Harden and Lamb is also a really good player. He would've gone top 3 or 5 if he and UCONN hand't had underwhelming seasons last year. The draft this past year was crazy deep, players like Terrence Jones, Sullinger, and Royce White going outside of the lottery, crazy.

#28 scratchswinger

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

No way Martin can impact a gme like Harden. OKC was a better team yesterday then they are today. Does not surprise me at all as asking someone to sacrifice millions is a lot to ask. I think the Finals picture just got a little more clear.

Edited by scratchswinger, 28 October 2012 - 08:57 AM.


#29 MtlJeff

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

View Postscratchswinger, on 28 October 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

No way Martin can impact a gme like Harden. OKC was a better team yesterday then they are today. Does not surprise me at all as asking someone to sacrifice millions is a lot to ask. I think the Finals picture just got a little more clear.

What worries me is that Harden was a 2 way player. They'll replace his scoring on paper with Martin, and they still have Sefalosha who is a terrific defender. But Harden could do both. He could also take over games for short stretches and i don't think Martin can do that

If Lamb proves to be a pretty solid rookie and Kevin Martin plays for a contract. They still have KD, Westbrook and Ibaka, aswell as Perk

still a contender IMO
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#30 MacDaddyMike

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

James Harden gone. Sad.

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