155 replies to this topic

[sharkiesj]

TM is slutty. They'll do anything for your money. Titleist is lazy. They know they can slap that logo on toilet paper and it'll sell a million times over. Callaway is tired. Ping... Ping is classy. Not slutty, not lazy. Ping is the smart nerd in the classroom. He's not all that at first, but after all is said and done, we all know who ends up with the hot chick.

Uh huh, that's right.

[Amrish]

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

[spring7]

Amrish, on 12 October 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

Odd since their true bread and butter irons/wedges are cheaper than all other major brands' current models.

[pgagreg1]

BrianL99, on 11 October 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

MtlJeff, on 11 October 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

From what i understand Ping is making a lot of money on government contracts and side businesses. As a private company i think they are focused on being profitable and not necessarily the biggest. They haven't changed their tour strategy or their product cycle strategy all that much. Even though you don't see them as much i bet you their brand approval/rating is as high as it gets in golf

thing is, being the biggest isn't important, being profitable is king. Going for #1 and failing is what costs companies. Carving out a niche is how to best run a business

I haven't played a PING product in 25 years.  I probably bought 5 different sets of Eyes & Eye2's years ago & just couldn't get used to them.  I switched to PING irons this year & I'll probably never change again.  I have (2) sets of Anser Forged & a set of I20's.  I've re-shafted & MOI matched all of them & PING's quality & customer service is by far, the best I've ever seen.  Great company!   Try to call Titleist & talk with one of their design engineers, they'd laugh at you ... call PING & their design guru will call you back in 10 minutes!

If I owned a company I would hope that I could keep my "design guru" busy enough that he didn't have time to return calls all day to customers. That should be customer services job.

To the OP I think it has been a lot more than 5 years since Ping defined golf or set any trends. They are a proud company and family and totally believe in their own ideas.
I think it is why they appear to be behind any trend, they just don't want to acknowledge that someone else might have a good idea. Look how long it took them to come out with metalwoods. Ok for you youngsters they were at least 4/5 years behind the market on metalwoods

[Sean25rp]

I like Ping stuff and always look forward to their new releases. Not using any right now but have played a lot of their stuff in the past. They still do well in the UK and my shop sells a ton of their stuff- it was bonkers when the i20 irons came out. But I agree with others, they seem to have a following of people who have always played Ping and will continue to do so. I guess I see them as a more traditional company as opposed to getting passed by.

[Amrish]

spring7, on 12 October 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

Amrish, on 12 October 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

Odd since their true bread and butter irons/wedges are cheaper than all other major brands' current models.

not here they arent, i20, g20, s56, k15 are all at least 20% more expensive than the equivalents from the big boys.
also tm, cally etc are always having some special but ping never

[BrianL99]

Amrish, on 12 October 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

Back in the 80's, you could just about finance a trip to Japan or anywhere in that part of the world, by bringing a new set of PING irons with you & selling them when you got there.  I'm sure their global marketing has improved, but I understand they're still a very desirable oddity in many parts of the world.

From a pretty credible source, this is what their market share looked like worldwide, in 2009.

Attached Files

•  PING.pdf   32.03K   127 downloads

[jeedub]

I think their putters and drivers in particular have always been top notch.  They really had to get into the adjustability arena to stay competitive.  They probably figured the original TM adjustable stuff waas just a fad.  I personally like swapping out shafts myself but don't really need the other adjustments in my woods.  I think they were also pressured into the forged arena so in some respects there is a me too feel but what company hasn't done that?  I also question their pricing of certain products - not sure who the target is on some stuff.  Anyway, I think they make top notch quality stuff and provide great customer service.  A lot just comes down to personal preference.  Some of their stuff I like and some I don't.

[Gbyeball]

They are niche and kinda boutique all in a good way. Although in some areas they are considered on old mans club of choice they are appealing to the younger makeret. The commercials with Bubba and Hunter are classic. I just looked at their tour player list and it is impressive. Ping has always projected their images as one of quality, particularly the family run business angle. I like them and will continue to play their clubs if it wins out for me over others, I do use a Ping driver and 4 wood.

[bullie76]

Over my 45 years of playing golf, I've played a lot of different brands. Enjoyed them all. But I have always felt Ping was one of the top 2 or 3 brands out there. Solid clubs for all levels of play.

I'm currently playing TM irons, but just pulled my old set of eye 2's out of the closet. Had Ping reshaft them with CFS shafts. Can't wait to get them back next week put them in play. Doubt they will replace my 2.0's, but it will be fun playing them occasionally.

[lawsonman]

I see more Ping stuff in bags now than I ever have. The general manager and head pro at a local Golf store here told me Ping sales have really taken off over the past few years and they're both TM guys. I'm partial to Ping because as a lefty,there is very little ,if anything,Ping doesn't offer.

[dpb5031]

PING = Karsten Manufacturing = Great company and great story from the beginning.  Ping founder Karsten Solheim, a talented engineer, was passionate about golf and a true innovator.  His is a true American success story.

I especially like the fact that as a private company, they don't have to worry so much about pleasing shareholders by beating their numbers quarter over quarter.  They can take a long term strategic approach and continue to produce products that are consistent with Karsten's original theme of performance based innovative thinking and design, combined with the best custom fitting and customer service in the industry.

[Gone Right]

I've noticed that as I and my playing partners get older we are using Ping more and more, to the point where my regular fourball all use Ping clubs.  I think that younger players tend to see Ping as stodgy and boring, and prefer to go with more faddish styles, such as TM and Cobra at present.  Lower handicap golfers have gone with Titleist and Mizuno for the most part because of their excellent forged clubs, a market Ping has avoided until now.  What I've noticed, though, is that as these better players have aged, or when they haven't had time to devote to maintaining their handicaps, they have gone looking for solutions to Ping.  I think Ping offers a simple solution to lost timing or lack of practise, through producing more forgiving and functional clubs.  They may not be the prettiest, but they are incredibly consistent and easy to use.

[Llortamaisey]

I could see how golfers today don't respect Ping as an elite company.

Ping is starting to have Taylormade tendencies. The product life cycles are getting shorter. They don't protect MAP as diligently as they once did. Buyers can now find Ping clubs at discount stores that would have never been able to get a Ping account 10 years ago.

I guess cash is king.

[BigPete]

I think it's fair to say Ping have fallen behind in terms of innovation - there was a time when they literally reinvented how golf clubs look, but now they seem to stick to their own guns in terms of design, which is fair enough and admirable.

As far as tour presence goes, it's hard to argue with Bubba, Westwood, Mahan, Oosthuizen (all in top 20 OGWR and winning big tournaments)

I still see a lot of Ping in juniors bag at my club (Wales), but not as much as Titleist and TM. I'm not sure if they still throw money at junior golf like they used to, but I don't think they're "Callawayed out" just yet..

[DrInhale]

I always compare other equipment to the gold standard Ping.  I know Ping putts a lot of R&D behind every club creating quality equipment.  Plus, there customer service is exceptional vs poor customer service ie Titleist.  I don't fall for the marketing blitz like Callaway and Taylormade; this has turned me off to these companies.

[richard t]

Is there a lot of good stuff out there? Well, I'm sure. Got Eye2s when they came out. Never looked back. All I buy is Ping. Don't care if they are 1st, 2nd,10th. Call Mr. Titleist or Mr. WHoever and see if they will the things Ping will do for you Jeff is correct about the Government contracts. I'd guess the club business is a 'sideline' for the Solheims. Three of the things I count on are, Ping, Thrillhouse and 'Cool Canadians.'

[SHORTBUTSTR8]

wjdpar1, on 11 October 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

IMO their quality has gone south.  The Anser line screams "me too", definitely late to the party.

+1 on this.  Since they went to China.  Look at the finish issues they are having with the i20 and S56.

[Pughypro]

For as long as I can remember Ping have always been happy to be a brand reliant heavily on customer service and custom fit.  I do not believe they want to reflect the marketing strategy of TM, Cobra etc...

You rarely find Ping products discounted here in the UK and this tells you that they do not need to discount to sell.  TM have such a short product cycle that they often heavily discount lines in preparation for the next one.

Also on the point some have raised about being late to the adjustability game, as primariliy a custom fit company, Ping believe on getting people fit correctly in the first instance and there being no real need to subsequently mess about with the club.

I know most of us on here are "club ho's" and love to fiddle and tinker with shafts and specs, but when fitted properly in the first place adjustability becomes pretty redundant unless you make major swing changes.

[ajschn06]

^{IMO the only problem with Ping right now is they are missing out on a BIG opportunity...  They recently started releasing remakes of the Eye 2 wedges, if they made an entire set of these with conforming grooves, they would sell so fast they couldn't make enough sets...}

Edited by ajschn06, 12 October 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[LongBomber12]

I'm a club ho; I've gone through more sets in the last 3 months than underwear (jk) But I have tried a lot of irons the last few months to try to find something that works for me and feels great doing it. I was never a Ping fan, hated the eye 2 series, the I15s had too much toe weight so the ball just didn't fly to my liking, same thing in the I20s. I had heard a lot about the S56s so I traded my Ap2 712s for a set and wedges. I have to say, these irons are simply amazing. I didn't shoot my best round (I suck at putting) but hot damn did these irons perform. I'm a good ball striker and catching these on the sweet spot makes them go forever and feel great.

Sorry about the babble, I'm just someone who is really impressed with this club that has never been a Ping fan.

Back to the question, I think Ping is just fine where they are at. And in the end, it all boils down to which club works for you, regardless of brand. Whew, I'm hoping this is my epiphany so I can stop HOing so DAMN much! haha

[BrianL99]

Llortamaisey, on 12 October 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

I could see how golfers today don't respect Ping as an elite company.

Ping is starting to have Taylormade tendencies. The product life cycles are getting shorter. They don't protect MAP as diligently as they once did. Buyers can now find Ping clubs at discount stores that would have never been able to get a Ping account 10 years ago.

I guess cash is king.

I just bought a set of the supposedly "ridiculously over-priced PING Anser Forged".   After checking prices at probably 50 PING Dealers, I think I ended up getting about $40 off the List Price.  I'd say they protect their pricing better than any equipment manufacturer in the industry.

[Woodridge]

dpb5031, on 12 October 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

PING = Karsten Manufacturing = Great company and great story from the beginning.  Ping founder Karsten Solheim, a talented engineer, was passionate about golf and a true innovator.  His is a true American success story.

I especially like the fact that as a private company, they don't have to worry so much about pleasing shareholders by beating their numbers quarter over quarter.  They can take a long term strategic approach and continue to produce products that are consistent with Karsten's original theme of performance based innovative thinking and design, combined with the best custom fitting and customer service in the industry.

+1000

Ping can manage it's growth and maintain its price points better than anyone. Because of this, their return on investment has to be pretty impressive. Ping is never going to be the sexy brand, but they've created a business model that has stood the test of time. If I could choose one golf club manufacturer to work for in a management capacity, it would be Ping, hands down.

[Willie Malay]

It's obvious that Ping owners are elitists and brand-blind. Amazing to read their thoughts. A study in self-absorption. While I had a Ping G5 that I really liked, it didn't stop me from trying other brands. In my bag I have TM, Cleveland, Vokey, Yes, Golfsmith, Titleist balls, Mizuno gloves. I'm not limiting myself to TM, nor Ping, nor any other brand. Amazing, the thoughts expressed by Ping owners.
I bought TM RBZ 3 wood. While it was a very long-hitting club(off the tee), I soon found out it wasn't very good off the fairway. I don't hide and never mention that, thinking my world might cave in because they made a club that doesn't work for me. I share my experiences. Like the Ping Zings I had. They went straight. That was it. You couldn't work the ball with them. No big deal. I got something else.
It's like their whole existence revolves around Ping and if you dare to mention another brand, they jump on you. I found that out when I mentioned my experiences with the Cleveland CG16. Well, you can't possibly mention them, it isn't a Ping. They're almost as bad as Tiger fans......almost

Edited by Willie Malay, 12 October 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Gripit_Swiftit]

BrianL99, on 12 October 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Amrish, on 12 October 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

Here in SA Ping is ultra elite, if you walk past the clubhouse on a saturday afternoon at my home course prob 60% of the guys are bagging tm. cally, nike and titleist account for the other 35% and maybe 5% made up of ping, ws etc.
the mentality here is that you only play ping if you can afford it, which usually means you have a mansion and 6 cars especially given that the anser irons here are selling for the equivalent of $2000.
and its only old people ...

Back in the 80's, you could just about finance a trip to Japan or anywhere in that part of the world, by bringing a new set of PING irons with you & selling them when you got there.  I'm sure their global marketing has improved, but I understand they're still a very desirable oddity in many parts of the world.

From a pretty credible source, this is what their market share looked like worldwide, in 2009.

Interesting how big of a share "others" have.

Never been a fan of ping gear.  Always looks clunky and off to me.  They do have a cult following from guys though.

Agree with the "me too" vibe from their Anser line.  Late to the party and trying to find excuses for why.

Titleist has always been regarded as the "elite" line with my group.  I'm a big fan of playing whatever will help me shoot the best score and instill confidence in my game.  Ping doesn't do that for me.

[cardoustie]

Well I love all my PING stuff.  High quality and top notch customer service

My brother just got a set of the new Ansers and is slowly seeing the PING light at the end of the tunnel

Right now I am on the phone with Dana White.   He can offer a purse of 24 beers and Roots olympic toque for a MMA match "a who is cooler / funnier" longdrive showdown between Thrillhouse and MtlJeff.

[TomWishon]

clewallen, on 11 October 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Just thinking, 5 years ago Ping was golf... If you said anything golf related it was ping. Now with a younger cliental base, and all the marketing schemes. I believe taylormade is #1 bran in sales ( could be wrong just guessing )

So did they refuse to evolve and change with the times and get passed by from a company stand point or are they just as strong as before?

IMHO based on 30+ yrs in golf clubhead and shaft design engineering, Ping is THE number one engineering company in the golf industry.  Always have been too.  Others most certainly do have some good minds in their employ but from an engineering standpoint, Ping has always been at the top.  For one, Ping has always, always been headed by an engineer.  All of the other companies have been headed by people who came from sales and marketing.  You may not think that important, but it is in this discussion because it means Ping has always placed the highest priority on their engineering and technical side.

Of all the golf companies, Ping is the only one that produces highly engineered parts for other industries like aerospace and medical to name a couple. If you've boarded a plane and seen one of those little things sticking out from the side of the fuselage below the cockpit, that's a pitot tube and it's likely that Ping's other engineering division made that.  Had a friend who got a new prosthetic hip?  That too may have come from Ping.

Also, as one of the posters said, Ping has always been a privately held company.  All the other major golf companies are publicly traded.  That difference can have a little different effect on how a company is run.  Ping usually brings out new models when they want to.  The others typically bring out new models because they have to.

What you're seeing with TM being #1 in drivers and the current "household name" among the club companies - or years before when this or that other OEM was the "hot" company - is not so much a statement of engineering capability but the fact that the golf industry is not only a technical industry, but a "fashion and image business" too.  $50 mill a year, every year, in image and brand marketing can compel a lot of people into thinking they bought something on the basis of technology when in reality the marketing first triggered the "this is cool and I want that" part of the brain to lead to making the buy.

In the end, most of the top companies made good product.  A few of the ones you haven't heard of very much do too.  What ordains if the club works well typically has less to do with the engineering of the clubhead than how well the length, loft, lie, face angle, shaft, total weight, swingweight and grip properly fits that golfer's size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics.  But what draws most golfers to a product is marketing oriented.

TOM

[jmccaff]

My bias towards Ping runs pretty strong all based on the looks of the clubs.  I play with many guys who all had the eye's, i15's and Zing's and I never got it at all.  They all looked horrible.  A couple of years ago I tried a Ping i15 driver for the hell of it and I couldn't believe how good looking it was and it performed.  Just recently I've been looking to replace my tired 909h 21* and out of all the hybrids I tried the new Anser 20* was the best.  I also just found a G15 4 wood that I plan on gaming as I was bombing it past my Titleist and it was more forgiving.  I'm not sure what's going on but I think Ping has come a long, long way in all their clubs.   Never thought I would say that.....ever.

[Gripit_Swiftit]

Woodridge, on 12 October 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

dpb5031, on 12 October 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

PING = Karsten Manufacturing = Great company and great story from the beginning.  Ping founder Karsten Solheim, a talented engineer, was passionate about golf and a true innovator.  His is a true American success story.

I especially like the fact that as a private company, they don't have to worry so much about pleasing shareholders by beating their numbers quarter over quarter.  They can take a long term strategic approach and continue to produce products that are consistent with Karsten's original theme of performance based innovative thinking and design, combined with the best custom fitting and customer service in the industry.

+1000

Ping can manage it's growth and maintain its price points better than anyone. Because of this, their return on investment has to be pretty impressive. Ping is never going to be the sexy brand, but they've created a business model that has stood the test of time. If I could choose one golf club manufacturer to work for in a management capacity, it would be Ping, hands down.

How does this relate to their equipment being elite?  Walmart is a great company to work for but they aren't elite.  Are you a Ping employee?

Sexy brand?  They came out with an all pink driver this year.  I completely understand why they did it and I am happy that they did but.....it is all pink.

[Gripit_Swiftit]

TomWishon, on 12 October 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

clewallen, on 11 October 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Just thinking, 5 years ago Ping was golf... If you said anything golf related it was ping. Now with a younger cliental base, and all the marketing schemes. I believe taylormade is #1 bran in sales ( could be wrong just guessing )

So did they refuse to evolve and change with the times and get passed by from a company stand point or are they just as strong as before?

IMHO based on 30+ yrs in golf clubhead and shaft design engineering, Ping is THE number one engineering company in the golf industry.  Always have been too.  Others most certainly do have some good minds in their employ but from an engineering standpoint, Ping has always been at the top.  For one, Ping has always, always been headed by an engineer.  All of the other companies have been headed by people who came from sales and marketing.  You may not think that important, but it is in this discussion because it means Ping has always placed the highest priority on their engineering and technical side.

Of all the golf companies, Ping is the only one that produces highly engineered parts for other industries like aerospace and medical to name a couple. If you've boarded a plane and seen one of those little things sticking out from the side of the fuselage below the cockpit, that's a pitot tube and it's likely that Ping's other engineering division made that.  Had a friend who got a new prosthetic hip?  That too may have come from Ping.

Also, as one of the posters said, Ping has always been a privately held company.  All the other major golf companies are publicly traded.  That difference can have a little different effect on how a company is run.  Ping usually brings out new models when they want to.  The others typically bring out new models because they have to.

What you're seeing with TM being #1 in drivers and the current "household name" among the club companies - or years before when this or that other OEM was the "hot" company - is not so much a statement of engineering capability but the fact that the golf industry is not only a technical industry, but a "fashion and image business" too.  $50 mill a year, every year, in image and brand marketing can compel a lot of people into thinking they bought something on the basis of technology when in reality the marketing first triggered the "this is cool and I want that" part of the brain to lead to making the buy.

In the end, most of the top companies made good product.  A few of the ones you haven't heard of very much do too.  What ordains if the club works well typically has less to do with the engineering of the clubhead than how well the length, loft, lie, face angle, shaft, total weight, swingweight and grip properly fits that golfer's size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics.  But what draws most golfers to a product is marketing oriented.

TOM

Well this statement is false.  "Those little things sticking out of the fuselage below the cockpit called pitot tubes/ probes" are most certainly not engineered or manufactured by anyone from Ping, past or present.  They are designed, engineered and manufactured by the company I work for and it is most certainly not Ping.  We do all of the manufacturing and engineering in our facilities with our employees and we sell more than any other company in the world on every aircraft you've ever been on.  I currently sell them and would be happy to outfit your aircraft with the correct application for your needs.

I won't go into the prosthetic hips but I know they are not all engineered by Ping.  Medtronic comes to mind.  Also, not sure how that relates to golf clubs in any way.

I respect what you personally have brought to the game Mr. Wishon and I call you Mr. Wishon out of respect but Ping doesn't make flight critical Pitot's.


Not sure that having an engineer at the head of the business is ALWAYS a good idea.  They are stereotypically not the most personable people or best business men in the group.  The smartest, usually, but intelligence and business accumen are separate concepts.