59 replies to this topic

[2bGood]

I have Bushnell V2 and love it. I have a GPS but prefer the laser as I get better yardages.

[dan250yds]

Yeah theyre worth it. I got a Callaway one (cant remember the model but it was made by Nikon and its yellow) and its pin point accurate and i really like it. Downfall is I still like to pace stuff off because that to me is the best way to find a yardage. But I love my laser alot

[Bangin' B]

If you use it as a tool.. I say yes. As a crutch..  No. Using one on the range to find your yardage, or on a course to verify yardage books, or to points around the course they are great. But just using one instead of getting the feel and minds eye for yardage.. They can mess you up at times if you solely rely on them only.

[TheLastDon]

If you plan on playing tournament golf, get a rangefinder that is tournament legal. If you don't, get a golf gps app (golfshots is my pref.) for your cellphone, they are much cheaper and in some cases free. Yes they will help you shoot better.

[MountainKing]

I just started using one.   For me I have an eye condition that results in having bad depth perception among other this so judging distance has always been a struggle, especially off the tee boxes.  I've played two rounds and I really think it'll help me out a lot.

[duffer987]

+Church, on 05 October 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Do you have a smart phone?  I would say get a free gps app for now if you're worried about yardages.  Just my 2 cents.  I'm kinda cheap.

This.
I got SkyDroid for my Android phone in the summer. Cost me $1.99 and is all I need. Before that I used markers on the course and sometimes yardage guides. Try a cheap/free phone app and see how it goes. If you like 'em, then maybe step up to a 'proper' unit later.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I'm a bogey golfer, about an 18 handicap and shoot scores mostly in the upper 80's through mid 90's. I have one of the little Neo GPS units clipped to my push cart and usually keep it running throughout the round. I also own a laser but generally it stays at home.

I occasionally play golf with another member my club who is a much better golfer than me (he'd probably need to give me 20 strokes if we played a match from the back tees). He has a laser rangefinder which he uses on almost every approach shot.

For his game the rangefinder makes sense because 99% of the time he is shooting at the flag Now on a long shot he may favor the fat side of the green or something but generally he needs to know the to-the-hole distance because he wants to be pin high and has the distance control to make it happen.

For my game, knowing the exact distance to the hole only matters once I get with 100 or 120 yards of the green. And I don't drive the ball with 100 yards of the green so that means just on layups. So the GPS makes sense as I'm either shooting for the middle of the green or if it's a tricky shot I'm just making sure to cover the distance to the front of the green or making sure not to go over the back. So front-center-back does me some good.

About once a round the guy with the laser might ask me for a distance to the front or back of the green. And once or twice a round I might ask him his laser number. But generally he needs the laser and a GPS would not be any use to him. And vice versa.

So do you more often ask yourself "How far is it to the hole?" or do you wonder "How far to the middle (or front) of the green?". Depending on which thing you need to know, either a laser or a GPS will be the right tool for the job.

[1puttwoods]

msupl, on 05 October 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Get a GPS, they are accurate enough and you it's a lot less work.

Pointing and pressing a button is more work than downloading courses moving cursor and hooking it up to your computer for updates?

[MizzyMan]

Get one. You can use it for anything, not just golf. It will help you immensely with yardages. If you're a 10 at 14 obviously you spend time on your game and will likely get better and better. I've used GPS in the past and they are nowhere near as consistently accurate, at least none that I've seen. And laser is MUCH easier to use. Buy it, put it in your bag, take it out and push a button. I've seen guys fiddling with their gps gizmos so much they forgot how to play.

[myspinonit]

I reccomend that you be sure to get a rangefinder or GPS that can give you distance to reach-and get over- hazards, not just how far to the flag. That feature on my Callaway upro GPS has saved me  ton of strokes, especially for layup shots on par 5's, or looking at bunker distances in relation to the pin on par 3's.

I do like that my GPS also allows me to manually change the view to point actual distances to the specific pin location pin (not just the front, middle,  back snapshot), and to any spot on the hole for that matter.

Another feature on my GPS (and others) is the ability to record stats on the GPS (FW hit, putts, GIR). I can upload them to the Callaway website and it keeps 50 individual round stats and percentages, by synching wit the GPS.  The two things the GPS does NOT record that I think  would be useful are up and downs and penalty strokes, though you can manually add any penalty strokes on the website record of the round.

[Jamboy72]

I would use it as a tool...but not exclusively...I love mine when I'm playing new courses to get them figured out...it is a great resource, but not a must

[Flyersby99]

I agree that some form (laser or GPS) is worth it.  GPS is definatley cheaper and you can use smartphone for cheap or free apps.

To me, unless you can consistently hit your approaches within a few yards every time a GPS is better.  ie....if you hit your 8 iron 140-143 every time you may find the laser to be of use because you may need the pinpoint accuracy more but if you hit it 138-148 every time a GPS will be fine.

I find the laser to be limited and the GPS provided much more information.  I have the Garmin G5 which allows me to move the pin to the general area of the green where it is placed so I am not getting a front/middle/back reading but rather I am getting something closer to the actual distance.

To me, the ability of the GPS to show the hole and plan out doglegs, hazards carry and see blind shots outweighs the accuaracy of a laser.  I have used and played with both and have never seen a pin more than a few yards difference.  Most of the time my GPS is within 1-3 yards of my friends laser so if 6-9 feet is gonna ruin your round you are much better than me.

[northgolf]

Yes, a rangefinder is definitely worth it.

I have both a GPS and a Laser.

[ennead]

I would buy a laser and use GPS from your phone.  Like others have said, you knowing how far bunkers and trees and water are can be just as important as knowing how far the flag is.  That said, you don;t need super precise distances to avoid trouble, because your layup or whatever should be conservatively measured anyway, i.e. if you're 200 yards from a hazard you're probably not going to try to stop a 5 iron at 199 yards to come up just short.

[gigemaggs99]

cmmgolflab, on 05 October 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

If you are classifying both GPS units and lasers as a "rangefinder", than yes they are definitely worth it regardless of your handicap.  Knowing what distance you have to any object, whether a pin, bunker, bend of a dogleg, end of fairway, or a water hazard is always beneficial.  That said, there is plenty of debate on which is better, a GPS or a laser.

I'm a 3.  I've had an SG5 for three years and upgraded to an SGXw this year.  If you can get over the yearly fees, they are well worth the investment.  To me, a GPS that has a graphical display of the hole with distances is invaluable.  They are the closet thing to having a yardarge book.  Knowing where your target is, or danger, is priceless.

That said, I also purchased a Leupold GX3i this summer.  I really like the unit and it performs great, especially on approach shots when your target is the pin.  Where a laser is weaker, in my opinion, is when you are trying to understand your distances to avoid trouble, which is almost more important than your target.  Golf is a game about your misses, not your good shots.  You minimize the severity of your misses, your scores will go down.

They are both great pieces of equipment, but if I had to choose one it would be a GPS.

Thank you for this post. I'm in the process of deciding GPS vs Laser rangefinder. I like your ideas on both and especially your thoughts on course management. This is more how I play, trying to avoid the bad shots. I'd much rather play that way than trying to hit a perfect 152 yard shot.

I like how the GPS will give me FCB, I guess I could shot the same with a laser, it just seems to me (as never using either) in the past have to play by feel it would be an easier transition for me to go with a GPS. I think I would get frustrated quickly if I used a Laser and couldn't hit that exact number, since I don't hit 100% pure shots 100% of the time.

However, I can see that a laser rangefinder would be very nice on the driving range. I guess they both have their pros & cons.

I've spent that last couple of days reading hundreds or reviews and watching multiple youtube video reviews. One site that seems to talk about a good handful of these products is http://bestgolfgadgets.com/

Edited by gigemaggs99, 15 October 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

gigemaggs99, on 15 October 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I like how the GPS will give me FCB, I guess I could shot the same with a laser...

No, you really can't. Not realistically. If you have a steady enough hand and are real patient, in some situations (looking down from an elevated Par 3 tee f'rex) you can get a reliable estimate of front and back. But in most cases you can't really tell for sure what point you are lasering unless there's a bunker lip or some other raised feature.

If you play from front and back yardages you don't want a laser to get them.

Quote

it just seems to me (as never using either) in the past have to play by feel it would be an easier transition for me to go with a GPS.

I think I would get frustrated quickly if I used a Laser and couldn't hit that exact number, since I don't hit 100% pure shots 100% of the time.

Sorry to be blunt but if what kind of distance gadget you're using is going to affect your mental game that adversely, it's probably best to get your mental discipline in order before starting to use one.

I own both a GPS and a laser and it's just as tempting to kick yourself for bad shots with one as with the other. If you know that it is exactly 162 yards to cover the bunker and reach the front edge of the green yet you underclub and hit it in the bunker anyway, anyone prone to bad self-talk is going to have a field day with that one. Just like knowing it's 162 to the hole and hitting it five yard short and sucking back into the front fringe.

The way to decide is this. Next time you play a round of golf, pay attention to what distance you'd like to know. If you most often want to know "How far is it to the hole" or "is the flag on the front or back today" then you need a laser. If you more often want to know the back-of-green distance (to be sure and not go over) or front-of-green (to be sure to take enough club) you need a GPS. Either way you'll have to discipline yourself not to get angry over shots that you'd have considered acceptable if only you had not known the distance.

The fact that a gadget says "162" should not make you think "I've got to hit this exactly, perfectly 162 yards". Often times, all it does is let you decide "Is it 5-iron or 6-iron" the exact number could just as easily be "161" or "165" or whatever.

[yoshiod9]

Buy one or have your parents buy one for you.  It will help your game by getting your distances down to a fairly good number.  I use a gps and a rangefinder (Leupold GX-1) when necessary.  If I've never played the course, the gps is a life saver.  Otherwise, the rangefinder is my constant.

You can get the GX-1 for under $250 in a lot of different places.  Good luck!

[gigemaggs99]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 15 October 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

gigemaggs99, on 15 October 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I like how the GPS will give me FCB, I guess I could shot the same with a laser...

No, you really can't. Not realistically. If you have a steady enough hand and are real patient, in some situations (looking down from an elevated Par 3 tee f'rex) you can get a reliable estimate of front and back. But in most cases you can't really tell for sure what point you are lasering unless there's a bunker lip or some other raised feature.

If you play from front and back yardages you don't want a laser to get them.

Quote

it just seems to me (as never using either) in the past have to play by feel it would be an easier transition for me to go with a GPS.

I think I would get frustrated quickly if I used a Laser and couldn't hit that exact number, since I don't hit 100% pure shots 100% of the time.

Sorry to be blunt but if what kind of distance gadget you're using is going to affect your mental game that adversely, it's probably best to get your mental discipline in order before starting to use one.

I own both a GPS and a laser and it's just as tempting to kick yourself for bad shots with one as with the other. If you know that it is exactly 162 yards to cover the bunker and reach the front edge of the green yet you underclub and hit it in the bunker anyway, anyone prone to bad self-talk is going to have a field day with that one. Just like knowing it's 162 to the hole and hitting it five yard short and sucking back into the front fringe.

The way to decide is this. Next time you play a round of golf, pay attention to what distance you'd like to know. If you most often want to know "How far is it to the hole" or "is the flag on the front or back today" then you need a laser. If you more often want to know the back-of-green distance (to be sure and not go over) or front-of-green (to be sure to take enough club) you need a GPS. Either way you'll have to discipline yourself not to get angry over shots that you'd have considered acceptable if only you had not known the distance.

The fact that a gadget says "162" should not make you think "I've got to hit this exactly, perfectly 162 yards". Often times, all it does is let you decide "Is it 5-iron or 6-iron" the exact number could just as easily be "161" or "165" or whatever.

No offense taken, I agree with your train of thought. I'd rather know the FCB distances to the green, then pick a club accordingly. I'd rather hit to the middle of most greens and putt from there, I'm not good enough to go pin seeking on tight pins, then miss the green only to be trying to get up and down for par. I'd rather use my putter and atleast have a birdie putt. So, I think the FCB yardages would help me more than exact pin location so I can get the ball on the dance floor.

When I play now (no range finder or gps) I often find myself asking questions like, how far is it that hazard, I want to lay up on this par 5 but am not sure how far I'm am from the creek or the dogleg, etc...I think the GPS would help more me in this regard. I'm looking for help with course management and less for exact pin locations. I'd like to have a nice yardage book, I guess I could make one for them for the main courses I play all the time but it would take multiple times of walking the course to map out landmarks. I know nicer CC courses have pin sheets and sometimes have yardage books but the municipal courses I play do not offer them, but the green fees are very affordable so there is the trade-off.

So far I'm leaning towards the Garmin G3. I think it has the features I'm looking for.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I think the laser is a pretty specialized tool and the GPS will be more of "guide" so to speak while you basically go about business in your usual way.

I have both but the laser has been on the shelf for quite a while now. I like just clipping my little Neo GPS onto my push cart and let it run. I look down to find a distance whenever I have a question but some holes I never even look at it, especially playing my home course.

When I play a short enough set of tees to hit mid-irons to a lot of greens, I've often just looked at the back-of-green distance. Take enough club to reach the back if I hit it perfect and somewhere else on the green if I don't. Not a bad strategy for a bogey golfer, I must say. I did figure out quickly that when the hole is on the very, very front of a deep green the better strategy is "Take one club less than the one that will reach the back of the green". But otherwise, the back-only plan works surprisingly well.

I also use the front-of-green number if I'm going to need a 3-wood or something to reach the green (when playing from longer tees). If there's bunkers and such on the front of the green I make sure to club down where I can't reach the greenside bunkers unless I'm sure I can hit onto the front of the green, over the bunkers. I'd rather be chipping from 15 yards short of the green than in the bunker usually.

[gigemaggs99]

Fourmyle of Ceres, on 15 October 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I think the laser is a pretty specialized tool and the GPS will be more of "guide" so to speak while you basically go about business in your usual way.

I have both but the laser has been on the shelf for quite a while now. I like just clipping my little Neo GPS onto my push cart and let it run. I look down to find a distance whenever I have a question but some holes I never even look at it, especially playing my home course.

When I play a short enough set of tees to hit mid-irons to a lot of greens, I've often just looked at the back-of-green distance. Take enough club to reach the back if I hit it perfect and somewhere else on the green if I don't. Not a bad strategy for a bogey golfer, I must say. I did figure out quickly that when the hole is on the very, very front of a deep green the better strategy is "Take one club less than the one that will reach the back of the green". But otherwise, the back-only plan works surprisingly well.

I also use the front-of-green number if I'm going to need a 3-wood or something to reach the green (when playing from longer tees). If there's bunkers and such on the front of the green I make sure to club down where I can't reach the greenside bunkers unless I'm sure I can hit onto the front of the green, over the bunkers. I'd rather be chipping from 15 yards short of the green than in the bunker usually.

Agreed, when I was able to play more, in h/s and college by working at courses and getting to play when I was off of work and they had openings I learned to play to the middle of greens. I had a lot more birdie putts and a lot less chipping/pitching to get up and down. Since I had the time to play ALL the time at these same courses I'd learn which clubs would get me home and which would not. I also learned things like tee off with a 5 iron for example so I'd have a full 8 iron into the green vs a full driver and 1/2 sandwedge. I'd much rather have a full club into a green if possible.

[deukee]

Knowing the exact yardage vs. not to me is difference of 3~5 strokes at minimum.
It also speeds up play overall.

[thatboygaule]

Decided not to get one at the moment, have made up my own yardage book using google earth (REALLY GOOD PICTURE OF MY CLUB) and i have measured out the range signs and they were out, the 100YARDS sign is 130YARDS .They are all out by about 25-35 yards so i think for the sake of $300, 2 hours work on a computer is well worth it. So i will now be getting the 913D3 instead

Edited by thatboygaule, 20 October 2012 - 05:20 AM.

[theslflash689]

I think they definitely help. Especially actually on the range. It's helped me dial in exact distances. If I am 100 yards and in, I typically can get the ball within 10 feet now. It has become my goal on par 5's especially, getting in that 100 yard or less area.

[Shambles]

I think the rangefinder and the GPS are great for new guys as learning tools. No more fooling yourself about how far you actually hit your clubs, even on your home course. I have both but of the two I prefer the GPS because it is lighter and faster, plus I also have more options about which way to send the ball with what club and in what way. As you get better, either will still free you up to consider safer clubbing rather than taking an inordinate amount of time reading distances manually because you cannot afford a mistake. In all, either of the two make for a faster and more efficient round.


Shambles

[Andy L]

theslflash689, on 21 October 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

.... If I am 100 yards and in, I typically can get the ball within 10 feet now. It has become my goal on par 5's especially, getting in that 100 yard or less area.

10 feet, really? That would put you better than 1 on the PGA Tour average from inside 100 yards.  Currently Stricker has the #1 spot for accuracy within 100 yards, and that is 12 feet 1inch and the tour average is about 16 feet.

Edited by Andy L, 21 October 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[MaxBuck]

TheLastDon, on 06 October 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

If you plan on playing tournament golf, get a rangefinder that is tournament legal. If you don't, get a golf gps app (golfshots is my pref.) for your cellphone, they are much cheaper and in some cases free. Yes they will help you shoot better.

Using a golf gps application on a smartphone is every bit as much a violation of the Rules of Golf as using a "non-conforming" laser rangefinder.  In fact, having a smartphone on your person in a tournament is technically grounds for disqualification.  The reason?  A smartphone has the ability to allow one to get compass, weather and other information that the Rules of Golf do not permit.  I understand the USGA and R&A have issued a "clarification" that permits use of smartphones so long as access to "non-conforming" features requires access to the Internet, but that clarification is worded in a ridiculous way.  Basically, any smartphone has capabilities that should render it non-conforming.

Is this absurd?  Possibly, as I'd bet most caddies on Tour carry smartphones.  But it's equally absurd in my opinion to focus one's attention on the capabilities of a given rangefinder if one does not use the disallowed functions.

Edited by MaxBuck, 21 October 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[dpete]

At fourteen, you'll be needing to at least change out shafts if not completely replace clubs every year or two as you grow.   Your feel play will also change dramatically.  You'll also benefit from good coaching, and quality fittings.   I'd make sure you have the anticipated costs covered.   Either the gps or laser will help, but the strokes only get saved with a consistent swing which sends the ball the expected distance and direction (and that comes from practice and play).    Watch the used, market, as you can tell from this forum, there's a lot of churn from the guys who want the newest.  My advice is fix the problems which eat at your confidence, first.

[Craglyboy]

Andy L, on 21 October 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

theslflash689, on 21 October 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

.... If I am 100 yards and in, I typically can get the ball within 10 feet now. It has become my goal on par 5's especially, getting in that 100 yard or less area.

10 feet, really? That would put you better than 1 on the PGA Tour average from inside 100 yards.  Currently Stricker has the #1 spot for accuracy within 100 yards, and that is 12 feet 1inch and the tour average is about 16 feet.

If you were to ask people to measure out 10 feet I'm sure most would measure out to 18 feet people perception of distance is crap, which is why these tools are so good.

I have had both, and now solely use a laser. The GPS was useless the system I had you had to pay for each course individually, but the people who make the software are now defunct so if I play a new course I ant download a new course. It also takes forever to get your distances on a new hole. My dad has a sky caddie, and that thing is useless doesn't pick up any signal ever, having to depend on a signal is the single worst issue with GPS in my opinion. Before the signal issue the information is very basic on the GPS.

Where as with the laser it's literally point and shoot. If your a bit unsure if its hitting the right thing just aim at a tree behind to gauge wether its a correct result. You can literally shoot anything, so I don't understand this only to the pin thing I aim at bunkers trees water so I can estimate carries or lay ups. All it's dependant on is a battery. The only disadvantage is if you can't see what your aiming at, but generally if that's the case your really wide or obscure place so you should be more worried about your swing than your distance. Admittedly there are some courses with a lot of blind holes but that would be its only downfall.

TLDR, laser is better and rangefinders in general imo would be the single best thing to spend your money on to drop your scores besides lessons.

[goldenwave77]

Craglyboy, on 28 October 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Andy L, on 21 October 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

theslflash689, on 21 October 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

.... If I am 100 yards and in, I typically can get the ball within 10 feet now. It has become my goal on par 5's especially, getting in that 100 yard or less area.

10 feet, really? That would put you better than 1 on the PGA Tour average from inside 100 yards.  Currently Stricker has the #1 spot for accuracy within 100 yards, and that is 12 feet 1inch and the tour average is about 16 feet.

If you were to ask people to measure out 10 feet I'm sure most would measure out to 18 feet people perception of distance is crap, which is why these tools are so good.

I have had both, and now solely use a laser. The GPS was useless the system I had you had to pay for each course individually, but the people who make the software are now defunct so if I play a new course I ant download a new course. It also takes forever to get your distances on a new hole. My dad has a sky caddie, and that thing is useless doesn't pick up any signal ever, having to depend on a signal is the single worst issue with GPS in my opinion. Before the signal issue the information is very basic on the GPS.

Where as with the laser it's literally point and shoot. If your a bit unsure if its hitting the right thing just aim at a tree behind to gauge wether its a correct result. You can literally shoot anything, so I don't understand this only to the pin thing I aim at bunkers trees water so I can estimate carries or lay ups. All it's dependant on is a battery. The only disadvantage is if you can't see what your aiming at, but generally if that's the case your really wide or obscure place so you should be more worried about your swing than your distance. Admittedly there are some courses with a lot of blind holes but that would be its only downfall.

TLDR, laser is better and rangefinders in general imo would be the single best thing to spend your money on to drop your scores besides lessons.

Let me play devil's advocate a bit here...at the risk of being flamed.   If you're playing a course you know really well, then you know the green contours and where to land shots...if, like most courses, there are at least 150 markers...I think you can step off distances & get pretty close @ 1 yd./pace from my caddying days...a visual to adjust front/back of green allows pretty good est. + or - 2 or 3 yds.  If you don't strike the ball consistently enough to land it at a certain distance, this is all useless BS....someone hitting 3 GIR per round is not going to be helped by this...you're going to need to factor in wind/green hardness/your lie/green contour, etc. anyway...maybe "point and shoot" is quicker than a visual estimate...maybe

If you don't know/haven't played a course, but do have a good yardage book, and if you are good ball striker--then maybe you get some psychologicial comfort....also some visual layouts can be deceiving--so in that case I see the argument...also, I suppose GPS can act as a substitute for the yardage book if you don't have that...

If you're way less than 150, can't step off the distance, then maybe there is an argument....most times, though, you can estimate a 75 yd. mark---the point that is equally between the 150 marker and the center of the green and work from there...same point if you're around 50 yds...find the tri-sect pt. and work off of that.

Maybe I'm just being crotchety...I play with a guy who takes out the range finder for every shot...once/twice----then 3 rehearsal swings then go...no....wait...back off...go through the whole process again...come up from behind the ball...point and shoot, put it down....the result is rounds that are never less than 4.5 hrs...more frequently like 5 hrs...on an unfamiliar course we took 40 minutes to play the 1st hole...2 holes opened up...we almost got thrown off and the front 9 was ruined for me by the ranger hounding us...though he was justified....and I pleaded with him to light a fire under this guy....and we were riding that day, when I much prefer walking and playing at not more than 4.5 hrs....OK, OK I know the topic is not "slow play due to use of rangefinders or GPS" but in my experience I'm not sure they help speed up play....

Let me anticipate one further argument---the "I use my laser to check my distances at the range" so that I know my true yardages....I think doing this hitting off mats is worthless--and in fact, misleading....hitting off of real grass and doing this is worthwhile, but again, absent a swing change how often is this needed---maybe at the begininng of the season and 2 months later...as the weather warms and the swing starts to come around....I really doubt Tiger is checking..."Is my PW 129 or 133 today?"

[Craglyboy]

Are you saying you don't see the point of rangefinders?

Walking the yardages is fine for some people who understand its not a straight line across the marker and a radius from the middle of the green. So many times I have seen people walk of diagonal to the marker thinking 150+ my 16 paces and get it all wrong, also many amateurs don't account for the middle of the green and adding and subtracting to the pin.

I can understand it must be frustrating to play with a slow player. But are they slow because of the finder or would they be slow anyways. I'm not a slow player but I find the rangefinder speeds things up helping me make decisions and stick with them. Does get annoying when all my playing partners ask me to ,ensure theirs out though. Even then if I'm playing with my dad on a clear course, walking takes about 3 1/2 hours but I can understand others it may make them take longer on their shots.

I use mine at the range purely because the distances they say to pins is completely wrong.

I was a cynic before I was bought one but they make so much sense once you have one.