[Uno]

Before anyone flames me for bringing this up, please read.

last night i was watching the Golf Channel and they were discussing The International. I believe it was Finchem who was being interviewed and it almost sounded like he was blaming Tiger not playing in enough events for the lack of sponsors for such events like the International.

He basically said that if Tiger isn't playing then its extremely difficult to get sponsors for the event. Apparently when Tiger IS playing the sponsors are great and ratings are super high, but if he isnt, then ratings aren't high enough to justify an event?

did anyone else see this interview? I may have interpreted it wrong but i THINK thats what he was getting at.

[ce_me_golf]

Uno, on Feb 9 2007, 02:50 PM, said:

Before anyone flames me for bringing this up, please read.

last night i was watching the Golf Channel and they were discussing The International. I believe it was Finchem who was being interviewed and it almost sounded like he was blaming Tiger not playing in enough events for the lack of sponsors for such events like the International.

He basically said that if Tiger isn't playing then its extremely difficult to get sponsors for the event. Apparently when Tiger IS playing the sponsors are great and ratings are super high, but if he isnt, then ratings aren't high enough to justify an event?

did anyone else see this interview? I may have interpreted it wrong but i THINK thats what he was getting at.

Why put the entire weight of the PGA Tour on Tigers shoulders? There are almost 200 guys that are eligible to play on the PGA Tour at any given time. You'd think they have more than one player with the game, style and charisma to attract fans.

The problems isn't Tiger it's the PGA Tour simply has a bunch of players who are great golfers but they just don't have a lot of charisma, an style. Now there are some young guys like Adam Scott, Sergio, Luke Donald, Trevor Immelman and Camillo that have the potential to be huge crowd draws but these guys need to win more to create more of a buzz.

[Baller]

What he said. There are other great players on the PGA tour including the Europeans that play here. Fincham should be ashamed of himself.

[LyleG]

IMO Finchem should be fired for his comments yesterday. They are totally irresponsible if inaccurate and if true prove he hasnt done his job. What a joke.

[dtwainright]

I thought I heard something to the fact that Finchman wouldn't return phone calls and the sponsor eventually pulled the plug.

[Jamboy72]

As the commissioner of the PGA tour, Tim Finchem is a joke - He is the one ultimately responsible for the International losing its sponsor and now losing the ability to exist as a tournament - His comments regarding Tiger show his ineptitude to produce a quality product week in and week out - If the sucess/failure of an event rests on the proverbial shoulders of ONE player - then guess what Mr. Finchem - the overall product ain't that good!

No one is doubting that people want to see Tiger play - but there are so many other great players on the tour and until Finchem can find a way to succesfully market the entire tour - and it might mean saying YES when a tourney has a 20 million dollar sponsor lined up - then we are going to continue to witness these type of acts..

Shame on your Mr. Finchem..

[KDMullins]

Wait a second. I saw the interview, and Finchem did not blame Tiger for anything. He simply stated facts, and essentially corroborated what Jack Vickers said. That is, tournaments are having a hard time getting sponsors in events where Tiger doesn't play because TV ratings haven't been that great. Finchem actually took up for Tiger by saying that this is no different than when Nicklaus was playing 18 Tour events a year, that the tournaments without Tiger were still great, and the Tour purses were bigger and the money given to charity was greater than ever before. Did we see the same interview?

[BigMatt]

Its a valid point bro. Because Tiger only wants to play in certain places it can hurt other tournaments, particularly the ones without a sponsor like the International. No, its not Tiger responsibility to make tournaments happen, but because of his celebrity there is an effect on tournament attendance if he is not there.

[ce_me_golf]

BigMatt, on Feb 9 2007, 03:57 PM, said:

Its a valid point bro. Because Tiger only wants to play in certain places it can hurt other tournaments, particularly the ones without a sponsor like the International. No, its not Tiger responsibility to make tournaments happen, but because of his celebrity there is an effect on tournament attendance if he is not there.

Which just means that the PGA Tour needs to do a better job marketing more of it's players.


Why do you think that NASCAR is so popular? They have a exciting sport and they know how to market it. Not only does NASCAR market the sport is also effectively markets the drivers. The problem with golf is that it's become a victim of it's own snob appeal. Golf can be an exciting sport to watch but only if you appreciate and understand the game AND YOU HAVE PLAYERS WITH SOME CHARISMA AND PERSONALITY! Also golf is in desparate need of ways to reach out beyond it's current demographic to attract peoples interest to the game.

[AUDuffer]

KDMullins, on Feb 9 2007, 04:45 PM, said:

Wait a second. I saw the interview, and Finchem did not blame Tiger for anything. He simply stated facts, and essentially corroborated what Jack Vickers said. That is, tournaments are having a hard time getting sponsors in events where Tiger doesn't play because TV ratings haven't been that great. Finchem actually took up for Tiger by saying that this is no different than when Nicklaus was playing 18 Tour events a year, that the tournaments without Tiger were still great, and the Tour purses were bigger and the money given to charity was greater than ever before. Did we see the same interview?

That's how I saw it. He said ratings are up from the past all across the board. However, the ratings are higher when Tiger plays, which is a fact.

[Johnny]

KDMullins, on Feb 9 2007, 01:45 PM, said:

Wait a second. I saw the interview, and Finchem did not blame Tiger for anything. He simply stated facts, and essentially corroborated what Jack Vickers said. That is, tournaments are having a hard time getting sponsors in events where Tiger doesn't play because TV ratings haven't been that great. Finchem actually took up for Tiger by saying that this is no different than when Nicklaus was playing 18 Tour events a year, that the tournaments without Tiger were still great, and the Tour purses were bigger and the money given to charity was greater than ever before. Did we see the same interview?

Exactly how I saw it as well..

[idiotbox]

NASCAR is a great example of marketing at its best. The only difference is that every driver is out there every week trying to make it on Sunday. Their sponsors dictate that.

[drew123]

ce_me_golf, on Feb 9 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

BigMatt, on Feb 9 2007, 03:57 PM, said:

Its a valid point bro. Because Tiger only wants to play in certain places it can hurt other tournaments, particularly the ones without a sponsor like the International. No, its not Tiger responsibility to make tournaments happen, but because of his celebrity there is an effect on tournament attendance if he is not there.

Which just means that the PGA Tour needs to do a better job marketing more of it's players.


Why do you think that NASCAR is so popular? They have a exciting sport and they know how to market it. Not only does NASCAR market the sport is also effectively markets the drivers. The problem with golf is that it's become a victim of it's own snob appeal. Golf can be an exciting sport to watch but only if you appreciate and understand the game AND YOU HAVE PLAYERS WITH SOME CHARISMA AND PERSONALITY! Also golf is in desparate need of ways to reach out beyond it's current demographic to attract peoples interest to the game.

that's not a fair comparsion because no one in nascar dominates like Tiger.

[golfernut78]

it wasn't finchman who made the comment but president of castle pines. finchman went out and said that week in and week out there are strong fields, but tiger's presence is a boost.

[skinkman]

Quote

Why put the entire weight of the PGA Tour on Tigers shoulders? There are almost 200 guys that are eligible to play on the PGA Tour at any given time. You'd think they have more than one player with the game, style and charisma to attract fans.

well said..some very wise posts here. Impressed

[3puttbogey]

Uno, on Feb 9 2007, 03:50 PM, said:

Before anyone flames me for bringing this up, please read.

last night i was watching the Golf Channel and they were discussing The International. I believe it was Finchem who was being interviewed and it almost sounded like he was blaming Tiger not playing in enough events for the lack of sponsors for such events like the International.

He basically said that if Tiger isn't playing then its extremely difficult to get sponsors for the event. Apparently when Tiger IS playing the sponsors are great and ratings are super high, but if he isnt, then ratings aren't high enough to justify an event?

did anyone else see this interview? I may have interpreted it wrong but i THINK thats what he was getting at.

Clearly he was not blaming Tiger. He said that the tour is fine. This is "atypical." He said its just like when Nicklaus played and to a lesser extent Watson. He said when Tiger plays there is a spike in ratings but that the baseline ratings are fine. Tiger plays about the same amount as Jackdid.

[jimbonecrusher]

Actually there are people who dominate in NASCAR. Do you remember when Ryan Newman won 11 races the last year before the chase was started? The other dominant driver is Jimmie Johnson. There is more excitement in racing, than golf. When was the last time that you saw two golfers started duking it out in the scorers tent? The problem is with Tim Finchem and not Tiger. Tim needs to learn how to market the tour better.

[daihori]

I don't know whether someone else could sell the tour better. I think Finchem is a talented person. I feel the real problem is that, just like someone else has said above, there aren't a lot of players who could attract general public. When I went to Bridgestone Invitational last year to follow Ernie Els on Thursday, I was very surprised to see that about only 15 people including myself were following him. I could often be within a few yards of him. I could even touch his bag when his caddy was smoking. On the other hand, Tiger had 3-4 layers of people following him. As a golf fan, honestly, I can now careless what Tiger does because I've followed him a couple of times. That's enough. I would like to see a lot of players in depth. Whenever I go to the tournaments, it's so obvious that there are so many players with no one following them. With a bunch of players that people don't even care about at all, I don't think there is much that Finchem could do. The Tour needs a lot of stronger players, in my opinion.

[Eec55]

bring back dean beaman! not a fan of finchem. he is so stiff ! need young blood with more personality and wit and marketing sav vy!

[pitch]

And perhaps Tiger should start supporting the events. Both Tiger and Phil should have their a**es kicked for skipping the Tour Championship and the Mercedes Championship.
Spoiled brats!!!!!

[przero]

What Finchem said is true. It is neither his or Tiger's fault, but it's true! The media is caught up in "Tigermania" and golf is secondary. The sponsors think ,no one watches if Tiger is not in the field, so they don't look to underwrite events if they KNOW Tiger is out. And the "NEW" fan doesn't watch if Tiger is out, so the ratings drop back to where they were in the pre-Tiger days. Most of my friends are tired of the hoopla around Tiger, so they don't watch. Like it not Tiger has the responsibility to keep the Tour propped up. And while he is by far the greatest player of his time, and maybe any other, he is not good for the game. He's Arnie. He's only gonna play the majors, the big appearance fee events (Euro/Asia) and the events he can win on this tour (hence his not playing at Riviera - and that in itself makes Nelson's eleven even more spectacular).
Now will he spread himself around to let the fans all over the country see him play in person and in turn help out the tour, I doubt it. But if he did it would sure boost the ratings on all fronts.
I think EVERY player should have to play EVERY tournament in a five year period. The fans deserve it.
Oh, dominate in NASCAR---- #3!

[pmas93]

I think the PGA needs a policy like the LPGA where every player has to play every even at least once in 3 years??? I think it is 3, may be 5, but you get the point.

Probably gonna regret even mentioning this, but here goes.

While people are saying Finchem needs to do things to market other players and the tour, etc. Isn't that what doing things like letting Annika and Wie play in the tour events is doing. The attendance, TV ratings, merchandise sales, everything is up at every event that one of those two has played in. NOT THAT I AM A FAN OF IT. Just pointing out the facts.

This year at the Tour Championship, I saw something I thought I would never see in my life, Merchandise, all of it, every item in the tent, was marked down 50% or 75%. When I asked one of the clerks working why this was, he said when Phil and Tiger don't show up everything including the merchandise is down, not a little, but a ton. We are doing anything we can to move this stuff because we just haven't sold stuff.

In Georgia, we used to have an event called the Buick Challenge at Callaway Gardens. Even though it was Tigers Main sponsor, he never played it and after a few years of him not playing it, it went under.

It has been proven time and again, if Tiger shows, the people show. If he doesn't the people don't!

[PlayerJason]

I think the majority of the blame lies with the players themselves. Take the top 50, even 100 players and for all intents and purposes, they are at the same level of play. There is probably one stroke that seperates #1 from #50, so any one of them can win on any given weekend (I've said it before and I'll say it again, TW is *not* the golf deity that some make him out to be). Sure he hits the ball amazingly well, but where he dominates is the mental game. As a whole, he has convinced the other players that they don't have a chance when he steps on the course.

Certainly I think we all would love to have that effect on our competitors, but Tiger has done it and done it well. Just watch an interview with any given pro when he is asked about Tiger entering X Invitational/Open/Classic this coming weekend and their tone and demeanor is already screaming their defeat. He's got them beat before the tournament even starts!! And that is what bothers me about most PGA pros; they don't have the *go get 'em* to try and beat TW; to give him a run for his money. Any of them CAN do it but none of them do. That's the crux of the issue.

It's not surprising that sponsors want the biggest draw to play their tourny since it's all about money, but the only way the tour will improve is if the players as a whole make it happen.

Tiger does not have the responsibility to keep the tour propped up. ALL of the players have the responsibility and only they control it. As soon as more players start knocking on #1's door and actually try to win instead of just making the cut and getting a check, interest levels will rise.

NASCAR is so popular because there are at least 10-12 drivers that can win on any Sunday AND THE DRIVERS KNOW IT.

Tour pros have to get over the seemingly mental stranglehold they think TW has on them and just go for it!

Finchem may be a tool, but the players control the public's perception and popularity of the tour.

[HeadonaStick]

pitch, on Feb 9 2007, 07:18 PM, said:

And perhaps Tiger should start supporting the events. Both Tiger and Phil should have their a**es kicked for skipping the Tour Championship and the Mercedes Championship.
Spoiled brats!!!!!

Why?

Perhaps the Tour should make the tournaments more attractive. It isn't Tiger or Phil's responsability to save the tour. Thay are just two players, and if that is all the tour has to offer then the tour is in big trouble.

Did you ever stop to think it is the Tour's fault for relying on Tiger and over hyping tournaments he plays in because he is playing?

[SCHMEGGA]

Just my 2 cents:

Tiger is a major draw for many reasons. All of which are easy to see and I don't feel I need to expand on. People want to see the big stars. It really is that simple. When was the last time you got excited about the Slam Dunk contest? Who won it last year? I bet 9/10 people here couldn't tell me, even though I bet 6/10 of you are NBA fans. (Nate Robinson BTW. Who?) Since Jordan and all the other greats started dissing the event, it has become a non-event.

I really think that there are are some up-and-comers that have been mentioned above that could help to fire-up some of the events that Tiger opts-out of. But as stated, until they begin to win consistently they will not be the big draw at an event. Tiger is a winner first and foremost. If he wasn't, then he would just be a caublanasian tour player.

I can't say that I am a big Finchem fan, but golf is a hard game to sale to the masses, unlike NASCAR. Golf is EXPENSIVE!!! Between needing balls, 6+ balls per round for the avg. duffer ($10) + bucket balls ($5) + Green Fee ($30) + Cart (a duffer walk? Yeah right!) ($10)=$55 for a single round of golf, and that is on the conservative side. That's not even mentioning the equipment upkeep! NASCAR on the other hand= Beer ($15) + Chips ($5)= $20 to sit on the couch and watch. They don't even have to drive!

There is no way to properly compare golf to other sports that you can go to and watch for 3 hours of your time, when it takes 4 days to watch a golf event. Try comparing the expenses to attend a live event. Whoa!

Sure I would love to see Tiger play 35 events a year, but it ain't gonna happen. Especially now that he has a little one on the way. The PGA is by no means whatsoever hurting for revenue. I was a big fan of the International. I loved the aggressive play and anything-could-happen-at-any-moment feeling. There is more golf on now then there ever has been, and I still can't get enough of it. Thus, the long hours spent on this forum with you other junkies! Will I miss the International? Sure. Is it a big deal? Probably not. If anything it should make a stronger field in another event.

Long live GOLF! With or without El Tigre! But, hopefully with.

[gregflat9]

I didn't see the interview... that said Finchem was only stating the facts. Without Tiger who dials in?

What Finchem didn't do was market his product correctly... he should have had a skins or mixed event and/or priced the sponsorship so that sponsors would have supported the event.

To tacitly admit to having a crap product to sell cos no Tiger is giving up...

[northeastgolfer]

SCHMEGGA, on Feb 9 2007, 11:13 PM, said:

I can't say that I am a big Finchem fan, but golf is a hard game to sale to the masses, unlike NASCAR. Golf is EXPENSIVE!!! Between needing balls, 6+ balls per round for the avg. duffer ($10) + bucket balls ($5) + Green Fee ($30) + Cart (a duffer walk? Yeah right!) ($10)=$55 for a single round of golf, and that is on the conservative side. That's not even mentioning the equipment upkeep! NASCAR on the other hand= Beer ($15) + Chips ($5)= $20 to sit on the couch and watch. They don't even have to drive!

Not to get too far off the topic...but yes IMO NASCAR does do a great job of marketing and I think the PGA does a good job of marketing too BUT... you will find the majority of the drivers at most events unlike the PGA which makes it harder. It is what it is...PGA Tour players are independent contractors and can do what they want just as long as they play the minumun amount of events. Until this changes you will still not see Phil and Tiger and whomever at events that for the good of the Tour they should be at. This makes marketing to sponsors sooooo tough because there is NO guarantee.

I personally think NASCAR fans and golf fans are a different breed for one glaring reason. Us golf fans can watch golf on tv or go to an event just like NASCAR fans..but WE actually go and get to play the game. We cannot just go out there jump in a race car and jump on a track and race, as much as we pretend sometimes I dont know where I am going with that one so I will leave it open to discuss lol

[thenextnumber1]

I wont be suprised if tiger starts playing more in europe than in US. It definatly seems more fun to play on european tour than on US Tour.

I think ive got the best idea ever, PGA Tour should have the odd 18 hole tournament! 156 player field like normal but just 18 holes, now I think that would be pretty exiting myself, all the players would be trying to shoot as low as possible! and going after eachother!

[gregflat9]

I'd love to see Tiger on the European Tour.

However it will NEVER happen. I hope these are famous last words...

And if he did I wonder how many other pros would follow him across?

[thenextnumber1]

Not many! The food portions are big enough here in europe!

[dispatch096]

i think the idea for an 18 hole event is awesome. that would be alot of fun to watch.

[thenextnumber1]

MY IDEA! :-) :-) :-) :-)!