389 replies to this topic

[J.W.]

Lefty1987, on 21 October 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

J.W., on 21 October 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Some companies make the tip softer in the heavier profiles because they're meant to be played in fairway woods.

Cheers for the review and chart. Do you have a copy of the hybrid chart? If not where the new D+ 100g hybrid shaft sits? Keen to give it a go in the 913h 19* against a 913f 19* with v2 96x

Sure, I'll post it shortly.  Fujikura 904 is still the lowest I believe, D+ 100g is not too far above it if I remember correctly.

[swanry30]

JW nailed it with some shafts are designed to play as fairway shafts - up quicker and land softer.  Also shafts like the devotion 6 were lower launching than the 7 and 8.  Others play the middle game - the DI7 flights way lower than the 6 and the 8.

Each manufacture has their own twist

The kiyoshi black sounds like a fun shaft to try as well!

[J.W.]

swanry30, on 21 October 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

JW nailed it with some shafts are designed to play as fairway shafts - up quicker and land softer.  Also shafts like the devotion 6 were lower launching than the 7 and 8.  Others play the middle game - the DI7 flights way lower than the 6 and the 8.

Each manufacture has their own twist

The kiyoshi black sounds like a fun shaft to try as well!

I always thought DI-8 was lower launching than DI-7 but I noticed exactly what you said with Oban Devotion.

[NTKT10]

J.W. would you mind posting a couple comparison pictures of the D3 vs. D2 from address?  Thanks.

[Lobber]

Which is lower spin the D3 or D2 and how much spin difference is there?

[J.W.]

NTKT10, on 21 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

J.W. would you mind posting a couple comparison pictures of the D3 vs. D2 from address?  Thanks.

I can tomorrow which loft?

[J.W.]

Lobber, on 21 October 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Which is lower spin the D3 or D2 and how much spin difference is there?

D3, how much just depends on the player.  Like I posted before its a lot closer than 910.

[Lobber]

Thanks.  Gonna get fit to do it right. Tend to be higher spin and swing 108.  Kind of in between X and S. oban Devotion works well in S flex. Can Titleist tip an S to get it in between S and X?

[Lobber]

Just read Titliest press release and it states D2 and D3 have identical launch and spin characteristics.  Draw bias in D2 and workability in D3 with slightly smaller head

[J.W.]

Lobber, on 21 October 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Just read Titliest press release and it states D2 and D3 have identical launch and spin characteristics.  Draw bias in D2 and workability in D3 with slightly smaller head

Yea I think most of us have read their release, I've still found for the very high spin player that D3 tends to be lower spinning.

[Lobber]

J.W., on 21 October 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Lobber, on 21 October 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Just read Titliest press release and it states D2 and D3 have identical launch and spin characteristics.  Draw bias in D2 and workability in D3 with slightly smaller head

Yea I think most of us have read their release, I've still found for the very high spin player that D3 tends to be lower spinning.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll get fit and see which is best for me.  Used to play a 905 S with Diamana BB 83 which is still one of the best I have ever owned

[J.W.]

Couple high end 913's in the group today...

BB-7X and VC 7.2 Tour Spec X

[mdb0103]

So, this might be a stupid question... but would someone who needs more spin benefit more from a D2 head, or a D3 with a higher spin shaft? or is it more of a trial and error thing?

[joneser]

I am not a fitter but I think its something that needs to be figured out by hitting them.  They feel different and do different things with different shafts.  I hit a bunch of different combinations and I could end up with either one and be happy.   The Anser also worked really well.

[HoosierMizuno]

Question to fitters, do you typically fit player to certain driver head and then work on finding the right shaft or the opposite, find the shaft that fits best and then start swapping heads

[superman912]

I think they get the general loft (so head) first, then tweak for launch conditions and spin using shafts.

Edited by superman912, 21 October 2012 - 08:45 PM.

[NTKT10]

J.W., on 21 October 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

NTKT10, on 21 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

J.W. would you mind posting a couple comparison pictures of the D3 vs. D2 from address?  Thanks.

I can tomorrow which loft?

8.5 or 9.5 works.  I would just like to see a better quality comparison picture of the head size/shape than what I have been able to find.  I like the D3 looks, but wouldn't mind the added forgiveness of the D2.  BTW, are those both D3's in the image above?  Thanks J.W.

[J.W.]

NTKT10, on 21 October 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

J.W., on 21 October 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

NTKT10, on 21 October 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

J.W. would you mind posting a couple comparison pictures of the D3 vs. D2 from address?  Thanks.

I can tomorrow which loft?

8.5 or 9.5 works.  I would just like to see a better quality comparison picture of the head size/shape than what I have been able to find.  I like the D3 looks, but wouldn't mind the added forgiveness of the D2.  BTW, are those both D3's in the image above?  Thanks J.W.

They are both D3, I will post a picture tomorrow of the two.

[J.W.]

HoosierMizuno, on 21 October 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Question to fitters, do you typically fit player to certain driver head and then work on finding the right shaft or the opposite, find the shaft that fits best and then start swapping heads

I know this is totally lost on WRX but in the real world the shaft doesn't change things as much as one might think.  I've heard so many people say things like "the shaft is the engine of the club" or "get the right shaft and the head doesn't matter."  And to be honest there may have been a time in my career as a fitter that I thought the same thing.  Now I certainly do not think that way... Example was a fitting I had yesterday.  The note pre-fitting just said "913 driver" so I watched him hit a few with his driver and immediately put him in a 8.5 913D2 head.  Unless he made a poor swing or hit a big balloon ball from trying to help it in the air he couldn't launch it above 10 or so and spin was sub 2000.  Put him in 9.5 D2 and he started getting near perfect conditions with EVERY shaft.  If I bumped him to 10.5 the spin would jump to 3000 or so.  The head design and loft were doing all the work, we worked him into a shaft and finally he looked back with that "wow" look which gave him great numbers, great looking flight, and the "feel" he was looking for which gave him the ability to make a confident swing.  I will say that the harder a player swings and the later the release of the player is where you really start to see the shafts start to impact the ball but still... not as much as we talk about it on WRX.  Now with Titleist heads and depending upon what the player is looking for we can dial in the setting from there...  When I say all this, I'm not saying going from ladies flex to stiff or from a soft stiff to an X.  I'm talking about the true differences between similar shafts... Going from high end shaft to high end shaft looking for perfection is going to cost more money than good.

I honestly believe the opportunity I had to fit that top D1 college team with ALL the latest and greatest was the best experience for me as a fitter.  Being able to see what all these different shafts do to the ball with repeatable swings was so cool for me.  For those guys, all the shafts were good... a tweak for them was 200 rpm of spin from Kai'li 60X tipped 1 inch to Tour AD BB-7X.  Hopefully that helped some of you guys understand... at least how I approach it as a fitter.

Edited by J.W., 21 October 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[superman912]

J.W., on 21 October 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

HoosierMizuno, on 21 October 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

Question to fitters, do you typically fit player to certain driver head and then work on finding the right shaft or the opposite, find the shaft that fits best and then start swapping heads

I know this is totally lost on WRX but in the real world the shaft doesn't change things as much as one might think.  I've heard so many people say things like "the shaft is the engine of the club" or "get the right shaft and the head doesn't matter."  And to be honest there may have been a time in my career as a fitter that I thought the same thing.  Now I certainly do not think that way... Example was a fitting I had yesterday.  The note pre-fitting just said "913 driver" so I watched him hit a few with his driver and immediately put him in a 8.5 913D2 head.  Unless he made a poor swing or hit a big balloon ball from trying to help it in the air he couldn't launch it above 10 or so and spin was sub 2000.  Put him in 9.5 D2 and he started getting near perfect conditions with EVERY shaft.  If I bumped him to 10.5 the spin would jump to 3000 or so.  The head design and loft were doing all the work, we worked him into a shaft and finally he looked back with that "wow" look which gave him great numbers, great looking flight, and the "feel" he was looking for which gave him the ability to make a confident swing.  I will say that the harder a player swings and the later the release of the player is where you really start to see the shafts start to impact the ball but still... not as much as we talk about it on WRX.  Now with Titleist heads and depending upon what the player is looking for we can dial in the setting from there...  When I say all this, I'm not saying going from ladies flex to stiff or from a soft stiff to an X.  I'm talking about the true differences between similar shafts... Going from high end shaft to high end shaft looking for perfection is going to cost more money than good.

I honestly believe the opportunity I had to fit that top D1 college team with ALL the latest and greatest was the best experience for me as a fitter.  Being able to see what all these different shafts do to the ball with repeatable swings was so cool for me.  For those guys, all the shafts were good... a tweak for them was 200 rpm of spin from Kai'li 60X tipped 1 inch to Tour AD BB-7X.  Hopefully that helped some of you guys understand... at least how I approach it as a fitter.

+1 million.

Get the right loft first.

[Doc Mcstuffins]

Nice post JW. I spent all afternoon hitting the Anser head with the Ahina X and a BB6 X and noticed very little as far as ball flight and distance. The only thing that stood out to me was the feel.
When I was initially fit, all of the shafts I tried gave me fairly similar numbers. The biggest change was going from an 8.5 head to a 9.5. After that it was just a matter of deciding if I should go Stiff or Xstiff. In the end the X brought me down 300 Rpm's which was a better number, but overall wasn't earth shattering.

[swanry30]

Well put - agreed!

[J.W.]

Here are the requests for pictures:

8.5 degree 913D3 vs. 8.5 degree 913D2.  Two of these are similar just a bit closer.  The last is a face view.


Hybrid shaft chart.


Iron shaft chart.


A good "note" that everyone should read. "Because every player loads and releases shafts differently, the above chart is relative (not absolute) measure of how each shaft performs, and how they perform relative to each other."

Edited by J.W., 22 October 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Puppetmaster]

Nice review, as always JW. The BB is a really nice shaft too, both performance and cosmetics wise.

I finally got to see the 913s this past weekend at the Golf Tour Trailer at Westfields GC here in VA, didn't get to hit them though. To me, in terms of footprint, the D2 is a little more rounded and almost symetrical compared with the D3, which is your traditional pear-shaped head with more of a bulge/bias towards the toe. I didn't think to put them side by side, but it's a very subtle difference, which is confirmed by your pics. Anyway, the D2 seems to frame the ball better for me, since I'm used to the more triangular, symmetrically shaped heads. Can't wait to go back and hit them both.

Oh, and they had these lofts for both D2 and D3, not that I could ever hit one. Maybe with a high launch high spin shaft, LOL.



Sorry, I shall not digress further, don't mean to take anything away from this thread.

[Honman]

Puppetmaster, on 22 October 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Nice review, as always JW. The BB is a really nice shaft too, both performance and cosmetics wise.

I finally got to see the 913s this past weekend at the Golf Tour Trailer at Westfields GC here in VA, didn't get to hit them though. To me, in terms of footprint, the D2 is a little more rounded and almost symetrical compared with the D3, which is your traditional pear-shaped head with more of a bulge/bias towards the toe. I didn't think to put them side by side, but it's a very subtle difference, which is confirmed by your pics. Anyway, the D2 seems to frame the ball better for me, since I'm used to the more triangular, symmetrically shaped heads. Can't wait to go back and hit them both.

Oh, and they had these lofts for both D2 and D3, not that I could ever hit one. Maybe with a high launch high spin shaft, LOL.



Sorry, I shall not digress further, don't mean to take anything away from this thread.

I got fit into a 7.5 d3 with a devotion.  Can't wait for it to turn up I was killing it!

[J.W.]

Puppetmaster, on 22 October 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Nice review, as always JW. The BB is a really nice shaft too, both performance and cosmetics wise.

I finally got to see the 913s this past weekend at the Golf Tour Trailer at Westfields GC here in VA, didn't get to hit them though. To me, in terms of footprint, the D2 is a little more rounded and almost symetrical compared with the D3, which is your traditional pear-shaped head with more of a bulge/bias towards the toe. I didn't think to put them side by side, but it's a very subtle difference, which is confirmed by your pics. Anyway, the D2 seems to frame the ball better for me, since I'm used to the more triangular, symmetrically shaped heads. Can't wait to go back and hit them both.

Oh, and they had these lofts for both D2 and D3, not that I could ever hit one. Maybe with a high launch high spin shaft, LOL.



Sorry, I shall not digress further, don't mean to take anything away from this thread.

That's exactly what this thread is for... the less the loft the better the 913D2 looks... IMO.  Looking forward to your thoughs after you hit them.

Edited by J.W., 22 October 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[superman912]

swanry30, on 21 October 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

JW nailed it with some shafts are designed to play as fairway shafts - up quicker and land softer.  Also shafts like the devotion 6 were lower launching than the 7 and 8.  Others play the middle game - the DI7 flights way lower than the 6 and the 8.

Each manufacture has their own twist

The kiyoshi black sounds like a fun shaft to try as well!

I agree. My 73x blueboard, designed for a driver but I have it in my 3 wood, launches way lower than my 83x blueboard, which is basically designed for a fairway.

[NTKT10]

J.W.  Thanks for the comparison shots.  The D2 definitely looks better this year than the 910 version, at least imo.

[shankz]

Thanks for all the info JW.

Oops looked at the wrong chart. Just Thank u post.

Edited by shankz, 22 October 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[gti303]

What do you guys think...from a 910D2 Tour Ad Di 6s...going to a 913D3 Diamana S+ Blue 72g s. They should perform similar?