155 replies to this topic

[TomWishon]

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Well this statement is false.  "Those little things sticking out of the fuselage below the cockpit called pitot tubes/ probes" are most certainly not engineered or manufactured by anyone from Ping, past or present.  They are designed, engineered and manufactured by the company I work for and it is most certainly not Ping.

I won't go into the prosthetic hips but I know they are not all engineered by Ping.  Medtronic comes to mind.  Also, not sure how that relates to golf clubs in any way.

Sorry about that - I guess I was misinformed.  But I was told this by George Swanson a number of years ago who used to run Ping's own casting division and as such was heavily involved with the non golf related products they made.  I had a tour of their Dolphin Cast division and saw samples of all these products they made outside of golf.  Again, sorry to make this mistake but I was led to believe this by my tour of their facility and the man who gave me the tour who ran the place.

As to whether it is good or not to have former engineers run a company, I am only commenting on that on the basis that an engineer CEO is more prone to emphasizing the company's engineering capability.  Not on whether an ex engineer's experience has anything to do with sales and marketing situations or things like that.

TOM

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[Woodridge]

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

dpb5031, on 12 October 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

PING = Karsten Manufacturing = Great company and great story from the beginning.  Ping founder Karsten Solheim, a talented engineer, was passionate about golf and a true innovator.  His is a true American success story.

I especially like the fact that as a private company, they don't have to worry so much about pleasing shareholders by beating their numbers quarter over quarter.  They can take a long term strategic approach and continue to produce products that are consistent with Karsten's original theme of performance based innovative thinking and design, combined with the best custom fitting and customer service in the industry.

+1000

Ping can manage it's growth and maintain its price points better than anyone. Because of this, their return on investment has to be pretty impressive. Ping is never going to be the sexy brand, but they've created a business model that has stood the test of time. If I could choose one golf club manufacturer to work for in a management capacity, it would be Ping, hands down.

How does this relate to their equipment being elite?  Walmart is a great company to work for but they aren't elite.  Are you a Ping employee?

Sexy brand?  They came out with an all pink driver this year.  I completely understand why they did it and I am happy that they did but.....it is all pink.

Look at it this way, No Karsten Solheim=No Scotty Cameron. People still play the Eye 2 irons....how many other SGI/GI irons have had that kind of run? Certainly not Titleist or Taylor Made.  Elite products and designs stand the test of time.

Regarding the engineering side, Tom Wishon said it far better than I could. And no, I'm not a Ping employee. I work in corporate management in another industry, but I admire how Ping has built their business.

I will say that the pink driver was pretty weak. In fact, the whole pink for breast cancer 'industry' has issues around it as far as I'm concerned. But, that's a post for a non-golf forum.

[Blynch32]

Wanted to chime in on this ping convo....I used to play the ping zing 2 from about 2002 to 2008, with a stop along the way with some ping ISI becu's.  Even though the Zings looked like shovels, I've never hit another iron as long as these.  As far as the Ping ISI's not quite as long as the zings, which partly had to do with the BECU finish, but I've never had an iron spin so much.  With that being said, instead of sticking with either one of these irons or buying a new set of pings, I went with the titleist AP2's.  The titleist irons have been great, but have never been as consistent as the pings, even though they look 100 times better.
Which brings me to yesterday....I've been looking for a driver that I could love for the past 5 years, and have hit almost everything from Titleist 910 D2 and D3 to every driver Taylormade has crammed down the public's throat.  I currently game a R11s with a Fubuki Alpha extra stiff, and I took this driver to Golfsmith and the trackman yesterday.  WAS ABSOLUTELY blown away by the PING line of drivers and how they performed yesterday!  Hit the G20 with the stock shaft in it extra stiff, 9.5.....and the Anser 9.5 stiff and extra stiff....and these two drivers not only killed my R11 set up (spin numbers, carry distance, club head speed, smash factor), but I hit just about every other driver in the building....and the only thing that came close to the ANSER was the G20.  My spin numbers were better with the Anser, but not far off with the G20, and launch angle and distance was awesome with the G20.  Needless to say, I'm taking a long hard look at my bag.

[BrianL99]

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

In fact, the whole pink for breast cancer 'industry' has issues around it as far as I'm concerned. But, that's a post for a non-golf forum.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who holds that opinion.

[knickerbocker]

I went from not having played any Ping product in 15 years to having Ping irons, driver, and putter in 3 months.  They deliver awesome performance.

[Shrapnac]

It's all marketing.

Ping traditionally markets to golfers, while the other major OEMs market to people who play golf.

That's not to say one or the other is a better brand, it's just their marketing structure, which is now slowly changing with guys like Bubba Watson playing their equipment.

Ping's R&D is as good as anyone's, they're not being passed by in that regard, they just haven't traditionally marketed to the "17 more yards" golf equipment buyer, and that gives them less overall exposure.

[Gripit_Swiftit]

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Look at it this way, No Karsten Solheim=No Scotty Cameron. People still play the Eye 2 irons....how many other SGI/GI irons have had that kind of run? Certainly not Titleist or Taylor Made.  Elite products and designs stand the test of time.

Regarding the engineering side, Tom Wishon said it far better than I could. And no, I'm not a Ping employee. I work in corporate management in another industry, but I admire how Ping has built their business.

I will say that the pink driver was pretty weak. In fact, the whole pink for breast cancer 'industry' has issues around it as far as I'm concerned. But, that's a post for a non-golf forum.

You and Mr Wishon do make some very good points.  I guess I am just having a hard time separating my distaste for the way the clubs look to my eye for what is probably a very good product.  I've just never been a fan of the way they set up for me.

Mr Wishon, I do not doubt their casting process.  I do know they have a fantastic ability for this and they have helped several industries with their knowledge and quality in this department.

Also glad you recognize the issues with the "pink" business model.  It's unfortunate that companies cash in on a horrible disease that robs us from wonderful, magical boobies.

Now that we have drifted ENTIRELY off topic i'll try to bring it back.

I don't recall Ping being on top of the world 5 years ago.  I think it was closer to 15-25 years ago that they were at the top for them.  i.e. The Eye2 irons, Ping putters, etc.

And what's the deal behind $1,600 for some Anser irons?  Can someone inform this MN idiot with a frozen brain (25 degrees this morning) why they cost so much?

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

It's funny to see all the obvious anti-Ping trolls on here.  I'll leave it at that.

Edited by Rock Chalk Jayhawk, 12 October 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[onafriday]

I think the company has done sort of a 180*?

Used to be (i'm 34 - used to be being early/mid 90's) every junior had 2 things:

1)  Ping irons
2)  Hoofer bag.

Their woods were pretty bad.

Now?  The G series and I series woods are pretty great!

To me, where Ping is lagging is with their putters - which is surprising (to me).  I don't know ANYONE with an Anser milled.  To me, they just don't look right.

I'm also not seeing a better players wedge, but i don't remember them ever having a really good one.

What I like about the company is they're motto is simple - play your best - which is why they seem to lean heavily towards SG/SGI.

Here's what i'd love to see:

Re-issue the original hoofer bag (maybe with the shaft protection on the molding), bring bag the redwood series with more of a cameron / protype milling, and get into the wedge game.

But none of those things would be seem to fit in their line?

Having said all that - I like Ping.  The i20 driver and 3W are awesome, and i've heard nice things about the hybrid.

Edited by onafriday, 12 October 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[Sean2]

I skimmed here so please forgive me...

Unlike other OEM's, Ping is first and foremost an engineering company. That doesn't mean the other companies make poor equipment, they don't. On the contrary, they make excellent equipment. In today's market place no one can afford not to.

However, and I said this much earlier, TM is capturing the youth market. You can't denigrate effective marketing. If you make a good product, and market it well, ka-ching.

Yes, Ping is doing very well now, but I wonder what they are doing as far the future is concerned?

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[wolfpack]

Amrish, on 12 October 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

I read this and thought why are they more expensive in San Antonio?  hhahha

[Nessism]

Honda is another company run by engineers, and they've had a little success.

[MadGolfer76]

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

TomWishon, on 12 October 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

clewallen, on 11 October 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Just thinking, 5 years ago Ping was golf... If you said anything golf related it was ping. Now with a younger cliental base, and all the marketing schemes. I believe taylormade is #1 bran in sales ( could be wrong just guessing )

So did they refuse to evolve and change with the times and get passed by from a company stand point or are they just as strong as before?

IMHO based on 30+ yrs in golf clubhead and shaft design engineering, Ping is THE number one engineering company in the golf industry.  Always have been too.  Others most certainly do have some good minds in their employ but from an engineering standpoint, Ping has always been at the top.  For one, Ping has always, always been headed by an engineer.  All of the other companies have been headed by people who came from sales and marketing.  You may not think that important, but it is in this discussion because it means Ping has always placed the highest priority on their engineering and technical side.

Of all the golf companies, Ping is the only one that produces highly engineered parts for other industries like aerospace and medical to name a couple. If you've boarded a plane and seen one of those little things sticking out from the side of the fuselage below the cockpit, that's a pitot tube and it's likely that Ping's other engineering division made that.  Had a friend who got a new prosthetic hip?  That too may have come from Ping.

Also, as one of the posters said, Ping has always been a privately held company.  All the other major golf companies are publicly traded.  That difference can have a little different effect on how a company is run.  Ping usually brings out new models when they want to.  The others typically bring out new models because they have to.

What you're seeing with TM being #1 in drivers and the current "household name" among the club companies - or years before when this or that other OEM was the "hot" company - is not so much a statement of engineering capability but the fact that the golf industry is not only a technical industry, but a "fashion and image business" too.  $50 mill a year, every year, in image and brand marketing can compel a lot of people into thinking they bought something on the basis of technology when in reality the marketing first triggered the "this is cool and I want that" part of the brain to lead to making the buy.

In the end, most of the top companies made good product.  A few of the ones you haven't heard of very much do too.  What ordains if the club works well typically has less to do with the engineering of the clubhead than how well the length, loft, lie, face angle, shaft, total weight, swingweight and grip properly fits that golfer's size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics.  But what draws most golfers to a product is marketing oriented.

TOM

Well this statement is false.  "Those little things sticking out of the fuselage below the cockpit called pitot tubes/ probes" are most certainly not engineered or manufactured by anyone from Ping, past or present.  They are designed, engineered and manufactured by the company I work for and it is most certainly not Ping.  We do all of the manufacturing and engineering in our facilities with our employees and we sell more than any other company in the world on every aircraft you've ever been on.  I currently sell them and would be happy to outfit your aircraft with the correct application for your needs.

I won't go into the prosthetic hips but I know they are not all engineered by Ping.  Medtronic comes to mind.  Also, not sure how that relates to golf clubs in any way.

I respect what you personally have brought to the game Mr. Wishon and I call you Mr. Wishon out of respect but Ping doesn't make flight critical Pitot's.


Not sure that having an engineer at the head of the business is ALWAYS a good idea.  They are stereotypically not the most personable people or best business men in the group.  The smartest, usually, but intelligence and business accumen are separate concepts.

I wondered why I had no aptitude for business. lol

(I might have just insulted myself trying to be witty...   )

[cxx]

Its kind of funny that somehow people equate market share with elitism. Nothing could be further from the truth.  I think that is by definition.

Ping has had a stream of innovations that has fundamentally changed golf.  I don't think any other company in the industry really approaches their impact on the game.  Look at putters. Most designs are either direct copies or derivatives of ping's designs.  How many kinds of anser clones or zing2 clones does Scotty make.  Don't get me wrong, Scotty's use of materials and manufacturing techniques produce great putters, but most of the basic designs were done by ping.

Only by being costly and less than common could an item really be elite.   The Eye 2s were very very expensive when they came out.  They inspired innumerable clones that could be purchased at huge discounts to the pings, but the value of the pings stayed high.  I'm sure that the forged anser irons are priced for the market that ping is trying to reach.

The company that was most successful at getting the most out of each generation of clubs was Titleist.  In the past, each model lasted quite a few years and even maintained high resale value. You just couldn't get them on the cheap. If you wanted one you had to pay up.  Titleist's ownership and competition from companies like TM may have had a hand in reducing this.  TM puts out so many models that you just have to wait 6 months from the introduction to get it at half price or less. Talk about a club for the common man.

Edited by cxx, 12 October 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[cxx]

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

TomWishon, on 12 October 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

clewallen, on 11 October 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Just thinking, 5 years ago Ping was golf... If you said anything golf related it was ping. Now with a younger cliental base, and all the marketing schemes. I believe taylormade is #1 bran in sales ( could be wrong just guessing )

So did they refuse to evolve and change with the times and get passed by from a company stand point or are they just as strong as before?

IMHO based on 30+ yrs in golf clubhead and shaft design engineering, Ping is THE number one engineering company in the golf industry.  Always have been too.  Others most certainly do have some good minds in their employ but from an engineering standpoint, Ping has always been at the top.  For one, Ping has always, always been headed by an engineer.  All of the other companies have been headed by people who came from sales and marketing.  You may not think that important, but it is in this discussion because it means Ping has always placed the highest priority on their engineering and technical side.

Of all the golf companies, Ping is the only one that produces highly engineered parts for other industries like aerospace and medical to name a couple. If you've boarded a plane and seen one of those little things sticking out from the side of the fuselage below the cockpit, that's a pitot tube and it's likely that Ping's other engineering division made that.  Had a friend who got a new prosthetic hip?  That too may have come from Ping.

Also, as one of the posters said, Ping has always been a privately held company.  All the other major golf companies are publicly traded.  That difference can have a little different effect on how a company is run.  Ping usually brings out new models when they want to.  The others typically bring out new models because they have to.

What you're seeing with TM being #1 in drivers and the current "household name" among the club companies - or years before when this or that other OEM was the "hot" company - is not so much a statement of engineering capability but the fact that the golf industry is not only a technical industry, but a "fashion and image business" too.  $50 mill a year, every year, in image and brand marketing can compel a lot of people into thinking they bought something on the basis of technology when in reality the marketing first triggered the "this is cool and I want that" part of the brain to lead to making the buy.

In the end, most of the top companies made good product.  A few of the ones you haven't heard of very much do too.  What ordains if the club works well typically has less to do with the engineering of the clubhead than how well the length, loft, lie, face angle, shaft, total weight, swingweight and grip properly fits that golfer's size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics.  But what draws most golfers to a product is marketing oriented.

TOM

Well this statement is false.  "Those little things sticking out of the fuselage below the cockpit called pitot tubes/ probes" are most certainly not engineered or manufactured by anyone from Ping, past or present.  They are designed, engineered and manufactured by the company I work for and it is most certainly not Ping.  We do all of the manufacturing and engineering in our facilities with our employees and we sell more than any other company in the world on every aircraft you've ever been on.  I currently sell them and would be happy to outfit your aircraft with the correct application for your needs.

I won't go into the prosthetic hips but I know they are not all engineered by Ping.  Medtronic comes to mind.  Also, not sure how that relates to golf clubs in any way.

I respect what you personally have brought to the game Mr. Wishon and I call you Mr. Wishon out of respect but Ping doesn't make flight critical Pitot's.


Not sure that having an engineer at the head of the business is ALWAYS a good idea.  They are stereotypically not the most personable people or best business men in the group.  The smartest, usually, but intelligence and business accumen are separate concepts.

Just out of curiosity,  which company?  Do you do all your own casting of parts?  Seems like something rather specialized compared to aircraft instrumentation.

[somaplr]

Passed by?  I think guy on the first page was right. Clown comment.

Playing my first set of Pings this year after a lifetime of Mizunos. Both great companies in their own individual ways and on par with each other not on similarities but of the different qualities they bring to golfers.

How does Ping get passed by when they put out one of the best reviewed irons of the year?

Ping is great with club fitting and goes above and beyond what others OEM's provide, especially with tall retail golfers. For any poster to say Ping isn't innovative is just ridiculous. Tom Wishon said as much and he is more or less a competitor. That says what type of company you are when a professional club fitter and iron makers says as much. He's forgot more about clubs than we all know about.

For the guys that "hate" on Ping I'd love to hear what you all play...

Edited by somaplr, 12 October 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[Thrillhouse]

sharkiesj, on 12 October 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

TM is slutty. They'll do anything for your money. Titleist is lazy. They know they can slap that logo on toilet paper and it'll sell a million times over. Callaway is tired. Ping... Ping is classy. Not slutty, not lazy. Ping is the smart nerd in the classroom. He's not all that at first, but after all is said and done, we all know who ends up with the hot chick.

Uh huh, that's right.

Ha ha, this post is awesome!

[Thrillhouse]

richard t, on 12 October 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Is there a lot of good stuff out there? Well, I'm sure. Got Eye2s when they came out. Never looked back. All I buy is Ping. Don't care if they are 1st, 2nd,10th. Call Mr. Titleist or Mr. WHoever and see if they will the things Ping will do for you Jeff is correct about the Government contracts. I'd guess the club business is a 'sideline' for the Solheims. Three of the things I count on are, Ping, Thrillhouse and 'Cool Canadians.'

Thanks man!

On another note, how good are wishon's posts in this thread? Absolutely awesome stuff.

You should start an "ask Tom Wishon" thread where we can ask you stuff about clubs and club design. It would be like ask thrillhouse except people would leave smarter unlike my thread which has been proven to kill brain cells.

[clamp]

The G15's I play now are every bit as good as the Eye 2's I played for 20 years. Whatever floats your boat. Irons are bullet proof. I like the fact they are private and do their own thing. Couldn't be happier playin an almost full ping bag. Minus an Orlimar fairway wood, Cleveland driver, and TM hybrid b

[ayotte2]

I'm fortunate enough to buy my new clubs from a Pro Shop that sells (mainly) Ping, Titleist and Mizuno. They can sell all the others (except Nike) but their main ones are the 3 mentioned. The main person in charge of this place is one of my wife's best friends.

With that said, when I got my Vokeys from them I recieved a pretty substantial discount. 70 bucks a piece if I remember correctly. When I recently had them order my new i20 irons it was full price with an explaination that when you buy Pings, you have to pay full price. Of course I had absolutely no problem with that. I guess if I want a deep discount, I'll have to go with Titleist!!!

Recently this person told me that this year all their customers want is the i20's and G20's. They are enjoying sales like never before because of these 2 models. That is a pretty big endorsement IMO.

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[pgagreg1]

There certainly can be advantages and disadvantages to having an engineer in charge.
Want the best performing equipment with no cares how it looks? Put an engineer in charge. Don't worry if it doesn't sell because it works.

Want the most secure shaft to head connection in a putter? (think ball bearing here) Who cares if the customer can't easily swap or fix a broken shaft. That head won['t come loose.

[Llortamaisey]

BrianL99, on 12 October 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Llortamaisey, on 12 October 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

I could see how golfers today don't respect Ping as an elite company.

Ping is starting to have Taylormade tendencies. The product life cycles are getting shorter. They don't protect MAP as diligently as they once did. Buyers can now find Ping clubs at discount stores that would have never been able to get a Ping account 10 years ago.

I guess cash is king.

I just bought a set of the supposedly "ridiculously over-priced PING Anser Forged".   After checking prices at probably 50 PING Dealers, I think I ended up getting about $40 off the List Price.  I'd say they protect their pricing better than any equipment manufacturer in the industry.

That's not what Discount Dan said. In the past, it was impossible to buy Ping under list/MAP price. They'd pull your account. Ping would send around secret shoppers to police the price fixing.

Sure, they still pull accounts for low balling but not for several months after the damage has been done. Titleist does the same. I wouldn't say Ping is better, I'd say they are on par with the rest of the industry now.

[dlygrisse]

Ping was the industry leader in irons, putters and stand bags for many years, they invented the modern product in these areas.  They are still the best at custom fitting irons especially if you have specs that are far from the norm.  Pretty much every modern iron, putter and carry bag has been copied from what Ping brought to the table.  That being said they have now created a niche in the Wood and hybrid market that is quality, but in this area they are followers not leaders.

Yes they are private, yes their marketing strategy is not set for the masses like TM, however to me they will always represent quality.  I have played Ping products, not 100% of the time, I currently play Mizuno irons, Ping woods and titlist wedges and putter however to me Ping is always a top 3 pick when making my purchasing decisions.  Their current irons are very high quality but probably not for everyone, I played the I3's for many years, switched to the I15 but did not fall in love with them. That being said I still feel they are elite, in terms of quality and performance.  What they lack currently is an new innovation that sets them apart, while Ping led the golf world in this area during the 80's and 90's they now seem content to just make a quality product and offer great customer service.  Elite yes, trendy probably not.

[BrianL99]

Llortamaisey, on 13 October 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Sure, they still pull accounts for low balling but not for several months after the damage has been done. Titleist does the same. I wouldn't say Ping is better, I'd say they are on par with the rest of the industry now.

I don't have a clue about Titleist, I haven't used one of their products (other than a bag), in 25 years.   As for PING, there simply aren't discounts available.  Try searching the Web for someone who'll discount PING Irons .. you won't find an authorized dealer who'll do much of anything for you.  There's one guy on eBay advertising a deal that includes a coupon for a "free" PING bag, but at least when I tried to get pricing from him, he was over MSRP on the irons.

[Terp]

dlygrisse, on 13 October 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

I have played Ping products, not 100% of the time, I currently play Mizuno irons, Ping woods and titlist wedges and putter however to me Ping is always a top 3 pick when making my purchasing decisions.

Yep, Ping is always in the conversation when shopping for clubs.  They have amazing "staying" power and are that good.  I don't always select Ping, but they are always finalists in my club selection.  Yesterday I went to a local proshop and hit some irons (for about the 3rd time).  I was down to G20s, I20s, and JPX 825s.  I liked the feel better with the I20s and JPX 825s, but the G20s are just high, long and straight.  I was actually debating more between the G20s and the JPX 825s.  It seemed to me the JPX 825s are somewhere in between the G20s and I20s.  And then the guy says you might want to wait until the G25s come out. It is nearing the end of the golf season, so why not?  Like I said, Ping is always in the conversation.

[pgagreg1]

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

How does this relate to their equipment being elite?  Walmart is a great company to work for but they aren't elite.  Are you a Ping employee?

Sexy brand?  They came out with an all pink driver this year.  I completely understand why they did it and I am happy that they did but.....it is all pink.

Look at it this way, No Karsten Solheim=No Scotty Cameron.

Or maybe it is No Scotty Cameron = no milled Ping putters

[stage1350]

pgagreg1, on 13 October 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

How does this relate to their equipment being elite?  Walmart is a great company to work for but they aren't elite.  Are you a Ping employee?

Sexy brand?  They came out with an all pink driver this year.  I completely understand why they did it and I am happy that they did but.....it is all pink.

Look at it this way, No Karsten Solheim=No Scotty Cameron.

Or maybe it is No Scotty Cameron = no milled Ping putters

Milled putters would still be around thanks to Truett P. Mills.  You know, that company that ACTUALLY has been doing this since "circa '62"  

[pgagreg1]

stage1350, on 13 October 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Milled putters would still be around thanks to Truett P. Mills.  You know, that company that ACTUALLY has been doing this since "circa '62"  

TP certainly did it first.
But in this it wasn't TP that Ping was copying
Scotty made them popular for the masses

[Shambles]

TomWishon, on 12 October 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Well this statement is false.  "Those little things sticking out of the fuselage below the cockpit called pitot tubes/ probes" are most certainly not engineered or manufactured by anyone from Ping, past or present.  They are designed, engineered and manufactured by the company I work for and it is most certainly not Ping.

I won't go into the prosthetic hips but I know they are not all engineered by Ping.  Medtronic comes to mind.  Also, not sure how that relates to golf clubs in any way.

Sorry about that - I guess I was misinformed.  But I was told this by George Swanson a number of years ago who used to run Ping's own casting division and as such was heavily involved with the non golf related products they made.  I had a tour of their Dolphin Cast division and saw samples of all these products they made outside of golf.  Again, sorry to make this mistake but I was led to believe this by my tour of their facility and the man who gave me the tour who ran the place.

As to whether it is good or not to have former engineers run a company, I am only commenting on that on the basis that an engineer CEO is more prone to emphasizing the company's engineering capability.  Not on whether an ex engineer's experience has anything to do with sales and marketing situations or things like that.

TOM

It's a mistake to let titles interfere with your view of the value of a man.



Shambles

[stage1350]

pgagreg1, on 13 October 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

TP certainly did it first.
But in this it wasn't TP that Ping was copying
Scotty made them popular for the masses

Funny.  I believe Ray Cook had 200 wins AND milled putters before Cameron did.  Not to mention Giannini with Cleveland and Tad Moore.  You can paint your revisionist history anyway you want.  But the price point of the original Cameron offerings was hardly "popular with the masses."   Milled face Odysseys were much more popular.

Now, if we can get away from Greg's douchey need to defend Cameron and get back on topic, one of Ping's declining issues was the introduction of the G series of irons.  It represented a fundamental shift in their client base.  You'd see low caps and hackers alike with Eye 2, Zings, and ISI irons because the sole would get you through without digging, but had enough grind to allow a level of shotmaking.  There was one wood model for each series, take it or leave it.  It made the hackers still improve their game.  But it also gave them a set of clubs they could play all the way to single digits.

Today, the G series of irons has a wide sole, high bounce and offset configuration more like the Callaway GI irons.  Yes, they will elevate and go straight (or left if you actually have a swing due to offset) but you will have upgrade your clubs to the I series or S series as you get better.  The days of playing the same set of Pings for 20+ years will not happen anymore.

Ping lost a lot of pretige when the elimination of beryllium in golf clubs occurred.  The BeCu and BeNi irons and putters were legendary with players.  Combine that with caving on the groove rule and export of a lot of club manufacturing to China, and the company is a fraction of what it used to be.  The mistique of the BeCu Eye 2 wedge was eliminated when the groove rule declared them non-conforming under the new rules.  The Eye 2 XG wedges are nothing compared to the BeCu originals.

The other mistake that Ping made was to not adapt to the "right f**king now" attitude of today's buyer.  They want a set of irons that they can walk out the door with.  Fitting and custom options, while important for people that "get it," doesn't matter to most hackers.  Compare that to TM or Mizuno that have less options, but clubs are ready to go out the door.

There is opportunity for Ping to return to a place of power with the Anser series.  The Anser irons are a playable set for a -20 up to a plus handicapper.  Go more to a "one size fits all" for the bell curve out to the third standard deviation.  Go back to using WRX to modify clubs for the Professional and strong Amateurs regarding offset and grinds.  Doubly so with woods, hybrids, and wedges.  Between the Anser, I series, G series, and the occasional K series of woods, there is just too much differentiation.  Put it all into 1-2 good designs instead of creating 3-4 halfa$$ed models.

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