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USGA confirms plan to make long-putter ruling in 2012

USGA Belly putter long putter

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#451 Vindog

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

Please Hammer, don't hurt 'em...

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#452 nbg352

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

View Postmonkeynaut, on 20 November 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Yep.  Once it's banned people will look back and wonder why they were ever for it.  

Not like slavery though.  More like parachute pants or Milli Vanilli or mood rings.
Nope, you're wrong again. One never forgets the passion of one's beliefs. Even though the whole mess will blow over, there will be residual anger at the stupidity that allows such a ban to take place. And ill feeling towards those who gloat.
Not me, though. I'm good no matter which way this thing goes.

Edited by nbg352, 20 November 2012 - 08:32 PM.

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#453 monkeynaut

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

(Says guy, in acid washed jacket, who's still upset Milli Vanilli was stripped if their Grammy)
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#454 nbg352

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:41 PM

View Postmonkeynaut, on 20 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

(Says guy, in acid washed jacket, who's still upset Milli Vanilli was stripped if their Grammy)
As you can plainly see, it's a fur coat, not acid washed ( where can I get one of those,,,,), I never liked Millie Vanilli in the first place and was glad when they crashed and burned. I did enjoy your "cheat" diatribe a little earlier in this thread, though.....
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#455 Vindog

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:52 PM

Posted Image  "Girl I'm gonna miss you....."

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#456 mark m

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:47 AM

Annoucement tomorrow morning......get the cheese ready
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#457 monkeynaut

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

View Postmark m, on 27 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Annoucement tomorrow morning......get the cheese ready
so after tomorrow there will be no more long putter-anchoring threads.  
Our long golf nightmare is coming to an end.
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#458 Socrates

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

No, it won't be the end of the threads.  The focus of the threads will change to whining (not winning Charlie) and I plan to have an ample supply of cheese ready.  Might be the only time ever I PVR the Morning Drive.

Suzann Pettersen on Morning Drive said she was working with the R&A yesterday (I wish they had pressed her on that point to explain) and that we would have until 2016 to find a different way to putt.  Seems like a done deal.  Where's my cheese? :(

Edited by Socrates, 27 November 2012 - 10:39 AM.

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#459 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

View Postmonkeynaut, on 27 November 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

View Postmark m, on 27 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Annoucement tomorrow morning......get the cheese ready
so after tomorrow there will be no more long putter-anchoring threads.  
Our long golf nightmare is coming to an end.

So wait John Daly is retiring too? Banner day
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#460 Jamboy72

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

Or it reminds me more of the Carpenter's tune, "We've only just begun..."


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#461 Socrates

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:12 AM

View Posttopekareal, on 27 November 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Or it reminds me more of the Carpenter's tune, "We've only just begun..."
Didn't Chubbs sing that in Happy Gilmore?
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#462 gators78

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

View PostSocrates, on 27 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Posttopekareal, on 27 November 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Or it reminds me more of the Carpenter's tune, "We've only just begun..."
Didn't Chubbs sing that in Happy Gilmore?

One of my favorite parts, "...Shutup Happy."

#463 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:17 AM

Also the main theme in Stephen King's 1408.
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#464 ABT

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:13 PM

I was averaging between 29 to 34 putts with my normal putter.  I went to belly putter for the last 4 months and have been averaging between 24 to 27 putts.  if it helps me that much then it helps the tour players as well.  I am ok going back to my old putter if it's banned.  I'm not sure if the banning is the way to go but it will be fair if all tour players play them though.  As long as if its even steven for all.

#465 Jamboy72

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

View Postgators78, on 27 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

View PostSocrates, on 27 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

View Posttopekareal, on 27 November 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Or it reminds me more of the Carpenter's tune, "We've only just begun..."
Didn't Chubbs sing that in Happy Gilmore?

One of my favorite parts, "...Shutup Happy."

Classic...what, friends listen to Endless Love in the dark


#466 OldGolfer87

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

View Postmonkeynaut, on 18 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

It is cheating and people who anchor are cheaters and cheaters shouldn't be allowed to call themselves major winners.  And anyone who says it isn't cheating is covering for their own cheating.  These cheaters are unable to provide any statistical data to prove they're not cheating.

They just provide their own word,which has no merit because they are cheaters.  Cheaters cheat and when they aren't cheating they are lying.  Lets take this option away from them and return this gentlemens game to gentlemen.



I presume you could not come up with a intelligent response about longer putters so you hide behind your keyboard and accuse people of cheating , Typical , I would like to think you write half-assed stuff like this just to get a reaction but you probably believe it , I would bet my last dollar you would not accuse someone in person because you might find yourself picking yourself off the pavement after someone knocks you into next week

#467 Sean2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

We'll find out tomorrow. Doesn't matter what we think. :-)

#468 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

View PostRetiredMedic029, on 27 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

View Postmonkeynaut, on 18 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

It is cheating and people who anchor are cheaters and cheaters shouldn't be allowed to call themselves major winners.  And anyone who says it isn't cheating is covering for their own cheating.  These cheaters are unable to provide any statistical data to prove they're not cheating.

They just provide their own word,which has no merit because they are cheaters.  Cheaters cheat and when they aren't cheating they are lying.  Lets take this option away from them and return this gentlemens game to gentlemen.



I presume you could not come up with a intelligent response about longer putters so you hide behind your keyboard and accuse people of cheating , Typical , I would like to think you write half-assed stuff like this just to get a reaction but you probably believe it , I would bet my last dollar you would not accuse someone in person because you might find yourself picking yourself off the pavement after someone knocks you into next week

You can't possibly be this unhinged by what was clearly MN's sarcasm? And by the way, even a well known, anchored putter using South African winner of the Open championship called belly putter use, "cheating" Are you going to make subtle threats to his personal safety too? Talk about hiding behind your computer.
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#469 deck

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

To those that use the belly putter I am truly sorry. It's my fault. I ordered one last week and was going to try it out.

So to all these people I have affected by making a rash BST purchase you get my humble apologies.

To those against the belly putters.....you are welcome.
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#470 nbg352

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:53 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

View PostRetiredMedic029, on 27 November 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

View Postmonkeynaut, on 18 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

It is cheating and people who anchor are cheaters and cheaters shouldn't be allowed to call themselves major winners.  And anyone who says it isn't cheating is covering for their own cheating.  These cheaters are unable to provide any statistical data to prove they're not cheating.

They just provide their own word,which has no merit because they are cheaters.  Cheaters cheat and when they aren't cheating they are lying.  Lets take this option away from them and return this gentlemens game to gentlemen.



I presume you could not come up with a intelligent response about longer putters so you hide behind your keyboard and accuse people of cheating , Typical , I would like to think you write half-assed stuff like this just to get a reaction but you probably believe it , I would bet my last dollar you would not accuse someone in person because you might find yourself picking yourself off the pavement after someone knocks you into next week

You can't possibly be this unhinged by what was clearly MN's sarcasm? And by the way, even a well known, anchored putter using South African winner of the Open championship called belly putter use, "cheating" Are you going to make subtle threats to his personal safety too? Talk about hiding behind your computer.
I don't think medic was unhinged at all. MN inspired in medic what MN wishes to inspire in many. I was going to comment that I'm glad I'm not the only other one who chooses to take MN to task over his ummmm...sarcasm.....as you seem to put it. And I think Kymar, that if MN was not on the same side of the fence as you are in this debate, that you might have been strongly tempted to toss a bit of your own brand of sarcasm in MN's direction, too........

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#471 Jamboy72

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

There is a line between sarcasm and just ranting and tossing insults for no other reason than trying to incite some type of response...MN likes to cross this line...often..

#472 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

that is 100% inaccurate because i have no personal stake in the decision either way. I don't think the best players in the world need a crutch to help a nervous hand down the stretch. The tour doesn't effect me, My position on the money list will remain the same whether the stroke is legal or not. And further I really don't care what you putt with in your Sunday AM fourball. But as much as i dislike the use of an anchored, save-me-from-the-shakes putting stroke, I more strongly dislike bifurcation of the R.O.G. So if you are going to ban anchoring, then it should be banned for all. But even such a ban doesn't stop guys from going out with friends for a casual round with friends from using one.

The defensiveness of Belly putter users is understandable. No one likes a stigma assigned to them, and most would really HATE the stigma of "cheater". And it takes that kind of skewed, personally offended view of it to read  Monkeys post and not see the obvious sarcasm. Perhaps it's stinging sarcasm, but only because you resent being called a cheater.  Besides this site is full of examples of vitriolic angry posts where worse things were said aimed towards pro-banners such as myself. I didn't feel the need to go all internet tough guy and threaten anyone's safety. Because again, it doesn't ultimately effect my game.

Edited by KYMAR, 27 November 2012 - 03:25 PM.

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#473 nbg352

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

that is 100% inaccurate because i have no personal stake in the decision either way. I don't think the best players in the world need a crutch to help a nervous hand down the stretch. The tour doesn't effect me, My position on the money list will remain the same whether the stroke is legal or not. And further I really don't care what you putt with in your Sunday AM fourball. But as much as i dislike the use of an anchored, save-me-from-the-shakes putting stroke, I more strongly dislike bifurcation of the R.O.G. So if you are going to ban anchoring, then it should be banned for all. But even such a ban doesn't stop guys from going out with friends for a casual round with friends from using one.

The defensiveness of Belly putter users is understandable. No one likes a stigma assigned to them, and most would really HATE the stigma of "cheater". And it takes that kind of skewed, personally offended view of it to read  Monkeys post and not see the obvious sarcasm. Perhaps it's stinging sarcasm, but only because you resent being called a cheater.  Besides this site is full of examples of vitriolic angry posts where worse things were said aimed towards pro-banners such as myself. I didn't feel the need to go all internet tough guy and threaten anyone's safety. Because again, it doesn't ultimately effect my game.
I've been butting heads with MN on this issue for some time. What you describe as sarcasm, is not sarcasm. I wish it was. He believes his own vitriol. It is the way he rolls.
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#474 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:38 PM

View Postnbg352, on 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

that is 100% inaccurate because i have no personal stake in the decision either way. I don't think the best players in the world need a crutch to help a nervous hand down the stretch. The tour doesn't effect me, My position on the money list will remain the same whether the stroke is legal or not. And further I really don't care what you putt with in your Sunday AM fourball. But as much as i dislike the use of an anchored, save-me-from-the-shakes putting stroke, I more strongly dislike bifurcation of the R.O.G. So if you are going to ban anchoring, then it should be banned for all. But even such a ban doesn't stop guys from going out with friends for a casual round with friends from using one.

The defensiveness of Belly putter users is understandable. No one likes a stigma assigned to them, and most would really HATE the stigma of "cheater". And it takes that kind of skewed, personally offended view of it to read  Monkeys post and not see the obvious sarcasm. Perhaps it's stinging sarcasm, but only because you resent being called a cheater.  Besides this site is full of examples of vitriolic angry posts where worse things were said aimed towards pro-banners such as myself. I didn't feel the need to go all internet tough guy and threaten anyone's safety. Because again, it doesn't ultimately effect my game.
I've been butting heads with MN on this issue for some time. What you describe as sarcasm, is not sarcasm. I wish it was. He believes his own vitriol. It is the way he rolls.

Meh, I till believe you're just too sensitive about it because of the way the moniker of "cheater" makes you feel. Not that he doesn't feel that anchorers are cheating, he may very well believe that, like Els does. He is being intentionally absurd and trying to get a rise out of cheaters belly putter users

See what i did there? Am I gonna need to pick myself up off the pavement?
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#475 dcmidnight

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

The thing I find most hilarious is that those who call it cheating are - by nature of the word cheating - implying that you are purposely breaking a ROG akin to kicking your ball out of the woods.

Unfortunately for them, the word anchor does not appear anywhere in the rule book - you can search for yourself. So as much as you would *like* there to be a current ROG that bans anchoring - there is not.

Even the definition of Stroke in the ROG mentions nothing of anchoring:


Stroke
A “stroke’’ is the forward movement of the club made with the intention
of striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing
voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he has not made a stroke.

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#476 nbg352

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

View Postnbg352, on 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

that is 100% inaccurate because i have no personal stake in the decision either way. I don't think the best players in the world need a crutch to help a nervous hand down the stretch. The tour doesn't effect me, My position on the money list will remain the same whether the stroke is legal or not. And further I really don't care what you putt with in your Sunday AM fourball. But as much as i dislike the use of an anchored, save-me-from-the-shakes putting stroke, I more strongly dislike bifurcation of the R.O.G. So if you are going to ban anchoring, then it should be banned for all. But even such a ban doesn't stop guys from going out with friends for a casual round with friends from using one.

The defensiveness of Belly putter users is understandable. No one likes a stigma assigned to them, and most would really HATE the stigma of "cheater". And it takes that kind of skewed, personally offended view of it to read  Monkeys post and not see the obvious sarcasm. Perhaps it's stinging sarcasm, but only because you resent being called a cheater.  Besides this site is full of examples of vitriolic angry posts where worse things were said aimed towards pro-banners such as myself. I didn't feel the need to go all internet tough guy and threaten anyone's safety. Because again, it doesn't ultimately effect my game.
I've been butting heads with MN on this issue for some time. What you describe as sarcasm, is not sarcasm. I wish it was. He believes his own vitriol. It is the way he rolls.

Meh, I till believe you're just too sensitive about it because of the way the moniker of "cheater" makes you feel. Not that he doesn't feel that anchorers are cheating, he may very well believe that, like Els does. He is being intentionally absurd and trying to get a rise out of cheaters belly putter users

See what i did there? Am I gonna need to pick myself up off the pavement?
No Kymar. I'm not an internet bully. I still believe that opinion is anyone's, to be had and shared. Until it becomes mean spirited, that is. BTW I believe Els reversed himself on the cheating position, perhaps because he respects the rules, rules which say that the technique is perfectly legal, therefore not cheating. So why would I or anyone else who is a proponent of an anchored stroke listen to MN when he clearly doesn't know the rules himself, if he thinks anchoring is cheating?  
Tomorrow? ah, tomorrow. Different story tomorrow. End of debate, tomorrow. Tomorrow, to anchor would be to cheat, bifurcation or not..
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#477 KYMAR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:05 PM

View Postnbg352, on 27 November 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

View Postnbg352, on 27 November 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 27 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

that is 100% inaccurate because i have no personal stake in the decision either way. I don't think the best players in the world need a crutch to help a nervous hand down the stretch. The tour doesn't effect me, My position on the money list will remain the same whether the stroke is legal or not. And further I really don't care what you putt with in your Sunday AM fourball. But as much as i dislike the use of an anchored, save-me-from-the-shakes putting stroke, I more strongly dislike bifurcation of the R.O.G. So if you are going to ban anchoring, then it should be banned for all. But even such a ban doesn't stop guys from going out with friends for a casual round with friends from using one.

The defensiveness of Belly putter users is understandable. No one likes a stigma assigned to them, and most would really HATE the stigma of "cheater". And it takes that kind of skewed, personally offended view of it to read  Monkeys post and not see the obvious sarcasm. Perhaps it's stinging sarcasm, but only because you resent being called a cheater.  Besides this site is full of examples of vitriolic angry posts where worse things were said aimed towards pro-banners such as myself. I didn't feel the need to go all internet tough guy and threaten anyone's safety. Because again, it doesn't ultimately effect my game.
I've been butting heads with MN on this issue for some time. What you describe as sarcasm, is not sarcasm. I wish it was. He believes his own vitriol. It is the way he rolls.

Meh, I till believe you're just too sensitive about it because of the way the moniker of "cheater" makes you feel. Not that he doesn't feel that anchorers are cheating, he may very well believe that, like Els does. He is being intentionally absurd and trying to get a rise out of cheaters belly putter users

See what i did there? Am I gonna need to pick myself up off the pavement?
No Kymar. I'm not an internet bully. I still believe that opinion is anyone's, to be had and shared. Until it becomes mean spirited, that is. BTW I believe Els reversed himself on the cheating position, perhaps because he respects the rules, rules which say that the technique is perfectly legal, therefore not cheating. So why would I or anyone else who is a proponent of an anchored stroke listen to MN when he clearly doesn't know the rules himself, if he thinks anchoring is cheating?  
Tomorrow? ah, tomorrow. Different story tomorrow. End of debate, tomorrow. Tomorrow, to anchor would be to cheat, bifurcation or not..

I agree that tomorrow clarify's everything and I also agree that no one who has used a belly putter is a cheater. Not against the rules as interpreted, therefore legal to play. No * by Keegan, or Webb or Ernies name. When did Ernie change his tune? It saved his career and won him an elusive 4th major. SHOCKING reversal there!

And the only thing that tomorrow won't instantly rid us of us the crying and whining that is sure to flood this and probably 20 other threads over the next several months. And that little weasel Keegan's lawsuit, should he pursue it. If it's no advantage, why are you suing to use it?
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#478 nbg352

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

I'm looking forward to the anger and the tears.....should be good reading for a while.
If he sues, it's because it is better for him. As we all know, not everyone who uses the stupid thing benefits from it's use. Bradely does benefit. That's been taken away from him and he believes that the decision to do so is arbitrary, without merit and frivolous. He believes that a decison without benefit of proof will affect his ability to earn the same income he is used to. I don't blame him for suing, if he goes ahead with it. I don't think he will.
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#479 dcmidnight

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

IMO I agree with Keegan but I dont see how he could sue. Golfers are independent contractors. They choose to compete on the PGA Tour - but they are free to compete wherever they want.

I'll be surprised if they do nothing. I'm guessing its a groove-type ruling. Immediate impact on Tour players, 10 years to conform for the rest of us.

Again, IMO, if its something that makes putting so much easier - everyone would be doing it. The way people talk about it you would think oh god you pick up a long putter and you make everything immediately. Not true. I tried it - trust me, its not that easy. I gave it a few months and set it aside. So the response to that is, well, it helps people who have had certain issues putting. Maybe it does. But guess what, large headed drivers help people who have trouble driving. 64* wedges help people get the ball in the air easier who may have short game issues. Every increase in golf technology in one way or the other *can* help people play better golf.

There is absolutely no concrete proof that long putters help. You can look up the stats on pgatour.com - I think there were something like 89 putting categories. Not one of them has a flood of long putter users at the top.

Edited by dcmidnight, 27 November 2012 - 04:42 PM.

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#480 big truck

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

View PostABT, on 27 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I was averaging between 29 to 34 putts with my normal putter.  I went to belly putter for the last 4 months and have been averaging between 24 to 27 putts.  if it helps me that much then it helps the tour players as well.  I am ok going back to my old putter if it's banned.  I'm not sure if the banning is the way to go but it will be fair if all tour players play them though.  As long as if its even steven for all.

I'm not sure that a spread of 5 or 3 shots can credibly be called an average? Average is more likely to be 31.5 or 25.5 putts. Which is an impressive reduction. Were the saved putts short ones or 8 footers plus?


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