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Golf is a social game - not a race


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#1 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

First, I'd like to start off by saying that I am, by no means, a slow golfer. I don't have a long pre-shot routine. I don't fuss over the ball on the green, lining up and relining my putts. I don't freeze over the ball for a long time before I am finally able to pull the trigger. I walk the course the majority of the time and I am not a slow walker. But I am basically a bogey golfer – a 16 handicap. My best round ever is an 82, but I can be up in the high 90's as well. So by definition it will take me longer to play a round than a scratch golfer. Not only more shots, but also the occasional hunting for a ball in the trees.
OK that being said I'd like to relate my recent Scotland golf trip. I went alone and was therefore paired up with two or three other golfers on most (all but two) of the rounds I played. The first round was at the Old Course at St Andrews. An awesome experience! I was actually paired with a member (who took his well-behaved dog on the round with him) and two of his guests who happened to be from the Boston area. I had tons of fun and thoroughly enjoyed myself in every way (other than not shooting as good of a score as I would have liked). My next round was at Balcombie Golf Links where I was paired with a man and a woman from Australia. Again great golfing companions and fun round of golf. I next played the Old Course again – which is the main point of this post – and I will get back to shortly. Next I played two rounds at the Carnoustie Championship Course. The first round with a couple from Philly and a man from Pittsburg (living in Germany). Great fun, great golfing companions. The second round was with three men from Northern Ireland. Keeping with the pattern – tons of fun and great guys. Finally I played at North Berwick with another couple from Philly and another Australian. You got the pattern – tons of fun – great companions. Each of these rounds (with the exception of the second round at The Old Course) took about four hours 15 minutes – give or take. Not fast, not slow. But it gave us time to play our game, help each other look for lost balls in the deep grass, and just enjoy the experience – with minimal or no waiting around.

Now back to my second round at The Old Course. This time I was paired with three guys from Hawaii (although I doubt they were originally from there). And these guys basically just about ruined my experience. They were not friendly in the slightest. There was no camaraderie at all. They hardly ever said, "Nice shot" or anything like that as is normal on the golf course. They were so hung up on playing fast that they forgot golf is a social game. Whenever I was hitting off the tee I felt their presence and felt as if the thoughts were, "Let's go hit the ball – let's be on our way". They didn't help look for lost balls at all. On one hole – somewhere on the front nine – I was search for my errant tee shot and eventually found it. I tried to hack out of the deep grass and advanced the ball only slightly and still needed another punch out to the fairway. Meanwhile these guys are already on the green – still another 90 yards away for me. Also, they walked so fast that by the eight hole I was exhausted trying to run to keep up/catch up. By the thirtieth hole I was just wanting it to be done. Fine experience for the "Home of Golf". Glad I had such a great time my first round there. Oh – we finished in about three hours 35 minutes.

Finally on the 18th green I said something to one of them. I basically said that I was exhausted and they played too fast. To this he replied that I must be slow as normally at home his foursome finishes in two and a half hours. (Thinking about this later I call b.s.). Anyway I said to him, what I say to you all – "What is the rush? What am I gonna do if I rush around the golf course – go home and mow the bleeping lawn? I'd rather have an enjoyable round of golf."

No one likes to be waiting on every shot. But my story just illustrates that people who want to play fast no matter what have forgotten the social aspects of the game and the etiquette of the game as well. Slow down just a little bit end enjoy the golf – enjoy your companions  - enjoy the day.


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#2 kevcarter

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:39 PM

I agree but have a feeling you are about to be roasted. I'll be right behind you Bro...  :-)
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#3 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:53 PM

View Postkevcarter, on 24 September 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I agree but have a feeling you are about to be roasted. I'll be right behind you Bro...  :-)

Let them flame away... :-)

#4 JLTD63

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:55 PM

I agree 100%.  To me, a four-hour or even (gasp!) 4.5 hour round of golf isn't slow.  That sentiment on this site will earn you some serious verbal lashings from time to time though, so be ready...haha...

Cliff Notes for WRX slow play threads:

-  Guy will get on this thread and start yapping about how they can play 18 holes in an hour and a half or some crap like that, and he will go on to say that everyone should have the respect for his time and play just as quickly.

-  Guys will argue that him wanting everyone to play so fast isn't showing much respect now is it?

-  He'll fire back that golf is going to hell in a handbasket because nobody has four hours to burn what with kids, yards, etc, etc waiting at home.

-  Rebuttals will continue with folks saying that if guy doesn't have the time to devote to golf he should give it up.

-  Guy will say "See! Told you golf is going to cease to exist becasue people are giving it up since it takes to long!"

-  Repeat for 9 pages.

-  Thread is locked.

-  Many members banned.

#5 KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

Too bad you couldn't tell them to enjoy their race and let them go ahead. A 4-4.5 hour round is what I consider a proper pace for our game.


#6 SHIVAN

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:04 PM

There is a balance.  If one is not mindful of the position of the squad on the course, the social aspect turns a 4.25 hour round in to something much longer.

#7 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:06 PM

View PostJLTD63, on 24 September 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I agree 100%.  To me, a four-hour or even (gasp!) 4.5 hour round of golf isn't slow.  That sentiment on this site will earn you some serious verbal lashings from time to time though, so be ready...haha...

Cliff Notes for WRX slow play threads:

-  Guy will get on this thread and start yapping about how they can play 18 holes in an hour and a half or some crap like that, and he will go on to say that everyone should have the respect for his time and play just as quickly.

-  Guys will argue that him wanting everyone to play so fast isn't showing much respect now is it?

-  He'll fire back that golf is going to hell in a handbasket because nobody has four hours to burn what with kids, yards, etc, etc waiting at home.

-  Rebuttals will continue with folks saying that if guy doesn't have the time to devote to golf he should give it up.

-  Guy will say "See! Told you golf is going to cease to exist becasue people are giving it up since it takes to long!"

-  Repeat for 9 pages.

-  Thread is locked.

-  Many members banned.

Isn't the internet wonderful

#8 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:06 PM

View PostKILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE, on 24 September 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Too bad you couldn't tell them to enjoy their race and let them go ahead. A 4-4.5 hour round is what I consider a proper pace for our game.

I agree

#9 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:07 PM

View PostSHIVAN, on 24 September 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

There is a balance.  If one is not mindful of the position of the squad on the course, the social aspect turns a 4.25 hour round in to something much longer.

True

#10 boriqua'72

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:07 PM

There is a fine line...

I always hear guys talking only about how fast they played their round rather than how much fun they had... it always makes me scratch my head. They play golf with a video game mentality.

There is a happy medium between playing way too fast to the point where you don't actually appreciate what you're doing and taking the game way too serious to where your thinking about what you're trying to do way too long.

With me I just want to play with golfers who are aware... line your putts up in a subtle manner while others are putting or reading their putts.. take one look from behind preferably or if you're efficient about it take a look from in front also.. and play ready golf from the fairway to the tee.

But for me I have to enjoy and savor what I'm doing... I play a round on the course I play at during down times in about 3.5 hrs (alone with a cart).. when it's busy 4 hourish.

Edited by boriqua'72, 24 September 2012 - 01:09 PM.


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#11 SHIVAN

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

Also, when I was at the Old Course, the folks around the yard indicated that a typical round should take something less than four hours.....was there any indication, by the staff, that this was still the case?

#12 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

View Postboriqua, on 24 September 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

There is a fine line...

I always hear guys talking only about how fast they played their round rather than how much fun they had... it always makes me scratch my head. They play golf with a video game mentality.

There is a happy medium between playing way too fast to the point where you don't actually appreciate what you're doing and taking the game way too serious to where your thinking about what you're trying to do way too long.

With me I just want to play with golfers who are aware... line your putts up in a subtle manner while others are putting or reading their putts.. take one look from behind preferably or if you're efficient about it take a look from in front also.. and play ready golf from the fairway to the tee.

But for me I have to enjoy and savor what I'm doing... I play a round on the course I play at during down times in about 3 hrs (with a cart).. when it's busy 4 hourish.

3 hours by yourself or with a foursome?

#13 mesquite2

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:09 PM

4 hours is Ok, 41/2 is way too slow, in my opinion.

#14 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostSHIVAN, on 24 September 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Also, when I was at the Old Course, the folks around the yard indicated that a typical round should take something less than four hours.....was there any indication, by the staff, that this was still the case?

Yes - but I think this is their "ideal" which probably doesn't typically happen.

#15 boriqua'72

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

View Postrsj1360, on 24 September 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

View Postboriqua, on 24 September 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

There is a fine line...

I always hear guys talking only about how fast they played their round rather than how much fun they had... it always makes me scratch my head. They play golf with a video game mentality.

There is a happy medium between playing way too fast to the point where you don't actually appreciate what you're doing and taking the game way too serious to where your thinking about what you're trying to do way too long.

With me I just want to play with golfers who are aware... line your putts up in a subtle manner while others are putting or reading their putts.. take one look from behind preferably or if you're efficient about it take a look from in front also.. and play ready golf from the fairway to the tee.

But for me I have to enjoy and savor what I'm doing... I play a round on the course I play at during down times in about 3 hrs (with a cart).. when it's busy 4 hourish.

3 hours by yourself or with a foursome?

By myself... I edited my post... between 3 and 3.5 hours alone on a course that isn't that busy where the members play fast enough already.


#16 Pepperturbo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:12 PM

I am not going to roast someone that got X number of fantastic rounds with people that had similar manners of play.  Just wonder why you expect everyone to play golf by your definition of pace and fun?  

I can't tell you how often I've had to wait for guys that don't play the game the way I do, and I play the ball down, buy the rules and able to socialize within reason.  Lets start with yesterday.  The guy was all over the place, loosing balls left and right, then taking 2-4 around the green, while we watched and waited.  I have to tell ya, it's annoying, and we were not rushing.  He meandered and hunted so much, he wasted what time there was to socialize.  Oh, I don't mind helping someone find a ball now and again, but it's not what I play golf for... especially when walking and those hunting for balls are riding in a cart.  Glad you had a great trip though.  We're heading over to Scotland in the near future.

Edited by Pepperturbo, 24 September 2012 - 01:14 PM.

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#17 drewspin

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:14 PM

The real trick is to enjoy the game whether the round is played in 3 hours or 6 hours.

#18 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:15 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 24 September 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I am not going to roast someone that got X number of fantastic rounds with people that had similar manners of play.  Just wonder why you expect everyone to play golf by your definition of pace and fun?  

I can't tell you how often I've had to wait for guys that don't play the game the way I do, and I play the ball down, buy the rules and able to socialize within reason.  Lets start with yesterday.  The guy was all over the place, loosing balls left and right, then taking 2-4 around the green, while we watched and waited.  I have to tell ya, it's annoying, and we were not rushing.  He meandered and hunted so much, he wasted what time there was to socialize.  Oh, I don't mind helping someone find a ball now and again, but it's not what I play golf for... especially when walking and those hunting for balls are riding in a cart.  Glad you had a great trip though.  We're heading over to Scotland in the near future.

Have a great time. If you haven't been before - the links courses are freaking awesome!

Edited by rsj1360, 24 September 2012 - 01:17 PM.


#19 J5isalive

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:23 PM

3 hour = Great pace of play!
3.5 hours = Perfect Amount of time
4 Hours = Ok, golf was fine today
4:05= Where the heck is the marshall?
4:15= Unbelievable, slowest round ever.
4:30= Lashings for everyone on the course.

#20 Broiler

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:35 PM

View Postmesquite2, on 24 September 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

4 hours is Ok, 41/2 is way too slow, in my opinion.
An extra one minute and fourty five seconds per hole is too slow? I'll give you that 5 hours is too slow, but 4.5 hours is completely reasonable and for a foursome is actually only 15 minutes off of what I consider to be the perfect pace.


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#21 golfingchuck

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:36 PM

I don't think there should be a "time limit" to a round of golf! The pace is set by the people playing. If it takes 5 hours then it takes 5 hours. If the course is busy then it will be a slow day, if wide open no reason you cant get around in a decent time.

I played in a 2 man scramble yesterday and my playing partner shots around 100-105 when we play stroke play and we finished in less than 5 hours. Yes its frustrating looking for you playing partners balls in the knee high rough on almost every hole or have to wait on the green for him to 3 chip and 3 putt but it is what it is.

Just chill get your mind in the right spot and deal with it
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#22 Dire Wolf

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

It's all about perception.  If you're in good company, or playing well, 4-5 hours can go by quickly and seem fun.  If you're with jerks, or the course is bad, or you're not playing well, that same 4-5 hours can seem like slow torture.

The gist of the pace of play guidelines in the Rules is to not hold other players up.  There is nothing in there about playing too fast.  So if speed preferences differ, find an equitable way to solve them.

The Old Course must not have been so busy that the OP couldn't have broken off from that group if he'd wished, if that group was tearing it up at 3.5hrs on foot as a foursome while "dragging" someone with them.  So why not fall back and let the threesome play on?

#23 Pepperturbo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:51 PM

View Postrsj1360, on 24 September 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 24 September 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I am not going to roast someone that got X number of fantastic rounds with people that had similar manners of play.  Just wonder why you expect everyone to play golf by your definition of pace and fun?  

I can't tell you how often I've had to wait for guys that don't play the game the way I do, and I play the ball down, buy the rules and able to socialize within reason.  Lets start with yesterday.  The guy was all over the place, loosing balls left and right, then taking 2-4 around the green, while we watched and waited.  I have to tell ya, it's annoying, and we were not rushing.  He meandered and hunted so much, he wasted what time there was to socialize.  Oh, I don't mind helping someone find a ball now and again, but it's not what I play golf for... especially when walking and those hunting for balls are riding in a cart.  Glad you had a great trip though.  We're heading over to Scotland in the near future.

Have a great time. If you haven't been before - the links courses are freaking awesome!

Did they have you using those little carpets to hit off, and was the field full?  Some buddies were there recently and every day was full, expect Park day.
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#24 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

View PostPepperturbo, on 24 September 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

View Postrsj1360, on 24 September 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostPepperturbo, on 24 September 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I am not going to roast someone that got X number of fantastic rounds with people that had similar manners of play.  Just wonder why you expect everyone to play golf by your definition of pace and fun?  

I can't tell you how often I've had to wait for guys that don't play the game the way I do, and I play the ball down, buy the rules and able to socialize within reason.  Lets start with yesterday.  The guy was all over the place, loosing balls left and right, then taking 2-4 around the green, while we watched and waited.  I have to tell ya, it's annoying, and we were not rushing.  He meandered and hunted so much, he wasted what time there was to socialize.  Oh, I don't mind helping someone find a ball now and again, but it's not what I play golf for... especially when walking and those hunting for balls are riding in a cart.  Glad you had a great trip though.  We're heading over to Scotland in the near future.

Have a great time. If you haven't been before - the links courses are freaking awesome!

Did they have you using those little carpets to hit off, and was the field full?  Some buddies were there recently and every day was full, expect Park day.

No no mats yet. I believe that doesn't start until wintertime - whenever that is considered there. And yes the field was full. When I arrived in St Andrews on Tuesday afternoon I checked in the Starter's hut and asked what time I should show up in the morning as a single - expecting him to say 6:00. To my surprised he said 3:00! Which I did and was #5 on the list. I teed off at 8:40. I believe that 25+ out of 30+ singles got on at some point. The Friday round I also got there at 3:00 and was #1 - and no one else showed up until after 4:30 I believe. So I guess every day is different. That day I teed off with the a-holes on the very first group at 7:00.

#25 KYMAR

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:15 PM

I think the issue is perspective. We could just as likely read

"went to Scotland for a golf trip with a couple buddies. We got to the Old Course and were assigned a single to complete our 4some. This guy just did not fit into our group very well. Constantly looking for his ball in the gorse, gave us looks like we should be 40 yards away from our shots looking for it too. The course wasn't very busy and we were moving right along but were certainly not rushing. I don't know, maybe he was just trying to enjoy the experience of the the old course but within just a few holes, the vibe he was giving off was not at all comfortable for any of us. We just started feeling like he wasn't approachable. I felt like he wanted to make friends and when we didn't respond, he sort of just shut it down. He just seemed unable to enjoy the round and it really felt like he was somehow blaming us for it. I guess i felt like he wanted us to make his experience a good one. I don't know if that was his mentality being a single on holiday or what but at some point we just kind of ignored him and tried to enjoy our round despite his moping attitude. He didn't seem like a bad guy, but seemed to want something from us and none of us knew what it was"

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#26 mwkbmw

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 24 September 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think the issue is perspective. We could just as likely read

"went to Scotland for a golf trip with a couple buddies. We got to the Old Course and were assigned a single to complete our 4some. This guy just did not fit into our group very well. Constantly looking for his ball in the gorse, gave us looks like we should be 40 yards away from our shots looking for it too. The course wasn't very busy and we were moving right along but were certainly not rushing. I don't know, maybe he was just trying to enjoy the experience of the the old course but within just a few holes, the vibe he was giving off was not at all comfortable for any of us. We just started feeling like he wasn't approachable. I felt like he wanted to make friends and when we didn't respond, he sort of just shut it down. He just seemed unable to enjoy the round and it really felt like he was somehow blaming us for it. I guess i felt like he wanted us to make his experience a good one. I don't know if that was his mentality being a single on holiday or what but at some point we just kind of ignored him and tried to enjoy our round despite his moping attitude. He didn't seem like a bad guy, but seemed to want something from us and none of us knew what it was"

Ouch...
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#27 rsj1360

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

View PostKYMAR, on 24 September 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think the issue is perspective. We could just as likely read

"went to Scotland for a golf trip with a couple buddies. We got to the Old Course and were assigned a single to complete our 4some. This guy just did not fit into our group very well. Constantly looking for his ball in the gorse, gave us looks like we should be 40 yards away from our shots looking for it too. The course wasn't very busy and we were moving right along but were certainly not rushing. I don't know, maybe he was just trying to enjoy the experience of the the old course but within just a few holes, the vibe he was giving off was not at all comfortable for any of us. We just started feeling like he wasn't approachable. I felt like he wanted to make friends and when we didn't respond, he sort of just shut it down. He just seemed unable to enjoy the round and it really felt like he was somehow blaming us for it. I guess i felt like he wanted us to make his experience a good one. I don't know if that was his mentality being a single on holiday or what but at some point we just kind of ignored him and tried to enjoy our round despite his moping attitude. He didn't seem like a bad guy, but seemed to want something from us and none of us knew what it was"

lol - oookaaay. You could read whatever you want into any story. But all I can say is that I had 14 great playing partners as well as eight great caddies in our groups for seven fun rounds. And one set of three arrogant a-holes for one round. (By the way, even one of the caddies remarked to me about how fast these guys were playing.) Also, I don't know who said the course was not busy ....

#28 Pepperturbo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:25 PM

Ouch +2
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#29 cb24

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:29 PM

i personally love rounds of golf that move along quickly and can fully enjoy it that way.  When I get a round knocked out in 2 hours i am very happy because it usually means i am moving forward at a good pace and probably pretty relaxed.

#30 KYMAR

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:30 PM

View Postrsj1360, on 24 September 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

View PostKYMAR, on 24 September 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

I think the issue is perspective. We could just as likely read

"went to Scotland for a golf trip with a couple buddies. We got to the Old Course and were assigned a single to complete our 4some. This guy just did not fit into our group very well. Constantly looking for his ball in the gorse, gave us looks like we should be 40 yards away from our shots looking for it too. The course wasn't very busy and we were moving right along but were certainly not rushing. I don't know, maybe he was just trying to enjoy the experience of the the old course but within just a few holes, the vibe he was giving off was not at all comfortable for any of us. We just started feeling like he wasn't approachable. I felt like he wanted to make friends and when we didn't respond, he sort of just shut it down. He just seemed unable to enjoy the round and it really felt like he was somehow blaming us for it. I guess i felt like he wanted us to make his experience a good one. I don't know if that was his mentality being a single on holiday or what but at some point we just kind of ignored him and tried to enjoy our round despite his moping attitude. He didn't seem like a bad guy, but seemed to want something from us and none of us knew what it was"

lol - oookaaay. You could read whatever you want into any story. But all I can say is that I had 14 great playing partners as well as eight great caddies in our groups for seven fun rounds. And one set of three arrogant a-holes for one round. (By the way, even one of the caddies remarked to me about how fast these guys were playing.) Also, I don't know who said the course was not busy ....

Well it is certainly implied. Which was it? It was super busy,or you played too fast? How can it be both?

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