155 replies to this topic

[jmvargas]

i am now an Adams guy but if i were to change equipment  my next  three(3)choices based on order of preference would be as follows:

1) Bridgestone/Tourstage
2) Ping
3) Mizuno

...if Ping were to improve their forged offerings they would be on top..

[bullie76]

Has anyone ever had any problems with Ping's club repair service? I sent a set of Eye 2's back to Ping in early Sept for reshafting and have yet to receive them. A friend of mine did the same exact thing a month earlier and he got them back in 16 days. They said they ran out of the shafts I wanted which held up the order. When they finally shipped the completed set, they shipped to the wrong address. Reshipped on Monday and they still are not here.

I'm starting to get pissed.

[kg92lefty]

There is a difference between being 'elite' and 'popular'.  Just because you see more taylormade and titleist does not mean that they are better than ping.  Those are the brands that people see most on television and the brands that market the most.

[HackerVance]

Ping is a company with an admirable history, great innovation, and Ive liked all of the Ping products that Ive had.

[SSafran]

Nessism, on 11 October 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I like Ping.  Good customer service, focus on custom fitting, US based company, solid offerings that focus on function, not bling (other than the Anser line).  Their 17-4 stainless steel clubs are uber durable, far more so than forged carbon steel club heads.  To me that's Ping's signature; functional clubs, custom fit, built to last.

Built to last is great for a guy who doesn't buy a lot of clubs but for OEMs the target is the club 'ho who buys new clubs all the time.

I've owned about 25 sets of Mizuno irons over the last 15 years.  At least 10 of those....probably about 12 sets were bought new (I've lost track).  

The guy who has a set of Eye2s in his bag for 20 years isn't the guy you make money off of.  It's the schmuck like me you want to get on the end of your hook.

[BrianL99]

bullie76, on 19 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Has anyone ever had any problems with Ping's club repair service? I sent a set of Eye 2's back to Ping in early Sept for reshafting and have yet to receive them. A friend of mine did the same exact thing a month earlier and he got them back in 16 days. They said they ran out of the shafts I wanted which held up the order. When they finally shipped the completed set, they shipped to the wrong address. Reshipped on Monday and they still are not here.

I'm starting to get pissed.

I've used PING repair 4 times in the last 6 months, never a problem & amazingly inexpensive & fast.

[bullie76]

BrianL99, on 20 October 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

bullie76, on 19 October 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Has anyone ever had any problems with Ping's club repair service? I sent a set of Eye 2's back to Ping in early Sept for reshafting and have yet to receive them. A friend of mine did the same exact thing a month earlier and he got them back in 16 days. They said they ran out of the shafts I wanted which held up the order. When they finally shipped the completed set, they shipped to the wrong address. Reshipped on Monday and they still are not here.

I'm starting to get pissed.

I've used PING repair 4 times in the last 6 months, never a problem & amazingly inexpensive & fast.

There is a reason I use the avatar that I have. Seems like no matter who I deal with, I get screwed. Maybe the born loser character might be more appropriate.

All I can say is I'm fast approaching 2 months on this ordeal. I'm done with Ping after crap. I just hope I eventually get the clubs back.

[tmax77]

Even the best companies can have mistakes, but by and large I feel there is no equal as far as innovation and quality. Yes other companies might market more, but those companies don't have quite as many loyalists that ping has....Titleist is close with there golf ball, but they keep raising the price causing many to search for new brands, as far as Ping goes they keep there prices in check with the rest with the exception of the Anser irons which I personally feel they could care less whether or not they sell them they have them available for the people that really want that type of club from ping they dont produce a lot of them thus there cost is going to be higher...

[EchtLoon]

Gripit_Swiftit, on 12 October 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Not sure that having an engineer at the head of the business is ALWAYS a good idea.  They are stereotypically not the most personable people or best business men in the group.  The smartest, usually, but intelligence and business accumen are separate concepts.

You're probably right from the point of view of outright company profits, however the point was with respect to what this delivers for the customer, and as an engineer will (presumably) always be looking to deliver the best solution, not the cheapest, or the one with the best marketability (white heads anyone?), then the comment is spot on imo.

[EchtLoon]

ayotte2, on 13 October 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Recently this person told me that this year all their customers want is the i20's and G20's. They are enjoying sales like never before because of these 2 models. That is a pretty big endorsement IMO.

Absolutely this, the best two irons on the market this year (here anyway), I've come from a background of Titleist and Mizuno the last 15/20 years, but was on the verge of going G20 until the i20 came along, now have 4-U set, plus 3wood which is also immense, and just invested in the Gorge wedges as well.  An anser hybrid looks like replacing my Razr X in the new year, and if I can get a full shaft fitting somewhere, the i20 driver, which I've treid in various specs, is likely to bump the 910 as well.

Ping are quite simple selling the best stuff in 2012, and if you havn't tried it, chances are you're missing out.

Willie Malay, on 12 October 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

It's obvious that Ping owners are elitists and brand-blind. Amazing to read their thoughts. A study in self-absorption. While I had a Ping G5 that I really liked, it didn't stop me from trying other brands. In my bag I have TM, Cleveland, Vokey, Yes, Golfsmith, Titleist balls, Mizuno gloves. I'm not limiting myself to TM, nor Ping, nor any other brand. Amazing, the thoughts expressed by Ping owners.

Until 2012, I had a hotch potch of 6 manufacturers in my bag, I now have 3 (if you count oddyssey/callaway as one) and am quite likely to be down to two by 2013. Ping currently make the best gear in every sector except putters imo. What you express above is what I would attribute to TM owners, who, certainly in Scotland, tend to have matching everything (including bag and glove), and consider no alternative, Ping owners tend to buy their stuff because it works.

[somaplr]

Ping owners are brand blind?  That's just ridiculous.

I'm on my fist set of pings after a lifetime of Mizzies. Horrible blanket statement.

[Conrad1953]

I've owned a bunch of different sets of Ping irons
the last 3 or 4 years, including G10, Rapture V2,
S58, S56 and i20.

Thinking back on what Stage said about the older
Ping irons being played by a player for years as he
progressed from a 20HC up to a scratch, I'd have to
say the i20s would be the modern equivalent.

Any 20 HC who plays the G series can play the i20.
They are very forgiving and easy to launch high. As
a player improves he can stay with these irons as
they are relatively compact and allow for shot-making.

These irons are at the technological forefront and are
also as "long" as any other irons out there today.
They have a soft, almost forged feel to them and have
Won awards as well as praise from many.

Whether you like these irons or not, you can't say that
Ping is a tired old company that is still basking in past
glories. They're still pushing the envelop, just not
shouting from the rooftops like some others.

[tnord]

Ping is my favorite golf brand.

i've only been in the game for 4 years, with no brand affiliation coming into it...especially for equipment.  I used a set of hand me down titleist DCIs my first year, then the next year decided I was going to get fitted and buy my own.  after doing a fair comparison and testing i ended up with the i10s.  used a hand-me-down odyssey rossie putter for a couple years, then decided i wanted my own. spent a solid month searching for what i wanted going and trying out putters multiple days each week at the store.  ended up with a Ping Scottsdale B60.

when i took a trip to phoenix i visited Karsten Mfg facility, got fitted for some irons, bought a divot tool and Karsten Solheim's biography over in the repair shop.

to me....especially the "Anser style" models....you can either buy a Ping putter or you can buy immitators, and that includes peoples beloved scotty. i just bought a Ping redwood ZB that is the best looking putter I've ever seen.

a year ago i did another thorough search for a new set of irons.  multiple mizunos, nike VR Pro blades, TM MC, R11, Cobra S3, a couple cally's, and I believe one or two more.  i picked the Ping S56. then i went to do a proper, outdoor with launch monitor fitting.  the pro and the guy running the LM were on TM staff, and this was at one of TMs 6 performance lab locations in the entire country.  he really wanted to get me into something TM (probably got a better commission on it), but even he agreed that i hit the S56 the best.

recently i bought my wife her first set of clubs.  you guys know how that type of thing can go when you try to tell your wife what to do or what she wants.  i handed her about 5 different irons with some basic instructions on how to test them (hit 4 or 5 with each, switch clubs, go through this a few times, get it down to your two favorites, then repeat the process) and didn't say a thing.  she came back and said "i like this one."  sure enough it was Ping's new Serene.  i asked her why...she said "because it doesn't feel wimpy, it goes the highest, and when i don't hit it well it doesn't hurt as much."  basically she said it was the most forgiving.  we did the same thing with drivers and she came back with the Ping driver as well without even knowing that it matched her irons.

no, i'm not a blind Ping fanboi, I have a Nike driver, Nike 3w, and Adams hybrid.  but Ping's innovation throughout the years with perimiter weighting, the anser putter, the casting process they invented, the iPing putting app, has given me great respect for the company.

[3put]

Yeah, they're in the rear view mirror and fading quickly!

[kellygreen]

Ping is doing just fine.

The issue is that Ping simply has a different brand philosophy and marketing strategy than does Taylor Made.

Taylor Made is a publicly-owned company....and has to live by the rules of Wall Street.   Which means--in order to keep investors happy and the stock price up---it has to show a consistent pattern of growth in sales and revenue each year.  Which is why Taylor Made has such an aggressive marketing strategy, so many product lines, and an incredibly short product cycle.   They need to keep attracting new customers...and need to churn product through the hands of the customers they do have.

Taylor Made---for now---is managing to keep all these plates spinning without alienating their customers, but that may change in time, if they start to feel taken advantage of.  Callaway (when it first went public) tried a similar strategy, and it eventually blew up in their face.

Ping, OTOH, is still a privately owned company.  So it only has to satisfy (in terms of profitability) the desires and ambitions of the Solheim family, and the business' creditors.

As a result, Ping has been free to take the approach of only bringing new product to market when it feels that it will have significant performance benefits to the player.  So you tend to see a steady EVOLUTION of particular product lines geared towards particular types of players.  Rather than an effort to be "revolutionary" at regular intervals...and throwing product at the market in an effort to see what (if anything) sticks.

Among publicly traded companies, Titleist has tried to implement a similar strategy, but (unlike Taylor Made) it has the revenue generated by its utter domination of the golf ball market to run interference for whatever additional revenue it may be "leaving on the table" by pursuing that strategy instead of what Taylor Made is doing.

Bottomline, I see what TM is doing as an effective "short-term greedy" strategy..but one that might have very bad long term consequences for the brand.

What Ping and Titleist are doing are "long-term greedy" strategies.  Where you give up some revenue in the short-term, but you win in the long term by cultivating intensely loyal customers.

[pingman1]

kellygreen, on 21 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Ping is doing just fine.

The issue is that Ping simply has a different brand philosophy and marketing strategy than does Taylor Made.

Taylor Made is a publicly-owned company....and has to live by the rules of Wall Street.   Which means--in order to keep investors happy and the stock price up---it has to show a consistent pattern of growth in sales and revenue each year.  Which is why Taylor Made has such an aggressive marketing strategy, so many product lines, and an incredibly short product cycle.   They need to keep attracting new customers...and need to churn product through the hands of the customers they do have.

Taylor Made---for now---is managing to keep all these plates spinning without alienating their customers, but that may change in time, if they start to feel taken advantage of.  Callaway (when it first went public) tried a similar strategy, and it eventually blew up in their face.

Ping, OTOH, is still a privately owned company.  So it only has to satisfy (in terms of profitability) the desires and ambitions of the Solheim family, and the business' creditors.

As a result, Ping has been free to take the approach of only bringing new product to market when it feels that it will have significant performance benefits to the player.  So you tend to see a steady EVOLUTION of particular product lines geared towards particular types of players.  Rather than an effort to be "revolutionary" at regular intervals...and throwing product at the market in an effort to see what (if anything) sticks.

Among publicly traded companies, Titleist has tried to implement a similar strategy, but (unlike Taylor Made) it has the revenue generated by its utter domination of the golf ball market to run interference for whatever additional revenue it may be "leaving on the table" by pursuing that strategy instead of what Taylor Made is doing.

Bottomline, I see what TM is doing as an effective "short-term greedy" strategy..but one that might have very bad long term consequences for the brand.

What Ping and Titleist are doing are "long-term greedy" strategies.  Where you give up some revenue in the short-term, but you win in the long term by cultivating intensely loyal customers.

Excellent analysis

[ILBrad`]

I posted a similar question regarding callaway last week. How callaway has been a step behind other companies. Even their new driver, green...really copy of the RBZ. Big Bertha days are over.

Back to PING, I consider them the Buick of golf. Classy, not elite like Cadillac, but has the same regular customers who swear by their products. Quality.. yes, boring ..yes, a step behind the game with the anser driver..yes.. Hunter mahan is not going to help sell clubs. Bubba, maybe. Maybe they should promote the senior tour players for advertising.

TaylorMade, Titleist, Nike, and Cleveland are still the tops IMO. They take risks, and continue to be at the top. I included Nike,b/c they have improved every year on their products.

[matchavez]

The thing Ping has going for it is that Ping is the first brand people think of for getting custom iron builds. Rightfully so; their equipment can compensate for many different golf swings. Other manufacturers do this, but it is less strategic. This always makes Ping a tougher sell to the retailer -- the guy getting a commission would rather sell you the one off the shelf, in a box, than to go through the order and fit process.

Only a private company could do what Ping does, and the whole industry has benefitted from this.

[kevcarter]

I still see Ping as very much Elite. Wonderful fitting system and quality equipment. There will always be ups and downs, but IMHO, Ping will always be a Playa, they get it.

Kevin

[Pepperturbo]

Ping has evolved.. they are bringing to market Anser "forged" irons, and make fine S56 blade like irons for skilled golfers.  Forged is impressive, as they have always been cast.  But not convinced the word "elite" is a fitting description for any OEM company.  Its better associated with a specific product line, as "elite" equates to skill.

[Boogaloo_Jones]

One fantastic feature that sticks out of my mind everytime I hear Ping is the durability of their irons.  I remember using a demo 7 iron i10 and my ball was against a pretty thick tree root.  I took a swing and I thought the i10 would have had some serious damage.  Took a look and the tree root was demolished but there was not a dent on the i10.  Just a tiny scratch.  I've played i5's, eye2's, and G10s and have been nothing but impressed with their performance.

Being in for a set of irons, Ping will definitely get a look from me in the next couple of months.

[kevcarter]

Pepperturbo, on 21 November 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Ping has evolved.. they are bringing to market Anser "forged" irons, and make fine S56 blade like irons for skilled golfers.  Forged is impressive, as they have always been cast.  But not convinced the word "elite" is a fitting description for any OEM company.  Its better associated with a specific product line, as "elite" equates to skill.

What does "it" mean.

Why do we always get into these little semantics pissing contests? :-)

Cheers,
Kevin

[Pepperturbo]

kevcarter, on 21 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Pepperturbo, on 21 November 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Ping has evolved.. they are bringing to market Anser "forged" irons, and make fine S56 blade like irons for skilled golfers.  Forged is impressive, as they have always been cast.  But not convinced the word "elite" is a fitting description for any OEM company.  Its better associated with a specific product line, as "elite" equates to skill.

What does "it" mean.

Why do we always get into these little semantics pissing contests? :-)

Cheers,
Kevin

There's no contest.  If you your toes are wet, your peeing on them.

[gmc357]

stage1350, on 13 October 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

pgagreg1, on 13 October 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

TP certainly did it first.
But in this it wasn't TP that Ping was copying
Scotty made them popular for the masses

Funny.  I believe Ray Cook had 200 wins AND milled putters before Cameron did.  Not to mention Giannini with Cleveland and Tad Moore.  You can paint your revisionist history anyway you want.  But the price point of the original Cameron offerings was hardly "popular with the masses."   Milled face Odysseys were much more popular.

Now, if we can get away from Greg's douchey need to defend Cameron and get back on topic, one of Ping's declining issues was the introduction of the G series of irons.  It represented a fundamental shift in their client base.  You'd see low caps and hackers alike with Eye 2, Zings, and ISI irons because the sole would get you through without digging, but had enough grind to allow a level of shotmaking.  There was one wood model for each series, take it or leave it.  It made the hackers still improve their game.  But it also gave them a set of clubs they could play all the way to single digits.

Today, the G series of irons has a wide sole, high bounce and offset configuration more like the Callaway GI irons.  Yes, they will elevate and go straight (or left if you actually have a swing due to offset) but you will have upgrade your clubs to the I series or S series as you get better.  The days of playing the same set of Pings for 20+ years will not happen anymore.

Ping lost a lot of pretige when the elimination of beryllium in golf clubs occurred.  The BeCu and BeNi irons and putters were legendary with players.  Combine that with caving on the groove rule and export of a lot of club manufacturing to China, and the company is a fraction of what it used to be.  The mistique of the BeCu Eye 2 wedge was eliminated when the groove rule declared them non-conforming under the new rules.  The Eye 2 XG wedges are nothing compared to the BeCu originals.

The other mistake that Ping made was to not adapt to the "right f**king now" attitude of today's buyer.  They want a set of irons that they can walk out the door with.  Fitting and custom options, while important for people that "get it," doesn't matter to most hackers.  Compare that to TM or Mizuno that have less options, but clubs are ready to go out the door.

There is opportunity for Ping to return to a place of power with the Anser series.  The Anser irons are a playable set for a -20 up to a plus handicapper.  Go more to a "one size fits all" for the bell curve out to the third standard deviation.  Go back to using WRX to modify clubs for the Professional and strong Amateurs regarding offset and grinds.  Doubly so with woods, hybrids, and wedges.  Between the Anser, I series, G series, and the occasional K series of woods, there is just too much differentiation.  Put it all into 1-2 good designs instead of creating 3-4 halfa$$ed models.

I think you hit the nail on the head. My first PINGs were G10's and I was a 25+ and was finally getting serious about playing. As my swing has gotten better they turned in to gentile draw then hook machines. Looking at them you can't tell that they are almost 7 years old and hit a bazillion balls, Still love them and they are the greatest irons I've played, but they are not in the bag due to the high bias.
Like thier hybrids but the woods never could stay in the bag for long.

Maybe it's time to look for some used i15's...

[geoga]

I sent my G5 irons back to Ping to get the lie adjustments because as I get older and because of the new "comfort"  shoes, which are lower, I have gone from a standard to a flat lie. It doesn't seem the norm but it works for me. Have gone from a 14 to a 9 hcp. in one season. These clubs are shovels but for me they work. Ping repair service was great and they got my clubs back to me in 3 days. Change to another mfg., not a chance! I have been playing golf for 4 decades and have had almost all of the "elite" clubs at one time or another and nothing compares to Ping. Nothing I like better than playing with the "young guns" and their TM, Nike and Titleist wonder clubs and beating them. You can't fault well made clubs no matter how much you try.  I also agree it may be time to look at I20's, but it will be hard replacing these "old" shovels.

[Turbs]

I have been a forged iron player for several years and have just purchased a set of Ping S56's and Tour S wedges. I really like the feedback these clubs provide while still presenting a "traditional" head shape. I played Eye 2's many years ago and only left Ping over visual preference for the classic head shape/forged feel. I got married for the second time 4 years ago and have been blessed with a fantastic family with two young children under 3 years. Now at the ripe age of 49 I find my time on the course has been decreased drastically and wanted the benefit of Ping's technology but still get a club with the "Classic looks" and the S56's provide me with both. I have been a member at private clubs for the past 12 years and everyday they set the bags out prior to a players t-time and there are a lot of  bags with ping products in them, which could be regional... but I think they have a great market image and are as strong as ever. Ping's tour presence is as strong as ever and very well represented.

cheers.

[kevcarter]

Pepperturbo, on 21 November 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

kevcarter, on 21 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Pepperturbo, on 21 November 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Ping has evolved.. they are bringing to market Anser "forged" irons, and make fine S56 blade like irons for skilled golfers.  Forged is impressive, as they have always been cast.  But not convinced the word "elite" is a fitting description for any OEM company.  Its better associated with a specific product line, as "elite" equates to skill.

What does "it" mean.

Why do we always get into these little semantics pissing contests? :-)

Cheers,
Kevin

There's no contest.  If you your toes are wet, your peeing on them.

LOL

Happy Thanksgiving Pepper!

[Anser3]

TaylorMade's R&D is above everybody else's. That is wy they put products out so fast. They also spend more on advertising than anybody. If you watch, other companies will come out with technology after TM, but they are comparable to TM"s product.  TM will develop  a product then immediately release it. Then they will slightly tweak the product and releae that 6 months o a year later. Then tweak that product slightly, etc. TM makes great clubs, but I will neevr buy them. Callaway was 2 years or so behind the adjustable driver trend. However, the Razr Fit is (arguably) the best adjustable driver on the market. The PINg Anser is the same.


That said, I love PING and only played PINg until last year (when I sold my Rapture V2 driver and Redwood putter)).  PING makes great products  they stand behind. their customer service is tops as well. They HAVE had some recent quality control issues concerning club specs (not product quality) such as clubs built to the wrong length or installing the wrong shaft flex in one club (they put an S flex C-Taper shaft in My S56 PW. I requested X flex. They corrected the issue on their dime--as it should have been-- and sent me a hat for the trouble. They even re-cleaned my entire set. The 3-9 iron all had the correct X-flex shafts in them).  Publicly, it may appear that PING has fallen behind. But they don't pay the advertising dollars that TM does. I will still argue that PING is the best golf company top to bottom. And yes, a very significant part of Karsten Manufacturing's revenue comes from aircraft parts (government contract work), not golf clubs.  BTW, PINg clothes are not made by PING. They contract that work out and put their logos on the stuff (VERY common in golf apparel).

[kloyd0306]

D-Fuzz, on 11 October 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

I think TaylorMade is more about the bling and the flash.  The thing about them that bothers me is how quickly they turn over their lines.  If you buy something at full-pop at the beginning of the year, it is likely on clear-out by the end because the next newest & greatest is on its way.  Callaway seems to have the same mentality.  I'm just not sure how a company can make enought significant changes year after year.  It also seems that people playing those lines tend to change out their clubs more frequently.  Ping, Titleist and Mizuno seem to keep their clubs in their line-ups a little longer and as such people hold onto them longer.  Needless to say, I've never played a lot of TaylorMade or Callaway stuff over the year.

Agreed. Taylor and Callaway have become marketing companies that just happen to sell golf clubs. They could market gardening accessories. It's just a product.

On the other hand, Ping and Mizuno are golf club manufacturers. Their focus is golf clubs and not marketing.

Cobra are trying to join the TMAG/Callaway club. Techno buzz and one size fits all.

For Karsten's size, they consistently manufacture high quality products. Their attention detail, again, given their size, is pretty amazing.

[MileHighClub]

Neither.  Ping hasn't been "elite" since the original Anser putter.  However, they still make great equipment that can compete with any other manufacturer.